Would you want incentives to buy Australian?

[Carby]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I generally do not support handouts. I certainly am against tariffs and any other protectionism policies.

If car makers want incentives, then I believe they should have to work for it. Build cars people want, innovate more, basically work for the sale not just rely on blind patriotism.
I buy whatever suits my budget and I enjoy driving, I don't care where it is made.

Oh yeah - gotta love the idealism here (not Clover Moore are you?) Lets take this path and become a larger Fiji -a service and Holiday destination industry. If the might of Japan can have protectionism policies why can't we?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Carby

Oh yeah - gotta love the idealism here (not Clover Moore are you?) Lets take this path and become a larger Fiji -a service and Holiday destination industry. If the might of Japan can have protectionism policies why can't we?

What policy is that (remember they have no import tariffs)?

[vztrt]

I agree with the government supporting the Car makers with grants to innovate, like this.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/72559/se...mation-scheme/

Senator Kim Carr pushes Automotive Transformation Scheme
By Brett Davis | July 1st, 2010

Registrations opened today for the government’s $3.4 billion Automotive Transformation Scheme (ATS), which aims to lift innovation in the motor vehicle industry by supporting investment in skills and research and development.

Innovation Minister Senator Kim Carr today urged Australia’s innovative automotive businesses to access the assistance measures on offer.

“The ATS is the key element of the Australian government’s $6 billion New Car Plan for a Greener Future,” Senator Carr said.

“There are more than 200,000 jobs reliant on the automotive sector. Through the ATS, the Gillard government is supporting investment and innovation to enable the sector to meet the challenges of the 21st century.”

The ATS replaces the Automotive Competitiveness and Investment Scheme (ACIS) and will run from January 1, 2011, until December 31, 2020 and include:

* capped assistance of $1.5 billion from 2011 to 2015;
* capped assistance of $1 billion from 2016 to 2020; and
* uncapped assistance estimated at $847 million

Senator Carr said current participants in the ACIS will have a streamlined application process and be able to apply for registration under the ATS from today.

“ATS is a partnership between government and industry with co-investment at its core. Businesses accessing the ATS will need to report progress in achieving economic and environmental sustainability, and developing a more skilled workforce,” Senator Carr said.

“AusIndustry – the government’s principal business program delivery division – will be presenting information seminars to the sector. This includes motor vehicle producers; automotive component producers, automotive machine tool and automotive tooling producers, and automotive service providers.”

Applications for registration must be lodged with AusIndustry before January 1 of the calendar year for which registration is sought.

For further information on the scheme, visit www.ausindustry.gov.au

[Ducati888]

Originally Posted by Carby

Oh yeah - gotta love the idealism here (not Clover Moore are you?) Lets take this path and become a larger Fiji -a service and Holiday destination industry. If the might of Japan can have protectionism policies why can't we?

Well we did have a political coup de tat last week, albeit not a violent one, but that alone makes us closer to Fiji than I would like

[Ducati888]

Originally Posted by Brazen

They are a fantastic car, they have ralliart brakes and beautiful 5 speed auto. Fantastic build and paint quality on them too. The grip from them is unreal - constant AWD plus rear LSD. Would put most SUVs to shame in the slippery stuff. I honestly would of got one if it came in wagon.

Cool. It's given me 90K km of trouble free motoring that's for sure and it handles a wet off camber roundabout quite well too under gas.

Just needs about 50 more KW, and 100NM more torque, and it would be a beast (ugly, but a beast none the less)

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Carby

Oh yeah - gotta love the idealism here (not Clover Moore are you?) Lets take this path and become a larger Fiji -a service and Holiday destination industry. If the might of Japan can have protectionism policies why can't we?

ahhhh...ok....overreaction much?
Japan don't have car tariffs, they were removed around 1978.

[mik]

half the problem is that the playing field is not fair, even countries without tariffs get concessions in one form or another that help out their manufactureing, some countries get better deals just by haveing a huge population and greater buying power in the market, personally i think those that don`t want to support our manufacturing should`nt mind paying a few buks extra to support another nations industry............yes i`m a patriotic bugger

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by mik

half the problem is that the playing field is not fair, even countries without tariffs get concessions in one form or another that help out their manufacturing, some countries get better deals just by haveing a huge population and greater buying power in the market, personally i think those that don`t want to support our manufacturing should`nt mind paying a few buks extra to support another nations industry............yes i`m a patriotic bugger

But our manufacturing does get concessions in the form of grants for R&D were most of the money goes in the end.

[ltd]

Then again, as has been found recently is that our local manufacturing is not being supported by local/state and federal governments as they push to have more foreign cars. This does not occur in many other countries.
On approach to LAX every time I go we fly over a huge holding yard with spew green pick ups; GM pickups all for the department of interior (think NPWS). Now, who owns GM? That's right, the government. This is in effect its own tarriff.

[Boosh Brus]

Excuse my ignorance. I always thought there was some kind of financial incentive to buy Australian. Could someone explain this for me. (genuine question):

2010 Jaguar XF V8 which I guess would be the G6E of Jaguar

Costs in US - $63905 AUD ($53700 USD) excluding taxes

In UK - $76847 AUD (£42621 GBP) excluding taxes

In AUS $154000 on the road so maybe $121,000 AUD excluding taxes???

I doubt there is much difference between the UK and the AU model but there is a $45,000 difference in price (unless my AUS tax price is way off) and a $57000 difference compared to the US model. Surely it doesn't cost $45000 to ship a car to Aus so where is the rest of the money going? Dealer/company profit?

[SB076]

Originally Posted by Boosh Brus

Excuse my ignorance. I always thought there was some kind of financial incentive to buy Australian. Could someone explain this for me. (genuine question):

2010 Jaguar XF V8 which I guess would be the G6E of Jaguar

Costs in US - $63905 AUD ($53700 USD) excluding taxes

In UK - $76847 AUD (£42621 GBP) excluding taxes

In AUS $154000 on the road so maybe $121,000 AUD excluding taxes???

I doubt there is much difference between the UK and the AU model but there is a $45,000 difference in price (unless my AUS tax price is way off) and a $57000 difference compared to the US model. Surely it doesn't cost $45000 to ship a car to Aus so where is the rest of the money going? Dealer/company profit?

Hmm not sure - 5% tariff and LCT would be added to the price however that's it as far as I know and that doesnt make the difference you have quoted above - suggest maybe shipping costs would be a lot higher from the UK compared to Asia. Maybe the cars destined for Oz are optioned up better? Plus the local Jaguar arm would have forward cover to cover currency fluctions and the Australain market isnt that big (no discounts)

Not all manufacturing gets subsidies from the government (typcially just the larger firms, as the government tries to protect the bulk of jobs) Most SME's lack the resources to properly track R&D and subsequently cant claim

[388cube_edxr8]

Originally Posted by ltd

Let's not forget though that there is a perception out there that Australian made is of inferior quality, when infact it is often the opposite. These people automatically dismiss the local stuff because of something they heard, but don't have the temerity to check it out for themselves.
There is a word to describe those people who write something off on the basis of supposition..... What's the word for it again...... Oh yeah; bastards.

I remember when I bought my beloved G6 turbo, driving it home from the dealership and then to Newcastle the next day, I was so proud of being an aussie and equally just as proud that guys and girls in Victoria came up with this brilliant, brilliant car. Sort of gave me hope for the country that we were moving forward. Sounds parochial I know, but Ford is truly a winner in the bang for the buck stakes.

What the hell is parochial? Have you been reading a thesaurus?

[castellan]

Why do we support these countries that treat there workers the way they do. and their environmental abuse.

We would not get away with it hear, so why should they!
Not fair prickly pear.

I for one feel ashamed to buy anything from such schmucks. their type should be taxed more.

It's just capitalism gone mad. "no morals". and it will come back to bite us.

[Redrum]

The popular vote is right where I thought it would be.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by castellan

Why do we support these countries that treat there workers the way they do.

How much exactly are they meant to get paid? The cost of living is much lower over there then it is here. The workers normally get paid very well when you compare the wages.

Koreans have the same wage as an Aussie worker, its the extra's that come along with a worker (if we are talking about OZ) where it becomes cheaper.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Boosh Brus

Excuse my ignorance. I always thought there was some kind of financial incentive to buy Australian. Could someone explain this for me. (genuine question):

2010 Jaguar XF V8 which I guess would be the G6E of Jaguar

Costs in US - $63905 AUD ($53700 USD) excluding taxes

In UK - $76847 AUD (£42621 GBP) excluding taxes

In AUS $154000 on the road so maybe $121,000 AUD excluding taxes???

I doubt there is much difference between the UK and the AU model but there is a $45,000 difference in price (unless my AUS tax price is way off) and a $57000 difference compared to the US model. Surely it doesn't cost $45000 to ship a car to Aus so where is the rest of the money going? Dealer/company profit?

The higher prices we're charged for cars, and everything else for that matter, is partly the result of us living on an island, but mostly the fact that we have such a small population.

In the case of cars, a company cant just ship a car over and sell it. The cost of the car needs to cover the whole operation - dealer & service networks and their technical support, spare parts inventory, local marketing, local compliance, distribution, the list goes on. In the US and UK those costs are spread over significantly more sales, which in turn brings the price there down.

[Carby]

Originally Posted by vztrt

What policy is that (remember they have no import tariffs)?

Oh Really? Try 50 % on Beef, Yen 402/kg on Rice -they have plenty of tariffs.

They are quite smart - natural materials like ore cotton and wool come in free too, but if those commodities come processed like yarns of cotton they cop a tariff.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by castellan

Why do we support these countries that treat there workers the way they do.

Don't get overseas too often? In most cases it relative to the cost of living in these parts of the world.

Originally Posted by castellan

I for one feel ashamed to buy anything from such schmucks. their type should be taxed more.

Why do you feel ashamed? You just said above you felt sorry for their workers? What about the millions here who rely on importation to hack out a living? Tariffs or taxes are a balancing act ..... too much one sided and can jeopardize your exports. China buys crap loads from us ...... tax them to much and they will just tax back.

Originally Posted by castellan

It's just capitalism gone mad. "no morals". and it will come back to bite us.

China is a communist country .... Australia is the capitalist ..... I don't understand what you are saying? Australia is bad because of capitalism?

I will buy Australian for a few reasons ....

1. If it is a quality I require for the price ....... actually thats about it!

If there is a better product I will buy it, even if it is slightly more expensive ..... where it is made usually doesn't come into it. I drive Fords because of the reason above. If an Australian product wants to woo me, then it only has to meet the above conditions.

Imagine what the cost of a locally produced car would be if every piece was made locally ...... there would be outrage if an XT Falcon was $85,000 when the rest of the world can buy an XF jag for less. Good bye car industry and all the other associated industries with it.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Don't get overseas too often? In most cases it relative to the cost of living in these parts of the world. (In some ways yes but dream on. it's really exploitation.)


Why do you feel ashamed? You just said above you felt sorry for their workers? What about the millions here who rely on importation to hack out a living? (That out of context with what i am on about.)

Tariffs or taxes are a balancing act ..... too much one sided and can jeopardize your exports. China buys crap loads from us ...... tax them to much and they will just tax back. (True.)


China is a communist country .... Australia is the capitalist ..... I don't understand what you are saying? Australia is bad because of capitalism? (No China is a communist capitalist country now. capitalism is only a system. the problem is when capitalism is worshiped and that is called an idolatry.
We are suppose to have a christian democratic capitalist system. so it's based on morals. capitalism on it's own is just madness.)


I will buy Australian for a few reasons ....

1. If it is a quality I require for the price ....... actually thats about it!

If there is a better product I will buy it, even if it is slightly more expensive ..... where it is made usually doesn't come into it. I drive Fords because of the reason above. If an Australian product wants to woo me, then it only has to meet the above conditions. (So environment does not come into it or the conditions of the workers at all.)

Imagine what the cost of a locally produced car would be if every piece was made locally ...... there would be outrage if an XT Falcon was $85,000 when the rest of the world can buy an XF jag for less. Good bye car industry and all the other associated industries with it.

How the hell do you think we can compete with them. this country has no hope. we will have to drop our dollar and get rid of all the rights the unions have worked for. we will go broke and end up becoming a communist country as well.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

China buys crap loads from us ...... tax them to much and they will just tax back.

This is one thing people don't realise. Asia has made Australia a much more wealth country. China is our biggest trading partner and were one of the main reasons Australia got through the GFC.

There's nothing wrong with buying Australian (I always try and will pay more if I believe the quality is there) but taxing imports is not the way.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by castellan

How the hell do you think we can compete with them. this country has no hope. we will have to drop our dollar and get rid of all the rights the unions have worked for. we will go broke and end up becoming a communist country as well.

Of course we can compete ....... its about being smart about what we produce and how it is produced. There has always been the cheaper countries producing cheaper products and there will always be countries that produce high end product. This is all not new to how the world works since the days of import and export.

Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW, Bentley, Jaguar, Fiat, Aston Martin, Rover ..... etc are competing against the Chinese? Go to China and count how many Audi's and VW's are driving about. The Germans can sell A8's to the Chinese ..... but its all too hard for Australia? Don't think so.

The problem is some throw their hands up in the air and say its all too hard while others just get on with doing something better than their opposition. I think the problem is that some just have there hand out saying "Give me money ... rebate ... handout ....... as an incentive" The incentive should be in how good or enjoyable the end product is rather than how much it cost. This fact can be forgotten quickly if the enjoyment is still there.

I compete with 100% Chinese imports in what I do ...... and so far have survived. I do not compete on price alone. I do it on quality but still have to be reasonable.

No way no are we stuffed. Far from it. Just some have already given up thinking they are better than others.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Of course we can compete ....... its about being smart about what we produce and how it is produced. There has always been the cheaper countries producing cheaper products and there will always be countries that produce high end product. This is all not new to how the world works since the days of import and export.

Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW, Bentley, Jaguar, Fiat, Aston Martin, Rover ..... etc are competing against the Chinese? Go to China and count how many Audi's and VW's are driving about. The Germans can sell A8's to the Chinese ..... but its all too hard for Australia? Don't think so.

The problem is some throw their hands up in the air and say its all too hard while others just get on with doing something better than their opposition. I think the problem is that some just have there hand out saying "Give me money ... rebate ... handout ....... as an incentive" The incentive should be in how good or enjoyable the end product is rather than how much it cost. This fact can be forgotten quickly if the enjoyment is still there.

I compete with 100% Chinese imports in what I do ...... and so far have survived. I do not compete on price alone. I do it on quality but still have to be reasonable.

No way no are we stuffed. Far from it. Just some have already given up thinking they are better than others.

Good post.

[Auturbo6]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Of course we can compete ....... its about being smart about what we produce and how it is produced. There has always been the cheaper countries producing cheaper products and there will always be countries that produce high end product. This is all not new to how the world works since the days of import and export.

Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW, Bentley, Jaguar, Fiat, Aston Martin, Rover ..... etc are competing against the Chinese? Go to China and count how many Audi's and VW's are driving about. The Germans can sell A8's to the Chinese ..... but its all too hard for Australia? Don't think so.

The problem is some throw their hands up in the air and say its all too hard while others just get on with doing something better than their opposition. I think the problem is that some just have there hand out saying "Give me money ... rebate ... handout ....... as an incentive" The incentive should be in how good or enjoyable the end product is rather than how much it cost. This fact can be forgotten quickly if the enjoyment is still there.

I compete with 100% Chinese imports in what I do ...... and so far have survived. I do not compete on price alone. I do it on quality but still have to be reasonable.

No way no are we stuffed. Far from it. Just some have already given up thinking they are better than others.

U can't compare upper class euro cars to aussie or american cars, their just in a different league........ Quality compared to she'll be right mate!

[tezxr8man]

Is that like our apple farmers going broke because the federal government is getting imported apples from china now.How the hell is our country supposed to stop relying on the big mining companies raping OUR land and country for little reward and have something else to fall back on if we don't start looking at our manifacturing industry??? we don't need to rely on other countries its just easier to do that way and make a quick buck.
Even the police aren't driving aus made cars any more i think i'll spew blood if i see another Lancer painted in police colours

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Of course we can compete ....... its about being smart about what we produce and how it is produced. There has always been the cheaper countries producing cheaper products and there will always be countries that produce high end product. This is all not new to how the world works since the days of import and export.

Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW, Bentley, Jaguar, Fiat, Aston Martin, Rover ..... etc are competing against the Chinese? Go to China and count how many Audi's and VW's are driving about. The Germans can sell A8's to the Chinese ..... but its all too hard for Australia? Don't think so.

The problem is some throw their hands up in the air and say its all too hard while others just get on with doing something better than their opposition. I think the problem is that some just have there hand out saying "Give me money ... rebate ... handout ....... as an incentive" The incentive should be in how good or enjoyable the end product is rather than how much it cost. This fact can be forgotten quickly if the enjoyment is still there.

I compete with 100% Chinese imports in what I do ...... and so far have survived. I do not compete on price alone. I do it on quality but still have to be reasonable.

No way no are we stuffed. Far from it. Just some have already given up thinking they are better than others.

Who is the "They" are better then others.
Well we do sell statesmans to China.
But the people who actually do throw their hands up in the air, can't compete in reality do they.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by vztrt

This is one thing people don't realise. Asia has made Australia a much more wealth country. China is our biggest trading partner and were one of the main reasons Australia got through the GFC.

There's nothing wrong with buying Australian (I always try and will pay more if I believe the quality is there) but taxing imports is not the way.

I think blind Freddy knows that.

[landau460]

Yes will where do we go from here.
Get back to work and support australians as much as where each able to.
I know i do my little part.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Boosh Brus

Excuse my ignorance. I always thought there was some kind of financial incentive to buy Australian. Could someone explain this for me. (genuine question):

2010 Jaguar XF V8 which I guess would be the G6E of Jaguar

Costs in US - $63905 AUD ($53700 USD) excluding taxes

In UK - $76847 AUD (£42621 GBP) excluding taxes

In AUS $154000 on the road so maybe $121,000 AUD excluding taxes???

I doubt there is much difference between the UK and the AU model but there is a $45,000 difference in price (unless my AUS tax price is way off) and a $57000 difference compared to the US model. Surely it doesn't cost $45000 to ship a car to Aus so where is the rest of the money going? Dealer/company profit?

Here's a closer to home example:
US prices for Ford cars converted to AUD,

Fiesta: $13,320 AUD$15,671
Focus : $16,290 AUD$19,165
Fusion: $19,695 AUD$23,171
Taurus : $25,170 AUD$29,612
Ranger: $17,820 AUD$20,965
Escape: $21,020 AUD$24,729

You can see that while Fiesta, Focus and Ranger are pretty close,
cars like Fusion and Taurus, Escape are much cheaper over there
so could be why Mondeo and Falcon don't sell so well over here.

[DRU842]

The protections against 'dumping' (that were bought up in earlier posts) are in place, they are just rarely enforced and never as aggressively as our major trading partners.
Issues around local content are very complex i.e. should advertising count, compliance costs etc?
We have 'natural' trade barriers with our remoteness contributing to high freight costs & quarentine compliance.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by castellan

Who is the "They" are better then others.
Well we do sell statesmans to China.
But the people who actually do throw their hands up in the air, can't compete in reality do they.

They as in china. The market for a better product not based just on price alone is massive. Make a better car and demand a higher competitive price and don't compete just on price. There will always be a market for both and people shouldn't become fixated on just one part of the market