Oil Pump Gears / Un-Opened ??

[XA-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Chris

i dont think its important Cam, if it is, and people agree that it is OK to remove chains to do the pump, then the new record my friend is an 11.90, as im sure when people put the chains back on they wont be putting 4 dial indicators on the valvetrain to make sure it was put back where ford had it.

this is a genuine question .. do ford actually specify the cam timing so it can be put back to factory .. with 3 degrees of course py:

[hot460]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

I agree with Alex, it's a concession thats needed as the gears hardly rate in a standard Boss.
At some stage everyone well need to change them.

Opened is Opened!
My car has mods and has done 200,000klms in just over 2years.
180 passes down the track and more hrs on the dyno than I want to remember. Still no oil pump gears,(touch wood) and definatly unopened.

We really dont need to go down the same track as the LS1 brigade and make it all too obscure. :
Keep it simple. Change pump gears= Opened
Bolt ons only= unopened

[Chris]

dude, they just do them up with a rattle gun - closing the lobes up and then knowing what to do with the tune does yield power. Not like a "all lobes on one cam", an LS1, windsor or Clevo cam would need to be reground to achieve the same result, with the boss, its just smart tuning and careful spanner play.

If this goes ahead, we will see a 10 sec 120mph NA Boss. You guys make the rules, i'll see you guys on the blacktop, Jeff, I'll bring the donuts............, Cam tell judy we need zingers all round........................................

[Chris]

anyway dudes, check yers later, im turning the dyno off and going home to bed, its knockoff time.

peace out play nice.

[XA-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Chris

dude, they just do them up with a rattle gun - closing the lobes up and then knowing what to do with the tune does yield power. Not like a "all lobes on one cam", an LS1, windsor or Clevo cam would need to be reground to achieve the same result, with the boss, its just smart tuning and careful spanner play.

If this goes ahead, we will see a 10 sec 120mph NA Boss. You guys make the rules, i'll see you guys on the blacktop, Jeff, I'll bring the donuts............, Cam tell judy we need zingers all round........................................

I actually am starting to think that is you replace the gears .. it's opened. You can replace the crank and rods and get no more power but a heap of reliability.....

As for the donuts .. I'm there !!!!

[Matt_J]

Originally Posted by ORSMXR

Well mate like l said in the pm G&D are new using the edit so thats were the real power came from, but l am sure they will get the hang of it at some stage.And as of evidence it's at the track.Mate l myself don't have a problem with G&D as l have been down there a few times myself.

You do now. :

Originally Posted by ORSMXR

Now back to topic.

The smartest thing ive heard you say. :togo:

I'll follow your lead on this...

The fact of the matter is this, the engine has an issue that can lead to a pre-mature failure, replacement of the oil pump gears will fix this issue, this will allow more guys the liberty of racing reliably at the track (and isnt this what we all want?), removal and replacement of a timing chain will not increase or alter power, the cam gear sprocket placement will have less to do with track performance than the differance of having one taco or two the night before or if you had a dump just before racing!!

Get real.

The valve spring issue is another example of a problem within a standard engine. This problem is easily rectified by replacment of the rubber valve springs with some metal ones. This is not rocket science, the only gain you get in performance is the re-gain of the performance lost to soft valve springs. The issue with the ford Boss engine is a little more serious, it wont be a small loss of power, it will be a loss of engine. As i said, get real.

[SLY XR8]

Premature failer i find that hard to belive.


due to 100000K's and 200 run's down the strip and not one bolt has been cracked.

ls'1 rule's are dumb you open it to change valve springs it's opened

Same should be for the ford open it to change the oil pump gears its opened

BLACK AND WHITE.........

My opinion. And were all allowed to have one.

[Matt_J]

Originally Posted by SLY XR8

Premature failer i find that hard to belive.


due to 100000K's and 200 run's down the strip and not one bolt has been cracked.

ls'1 rule's are dumb you open it to change valve springs it's opened

Same should be for the ford open it to change the oil pump gears its opened

BLACK AND WHITE.........

My opinion. And were all allowed to have one.

Ok, you got your opinion, but please explain to me why you think its dumb? please dont come back with "cause you undid va bolts and its open now" give me an intelligent reason as to why you think that replacing the oil pump gears is not valid.

There have been numerous cases of broken oil pump gears, i bet you there has been alot more broken than you hear of on here as these guys dont want to be questioned.

I have offered my reasons why i think it should be allowed, if it is done honestly it will offer no performance improvement. Maybe thats the point...

Either way it goes, it does not stop anyone from lying about what has or has not been done as we have all seen before, some still claim records based on B.S.

I have laid out the facts as to why the LS1 valve spring rule was implemented so i need say no more.

[Xtreme F6]

Silly arqument really, LS1's that have springs replaced shouldnt be classed as unopened. PPL can argue as much as they like that its been proven they are weak and arent really upto drag racing and need to be replaced but its getting an aftermarket part fitted.. its opened.

As for oil pump gears. Well same thing, i believe its opened. Its to much shades of grey cos ppl change the rules to suit themselves.

Making an unopened class for an engine and then allowing it to be opened cos they cant go faster then a certain time is bending the rules no mater how you look at it. Unopened is unopened. Changing a rockercover gasket is unopened, WHile you have it off and then changing compnents is opened.

hahah

[gtfpv]

an air filter can increase performance yet be called unopened . same as a throttle body . these gears can be replaced with billits . not necessarily increasing performance yet be called opened ? . but if timimg of cams can be altered without deliberate adjustments then i see both sides . very confusing one this . i would say if the engine is a bog stock with no bolt ons whatsoever and the gears are changed it is unopened. but if there are boltons and then the gears are changed it would be deemed opened. but man i would not put money on it .

[Matt_J]

Originally Posted by Xtreme F6

Silly arqument really, LS1's that have springs replaced shouldnt be classed as unopened. PPL can argue as much as they like that its been proven they are weak and arent really upto drag racing and need to be replaced but its getting an aftermarket part fitted.. its opened.

As for oil pump gears. Well same thing, i believe its opened. Its to much shades of grey cos ppl change the rules to suit themselves.

Making an unopened class for an engine and then allowing it to be opened cos they cant go faster then a certain time is bending the rules no mater how you look at it. Unopened is unopened. Changing a rockercover gasket is unopened, WHile you have it off and then changing compnents is opened.

hahah

Again you have your opinion, however id like a further explaination as to why you think removing a suspect part from an engine, replacing it with a reliable part the offers no performance advantage is wrong.

[Xtreme F6]

Originally Posted by Matt @ G&D

Again you have your opinion, however id like a further explaination as to why you think removing a suspect part from an engine, replacing it with a reliable part the offers no performance advantage is wrong.

hrmm...Billet oil pump gears mean you can rev it higher without fear, Thats a performance advantage isnt it? _2:


bit like changing springs on a LS1 is not a performance advantage..... : lol

You had to open the engine and remove a piece and replace it with a stronger piece.. no longer stock..... it was opened... I cant really see whats so hard about that

[SpoolMan]

Automatic transmission would fall into the same category then, how many good numbers would we see with stock internals in our automatic transmissions?
Auto's don't make power just allow you to use the full potential of your power time and time again.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The Class we should have is, ''your own class''.
list your times (& slips) and your mods, at the end of the day its up to everyones honesty anyway.

[CAMS290]

Originally Posted by Xtreme F6

hrmm...Billet oil pump gears mean you can rev it higher without fear, Thats a performance advantage isnt it? _2:

Unlike the LS1, which has weak valve springs that cause valve float at high revs, the Boss motors do have a problem with oil pump gears breaking, it is NOT a performance issue, it is a RELIABILITY issue !!

I am not going to wait and see what happens, because i know what is going to happen, my bad luck, 1 ИИИИed motor, cop it on the chin because of a set of $600 oil pump gears, i dont think so !!!

Lets go out and have some fun, and to those of you with the standard gears, have fun clenching your a$$ cheeks together waiting for the standard gears to fail. :

[dute]

After reading all the posts in this thread, I still amazed that people cop so much C R A P from others who think they know it all,

And I’m not saying that I know it all (that’s for sure) as I don’t.

If someone has an opinion well that is there opinion why do others just keep sticking the knife in there back?

They must think it’s so much fun to see their name on the forum giving crap to the mere mortals.


Keep to the topic

[MYV8]

Originally Posted by Xtreme F6

hrmm...Billet oil pump gears mean you can rev it higher without fear, Thats a performance advantage isnt it? _2:

I have to agree with Simon.
If I had billet gears I would feel a lot more comfortable revving the ute out a bit more instead of letting off for fear of doing the pump gears.
In that sense to me it is definately a performance issue.
Also, surely if the part is aftermarket and inside the engine it should be classed as opened.

[SLY XR8]

Matt its like this i see it as you buy the car you know what its like.

You carn't open it and change some part in it because you dont think it's not strong enough and then clam the thing is unopened.

Come on matt i'm no engine builder but if you change valves carn't you make gains over someone that hasn't.....
Changing parts from a standard product to performane product....


It a opion thats what forums are about..

[X ORSMXR]

Now that l have sat back and read a few posts l think Simon has hit the nail on the head, as l think now that the gears are a reliability issue as well as a performance gain as the gears take away the fear to rev the engine past the factory limiter so therefore l would call it opened. As the gears won't break if you stay under the limiter and don't run underdrives.

[ridefox]

I think we all just need to get over this opened and unopened BS it dont matter what we do people are still going to lie about it and there just kiding them selfs.

When it comes to dragracing there only one thing you want to do and thats get to the other side of the track as fast as you can.

What happen to the days of

RUN WHAT YA BRUNG AND HOPE YOU BRUNG ENOUGH!!!

[Laminge]

A very wise man ridefox!