dev 5 in LOXXR6 AU. - Page 3

loxxr6 · 04-02-2005, 10:57 PM

*rips hair out*

Tomorrow. I couldn't arrange to get out in time to get it. I'm getting the evil half(g/f) to get it.

loxxr6 · 05-02-2005, 03:23 PM

Very very quick update.

Car is back home.

Driving back in 30+ deg heat isn't very fun. Neither is taking the cumberland hwy for a fang and finding out the traffic sucks.

And finally, man I miss the Unichip....

Will post a bit more later tonight after a cool evening caning.

au-steve · 05-02-2005, 03:32 PM

wot sorta power it making?

xr8ute · 05-02-2005, 06:41 PM

Glad you've got it back. The day I bought my XR8 I drove it home along Parammatta road from Five Dock in bumper to bumper traffic....very frustrating.

I would definitely reset your computer if it hasn't been already. The learned values will be way off with the change in cam and Unichip disconnected, best start again from scratch.

Good luck tonight.

loxxr6 · 06-02-2005, 01:58 AM

Ok. The boring stuff. Here's a list of what was done :

New timing cover kit purchased as top chain guide cracked and broken, new chain and tensioner, replaced all guides (pics soon of damaged bits soon)
post machining
install of cam (duh)
unichip disconnected.
new valve springs put in.

I must add that Joe from Crescent Motors (02 9600 6229) stuck to his guns re: the labour figures initially quoted despite having to have the car in for extra time due to other work that was found to be needed doing. I'm very grateful for this. He was quite pleasant to deal with and on several occasions offered a hire car if I needed it.

Now to disappoint quite a few people first of all, I will say that I don't have dyno figures....yet. I'm holding out til I can get the car on a dyno dynamics dyno. I'd like this to be monday but I'll have to check what the cost is first. If not monday, later in the week(wed/thur) before work if I can scam some time off. I'm hanging to see some dyno results as I'm not sure if anyone has posted figures before of the dev5 cam with no headwork done (as mine is).

How does it go ? Well after driving home in the 30+ deg heat and encountering lots of traffic I was keen to find out as well. The Initial feeling was that since having the Unichip disconnected I'd lost a lot of that urgent acceleration feeling. The best way I can describe this is when you say compare a EL falcon 6cyl to a VS 6cyl commie. The commie has the better neck snap take off whilst the falcon powers on but it feels more steady rather than whiplash inducing. My low down go since the Unichip went has died in the ****. Do I miss the Unichip feeling ? Hell yeah. When the bank acct looks a lot healthier Autotech will be sorting that one out.

The idle isn't that bad either. From the inside you can pick a bit of a throbbing but I think I had a worse idle in my ED Fairmont. When you put the boot in you can hear the engine roar lol.

Like others have stated, the power comes on closer to 2800-3000 up til redline. If you're looking for a cam for low down go then you will be disappointed. I did manage to give the car a quick squirt however with a passenger in the car -due to a damn engagement party (2nd enagement party in a row for 2 weeks) - it wasn't really the same feeling as a fang on your own. Either way the car pulled along pretty well. The difference in the drive home at 1am compared to 4.30pm was huge(way cooler now). I can state that the car does hit 140 so much quicker now. The power comes in at more of a mid to top end range and it kinda builds up rather than pushes you back.

Tonight (sunday) I'll have a decent chance to cane it on the way home on the motorway. I'm looking forward to this. I think this time will give me the best indication of how things really go as I'll be by myself in the car.

Oh, I've been using Caltex Vortex 95 for the last 2 weeks or so.

I think thats all for now, its near 2am and I can't think of anything else. If any of the locals here (useless, jonbays, sox etc) are keen to give it a quick drive and give their opinions let me know and I'll see what I can arrange. I'm not that technically minded lol.

SpoolMan · 06-02-2005, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loxxr6

The Initial feeling was that since having the Unichip disconnected I'd lost a lot of that urgent acceleration feeling. The best way I can describe this is when you say compare a EL falcon 6cyl to a VS 6cyl commie. The commie has the better neck snap take off whilst the falcon powers on but it feels more steady rather than whiplash inducing. My low down go since the Unichip went has died in the ****. Do I miss the Unichip feeling ? Hell yeah. When the bank acct looks a lot healthier Autotech will be sorting that one out.

i hope this goes well for you, big cams without the right head work can hurt you a lot down low, on your take off..
when you get that unichip back in and tuned should improve get some timing into it..

Sox · 06-02-2005, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loxxr6

Oh, I've been using Caltex Vortex 95 for the last 2 weeks or so.

I wouldn't be using anything less than 98 fuels, which include Shell Optimax, Mobil 8000, BP Ultimate, and the new 98 Vortex.
Anything less than those and my XH rattles it's nuts off.
You may be experiencing the same thing, and the knock sensor is dragging some timing out.

Quote:

I think thats all for now, its near 2am and I can't think of anything else. If any of the locals here (useless, jonbays, sox etc) are keen to give it a quick drive and give their opinions let me know and I'll see what I can arrange. I'm not that technically minded lol.

I'll take it for a spin if you like, but you should feel a huge difference above 4000rpm. This is where the DEV5 is at it's best, and power doesn't taper off as it reaches redline, it just pulls until the rev limiter.

Rick.

**Stav** · 06-02-2005, 10:08 AM

I really believe that the excitment will come back with a unichip tune. Jim Mock cams are made to take advantage of the rich air fuel ratios to produce good odle and excellent terminal power. The xr6hp cam though produces bigger numbers down low but does not match the max power of the dev 5. If Spiro can retune the chip to produce the numbers down low that you had before ,you will be pulling flat 14 second 1/4 mile times. Ps me and JonBays may be approaching Spiro to fix the same limitations.
But as I have said about Joe at crescent motorsport ,he is an honest bloke who wont sell you short and has proven to be an asset to 16 owners here in Sydney.Other workshops would have ripped you blind for the extra work .When I was quoted to repair my broken timing chain I was quotes 600 dollars on its own!!!
Mate ill contact you on Monday as I am doing a huge law case report at the moment and you can drive mine as well.

jonbays · 06-02-2005, 02:11 PM

loxxr6 yes I need to see the results for myself all right.

Your Unichip and Dev5 powerband comments agree with what i expected to happen.

So I am hanging out to get a Unichip for the moment but if I could get a nice idle from a Dev5 well then why not go the whole hog.

We should try and get a meet at WSID one night or something

loxxr6 · 06-02-2005, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Anything less than those and my XH rattles it's nuts off.
You may be experiencing the same thing, and the knock sensor is dragging some timing out.

Would the knocking be noticeable coz the car seems to drive pretty much like before the Unichip. No weird sounds or shaking or anything. It just kinda feels like before the Unichip was done. Up top end it feels better.

Quote:

you should feel a huge difference above 4000rpm.

I definately do. I wonder how much a difference not getting the headwork makes tho. I'd love to see dyno results coz I'd be interested in seeing how it matches up along with your ute on the graphs Jonbays plotted out in excel.

Quote:

So I am hanging out to get a Unichip for the moment but if I could get a nice idle from a Dev5 well then why not go the whole hog.

Well if you want to fund me the connection and retune costs for the Unichip, I'll give you your answer :nutsycuck

I really don't rate the idle as an issue...its almost like nothings been done.

Quote:

I really believe that the excitment will come back with a unichip tune.

Whilst the car isn't unexciting, its definitely a bit more dulled on the urgency it had before(down low) from when the Unichip got done. Up top end it just gathers momentum quickly :Reverend:

If I can get outta bed in time, I'll see if autotech can squeeze me in for a dyno run tomorrow.

Sox · 06-02-2005, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loxxr6

Would the knocking be noticeable coz the car seems to drive pretty much like before the Unichip. No weird sounds or shaking or anything. It just kinda feels like before the Unichip was done. Up top end it feels better.

It is in my ute, though it's not loud.
If I use 95 fuel, it will give a loud rattle if I crack the throttle open quickly, then die off to a continous faint rattle if it's left at WOT.
Driving normally it rattles faintly on anything over 1/4 throttle.

Quote:

I definately do. I wonder how much a difference not getting the headwork makes tho. I'd love to see dyno results coz I'd be interested in seeing how it matches up along with your ute on the graphs Jonbays plotted out in excel.

Yep, that would be good to see.

Rick.

jonbays · 06-02-2005, 05:59 PM

All my funds are committed sorry mate.

Committed to get myself a unichip and soon.

Interesting the bottom end is all tune related and the cam should really haul in the top end with or without the headwork I believe but intersteing to see how spiro goes with it.

**Stav** · 06-02-2005, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loxxr6

Would the knocking be noticeable coz the car seems to drive pretty much like before the Unichip. No weird sounds or shaking or anything. It just kinda feels like before the Unichip was done. Up top end it feels better.
I definately do. I wonder how much a difference not getting the headwork makes tho. I'd love to see dyno results coz I'd be interested in seeing how it matches up along with your ute on the graphs Jonbays plotted out in excel.

Well if you want to fund me the connection and retune costs for the Unichip, I'll give you your answer :nutsycuck

I really don't rate the idle as an issue...its almost like nothings been done.
Whilst the car isn't unexciting, its definitely a bit more dulled on the urgency it had before(down low) from when the Unichip got done. Up top end it just gathers momentum quickly :Reverend:

If I can get outta bed in time, I'll see if autotech can squeeze me in for a dyno run tomorrow.

Higher compression heads tend to make knocking in the engine.Thats why they need better fuel.

If the car feels like before the unichip then you have achieved success. I stick by my guns that the chip will make your car a 1/4 mile killer.The power at top cannot generally be felt but it will show on a good dyno.I believe Spiros dyno is quite good but have used croydons 2 times 2 weeks in a row and got the same figures.So you will get an idea after the dyno.I am betting on 160 -165 rwkws if not more.

loxxr6 · 06-02-2005, 06:20 PM

Quote:

It is in my ute, though it's not loud.
If I use 95 fuel, it will give a loud rattle if I crack the throttle open quckly, then die off to a continous faint rattle if it's left at WOT.
Driving normally it rattles faintly on anything over 1/4 throttle.

I'll get the evil half to give the car a bit of a rev when I get home and I'll have a closer listen.

loxxr6 · 06-02-2005, 06:30 PM

Any idea Useless what the cost for a dyno run will be ?

**Stav** · 06-02-2005, 06:57 PM

Mate I think I paid 70 -90 dollars at Croydons.I tried to get into Spiros but they were always busy. I think you will have good increased power.A cam like that definately will pull more than my 141 rwks without a chip. When Joe put my dev 4 in I would have not believed that I gained much but from a car that typically puts out 115 rwkws with xorst ,I cant complain. .The dyno will reveal all. I am still refining my setup with little things and getting better acceleration and idle. You are lucky that Spiro genuinely looks after you and I think that it will be a balltearer once he is finished.I have come tothe conclusion also that a chip is only as goodas the tuner. Spiro is world class tuner for that application.

loxxr6 · 07-02-2005, 10:06 AM

Well, I ducked into Croydon's today for the dyno (Autotech was booked out for too long on every day I could get in) and I got the result.

So for those that don't know it's the Dev5 Cam, Hurricane Headers, 2.5" exhaust and cold air intake ONLY. That means no special spark plugs, no JMM headers, no headwork. The Dev 5 Cam experiment haha.

My previous figure with no cam and Unichip is 146.0rwkw.

I'd like to see the results plotted up against the Unichip figures.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ndunichipb.jpg

If anyone's keen to do this for me I'd be more than happy *hint hint* haha

loxxr6 · 07-02-2005, 10:10 AM

Sorry guys, I've tried resizing these down twice and they're still big. If it's an issue I'll just post the links. Let me know.

JC · 07-02-2005, 01:15 PM

This is not exactly what you meant, but at least they're both in the one graphic now!

**Stav** · 07-02-2005, 02:24 PM

Mate those figures will improve with the chip being done. Your air fuel ratios will give you more power .Running a bit rich at the moment.

But well done..146.6 rwkws with no chip is pretty good figure.

Mark351 · 07-02-2005, 02:50 PM

Do you have a stock cam vs Dev5 cam comparison?

I've scored 156rwkws on that Croydon dyno, but I always thought it was reading a bit high at the time.

**Polyal** · 07-02-2005, 02:53 PM

ok lox, I know you just said it before, but all you have is:

Dev5 cam
extractors
zorts
CAI

And you are making 146rwkw?

So if I was to do the same mods for my stock Ed 4.0, what figure could/should I expect? around 130?

thats a great effort! how much is a dev5 cam?

**Stav** · 07-02-2005, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathXR

Do you have a stock cam vs Dev5 cam comparison?

I've scored 156rwkws on that Croydon dyno, but I always thought it was reading a bit high at the time.

Hmm maybe,but Ihave found that dyno extremely consistent.Got 141.1 rwkws and 2 weeks later in much higher temperatures I got 141.6 rwkws.It is a good dyno.

Loxxr6 did get 146 rwkws on another dyno at autotech engineering and I saw it with my own 2 eyes.Nothing wrong with it. Now he has a bigger cam and bigger figures. Its just a matter of time that Spiro gets his hands on it and works his magic.
These guys dyno nissan gtrs all day long..quite fussy

xr8ute · 07-02-2005, 05:02 PM

I didn't think AFR looked too bad....pretty consistant 12.5:1.

It's probably a little richer than ideal, but much better then going off the chart at 10:1 by 4000rpm that these AU's seem to do standard @ WOT.

The graph is certainly not as smooth as the Unichip tune, probably because of the standard ignition timing maps. Will be very interesting to see the graph once the tune is done.

Still, you must be pretty stocked Lach, that figure is good for the mods and standard tune....much better than my XR8, lol.

**FTE217** · 07-02-2005, 05:15 PM

yes I thought the same,AFR wasn't too bad, it will be interesting what the figure will be after the Unichip tune.

jonbays · 07-02-2005, 08:03 PM

Well interesting I can plot up the stock pre unichip versus the dev5 no unichip and unichip power curves on one graph.

I am pretty sure you have 3.45 diff and 235/45 17 tyres and about 33.1kmh/100rpm so i can convert the graph to rwkw versus rpm.

loxxr6 · 07-02-2005, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Do you have a stock cam vs Dev5 cam comparison?

I have dyno sheets for - stock with exhaust, Unichip & exhaust and now Cam and Exhaust.

loxxr6 · 07-02-2005, 10:13 PM

Quote:

So if I was to do the same mods for my stock Ed 4.0, what figure could/should I expect? around 130?

There's debate that you really need an AU to get the Mock's quoted figures. How true that is I don't know however I'm probably thinking its untrue coz the original write up they have on their kits is from a pre AU car - EF I think.

Quote:

thats a great effort! how much is a dev5 cam

$490 for the cam plus you need the heavy duty valve springs.

I'm really wondering if I should have held out for the headwork to be done. Useless I'll have to arrange a time to compare idle/general driving in our cars to see how yours goes.

**Stav** · 07-02-2005, 10:18 PM

Judging by your power curve mate you will flog my car.At 100 kmph you are putting out 100rwkws .I am putting out 80? So I think you will be alot quicker than mine .But it could have to do with your gearing?I am not sure.

loxxr6 · 07-02-2005, 10:23 PM

Quote:

The graph is certainly not as smooth as the Unichip tune, probably because of the standard ignition timing maps. Will be very interesting to see the graph once the tune is done.

Still, you must be pretty stocked Lach, that figure is good for the mods and standard tune....much better than my XR8, lol.

I'm really counting on the Unichip to give the car back that edge low down, that it did.

I really noticed the power when heading up from the great western to old windsor road going up the incline. It just charges forward as the revs get higher.

Quote:

Well interesting I can plot up the stock pre unichip versus the dev5 no unichip and unichip power curves on one graph.

That would be awesome. Thanks.

Quote:

I am pretty sure you have 3.45 diff and 235/45 17 tyres and about 33.1kmh/100rpm so i can convert the graph to rwkw versus rpm.

Yep.

Actually, here's a question, since changing the cam would I have screwed up any low down go ? If so should the Unichip fix that or coz the cam has xx to xx powerband, its over for low down go ?