Ford Fiesta Sales

[AS_Telstar_Man]

Back to the original topic - that's easy, Ford Dealers suck the big one (well the 3 that I went to around my area), Ford marketing sux, and Ford's brand is on the decline. The Fiesta is a good car but they're marketing it all wrong - comparisons with other 'Euro' brands just doesn't work in Australia and harping on about German engineering at 16990 doesn't make jackshit difference when Mazda2s, Swifts and Yaris all come from Japan - for luxury cars >60k Germany is better than Japan. But at <20k Japan will beat Germany everytime cos the cost of ownership of a Jap car is cheaper and the quality difference is negligible (everyone will use cheap materials and cut corners at <20k).

Ford is the 'company that builds Falcons (aka taxis, the car dad use to drive, cop cars, govt cars etc)and as such its competitors in Australia ARE Holden, Mitsu and Toyota and every motoring journal compares the Fiesta up against Barina, Colt, Yaris - throw in Swift and Jazz for good measure.

I love it everytime Ford/Holden/Mitsu tries to push margin over volume - it dies in the **** everytime see the VE Commodore, 380 'make more private sales to keep the residuals up and don't discount' grand plans - total flops. The VE is selling now because Holden has to throw in free A/C and a free full-sized spare wheel to try to get closer to Aurion pricing. ****** RRP. I can see what Ford is doing with the Fiesta now - artificially trying to keep the supply down to keep prices up. Maybe its what they want but at this end of the market they should've gone for high volume and low margin, imported a hell of a lot more, pumped up the supply and probably have been able to cut the price by $500 and the waiting times to nothing - you know what Ford, nothing sells your cars like having them on the road and other people seeing them ON the road. You NEED more Fords of every type on Aussie roads. There's too few Focii and far too few Fiestas thats why you're stuck as the 'company that builds Falcons'.

Toyota, Mazdas and Honda (Mazda3, Civic/Accord) successes are self-perpetuating in a way - every near new car on the road is kinda like a moving ad. This brings me to my next point - I was negotiating at 3 different dealers and NOT one of them would do an Fiesta 3dr manual LX driveaway at 17000 - 1 month ago. This annoyed me greatly - they were all stuck at 17250, 17300 and being dicks about it with their used-car salesman tactics. I opened up the paper last week and guess what, Fiesta LX 3 dr manuals have a whole page to themselves, 16990 driveaway ADVERTISED. Am I glad I didn't buy the Fiesta - not cos I wanted to save $300 (or a bit more really) but because full page ads in papers with driveaway prices really hurt resale and a cars image sometimes - people think "wow, that's cheap but hold on there must be something wrong with Fiesta sales". This is the same reason why people don't buy 380s - cos Mitsubishi did this too many times in the past with the Magna - making some poor soul pay close to RRP and then the next weekend (not next year but literally the weekend after) dropping the price with a massive driveaway ad in the paper.

Don't get me wrong - the Fiesta is a GOOD CAR in its own merit. I test drove one and almost bought one because I really liked it - it handles nice and feels solid. However - Ford (dealerships, marketing) f888ked up every other part of the sales process so in the end I bought a Yaris 1.5 (don't hurt me) to replace the Telstar. It goes fast, every bit as solid and a slightly more modern design however the too skinny low-friction fuel saving tyres (185/60) with the higher centre of gravity means that it won't be a Fiesta around corners but as an A-B city car I'm not always looking for those limits - don't knock em until you've driven one. As for Toyota, well I know I said something bad about Toyota owners on this forum once but the Toyota ownership experience - cheaper parts, friendlier sales staff, a marketing dept that isn't going to crucify a cars resale and dealerships who've got their act together i.e they know they're going to make minimal margin on a <20k car but if they don't sell it to me, someone else will and that's another sales loss so lets just make the best of this we can and offer good service anyway cos they'll be back to buy another Toyota if we do so. I'm not saying their are no ******** Toyota dealers but at least 2/3 that I visited were willing and fair negotiators.

It just all ends up being a cheaper total cost of ownership when resales hold up, and resales hold up guess when? WHen heaps of private buyers buy a car so it comes as no surprise that Corolla, Mazda3 and Yaris resales as a percentage kill Commodore and Camry (fleet cars).

[Teki04]

HA.

You own a Yaris. :P

Had to say it.

Apart from that, I'd agree with most of the stuff you've mentioned. :lookedat:

[Ives]

AS Telstar Man, wow... long post. Considering everything you've said on your post, i'd still pick Fiesta over Yaris YRS/YRX anyday. I was soooo glad I didnt sign that paper at the Toyota dealer (I was that close). After I considered the other small cars, Fiesta still IS the best car I can get under $20k.

I have NO problem whatsover buying the Fiesta, I find the dealer very curteous and I didnt feel pressured or anything (or is it me that's immune to any kinds of pressure). As far as the waiting time went... I signed on Sunday, got the car the next Friday. Badabing. No problem, no big deal.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by AS_Telstar_Man

The Fiesta is a good car but they're marketing it all wrong - comparisons with other 'Euro' brands just doesn't work in Australia and harping on about German engineering at 16990 doesn't make jackshit difference when Mazda2s, Swifts and Yaris all come from Japan - for luxury cars >60k Germany is better than Japan. But at <20k Japan will beat Germany everytime cos the cost of ownership of a Jap car is cheaper and the quality difference is negligible (everyone will use cheap materials and cut corners at <20k).

That's the biggest bunch of.........

Try a VW Polo 1.4 ($16,990) on, sit in it, feel the interior and then tell me about corner and cost cutting. I guarantee it will put any Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc to complete shame. We owned one from 2001 - 06 before it went for a Golf 2.0 FSI, and anyone who sat in it commented on it being better then <insert more expensive Japanese car here>. It used less then 5L/100km, so it would beat a Prius in the fuel economy stakes (a guy from my old school has one and can't get under 6.2L/100km with it, combined average). A Prius is $38,990, the Polo was 26 on-road. It was problem free the whole time, and would easily continue being problem free. And resale value... after 5 years and 70,000km it traded for $12,000 at the dealership for the brand new Golf. I'd love to see an Echo/Yaris, Jazz, Mazda 2, even Fiesta manage that.

Oh the quality difference isn't negligeble, it's immense. In the German's favour.

[AS_Telstar_Man]

Originally Posted by Steffo

That's the biggest bunch of.........

Try a VW Polo 1.4 ($16,990) on, sit in it, feel the interior and then tell me about corner and cost cutting. I guarantee it will put any Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc to complete shame. We owned one from 2001 - 06 before it went for a Golf 2.0 FSI, and anyone who sat in it commented on it being better then <insert more expensive Japanese car here>. It used less then 5L/100km, so it would beat a Prius in the fuel economy stakes (a guy from my old school has one and can't get under 6.2L/100km with it, combined average). A Prius is $38,990, the Polo was 26 on-road. It was problem free the whole time, and would easily continue being problem free. And resale value... after 5 years and 70,000km it traded for $12,000 at the dealership for the brand new Golf. I'd love to see an Echo/Yaris, Jazz, Mazda 2, even Fiesta manage that.

Oh the quality difference isn't negligeble, it's immense. In the German's favour.

I was talking about Fords marketing and Fords compared to a Toyota - at no point did I mention the Polo. You paid 26k in 2001 money to put a Volkswagen Polo on the road, no doubt with the bigger engine and all the fruit - if I paid 26k for a car that size it better be bloody well built as well! There were no Jap cars that size more expensive than the Polo at the time.

Can't compare a 26k 2001 polo with an 16990 2006 polo either. Your one was built in Germany, the new South African sourced Polos/Golfs...they might use nice materials but believe me they don't make 'em like they used to anymore. I had one mate who had an A3 and moved to the latest diesel 110kW Golf - not impressed with the interior/general quality. Another mate who doesn't wanna upgrade from the previous Golf to the latest one cos the previous German made Golfs had better interiors. But the South African argument is for another time - u better hope they don't start sourcing their Polo hatches from China soon.

As for resale values - here's some real facts:

2001 5 door 5 sp manual cars with the smallest donk you can get.

Polo: http://www.redbookasiapacific.com/au...p?key=VOLK01AV
Echo: http://www.redbookasiapacific.com/au...p?key=TOYO01CS

Echo wins on a percentage basis. Fiesta has only been out since 04 so I'll have to wait until 09 to do the 5 year thing with a Fiesta.

If you drive a Prius and any other Fiesta/Polo/Yaris/Jazz/Swift on the highway, the non-hybrids will beat the Prius in fuel economy - this is a known fact. Prius weighs 300kg more and the petrol 1.5litre has to remain running on the highway. Actually, I never saw the point of buying a 30k+ hybrid in the first place as the hybrid uses the same amount of petrol as a 17k econobox. If you need to drive, the kindest thing you can do for the environment and your wallet is to buy a 17k econobox cos it takes less resources to build than a hybrid and will have a longer operating life than a hybrid. Hybrids are useful only if they're big like the GS450H or whatever it is - giving you heaps of big luxury car performance at 11l/100km.

My previous post got me thinking though - Holden has buggered up as well - they were onto a good thing when they were doing the whole segregated 'Local importer of Opel || Commodore Factory' image before they flushed it all down the toilet in favour of badge engineering daewoos. Ford should be pushing harder with that - trying to split its Ford of Europe products from everything else. They weren't helped when ACA did a 'lemon car' article and one of the cars was a Focus LX :(

[AS_Telstar_Man]

Originally Posted by HyperKid

AS Telstar Man, wow... long post. Considering everything you've said on your post, i'd still pick Fiesta over Yaris YRS/YRX anyday. I was soooo glad I didnt sign that paper at the Toyota dealer (I was that close). After I considered the other small cars, Fiesta still IS the best car I can get under $20k.

I have NO problem whatsover buying the Fiesta, I find the dealer very curteous and I didnt feel pressured or anything (or is it me that's immune to any kinds of pressure). As far as the waiting time went... I signed on Sunday, got the car the next Friday. Badabing. No problem, no big deal.

That's cool - everybody is entitled to their own choice. I got burnt buying a used Peugeot once so I'm really wary of idiot car dealers now and euro cars as well. I mean I was seconds away from picking up a pen and signing at the ford dealer but irrationality got the better of me - in my head i was thinking 'this guy is a total ***** who isn't willing to neg. on the price, i'm not handing any cash over to him' - this happened 3 times to be exact at Ford dealers and also at 1 toyota dealer and 1 suzuki dealer by that time i was so miffed at the whole car purchasing process that when I only had to pay 990 for onroads at the next Toyota dealer i bought the Yaris.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by AS_Telstar_Man

That's cool - everybody is entitled to their own choice. I got burnt buying a used Peugeot once so I'm really wary of idiot car dealers now and euro cars as well. I mean I was seconds away from picking up a pen and signing at the ford dealer but irrationality got the better of me - in my head i was thinking 'this guy is a total ***** who isn't willing to neg. on the price, i'm not handing any cash over to him' - this happened 3 times to be exact at Ford dealers and also at 1 toyota dealer and 1 suzuki dealer by that time i was so miffed at the whole car purchasing process that when I only had to pay 990 for onroads at the next Toyota dealer i bought the Yaris.

Yes quite often car dealers tend to give the impression that they are doing you a favour selling you the car. I cant say I was impressed with the 2 ford dealers in Wollongong (both owned by the one company as well). They even had the gall to say after sale that I would get a questionaire in the mail from ford and to please tick completely satisfied. They lost my respect totally after that.

I still bought the Fiesta though, because it was head and shoulders better (driving wise) than all the others that I had driven. I drove Jazz, Yaris, Swift and Colt. So in the end Ford got my business because of the Car, not because of the dealer. They couldn't even put the Fiesta floor mats in correctly, the rear ones were on the wrong sides, difficult to accomplish that when they are tailor made to fit exactly.

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by Imolator

Yes quite often car dealers tend to give the impression that they are doing you a favour selling you the car. I cant say I was impressed with the 2 ford dealers in Wollongong (both owned by the one company as well). They even had the gall to say after sale that I would get a questionaire in the mail from ford and to please tick completely satisfied. They lost my respect totally after that.

I still bought the Fiesta though, because it was head and shoulders better (driving wise) than all the others that I had driven. I drove Jazz, Yaris, Swift and Colt. So in the end Ford got my business because of the Car, not because of the dealer. They couldn't even put the Fiesta floor mats in correctly, the rear ones were on the wrong sides, difficult to accomplish that when they are tailor made to fit exactly.

I'd have to agree with you there. I bought the Fiesta on it's merits, not the dealers. I went to three Ford Dealers in total, and all treated me as a child (and my parents!). Then, the last dealer came up with a good price, but mucked up the whole pre-delivery process. He couldn't meet with the agreed delivery date, then gave me the wrong car the first time! Nevertheless, I got the Fiesta and was very satisfied with it.

I ended up servicing it at another dealer (with whom I had looked at purchasing the car before hand) and now know the guys pretty well (hell, they loved the spin in the Clio :monkes: ). Will more then likely purchase my XR5T off them, provided I get one!

[melbzetec]

Originally Posted by Steffo

That's the biggest bunch of.........

Try a VW Polo 1.4 ($16,990) on, sit in it, feel the interior and then tell me about corner and cost cutting. I guarantee it will put any Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc to complete shame. .

I think you're getting just a wee bit excited here. I'll agree on the Toyota and Nissan, but I don't think you've had a good look at Hondas recently. The quality of the interiors in terms of materials, fit, finish, and ergonomic design, is outstanding (declaration: I do some work for Honda, but therefore also quite familiar with what they offer)

Making grandiose statements weakens your argument, not strengthens it

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by AS_Telstar_Man

I was talking about Fords marketing and Fords compared to a Toyota - at no point did I mention the Polo. You paid 26k in 2001 money to put a Volkswagen Polo on the road, no doubt with the bigger engine and all the fruit - if I paid 26k for a car that size it better be bloody well built as well! There were no Jap cars that size more expensive than the Polo at the time.

Can't compare a 26k 2001 polo with an 16990 2006 polo either. Your one was built in Germany, the new South African sourced Polos/Golfs...they might use nice materials but believe me they don't make 'em like they used to anymore. I had one mate who had an A3 and moved to the latest diesel 110kW Golf - not impressed with the interior/general quality. Another mate who doesn't wanna upgrade from the previous Golf to the latest one cos the previous German made Golfs had better interiors. But the South African argument is for another time - u better hope they don't start sourcing their Polo hatches from China soon.

As for resale values - here's some real facts:

2001 5 door 5 sp manual cars with the smallest donk you can get.

Polo: http://www.redbookasiapacific.com/au...p?key=VOLK01AV
Echo: http://www.redbookasiapacific.com/au...p?key=TOYO01CS

Echo wins on a percentage basis. Fiesta has only been out since 04 so I'll have to wait until 09 to do the 5 year thing with a Fiesta.

If you drive a Prius and any other Fiesta/Polo/Yaris/Jazz/Swift on the highway, the non-hybrids will beat the Prius in fuel economy - this is a known fact. Prius weighs 300kg more and the petrol 1.5litre has to remain running on the highway. Actually, I never saw the point of buying a 30k+ hybrid in the first place as the hybrid uses the same amount of petrol as a 17k econobox. If you need to drive, the kindest thing you can do for the environment and your wallet is to buy a 17k econobox cos it takes less resources to build than a hybrid and will have a longer operating life than a hybrid. Hybrids are useful only if they're big like the GS450H or whatever it is - giving you heaps of big luxury car performance at 11l/100km.

My previous post got me thinking though - Holden has buggered up as well - they were onto a good thing when they were doing the whole segregated 'Local importer of Opel || Commodore Factory' image before they flushed it all down the toilet in favour of badge engineering daewoos. Ford should be pushing harder with that - trying to split its Ford of Europe products from everything else. They weren't helped when ACA did a 'lemon car' article and one of the cars was a Focus LX :(

The current 16,990 Polo is basically the 26k on-road 01 Polo. Same engine (at that time there was only one engine - 55kW 1.4 16V, which is 59kW in the 06 model), same gearboxes etc etc. The Polo we had was not built in Germany, it was built in Spain. So is the current model. The Golf is made in South Africa, the Polo Sedan in China, the TDI and GTI in Germany. The rest of them are made in Spain. The Fiesta actually does rival the Polo we had for interior feel & quality, and outright quality, which is the impressive thing about it.

As for the Golfs made in South Africa, no problems with our Golf 2.0 FSI, or my best mate's parents 2.0 FSI (both 2006), or the 2.0 FSI Sportline another friend of ours had last year. Our FSI and my mate's parents one are averaging 7.5L/100km. That's what my lighter, smaller, manual Fiesta does (the Golfs are both 6spd automatics).

As for the Redbook prices, don't trust that too much. Like I said, our Polo traded for 12k. According to Redbook that's higher then the highest average private sale price... but if you pay attention to some used car prices, that's not exactly the case. Ours was automatic, that was the only major difference you could get in 2001, there was really only one Polo at the time.

I agree that Holden's stuffed up big time. The Barina name has been completley destroyed. The flop that was the Adventra was more likely then not a better car then this new Daewoo 4WD they're getting. They're having trouble moving the new TK Barina stock. Look at some dealerships and how cheap you can get a new one, its scary. I've seen them advertised for as low as $9000. Brand new, 0km. That must be painful.

[Teki04]

You traded your Polo at a VW dealership.

Enough said.

They can't move TK Barina stock? Might be an oversupply, but they are selling in large numbers! Especially the 3drs with alloy and bodykit pack.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by melbzetec

I think you're getting just a wee bit excited here. I'll agree on the Toyota and Nissan, but I don't think you've had a good look at Hondas recently. The quality of the interiors in terms of materials, fit, finish, and ergonomic design, is outstanding (declaration: I do some work for Honda, but therefore also quite familiar with what they offer)

Making grandiose statements weakens your argument, not strengthens it

I was with my best friend when he & his dad test drove a new Honda Jazz before buying the car he has now (2004 Renault Clio 1.6 Privilege). His dad, who's into cars, and has been for 40 years, said it was the worst car he had ever driven. I got the displeasure of sampling it too. It felt cheap, flimsy, was dull, the seats were horrible, the back seat was especially bad, it sounded bad, they look bad, must I go on?

Some of the interiors (Accord Euro) do look great... until I touched them. I was also disappointed at the S2000 being designed for 5'5 people only, seemingly. I'm 6'2" and couldn't sit in it. My left leg was stuck against the dash, making it impossible to use the clutch.

Honda has one of those great things called an overrated and/or misguided reputation in this country which isn't shared in some other parts of the world. I don't know how well it works for them saleswise, but I wouldn't lay a cent down towards one.

Based on my experience the only two Japanese makes I would put a dollar towards buying a car from would be Subaru or Mazda.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Teki04

You traded your Polo at a VW dealership.

Enough said.

They can't move TK Barina stock? Might be an oversupply, but they are selling in large numbers! Especially the 3drs with alloy and bodykit pack.

They might sell them, but they're going at under RRP.

And as for selling the Polo to VW... they still have to sell it themselves, and make money on it. They wouldn't trade it for something they can't make money on top of.

[Teki04]

Big call Steffo.

That might be your thoughts,

But I have family friends with an Accord Euro and Honda Jazz. Both have very high standards of quality and features. Not only that, but they feel extremely solid. Sure, the driving dynamics of the Jazz aren't like the Fiesta, but maybe they have different target markets? Sure didn't bother my family friend, as she just needed a city runabout. The CVT auto is also the best in it's class.

As for the Accord Euro, performance and dynamics are high up there! I'd recommend them to anyone after a medium sized sedan.

Also, Mazda aren't that great. They sell in large numbers though, which is great! Sure, I do agree they have great value for money, but the dash isn't anything to rave about, and neither is the dynamics. I drove one the other day (manual Maxx Sport) for a whole day, and it didn't impress me as much as the Fiesta. It really made me rush back to work to get back into my car!

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by Steffo

And as for selling the Polo to VW... they still have to sell it themselves, and make money on it. They wouldn't trade it for something they can't make money on top of.

Um, yes true. But they don't have to use a wholesaler as they can just leave it on their own lot (in the used car section!)

Hence, they don't have to give the middle man (wholesaler) his share of the price!

[Ives]

As far as quality goes, I car-pooled with a lady to work the other day... she drives a 2-week old Accord Euro. I gotta say I'm pretty impressed with the quality of the interior. However i dont like the styling that much.

[Lagom]

Originally Posted by HyperKid

As far as quality goes, I car-pooled with a lady to work the other day... she drives a 2-week old Accord Euro. I gotta say I'm pretty impressed with the quality of the interior.

Very good showroom appeal.

I can't think of any current Fords that have really nice interiors in terms of craftmanship. The design is good, in the case of Territory, very good, but let down by cheapened execution. Ugly grains, hard shiny plastics and large inconsistent panel fit/gaps.

A real pity, because people won't understand great driving dynamics if they are put of by the car looking and feeling cheap.

Fiesta's interior is fairly competitive craftsmanship wise. Some lousy materials there though.

Originally Posted by HyperKid

However i dont like the styling that much.

It's conservative smart. For the target market, just what they need to look respectable in the carpark.

[Ives]

Originally Posted by Lagom

Fiesta's interior is fairly competitive craftsmanship wise. Some lousy materials there though.

Yeah I won't say that Fiesta's interior is "Holy sh!t, check this out!". There are some cars that have similar or higher quality interior and there are some that have much crappier interior than the Fiesta. I reckon Fiesta's interior is between OK to best.

[AS_Telstar_Man]

Wow - impressive thread - you guys aren't westie XF falcon lovers (I wanna buy one for laughs), we can actually make some big calls without degenerating into a slanging match. Top stuff, much respect.

Agreed on Mazda quality not being no.1 - mechanic told me that since the curvy 626 of the early 90s, Mazda lost the plot with building cars that go the distance, now they're all about showroom appeal only. I can attest to that with the AS Telstar's mazda engine outlasting everything else on the car, the dang interior and exterior panels were just rotting away in the weather and when I found rust on the chassis rail that was the last straw. Pity about that - I loved that car, I hope somebody found use for that engine, it had at least 150,000km left in it.

Agreed with Steffo on Honda - nice cars but they're made for people who want to feel like they're driving a prestige car when they paid less for their Accord than what a new base-Commodore costs. Honda is an example of marketing gone well - minimal discounting required and no fleet sales really helped their cause.

And Fords have minimal showroom appeal - that's true. I drove the Focus CL as well and I was amazed by the handling, its the sweetest handling FWD I've ever driven- but having rocked up to the Ford dealer in my retiree parents AH Astra (rocking up to showrooms in a bomb is a big mistake cos all cars feel nice compared to the Telstar) the Focus CL felt way cheap - I actually preferred the Fiesta LX over the Focus even the Focus LX.

[Lagom]

Originally Posted by HyperKid

Yeah I won't say that Fiesta's interior is "Holy sh!t, check this out!". There are some cars that have similar or higher quality interior and there are some that have much crappier interior than the Fiesta. I reckon Fiesta's interior is between OK to best.

The new dash is much improved, but the door plastics are pretty lousy. In this class of car, expectations are much lower as you're paying a lot less for a car. When you're talking $40k for a Falcon, suddenly the competitive set is a whole new world.

VW Polo would get my pick for interior quality, I'd say the Jazz is pretty reasonable too.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Lagom

The new dash is much improved, but the door plastics are pretty lousy. In this class of car, expectations are much lower as you're paying a lot less for a car. When you're talking $40k for a Falcon, suddenly the competitive set is a whole new world.

VW Polo would get my pick for interior quality, I'd say the Jazz is pretty reasonable too.

I'd have to agree the Jazz interior is quite good on the eye, but the dash whilst looking good is rock hard. The steering is computer arcade in feel, quite strange actually and the rear suspension in particular is just too firm with not enough travel. I heard it complaining over speed humps on my test drive with corresponding creaks from the rear. The Fiesta took the same humps without complaint. The Jazz great flexibility especially the magic seats and boot are fantastic. Great fit and finish, much better the Fez, but drivablility was dismal. They are not worth what honda are asking for them, more so now that they are built in thailand.

[Lagom]

Originally Posted by Imolator

I'd have to agree the Jazz interior is quite good on the eye, but the dash whilst looking good is rock hard.

The look good, but feel hard is starting to become more common - VW Passat has this as well. However, my view is that seeing I don't touch the dashboard much, but look at it all the time, I'd rather the manufacturer put soft touch materials in the areas I am in regular contact. Eg. door grab handles, various buttons, etc.

Originally Posted by Imolator

The steering is computer arcade in feel, quite strange actually and the rear suspension in particular is just too firm with not enough travel. I heard it complaining over speed humps on my test drive with corresponding creaks from the rear. The Fiesta took the same humps without complaint. The Jazz great flexibility especially the magic seats and boot are fantastic. Great fit and finish, much better the Fez, but drivablility was dismal. They are not worth what honda are asking for them, more so now that they are built in thailand.

I'd personally buy a Fiesta in my personal situation, but I see why people buy Jazzes. Nothing can touch them for roominess inside, they're well built and have better NVH refinement than the Fiesta.

Agree on the steering. It has this synthetic feel, never quite feels right. Extremely light at parking speed.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Lagom

The look good, but feel hard is starting to become more common - VW Passat has this as well. However, my view is that seeing I don't touch the dashboard much, but look at it all the time, I'd rather the manufacturer put soft touch materials in the areas I am in regular contact. Eg. door grab handles, various buttons, etc.



I'd personally buy a Fiesta in my personal situation, but I see why people buy Jazzes. Nothing can touch them for roominess inside, they're well built and have better NVH refinement than the Fiesta.

Agree on the steering. It has this synthetic feel, never quite feels right. Extremely light at parking speed.

Yes I can see why a lot of people buy them, build quality and the Honda name being 2 big reasons. As well as the absolute best luggage/seating flexibility going . The honda engine was inaudible at idle, but I think there is very little in the NVH side of things once on the move between the Jazz and Fez (WQ model). Especially in the WQ after all the Aussie NVH treatments designed for the Indian Fez were applied. Having driven WP and WQ I can say that the WQ is a big improvement over the old one (NVH wise).

[melbzetec]

Originally Posted by Imolator

They are not worth what honda are asking for them, more so now that they are built in thailand.

$15,990 with air???? Doesn't seem a lot to ask. And every journo in the country has highlighted how good the Honda build quality is out of Thailand.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by melbzetec

$15,990 with air???? Doesn't seem a lot to ask. And every journo in the country has highlighted how good the Honda build quality is out of Thailand.

I have read a review of the new Civic that highlighted build quality issues with the cars they tested from Thailand (Australian New Car Buyer), and that was backed up by another Aussie internet review I read.) And the price is cheap now because Honda doesn't have to pay any duty on the cars whereas previously they did from Japan.

And have you driven the 1.3ltr entry level jazz, its gutless, and only sits on skinny 175/65 r14 tyres and rims. My God even the VTI sits on the same cheap crap tyres. And the Jazz Vti is the model they sell the most of and it is a $20,990 on the road proposition, which is hardly cheap. You can get a Ford Focus CL for that when they are on special. And I Know which one I would consider good value for the money.

[Lagom]

Originally Posted by Imolator

I have read a review of the new Civic that highlighted build quality issues with the cars they tested from Thailand (Australian New Car Buyer), and that was backed up by another Aussie internet review I read.) And the price is cheap now because Honda doesn't have to pay any duty on the cars whereas previously they did from Japan.

I'd have no hesitation buying a Honda built in Thailand and I'm pretty finicky about craftsmanship.

One of Honda's brand pillars in the eyes of many is quality - they can't afford to sacrifice that. Are Thais less capable than the Japanese of assembling cars together properly, I'd say not.

As long as the right processes and systems are in place, country of build isn't an issue in my eyes.

Originally Posted by Imolator

And have you driven the 1.3ltr entry level jazz, its gutless, and only sits on skinny 175/65 r14 tyres and rims. My God even the VTI sits on the same cheap crap tyres. And the Jazz Vti is the model they sell the most of and it is a $20,990 on the road proposition, which is hardly cheap. You can get a Ford Focus CL for that when they are on special. And I Know which one I would consider good value for the money.

I wouldn't buy either The CL feels amazingly povo pack inside and the Jazz isn't my style of car.

To be fair, there's a difference in equipment levels between a VTI and a CL.

[Lagom]

Originally Posted by Imolator

The honda engine was inaudible at idle, but I think there is very little in the NVH side of things once on the move between the Jazz and Fez (WQ model). Especially in the WQ after all the Aussie NVH treatments designed for the Indian Fez were applied. Having driven WP and WQ I can say that the WQ is a big improvement over the old one (NVH wise).

I'd still say that in terms of the drive, the Fiesta's NVH is still its weak point. NVH is what most people will probably notice before fantastic handling.

The engine is pretty gravelly in ordinary driving, but does sound nice in a little sporty way once you get past 5000+ rpm. Road noise is another issue.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Lagom

I'd still say that in terms of the drive, the Fiesta's NVH is still its weak point. NVH is what most people will probably notice before fantastic handling.

The engine is pretty gravelly in ordinary driving, but does sound nice in a little sporty way once you get past 5000+ rpm. Road noise is another issue.

I noticed that in the WQ Fez that I test drove, and asked the Sales guy if it was running on 91ron, it was. When I picked up my fez it was gravelly as well, but after filling up with Vortex98 and the computer learning the new fuel that roughness all but disappeared. Ford are idiots, if I was running a dealership I would make sure the Fez had at least a premium fuel, after all that is what they were designed to run on, and its the fuel that they give their best on.

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by Imolator

I noticed that in the WQ Fez that I test drove, and asked the Sales guy if it was running on 91ron, it was. When I picked up my fez it was gravelly as well, but after filling up with Vortex98 and the computer learning the new fuel that roughness all but disappeared. Ford are idiots, if I was running a dealership I would make sure the Fez had at least a premium fuel, after all that is what they were designed to run on, and its the fuel that they give their best on.

I'd have to agree with Lagom though, the Fiesta's engine is quite loud, but it's something that WE like to hear :

Doesn't mean other people (older) are looking for that same noise though :

[Ives]

Originally Posted by Imolator

I noticed that in the WQ Fez that I test drove, and asked the Sales guy if it was running on 91ron, it was. When I picked up my fez it was gravelly as well, but after filling up with Vortex98.......

I found that out too. The engine sounded and felt coarse when I drove it out of the dealer. I wasnt panicking since I'm 100.6% sure that the just put in ULP. When it was time for me to fill-up, I used, at the time, Shell Optimax and she ran beautifully instantly!
Then 3000-km service arrived, I asked them to put in Castrol EDGE 5W-30 and new oil filter..... NVH was further improved.