Tattoo's, Opinions....

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

I is got two dragons blowing flaming snot across my man boobs because only one dragon would leave me with a cold lonely man boob.... personal choice live it and love it and your mum may belt you over the head for being a tattooed DH.... she will get over it and still love you though and that is ALL that counts...

My mum just shook her head, my old man smacked me over the head.

Its funny but, my 15 yr old asked to get his ear pierced when he was 13. I told him it was his ear and up to him, but said come here. I grabbed his earlobe hard enough to hurt but not cauliflower it and said still want it done. Nope.

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Bugger discrimination, I'm in a service based industry and there is no way I would hire anybody who has tatts all over them (visible ones I mean). Like it or lump it, some people do have a certain mindset and even if it is not accurate it is still something you have to take into account.

i interviewed today with a large company in our chosen field, the person interviewing me had tattoos as well so it set my mind at ease, because as you might know i have both sleeves done.

i was totally aware that we work in a service industry when i decided to get more work done on my arms and i always knew there would be some people out there who would not approve. however, as long as they arent blatantly obscene (swear words etc) i dont see the problem.

on the job front, they chased me, offered me the job on the spot, didnt interview anyone else, all the while knowing i have tattoos. maybe the stigma about tattooed people is disappearing?

i will add though.... if i were in a position of hiring someone as you are, and there were 2 applicants, same experience, same skills, same qualifications, one tattooed like me and one without tattoos, i would take the cleanskin for the reason you stated, some people just dont want people who look like me in their home

[trippytaka]

Originally Posted by XR6_661

Old Codger. You're in new worlds now =P

You can see my tribal through my work uniform (white long sleeved shirt)
My lip is pierced (spike) and so is my eyebrow (2 spikes)...

Work have no problems with it....I look a damn sight more professional and tidier than a majority of people you see at their place of work.

Understood... I guess I just am a bit old fashioned. I mean I work in creative industry where the designers and shooters dress and look how they want, unless they are shooting a corporte function and even my gf has tatts. :( maybe I should get a big zimmer frame on my back. LOL!

Nah, to be honest, I have been thinking about getting a tatt of my dad's signature on my bicep (small - the tatt, not the bicep... cue crickets and a tumbleweed for that solid dad joke). Dad died a while ago and I have been weighing it up for about 4 years. Yep, I'mn a real snap decision maker.

[Iggypoppin']

Originally Posted by castellan

I can't understand why people would want tattoos, nose rings, pink hair ect.
Some sort of mental problem or inferiority complex i think.
A bloke with tattoos do they think they are tuff?
A woman with tattoos

That's a very naive comment. Like I said before, tattoos don't turn a person into a thug or some violent human. It's generalization and prejudice that annoy me, I got my work done because it was something that meant a lot to me, not because I am some "tuff guy looking for a brawl". I do know the people you mean, but trust me, it's becoming less common depending where you look.

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by Iggypoppin'

That's a very naive comment. Like I said before, tattoos don't turn a person into a thug or some violent human. It's generalization and prejudice that annoy me, I got my work done because it was something that meant a lot to me, not because I am some "tuff guy looking for a brawl". I do know the people you mean, but trust me, it's becoming less common depending where you look.

im with you Iggy, theres nothing tough about my tatts, i actually have a mermaid that goes the whole length of my arm..... real tough

[PHANTMXR6]

For all the guys with tatts commenting on here, we don't need to justify it to the non tattooed folk. We did it for our own reasons.

Got nothing to do with anyone else.

[04redxr8]

I have no tatts. But half of the guys I have employed in the past have had tatts, the other half haven't. I really can't notice any difference between them.

I think everyone needs to remember it is all about personal choice. I like my ability to make my own choices. It seems though in this day and age that that ability is becoming less and less. By discriminating against people with tattoos, we are actually trying in a way to remove others ability to make their own choices.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

I have no tatts. But half of the guys I have employed in the past have had tatts, the other half haven't. I really can't notice any difference between them.

I think everyone needs to remember it is all about personal choice. I like my ability to make my own choices. It seems though in this day and age that that ability is becoming less and less. By discriminating against people with tattoos, we are actually trying in a way to remove others ability to make their own choices.

Thats an over simplification.

If you run a workshop, tats are probably not an issue. Same would go for most things, I couldnt give a rats if someone has tats.

If you for example fit alarm systems to multi-million dollar mansions, some customers may not appreciate the installer being a tattoed hairy motorcyclist. The motorcyclist may actually do a better job and not have any plans to do anything but the best job he can, but the sense of security the home owner feels may be compromised. It may be petty, or paranoid, but it is a reality the business owner must consider. Not the risk the motorcyclist is an evil person, but that customers may not choose his business because of his hiring practices.

As I said earlier, its a bit much to ask a person who has put their assets on the line to run a business, to risk them further in dispelling myths. Business is about more than delivering the goods, sometimes there is more to customer satisfaction than job well done.

[MNM96]

I love this comment!

michael j of brisbane Posted at 10:28 AM November 19, 2010

tatts are fun,about the only thing in life you can keep forever without losing them baring accidents on bituman,and the pain is part of the attration its like hitting your thumb with a hammer after a while its quite stimulating my tats some 35years old have faded a bit but they still have meaning to me it was fun getting them,,by the way you are the first shiela i have everheard of that admits not understanding something,,keep up the good work.

[PHANTMXR6]

Originally Posted by fmc351

If you for example fit alarm systems to multi-million dollar mansions, some customers may not appreciate the installer being a tattoed hairy motorcyclist. The motorcyclist may actually do a better job and not have any plans to do anything but the best job he can, but the sense of security the home owner feels may be compromised. It may be petty, or paranoid, but it is a reality the business owner must consider. Not the risk the motorcyclist is an evil person, but that customers may not choose his business because of his hiring practices.

Why is it that people always relate tattoos with hairy motorcyclists?
This is going a bit far I think.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by PHANTMXR6

Why is it that people always relate tattoos with hairy motorcyclists?
This is going a bit far I think.

I dont. I have tats, I ride, Im not hairy.

I used it as an example to demonstrate a point. Forcing or expecting an employer to hire someone with visible tats in some situations is not right. It may harm their business from a public perception point of view. I acknowledge that this does not reflect the ability of a person with tats to do the job itself. I just accept there are times where that will understandably work against you if for example you have **** across your knuckles.

It is not a lot different from male strippers. They have a place in some businesses, but I wouldnt attend a bucks night like that.

But you have demonstrated the point, yet seem to have missed its application. People do associate certain attributes with certain people or behaviours. And that is the point, that perception could cost the the business owner clients. Why should the business owner be forced to risk his business to dispel that myth. A myth the tattooed person was well aware of when they chose to be tattooed?

[TheSneakiness]

I have a large tribal on my upper right arm of my initials (needs another going over and maybe an addition to it to be completed) and I work in IT/construction, so being office based it's probably not (according to stigma) the best industry to have a showing tattoo in. The only time you can see it is if I lift my arm up and my sleeve rolls towards my armpit.

Funnily enough on Gold Coast radio recently there has been a mob advertising tattoo removals. I wonder if what has been mentioned here with regretting getting one done warrants the radio ads?

EDIT - I'm also in the works of designing another tattoo to represent my son so it's not like I hate the things, otherwise I wouldn't do it to myself.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Iggypoppin'

That's a very naive comment. Like I said before, tattoos don't turn a person into a thug or some violent human. It's generalization and prejudice that annoy me, I got my work done because it was something that meant a lot to me, not because I am some "tuff guy looking for a brawl". I do know the people you mean, but trust me, it's becoming less common depending where you look.

Naive is naive, once it's done you can't wash it off.
Prejudice is prejudice, it does not mean it's wrong to be prejudice.
I never said anything about thug or violent but i do think some may use it as a image boost.
I am mainly thinking of young kids exposed to trendy nonsense that they will regret down the track.
I am not on about adults with tatts.

[Envi XR8]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Depends on your clientèle. I dont think the first sentence of your your second paragraph is correct. Most sensible people would hire the guy with the tats, but in reality would simply seek an alternative that had neither the poor attitude or tats showing. There are just some situations where tats also cost you work.

If it helps, I have tats but can cover them easily enough with short sleeves.

That’s fine, you don’t have to agree. The comment was made quite clearly, that there was no way a tattooed person would get the job. I don’t know how else it can be interpreted. Open minds are needed in these situations and in reality, the best candidates would get interviews and be judged on those abilities and attributes that got them the interview in the first place.

I used to work in the motor trade. I had a female trainee. The number of people who would not talk to her has high. Did it stop me hiring another woman in a male dominated industry? No, and why, because she was good at her job. Based on your comment, no auto parts store would hire a female because there is a concern from the customer that she was giving them the right info.

Originally Posted by fmc351

Thats an over simplification.

If you run a workshop, tats are probably not an issue. Same would go for most things, I couldnt give a rats if someone has tats.

If you for example fit alarm systems to multi-million dollar mansions, some customers may not appreciate the installer being a tattoed hairy motorcyclist. The motorcyclist may actually do a better job and not have any plans to do anything but the best job he can, but the sense of security the home owner feels may be compromised. It may be petty, or paranoid, but it is a reality the business owner must consider. Not the risk the motorcyclist is an evil person, but that customers may not choose his business because of his hiring practices.

As I said earlier, its a bit much to ask a person who has put their assets on the line to run a business, to risk them further in dispelling myths. Business is about more than delivering the goods, sometimes there is more to customer satisfaction than job well done.

The person you quoted stated clearly that he could no difference between those employees he had hired that were tattooed and those that were not. Where do we draw the line? Your argument could be leveled at just about anybody who does not conform to the stereotype of what a normal person is accepted to be. If you applied this logic of the possibility of scaring off customers to every search for an employee, by the time you culled out everyone who might be a concern to your customers, the talent pool you would be drawing on would be very small indeed.

At the end of the day, if you are hiring and hire on anything other than talent, experience, or attitude you are discounting the best candidates. Full stop.

In my working life, that goes back 21 years, through a variety of industries, my experience tells me that in the real world, customers only remember a job well done, or a job that was completely stuffed up and the cost. They don’t remember the details. I have never heard someone not recommend a company for job based on employees having tattoos. The concept is out-dated and as I said earlier, the number of tattooed people is increasing every day, so some people better get used to that concept.


**EDIT** just thought of an example close to home for most of us. How many times on this forum, have we all blown up about being labelled hoons because we are car enthusiasts? Is it fair that we should be targeted by the media because there is a preception that we are trouble makers?

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

That’s fine, you don’t have to agree. The comment was made quite clearly, that there was no way a tattooed person would get the job. I don’t know how else it can be interpreted. Open minds are needed in these situations and in reality, the best candidates would get interviews and be judged on those abilities and attributes that got them the interview in the first place.

I used to work in the motor trade. I had a female trainee. The number of people who would not talk to her has high. Did it stop me hiring another woman in a male dominated industry? No, and why, because she was good at her job. Based on your comment, no auto parts store would hire a female because there is a concern from the customer that she was giving them the right info.




The person you quoted stated clearly that he could no difference between those employees he had hired that were tattooed and those that were not. Where do we draw the line? Your argument could be leveled at just about anybody who does not conform to the stereotype of what a normal person is accepted to be. If you applied this logic of the possibility of scaring off customers to every search for an employee, by the time you culled out everyone who might be a concern to your customers, the talent pool you would be drawing on would be very small indeed.

At the end of the day, if you are hiring and hire on anything other than talent, experience, or attitude you are discounting the best candidates. Full stop.

In my working life, that goes back 21 years, through a variety of industries, my experience tells me that in the real world, customers only remember a job well done, or a job that was completely stuffed up and the cost. They don’t remember the details. I have never heard someone not recommend a company for job based on employees having tattoos. The concept is out-dated and as I said earlier, the number of tattooed people is increasing every day, so some people better get used to that concept.

Youre operating in a vacuum. Most industries/professions tats wouldnt matter, but there are exceptions. Based on your logic, if you went to club to see the advertised female stripper, and got a wang in your face, youd only remember the job well done. Id remember not wanting to return to that club, and probably being arrested for assault. Some jobs men arent suited too, and some women arent suited too. Its not a perception, its fact. A guy doesnt make a good female stripper. Then again, there are places for that too.

It is not always the case. I get the auto industry and women connection, and I agree with you. The amount of lost work would be small, and potential gains from female motorists could potentially offset losses if you wanted to take advantage of it. More importantly, they are easily up to the job as well as males. I did give a specific example, one that probably has no offset factor, very high end alarm installs in high end mansions. I agree it is limited, but it still exists. Another example may be a high end store selling goods to a predominantly old Jewish clientele, and the applicant has **** across his knuckles. Or swastikas on his neck. Do you think he is suitable? Yes, he may do the job, may be brilliant at it, but he is offensive to the clients regardless of his manners.

Being a woman isnt a choice (Ok, today it is, but still ), having a tat is a choice.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

**EDIT** just thought of an example close to home for most of us. How many times on this forum, have we all blown up about being labelled hoons because we are car enthusiasts? Is it fair that we should be targeted by the media because there is a preception that we are trouble makers?

You are aware I have said I also have tattoos right? I dont stereotype people with tats, but I do accept there are situations where the choices I, and others make, will be unsuitable and may bite me later in life. I just dont think it is right to expect others to assume, as in take responsibility for, a risk I took.

[Envi XR8]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Youre operating in a vacuum. Most industries/professions tats wouldnt matter, but there are exceptions. Based on your logic, if you went to club to see the advertised female stripper, and got a wang in your face, youd only remember the job well done. Id remember not wanting to return to that club, and probably being arrested for assault. Some jobs men arent suited too, and some women arent suited too. Its not a perception, its fact. A guy doesnt make a good female stripper. Then again, there are places for that too.

I’m operating in a vacuum? LOL You have completely missed my point. I was referencing the thousands of jobs that happen everyday in the average household, retail store or service industry. To use your original example of the high end alarm installation, if that was the service advertised and promoted, and instead they just fitted a new mechanical lock then I would remember that company did not provide me with what I commissioned them to do and then I would not recommend them. That is the point where you lose customers. Not because someone has a tattoo. To use your example of the club, if I went to a club and got something unexpected, I would not return there either based on the club’s false advertising of its services. I think that you are drawing very long bows with your examples and I think you know it. These situations you are using sound like a desperate attempt to validate your point, rather than concede that your statement may not hold the weight you believe it to.

Originally Posted by fmc351

Another example may be a high end store selling goods to a predominantly old Jewish clientele, and the applicant has **** across his knuckles. Or swastikas on his neck. Do you think he is suitable? Yes, he may do the job, may be brilliant at it, but he is offensive to the clients regardless of his manners.

Ok, time for a reality check here, because you have completely gone of the rails with this example. Where to start? Firstly you are also assuming here that employees have no choice where they work. Secondly, do you consider it to be probable that someone who harboured the hate required and held dear the concepts associated with the symbol you referenced enough to have it tattooed on them in plain sight would work in a high end store selling to Jewish customers? And lastly, you are now assuming that your employees and the store owner both know the religious backgrounds of its customers? Oh please! I think I found your obsession with male strippers and ‘wangs’ more probable.

Originally Posted by fmc351

You are aware I have said I also have tattoos right? I dont stereotype people with tats, but I do accept there are situations where the choices I, and others make, will be unsuitable and may bite me later in life. I just dont think it is right to expect others to assume, as in take responsibility for, a risk I took.

I am aware you have tattoos. Anyone getting into a business or running a business spends their entire working day making decisions that have consequences and risks, good and bad. I have been in meetings where manufacturing and warehousing issues, stock outs, backorders, incorrect supply come to light regularly, and it is these type of real issues that cause a customer to look elsewhere, not whether the delivery driver has a tattoo, or the receptionist has a nose ring. Risks, and the decisions that go with them are part of being in business. I am yet to hear a story of someone going broke purely based on employees having tattoos. If a business is so fickle and unstable that employees that have visible tattoos can bring down the whole house of cards, then, your business was in deeper trouble to start with.

let's agree to disagree?

[pottery beige]

I love watching forum tennis......

[v gate]

Discrimination is discrimination. If your worried about tatts then you must be worried about race, gender, sexual orientation, age, hair colour, religion, weight, acsent economic background so on and so on.
If you worry about any of these things and your running the show then there is a pretty good chance your selling your customers short. Always hire the best person for the job. The best is the best and thats all there is to it but if you ask for vanilla you get vanilla.
I will always give the job on merit or word of mouth from people i know. If your unknown then your on trial and if your no good see ya later.
In this day and age if your bangin on about tatts on people you shouldnt be in charge of personel.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

.

let's agree to disagree?

No...

[Envi XR8]

Originally Posted by fmc351

No...

oh ok, so you're going to keep going until I see your way of thinking?? If this is the case, I would have expected a larger response.

Agreeing to disagree means that we both agree that we have different opinions on this issue and that neither of us are going to see the others way of thinking. Generally this statement is used at points like this where a debate is going around in circles, and we are wasting time, energy etc trying to make a point that the other person does not accept.

So I will ask again, shall we agree to disagree?

[Envi XR8]

Originally Posted by v gate

Discrimination is discrimination. If your worried about tatts then you must be worried about race, gender, sexual orientation, age, hair colour, religion, weight, acsent economic background so on and so on.
If you worry about any of these things and your running the show then there is a pretty good chance your selling your customers short. Always hire the best person for the job. The best is the best and thats all there is to it but if you ask for vanilla you get vanilla.
I will always give the job on merit or word of mouth from people i know. If your unknown then your on trial and if your no good see ya later.
In this day and age if your bangin on about tatts on people you shouldnt be in charge of personel.

Spot on. Excellent Post.

[|||]

Originally Posted by v gate

Discrimination is discrimination. If your worried about tatts then you must be worried about race, gender, sexual orientation, age, hair colour, religion, weight, acsent economic background so on and so on.

the difference is that it is fine to discriminate against things people choose. if i have the choice between two applicants for a job & i pick the white guy over the asian guy for no other reason than he's white then that's wrong. there's nothing asian guy can do to change what he is.

if on other hand i choose the guy with the clean cut look over the guy with pink hair, tattoos of his kids names down his arm, & beleives that jesus has returned and is working at his local video store that's fine with me. pink hair guy made all those decisions himself & will have to deal with how people react to them.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

.... If this is the case, I would have expected a larger response.

Even seeing it, you cant see it.

Originally Posted by |||

the difference is that it is fine to discriminate against things people choose. if i have the choice between two applicants for a job & i pick the white guy over the asian guy for no other reason than he's white then that's wrong. there's nothing asian guy can do to change what he is.

if on other hand i choose the guy with the clean cut look over the guy with pink hair, tattoos of his kids names down his arm, & beleives that jesus has returned and is working at his local video store that's fine with me. pink hair guy made all those decisions himself & will have to deal with how people react to them.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

Spot on. Excellent Post.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by v gate

Discrimination is discrimination. If your worried about tatts then you must be worried about race, gender, sexual orientation, age, hair colour, religion, weight, acsent economic background so on and so on.
If you worry about any of these things and your running the show then there is a pretty good chance your selling your customers short. Always hire the best person for the job. The best is the best and thats all there is to it but if you ask for vanilla you get vanilla.
I will always give the job on merit or word of mouth from people i know. If your unknown then your on trial and if your no good see ya later.
In this day and age if your bangin on about tatts on people you shouldnt be in charge of personel.

Discrimination is what life is about.
If you could not discriminate you would be a fool or mentally challenged.
It's about the ability to see fine distinctions and differences.
It's not to do with worried really but if you don't discriminate you could be selling your self short and others.
People in this day and age have been brainwashed into believing that the word discrimination is an evil.
Try running a business without it and it will fail for sure, you can not let others or naive political correctness run the show.
Only a government run department could exist without it.
Discrimination is not prejudice and prejudice can very from slight to stupid.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

What maturity you have. Sad really. Did it take you all day to come up with that? I can almost see the desperation in your post. Perhaps you should reconsider the need to post if all you are going to put up is some dribble. Come back to me when you have a genuine example of your point of view and we can take it from there.

You really are simple minded. Here, Ill hold your hand and step you through it. If this doesnt help, next time Ill write in a medium more suited to your capabilities, Ill see if my kid still has some crayons.

You said agree to disagree.
I said, no. >>>> But posted no more.<<< That really is the significant part.
You came back and failed to see the absence of more as being me letting it go.

Did it take me all day? Can you read the time? You posted at 7 am, I responded at 8. You know, when the big hand reaches the 12, and the little hand is on the 7. I posted when the big hand moved all the way around the clock back to the 12, and the little hand moved to the 8. I can see that clocks with hands are a challenge for you, but for gods sake, post times are digital.

And to help with the next one, I just logged in.

[ego gtp]

maybe obama should have his kids names tattooed on his forearm that would would create some cool discussions

[BDA Escort]

my 2c.

as australians, we live in a free country, and being a free country means we have choices.

in this case, you either choose to have a tattoo, or not to have a tattoo.
pretty simple really.

i think the important thing is that if someone has one, or more, and they are happy with their decision to do so, then everyone else should respect that decision.
likewise, if someone decides not be tattoo'd, again, they are happy and everyone should respect that too.

personally, i don't think there will ever be a general concensus either way as to what 'most' think is best for the above reason/s, but i do think that what an individual does with themselves is their business, and i don't agree with someone else judging that because it isn't what they feel is correct.

as for whether i'm tattoo'd or not.... lets just say i'm happy with my decision, be it with or without, and leave it at that, as again, what i do is my business and i would hope that everyone else can respect that, as i would do the same for them.

cheers.

[Envi XR8]

Originally Posted by fmc351

You said agree to disagree.
I said, no. >>>> But posted no more.<<< That really is the significant part.
You came back and failed to see the absence of more as being me letting it go.

OH so that's why I couldn't understand what you were on about! My crystal ball is currently broken! But I should have one by the end of today so I will be able to interpret your posts after that. No wonder your ability to properly state your case is hampered if this is the logic you use! Let me guess, Yes means no? No means Yes?
You have also missed the point of my "all day" comment, but I'm guessing with the thought process that you have on board there is no point explaining it; you simply wouldn't get it. Though, seeing as how you think cryptically here's a hint... It doesn't actual refer to the physical time that you replied.

Over the time on the forum I have read your other posts and while not agreed with everything, respected your point of view on most. The sad fact is, had you debated this topic with sensible arguements and comments based on real life situations and common sense instead of picking obscure scenarios to prove your point, while I wouldn't ever agree with your opinion, I would have at least respected it.

[Iggypoppin']

Wasn't this a discussion on tattoos?
I am glad I have chosen to work in a field where tattoos are commonplace and not frowned upon. Trady ftw!

[gtfpv]

i dont have any tattoos . i've always wanted one on my arms . but dont have the guts or motive to do it . i guess they are like moles or birthmarks , i'm sure you waouldnt ask for one , so why ask for a picture on your skin . but it's personall choice . more women than men get them these days . i hate them on the bak shoulder or neck or boobs . the plumbers cracks ok though , because i can look at that and pretend i'm looking at the tatt when my wife slaps me .