Four dead at Dreamworld.

[JADED6]

Tragic stuff.
Odds on the whole Gold Rush County area is torn down.
The old Eureka mountain train has been closed for 10 years. The 2 flume rides that form part of this area are very aged.
The rest of the park is pretty good. (sans engineer fatigue concerns on the tower/drop set up)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-2...mworld/7965296
Raft removal. Got pretty chewed up.

[.:4:.]

I just hope if it happens to be a maintenance cause, it was instructed, not just lazy. By that I mean, when doing some work at the mechanics where we get out work cars serviced I asked why they only change 1 tyre at a time. The response was because the quote got called in, 1 is legal, the other isn't, so we were told to only change 1. The other instance was my managers hi lux with warped front disks and shot pads. The call was yes it will pass rego with pads and there is enough meat on the rotors, the vibration won't fail rego if it stops ok. new pads no machined disks. All of that is instructed by my boss. I have many other issues with work car maint, but I won't digress. The mechanics only did what they were told to make it legal at the time. In a month who knows? It's cheaping out to the max, but it's no fault to the technician. Had it been something silly like the bloke wanting to knock off early on a friday, thats just negligent.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Something like this always hits home in more ways than one, especially when kids are involved. So many people I know have some form of connection with that ride or a similar one.

I think that is because most people in Australia have probably been on that ride, as well as countless tourists.

Imagine how many people have been through there since 1987

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

I think that is because most people in Australia have probably been on that ride, as well as countless tourists.

Imagine how many people have been through there since 1987

Stacks! It's a ride that families can go on together. I havn't been on it, but been on some similar ones in the states. I watch international news and it made headlines on all the major carriers.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Stacks! It's a ride that families can go on together. I havn't been on it, but been on some similar ones in the states. I watch international news and it made headlines on all the major carriers.

I think that is because it is a genuine disaster due to no fault of the patrons. It would be different if some drunk guy decided to stand up and stacked it over the side got minced.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by .:4:.

I think that is because it is a genuine disaster due to no fault of the patrons. It would be different if some drunk guy decided to stand up and stacked it over the side got minced.

Absolutely. And there's probably amusement parks globally that have a similar design/layout/maintenance like this ride - they will ensure this never happens again.

[Tassie f100]

I was not there, but I can see a few people blaming DW for this (probably without knowing the facts either), may be it was just an accident?? Just because people die does not instantly make it someone's fault. That ride has been operating since 1987, that's nearly 30 years, so it certainly is not a death trap as such.

Who knows what went wrong and if it was even a maintenance issue?

I guess that is what the investigation will hopefully ascertain.[/QUOTE]

When someone dies or gets injured it is always someones fault.Whether it be a maintenance problem,an operater misjudgement or plain inattention someone caused the incident not accident,there really is no such thing as an accident,someone caused it through their wrong doing.

[.:4:.]

I hope things don't go over the top in the future. I will reference the defunct wonderland. the pirate ship would be booring if it only went to 45 degrees not 360, the space probe would be a sight seeing trip if it didn't do the gravity drop with the electro magnet brakes. I just remembered a conversation I had years ago with one of the old bloke's I work with. he was at the time the night maintenance guy at luna park. This was after the ghost train burnt down. He spoke candidly about fuses that would blow time after time, and his fix to keep the things running was jam in a paperclip and leave a note for the day guys to fix. That falls into the same category as banging a nail into a fuse holder (seen that) or jamming a set of scissors into a meter protection fuse holder when ausgrid cut you off (seen that too). Apparently back then it was the norm, you can't get parts at night so keep it going untill you can. If it runs it makes money. It's messed up in my opinion

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

When someone dies or gets injured it is always someones fault.Whether it be a maintenance problem,an operater misjudgement or plain inattention someone caused the incident not accident,there really is no such thing as an accident,someone caused it through their wrong doing.

No, it can just be an accident, someone can quite easily die or be killed and it is no one's fault.

This is half the problem with the world, there is always someone else to blame.

If someone is at fault, then so be it, but if no one is at fault then so be it. What wrong doing are you talking about?? Are you saying someone made this happen by doing the wrong thing?? That's a big call based on what we know, has someone been arrested??

At the end of the day for someone to be liable you must be able to prove negligence on someone's behalf. ie that someone has done a thing that a reasonable and prudent person would not have done, or that someone should have done a thing that a reasonable and prudent person should have have done being in the same situation.

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

No, it can just be an accident, someone can quite easily die or be killed and it is no one's fault.

This is half the problem with the world, there is always someone else to blame.

If someone is at fault, then so be it, but if no one is at fault then so be it. What wrong doing are you talking about?? Are you saying someone made this happen by doing the wrong thing?? That's a big call based on what we know, has someone been arrested??

At the end of the day for someone to be liable you must be able to prove negligence on someone's behalf. ie that someone has done a thing that a reasonable and prudent person would not have done, or that someone should have done a thing that a reasonable and prudent person should have have done being in the same situation.

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing.

I agree totally to an extent. If you twisted your ankle after knocking your foot on the lifted concrete due to a tree that needed to grow? I wouldn't either, I would put it down to me sitting on the phone. Others seek liability.I could bring up my brother in laws girlfriends legal case which involves her checking her Facebook and missing a stair and breaking her ankle but I won't. (She is obese, and I'm not even being rude) apparently someone is liable for everything, you can't sue a tree for growing, but apparently you can the council, and yet you can sue a company for owning a staircase. Its beyond me

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

I'm not sure it should ever be allowed to open again.
You hear of these things happening in places like China, where OHS is lacking, but in Australia, I would have never imagined.
And if it does reopen, I will never visit again.

The difference with China is they just don't care, here we just have this extra layer of crap, from the outside the safety aspect looks good but its just tick the boxes, make and fill the forms and who cares about the actual safety side of it as long as that paperwork is all good.

[blueoval]

Please do not think I am being insensitive to the event and tragedy that unfolded, I am trying to get a grasp on what happened and who (if there is a who) is responsible when the report is ever made public. I will be happy to accept I am wrong.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Acc...Responsibility

The main difference between responsibility and accountability is that responsibility can be shared while accountability cannot. Being accountable not only means being responsible for something but also ultimately being answerable for your actions. Also, accountability is something you hold a person to only after a task is done or not done. Responsibility can be before and/or after a task

Based on the above definition, you have the customer and Dreamworld. Which area do they each fall under as they enter the premises do you think?

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

No, it can just be an accident, someone can quite easily die or be killed and it is no one's fault.

This is half the problem with the world, there is always someone else to blame.

If someone is at fault, then so be it, but if no one is at fault then so be it. What wrong doing are you talking about?? Are you saying someone made this happen by doing the wrong thing?? That's a big call based on what we know, has someone been arrested??

At the end of the day for someone to be liable you must be able to prove negligence on someone's behalf. ie that someone has done a thing that a reasonable and prudent person would not have done, or that someone should have done a thing that a reasonable and prudent person should have have done being in the same situation.

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing.

I'd be of the opinion that its a freak accident, unless the accusations from a former employee are found true (that this exact thing (the raft tipping on its side) happened in the first 6 months of the ride opening, and things were changed as a result, meaning they knew it could happen, and the safe guards have failed)

[mcflux]

The ride was built in 1987, to 1987 standards. Who knows whether it was updated over time to match current standards. Hopefully the least that can come out of this tragedy is that other rides in other parks are reviewed for their safety design & overhauled (or shut down) where needed to minimise any future risk of horrific incidents such as this.

I'm sure that if a recently-built ride of similar design had a stuck raft, or detected a flipped raft, or detected a "high load" on the belt (something caught in the belt/pulleys), then everything would STOP, the alarm instantly raised, & possibly the water be drained asap - assuming a raft wouldn't become a crush hazard. Also the design would be improved to remove the risk of stuck/flipped rafts.

We have conveyor belts at work that have been, over the years, retrofitted with all kinds of safety devices that detect belt slips, misalignments, high loads (hi amps & thermal overloads), various fire detectors, man-on-belt, etc etc, I'm sure that back in 1987 most of these would not have existed.

Dreamworld is screwed no matter what position they take out of this. $ to the family looks good AND bad, $ to the Red Cross looks good AND bad, CEO keeping her job/not keeping her job, etc etc

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

The ride was built in 1987, to 1987 standards. Who knows whether it was updated over time to match current standards.

I could not imagine that they build the ride in 1987 and that it has not been updated since then.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

I could not imagine that they build the ride in 1987 and that it has not been updated since then.

as far as the actual course of the ride, it is largely unchanged, but the way you enter and exit the ride has been upgraded a few times over the years.

i would imagine as safety laws are updated, so to must all equipment. its like going in to a timber yard and being told the saw doesn't need a guard because it was built before they were mandatory.

i'm guessing, but all rides would need to meet current legislation. it just doesn't make sense that they wouldn't. kind of defeats the purpose.

the park had a safety audit by an independant external company on the 29th sept apparently and passed.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

I could not imagine that they build the ride in 1987 and that it has not been updated since then.

I agree with that. Unlike a house, if you have anything that is known and high traffic, there is a much higher chance of workcover doing compliance inspections. In the past number of years when they updated the rcd rules, and then further updated them to remove the sockets above 2700 loop hole, many of the clients I work for had the upgrades done for insurance reasons. In something like dream world if they didn't comply with the current standards they would have been nailed years ago. It's not a case of claiming the tint on your car was original and legal back then, there are some safety upgrades that have to be done. Lack of maintenance may be a factor, but I doubt the safety systems were not there

[Stefan]

Accidents and near misses are always investigated on our construction sites, "lessons learnt" are distributed after the investigations are complete. It is always a culmination of multiple thing in an "alignment of the stars" that results in an incident. No doubt this will be the same.

I don't buy into it's "freak accident", there's always a cause and affect...

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Accidents and near misses are always investigated on our construction sites, "lessons learnt" are distributed after the investigations are complete. It is always a culmination of multiple thing in an "alignment of the stars" that results in an incident. No doubt this will be the same.

I don't buy into it's "freak accident", there's always a cause and affect...

You know as well as I, even if some one is stuck by lightning, an act of God so to speak, someone will be held liable.

[MITCHAY]

I think we should wait for the official findings of what happened come out.

There is some level of risk when you go on these rides but any negligence can't and should not be ignored.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by .:4:.

You know as well as I, even if some one is stuck by lightning, an act of God so to speak, someone will be held liable.

Circumstances always need to be considered... Yes being struck by lighting is an "Act of God", completely agree...

But lets say your son was struck by lightning while his school made him play golf during a lightning storm and he was killed by a lightning strike. Would you just say "**** happens"....I doubt it

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by Stefan

But lets say your son was struck by lightning while his school made him play golf during a lightning storm and he was killed by a lightning strike. Would you just say "**** happens"....I doubt it

Thats a little different then a freak accident, we'll sort of but not really. Its would be a duty of care issue as the school is the Guardian and should know better. Had it been the first lighting strike in a light drizzle, then that's an accident, if it was a thunder storm and they sent them out it's different.

[Stefan]

If this is the first time one of these things flipped then yeah it may be deemed a freak accident. I guess time will tell and being such a high profile incident I'm sure we will all know the final out come of the investigation.

[buggerlugs]

http://www.news.com.au/national/aust...37298fd7f89797

What's the old saying "Shutting the gate after the horse has bolted"...............

[scoupedy]

four people died horribly in one hit, it is a catastrophic ***** up.
remember this is Queensland its dodgy as, I have worked at so many sites that are all dangerous and the people in charge don't even see the problem just the money.
E.g. the boss (JIM) at Colquhoun's Bag company (Darra) thought It was a good idea to clean the floor by pouring thinners all over the concrete floor and then have the labourers scrap it with hardened steel tools -shovels and jimmy bars. he also did stuff like put people up 8m into the air on pallets via the forklift, and run the forklift with broken battery and leaking hydraulic lines that spread oil all over the floor, sure made it interesting when also wet.
Meanwhile Worksafe Qld did nothing, and I end up getting sacked for putting stock where they wanted how they wanted, when I question it and said it was unsafe then when it fell over I got the sack.

[GS608]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

four people died horribly in one hit, it is a catastrophic ***** up.
remember this is Queensland its dodgy as, I have worked at so many sites that are all dangerous and the people in charge don't even see the problem just the money.
E.g. the boss (JIM) at Colquhoun's Bag company (Darra) thought It was a good idea to clean the floor by pouring thinners all over the concrete floor and then have the labourers scrap it with hardened steel tools -shovels and jimmy bars. he also did stuff like put people up 8m into the air on pallets via the forklift, and run the forklift with broken battery and leaking hydraulic lines that spread oil all over the floor, sure made it interesting when also wet.
Meanwhile Worksafe Qld did nothing, and I end up getting sacked for putting stock where they wanted how they wanted, when I question it and said it was unsafe then when it fell over I got the sack.

QLD is dodgy? after working on construction sites in brisbane and sydney within the last 2 weeks can say QLD is over the top with safety..eg site shut down for the day because temp emergency lighting wasn't up to scratch in stair wells..while sydney blokes using grinders without guards, extension leads snaked all over the floor..

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

http://www.news.com.au/national/aust...37298fd7f89797

What's the old saying "Shutting the gate after the horse has bolted"...............

Damned in they did. Damned if they didn't.

[scoupedy]

Originally Posted by GS608

QLD is dodgy? after working on construction sites in brisbane and sydney within the last 2 weeks can say QLD is over the top with safety..eg site shut down for the day because temp emergency lighting wasn't up to scratch in stair wells..while sydney blokes using grinders without guards, extension leads snaked all over the floor..

yeah I haven't worked in my industry in NSW have worked their but not in warehousing. cant image somewhere in Australia being worse just going on my experiences NEARLY every worksite is dodgy up here
People die and the bosses get bonuses FTW

[2011G6E]

The whole story just gets worse and worse.
I smell a simply massive business-ending lawsuit in the works if even half what we have heard is true about faults being glossed over and ignored, especially earlier in the same day...that's how Workplace Health & Safety gets managers put in jail..."you knew about the fault, but did nothing to fix it, now four people are dead".

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The whole story just gets worse and worse.
I smell a simply massive business-ending lawsuit in the works if even half what we have heard is true about faults being glossed over and ignored, especially earlier in the same day...that's how Workplace Health & Safety gets managers put in jail..."you knew about the fault, but did nothing to fix it, now four people are dead".

Nah they'll just do a Grocon and cut a deal in court, the same thing happened when the wall collapsed in Carlton, it went to Magistrates Court, they cut a deal with Worksafe, plead guilty and just paid the $250,000 fine, if it went up to County Court the fines and penalties jump massively, if it went to County Court the fine would be $1.1M.

Worksafe counts it as a 'win', Grocon gets out of it with only $250K to pay but the families of the two dead teenagers and the French tourist left with a sour taste in their mouth.

Blame put on subcontractors, subcontractor closes down, opens up under a new name and its business as usual.

Government regulators don't have the resources to fight a prolonged legal battle with multinational companies.

Kill three people, pay $250K, good deal.

OHS in this country is a joke, its just there to look good at a distance, as long as you do the paperwork and keep the obvious hidden you'll be fine.