If the Opel Commodore fails to sell can the Elizabeth plant be switched back on?

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by Maka

But successful Australian companies export to the world right?

We are whinging about the demise of the Falcon & Commodore which were orphan cars because..

If the full range of those two were exported around the globe in their own *niche & if they were wholly owned by Australian corporate entities, they would be alive today imo. Its all ifs & buts now dohh..

*This is the all important bit.

cheers, Maka

An Aussie owned brand that could export around the world would've/could've/might've been successful. The government would've had much more incentive to help them out.

We'd then have a rich history of Dundee Koalas rather than Ford Falcons.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

An Aussie owned brand that could export around the world would've/could've/might've been successful. The government would've had much more incentive to help them out.

We'd then have a rich history of Dundee Koalas rather than Ford Falcons.

How about for instance, (Andrew) Forrest & (Dick) Smith EagleHawk's, tougher sounding lol -

https://www.beautyofbirds.com/wedgetailedeagles.html

cheers, Maka

[FTE]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Look, if Australian companies could get away with paying us the same wages they pay Chinese and Indian workers they would. The only thing stopping them is unions.

Exactly right.
I work in an industry that has a heavy union presence and the increases over the years have been healthy for the workers. I am staff and dont have the same support as the guys on my crew so I have only seen one minor increase in the past 6 years. Our yearly income is almost the same.

As for whoever made the comment about Fairwork fining companies who underpay is a joke. Remember Kevin Rudds wife underpaying her staff by $70k? She was investigated and found not guilty of deliberately underpaying staff and not fined.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

An Aussie owned brand that could export around the world would've/could've/might've been successful. The government would've had much more incentive to help them out.

We'd then have a rich history of Dundee Koalas rather than Ford Falcons.

We had no way of doing such a fully Aussie car at all.

The cost of just getting a model from the start of the drawing to the show room floor would be hopeless, the first Holden FX could be said of that it was the most advanced car in the world at the time.
If only Australia was involved alone it would of been just a backwards 3rd rate rubbish car that they would of come up with.

The Government were smart in them days and did the best thing, Australia benefited greatly for it all.
Not only in only making cars but all the rest that really kicked Australia off and we got many people who became experience out of it all who went on to benefit others. it made Australia great and people could be proud of our nation.

People who bag GM and Ford USA back in all them days are just fools, I hear crap about USA making money out of Australia, oh boo hoo ! someone makes an investment in something, should hope to make a return on that investment I would think, because if such did not, we would all be living in f ing wigwams.

Oh some can't count past ones fingers and toes or one thinks someone is making more money than they are, well that's just to bad and that's the type of moron that would struggle to run even a chook raffle.

When the head of GM was asked if they would invest in making a car in Australia he refused to bother because such a thing would of been a dead investment, so the gov came up with the plan so they would invest, so no fully Aussie company could of had a crack an make a go of it on such a scale.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

We had no way of doing such a fully Aussie car at all.

That was way back & thanks for the history lesson lol.

We are in the present here & now with the future to look forward to.

We have the people & the know how now, if we didnt why are the various auto design studios still here?

We as a country will never do anything if fear mongers keep sprouting untruthful crap, think small - stay small, think big - be big. If Aussie people & companies present & past didnt have a go on a global scale, this country would already be 3rd world..

This is a nice link to read -

https://www.smh.com.au/business/new-...13-gz097l.html

Today, we as a country have everything to be successful on a global scale at anything we want to if we had the balls to do it.

cheers, Maka

[jpd80]

Up until Friday, I was seeing a few Equinox and Commodore ads on free to air
but I've not see any this week.......

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by FTE

Exactly right.
I work in an industry that has a heavy union presence and the increases over the years have been healthy for the workers. I am staff and dont have the same support as the guys on my crew so I have only seen one minor increase in the past 6 years. Our yearly income is almost the same.

As for whoever made the comment about Fairwork fining companies who underpay is a joke. Remember Kevin Rudds wife underpaying her staff by $70k? She was investigated and found not guilty of deliberately underpaying staff and not fined.

Correct. When I was in the Auto industry the CFMEU, ETU, NUW, etc never budged on wage hikes. We got 5% increases every year for a decade. And the unions wanted more! Yet when the unions were trying to rally the employees, except for a few militant members, most employees were happy to accept what the company offered.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

As for your convenient example of comparing a factory worker to a Nurse. Its well known that nurses are grossly underpaid.

My niece is a nurse and they are extraordinarily well paid for what they do.
She was getting 1.5x the average wage the year after her graduation and it gets better over time now she has 10+ years.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

My niece is a nurse and they are extraordinarily well paid for what they do.
She was getting 1.5x the average wage the year after her graduation and it gets better over time now she has 10+ years.

So I had to google this. The average wage for nurses in Australia is $65k per year. The average full time wage for Australians is $78k per year.

I’d call $65k a very poor wage. Not even factoring in the stressful conditions nurses can be required to work under. Nights, weekends, public holidays. Cleaning up blood, vomit, wiping up old guys who’ve crapped themselves.
Watching children being diagnosed with cancer. Comforting patients today, watching their corpse being wheeled away tomorrow. Physical abuse from patients such as junkies.

All for $65k? I wouldn’t even get out of bed for that money, let alone deal with that.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

The average full time wage for Australians is $78k per year.

Really? I find that difficult to believe.

[Trendseeker]

There are a number of nursing grades with different levels of pay. Mercury Bullet’s niece is a grad, so she would be a registered nurse, and with overtime payments, she would earn a reasonable wage. It is a difficult job.

But back on topic, this article appeared in SMH today about Holden:

https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...13-p4z9gs.html

The average number of car sales for Holden dealers last month was only 26.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

There are a number of nursing grades with different levels of pay. Mercury Bullet’s niece is a grad, so she would be a registered nurse, and with overtime payments, she would earn a reasonable wage. It is a difficult job.
PAi
But back on topic, this article appeared in SMH today about Holden:

https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...13-p4z9gs.html

The average number of car sales for Holden dealers last month was only 26.

It was registered nurses that I quoted.

[Trendseeker]

My daughter is a registered nurse in a NSW public hospital and her annual salary is well north of the $65K average that you mentioned. Your average is calculated from the wages of ENs, RNs and others. Which is why Mercury Bullet’s niece, who is an RN, earns more than the average. I agree that nurses deserve higher pay for what they do.
Why are we talking about nurses in a thread about Holden’s dire situation?

[FormulaFG]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Really? I find that difficult to believe.

That's because its a mathematical average and not a real world average.

By that I mean most people in the real world would be in the 50-60k bracket. The ones that are above are WELL ABOVE and as a result when its balanced out you get this misleading "average" wage.

[Trendseeker]

Yes, the median provides a better indicator than an average.

[Trendseeker]

Some excerpts from that article:

https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...13-p4z9gs.html

“Furious dealers were among analysts who attended a recent crisis meeting at the Port Melbourne headquarters to formulate a plan for the future of the General Motors-owned brand.
An unprecedented sales slump and a failure of much-hyped new imported models to fire has instigated discounting, degrading the brand.”
“In February, Holden posted its worst monthly sales. It was followed in March by a record low market share of 4.8 per cent. Worse, Holden has slipped to 10th on the sales charts. Until 2018 the brand had never been below fourth.”
“In the first quarter the average Holden dealer shifted just 26 new cars per month. In comparison, the average Toyota dealer sold 85 per month and the average Mazda dealer 72. Even Mercedes-Benz – a premium brand with higher margins – shifted 57 cars per dealer.
Many of those sales were classified as demonstrators. (for customer test drives. In the case of Astra, demonstrator registrations outdid sales to private buyers, according to figures reported to the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries).
Those cars end up being sold as near-new vehicles, often at big discounts.
Sales were expected to dip post-manufacturing, but no one – including Holden – expected them to drop so dramatically.
Holden’s market share has slumped from 7.1 per cent before the manufacturing shutdown to 5.3 per cent this year. The three most recent brands to cease local manufacturing in Australia – Toyota, Ford and Mitsubishi – experienced nothing like that plunge. It’s indicative of a brand that’s relied on locally-made large cars, which have been the backbone of Holden for 69 years.
“They didn’t pay attention to the consequences of not having their flagship car and relying solely upon it.”
“It was once families, farmers, business executives and middle class Australia lining up to buy Holdens.
But in recent years it’s turned its attention to minorities – LGBTI and ethnic groups – “to better reflect and connect with today’s Australia”, none of which is a bad thing.
In doing so, it turned its back on traditional Holden buyers, the people arguably most likely to give the brand a chance in its import-only form.
Holden also focused on younger buyers, an odd move considering the average age of a new car buyer is 51. There was backtracking once Holden realised it had alienated so many.
Despite the sales slump, orders were in and boats were on their way, leaving dealerships with excess and executives scratching their heads over how to clear the backlog.
Panic appears to have set in – and sporadic extended warranties and discounting have been the solution.
Holden is selling its small car – which when it launched last year was hailed as “stronger than ever” – for less than rivals are selling city cars.”

[b0son]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

So I had to google this. The average wage for nurses in Australia is $65k per year. The average full time wage for Australians is $78k per year.

I’d call $65k a very poor wage.

Your average for all Australians includes the tiny percentage of Aussies on astronomical wages (CEOs, medical specialists, QCs, etc). If you take the average wage of toilet cleaners, its going to look poor compared to the national average. That doesn't mean they deserve a payrise based on that metric alone.

Nurses may require a uni degree, but that doesn't mean all nurses are particularly highly trained individuals with significant responsibility. The nurses that do have significant level of autonomy and responsibility are paid well. Like any job, the number of people needed to do that job reduces as you climb the ladder. We cant all be managers, and nor are we all capable of being them. Supply/demand means that grunt work is cheap.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

Some excerpts from that article:

https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...13-p4z9gs.html

“Furious dealers were among analysts who attended a recent crisis meeting at the Port Melbourne headquarters to formulate a plan for the future of the General Motors-owned brand.
An unprecedented sales slump and a failure of much-hyped new imported models to fire has instigated discounting, degrading the brand.”
“In February, Holden posted its worst monthly sales. It was followed in March by a record low market share of 4.8 per cent. Worse, Holden has slipped to 10th on the sales charts. Until 2018 the brand had never been below fourth.”
“In the first quarter the average Holden dealer shifted just 26 new cars per month. In comparison, the average Toyota dealer sold 85 per month and the average Mazda dealer 72. Even Mercedes-Benz – a premium brand with higher margins – shifted 57 cars per dealer.
Many of those sales were classified as demonstrators. (for customer test drives. In the case of Astra, demonstrator registrations outdid sales to private buyers, according to figures reported to the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries).
Those cars end up being sold as near-new vehicles, often at big discounts.
Sales were expected to dip post-manufacturing, but no one – including Holden – expected them to drop so dramatically.
Holden’s market share has slumped from 7.1 per cent before the manufacturing shutdown to 5.3 per cent this year. The three most recent brands to cease local manufacturing in Australia – Toyota, Ford and Mitsubishi – experienced nothing like that plunge. It’s indicative of a brand that’s relied on locally-made large cars, which have been the backbone of Holden for 69 years.
“They didn’t pay attention to the consequences of not having their flagship car and relying solely upon it.”
“It was once families, farmers, business executives and middle class Australia lining up to buy Holdens.
But in recent years it’s turned its attention to minorities – LGBTI and ethnic groups – “to better reflect and connect with today’s Australia”, none of which is a bad thing.
In doing so, it turned its back on traditional Holden buyers, the people arguably most likely to give the brand a chance in its import-only form.
Holden also focused on younger buyers, an odd move considering the average age of a new car buyer is 51. There was backtracking once Holden realised it had alienated so many.
Despite the sales slump, orders were in and boats were on their way, leaving dealerships with excess and executives scratching their heads over how to clear the backlog.
Panic appears to have set in – and sporadic extended warranties and discounting have been the solution.
Holden is selling its small car – which when it launched last year was hailed as “stronger than ever” – for less than rivals are selling city cars.”

Damn straight, if I was a dealer, I’d have the pitchfork out too. These guys have been hit by a perfect storm, closing the factory, then as the 2 Opel sourced ranges are about to launch, the brand gets sold, the headlines stick in the minds of consumers.
Car buyers don’t like uncertainty, Holden’s message has been mixed, they lack consistency.
Growth categories are filled with GM sourced cars that are below average
Trax-Underdone (I’m driving a work one now)
Equinox-underdone, strange packaging
Colorado-underdone even though it’s $10k cheaper than hilux

They need a 7year warranty across the range as a minumum, they need a cheap headline interest rate to get finance customers over the line.

I don’t think any of this will happen, the whole brand has the smell of death around it.

[jpd80]

I think Holden and its dealers are truly shocked at the moment and as much as we speculate what now,
I don't think they even know or see a way out of this...

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

So I had to google this. The average wage for nurses in Australia is $65k per year. The average full time wage for Australians is $78k per year.

I’d call $65k a very poor wage. Not even factoring in the stressful conditions nurses can be required to work under. Nights, weekends, public holidays. Cleaning up blood, vomit, wiping up old guys who’ve crapped themselves.
Watching children being diagnosed with cancer. Comforting patients today, watching their corpse being wheeled away tomorrow. Physical abuse from patients such as junkies.

All for $65k? I wouldn’t even get out of bed for that money, let alone deal with that.

I would say that $65k is very good money, I know of many a great tradesman who could be flat out to even earn that and get treated like total crap and kicked around like a dog with nothing to back them up, ripped off left right and centre dealing with bankrupts etc etc all the time.

[csv8]

Nursing wages vary from State to State. My daughter as a first year solicitor was on $65k. That's Monday to Friday-8-5 no afternoon/nightshifts or weekend work. I am a nurse and our pay isn't good. Its only because of shiftwork/weekend work that makes it reasonable.
Nurses in nursing homes are badly paid. That's a disgrace, I would be on $5 an hour less in a nursing home than a public hospital. The really high paid jobs in nursing are very few. No Australian has had a decent pay rise in 10 years form Bureau of Stats. Except the Pollies !! My EB 10 is offering 2.5% !!! Spend a weekend in ED! and see what nurses Drs put up with. Now, Nurses have a Code of Conduct towards indigenous. end of rant,
https://www.health.qld.gov.au/hrpoli..._rates/nursing

[csv8]

danzvtil.. Equinox-underdone, strange packaging. Wheels March issue comparison between Escape Trend FWD and Equinox LS+. Trend outscores Escape by 1 point. Ford charge $1300 for AEB, blind-spot monitoring, lane-keep assist and active cruise control. (should be able to get it in a deal)All standard on Equinox. Escape is more expensive to own that Equinox, Servicing is $295 more in Trend over 3 years. Equinox can tow 2 tonne Escape 1800 tonne. They are both very close and its buyers decision to go blue or red.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by csv8

Nursing wages vary from State to State. My daughter as a first year solicitor was on $65k. That's Monday to Friday-8-5 no afternoon/nightshifts or weekend work.

Supply/demand. Its comparatively easy to become a nurse, far less so if you want to be a lawyer. I see a lot of people currently whining about childcare wages too, but ignoring the fact that its probably the easiest option for someone with low skills straight out of school. The path to higher wages in an industry is to create barriers to entry, be they academic requirements, or higher professional standards.

[Nikked]

Back to the OP's question.

Nope.

For Holden to re-start manufacturing here is not as simple as having parts ready to go...VF was gling to be replaced around about this time as it is...

Not to mention the costs of re-negotiating supply deals, work force etc etc.

There is no turning back.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by b0son

Supply/demand. Its comparatively easy to become a nurse, far less so if you want to be a lawyer. I see a lot of people currently whining about childcare wages too, but ignoring the fact that its probably the easiest option for someone with low skills straight out of school. The path to higher wages in an industry is to create barriers to entry, be they academic requirements, or higher professional standards.

Don't agree it isn't easy to become a nurse 3 years at Uni 1 Grad Year. Not an easy profession. About a third drop out in their first year, after graduating or do something else at Uni.
Law isn't easy 4 years to get the Law Degree then another a year for the Associate Diploma Right to Practice. Law degree doesn't qualify you as a lawyer. You need Assoc Dip. back to topic.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by csv8

danzvtil.. Equinox-underdone, strange packaging. Wheels March issue comparison between Escape Trend FWD and Equinox LS+. Trend outscores Escape by 1 point. Ford charge $1300 for AEB, blind-spot monitoring, lane-keep assist and active cruise control. (should be able to get it in a deal)All standard on Equinox. Escape is more expensive to own that Equinox, Servicing is $295 more in Trend over 3 years. Equinox can tow 2 tonne Escape 1800 tonne. They are both very close and its buyers decision to go blue or red.

So a brand new vehicle can't beat a 6 year old one? Says it all about the Equinox really. The Escape actually outsold it too, and half of those Equinox "sales" were most likely dealer demos.

Holden were expecting this thing to battle the market leaders in terms of sales. But it has absolutely bombed. The Holden brand is dirt atm.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Nikked

There is no turning back.

Not now, no, but in around mid 2016, there was rumour that with the **** falling out of the aussie dollar they may have backflipped and continued on until 2022 as was originally planned.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by csv8

Nursing wages vary from State to State. My daughter as a first year solicitor was on $65k. That's Monday to Friday-8-5 no afternoon/nightshifts or weekend work. I am a nurse and our pay isn't good. Its only because of shiftwork/weekend work that makes it reasonable.
Nurses in nursing homes are badly paid. That's a disgrace, I would be on $5 an hour less in a nursing home than a public hospital. The really high paid jobs in nursing are very few. No Australian has had a decent pay rise in 10 years form Bureau of Stats. Except the Pollies !! My EB 10 is offering 2.5% !!! Spend a weekend in ED! and see what nurses Drs put up with. Now, Nurses have a Code of Conduct towards indigenous. end of rant,
https://www.health.qld.gov.au/hrpoli..._rates/nursing

Absolutely. Nurses are way underpaid. I know, I'm married to one. We're about the same as well...and often coping the start of what ED cops, before we bring them into you.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by b0son

Supply/demand. Its comparatively easy to become a nurse, far less so if you want to be a lawyer. I see a lot of people currently whining about childcare wages too, but ignoring the fact that its probably the easiest option for someone with low skills straight out of school. The path to higher wages in an industry is to create barriers to entry, be they academic requirements, or higher professional standards.

Are you for real? Do you know what qualifications a nurse requires? Do you know the hours of study required to get there? Now for lawyer .....I had better shut up before admin takes a scalpel to my jewels.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

So a brand new vehicle can't beat a 6 year old one? Says it all about the Equinox really. The Escape actually outsold it too, and half of those Equinox "sales" were most likely dealer demos.

Holden were expecting this thing to battle the market leaders in terms of sales. But it has absolutely bombed. The Holden brand is dirt atm.

Commodore did a lot more than just provide good RWD car sales,
it also buoyed all those other car and SUV sales that dealerships relied on.......

It's really hit the fan over at Holden, big time.