F6x

[JPDyno]

Seen a few of these recently, driving to work (Geelong to Melbourne), and one parked in Geelong during Scandia week.
Interior was nice, but the rest didnt really do it for me.

[JPFS1]

Some of the comments amaze me.

Honestly... the people complaining would not even be the demographic that this is aimed at.

So many of your comments make it sound like it should be a cheap and simple exercise to throw 19's or 20's at it, new bumpers and this and that.

Put simply it's not cheap and it's not simple in a corporate organisation.

They had a million dollars to play with, what they've done is all that could be achieved with that sort of pocket money.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by JEM

Honestly... the people complaining would not even be the demographic that this is aimed at.

So what demographic is it aimed at?

Considering that most Territories are employed on the Mum's Taxi run, I'm struggling to actually pick a demograph that would be interested in the TTG, let alone an FPV.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by JEM

Some of the comments amaze me.

Honestly... the people complaining would not even be the demographic that this is aimed at.

So many of your comments make it sound like it should be a cheap and simple exercise to throw 19's or 20's at it, new bumpers and this and that.

Put simply it's not cheap and it's not simple in a corporate organisation.

They had a million dollars to play with, what they've done is all that could be achieved with that sort of pocket money.

Well said..

[ClevlndStemer]

Originally Posted by JEM

Some of the comments amaze me.

Honestly... the people complaining would not even be the demographic that this is aimed at.

So many of your comments make it sound like it should be a cheap and simple exercise to throw 19's or 20's at it, new bumpers and this and that.

Put simply it's not cheap and it's not simple in a corporate organisation.

They had a million dollars to play with, what they've done is all that could be achieved with that sort of pocket money.

I am sorry but that is a pathetic excuse. If they couldn't do it properly within the budget then why bother at all? Why not put the $$ into the Orion based cars instead of wasting it on this, thing.

FPV have not executed this at all well, there is nothing at all special about the car, especially at the price. They did a half assed effort and this is the result. Goodluck.

[zebby]

"and the option of ‘F6X 270’ stripes".

"The latter has been included at the behest of boss Rod Barrett, despite the view of some within the company that stripes on an FPV should be limited to V8-powered vehicles".

So that was what Rod meant, when he said he had listened to feedback from the Sydney Motor Show, and was doing something about it.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

So what demographic is it aimed at?

Considering that most Territories are employed on the Mum's Taxi run, I'm struggling to actually pick a demograph that would be interested in the TTG, let alone an FPV.

As far as i know, the TTG actually sells quite well...

If you listen to FPV (they've done the market research), they think they'll attract a new breed of customer. They can't find a reasonable competitor to the F6X, so it will open the door for quite a diverse customer base.

They are aiming for 600 sales this year and 400 next. If they achieve that, i'd say they'd be extremely happy. That's a great R.O.I.

[McobraR]

Originally Posted by zebby

"and the option of ‘F6X 270’ stripes".

"The latter has been included at the behest of boss Rod Barrett, despite the view of some within the company that stripes on an FPV should be limited to V8-powered vehicles".

So that was what Rod meant, when he said he had listened to feedback from the Sydney Motor Show, and was doing something about it.

Can't wait to see his take on what a GTHO should be like (if it goes ahead).

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

I am sorry but that is a pathetic excuse. If they couldn't do it properly within the budget then why bother at all? Why not put the $$ into the Orion based cars instead of wasting it on this, thing.

FPV have not executed this at all well, there is nothing at all special about the car, especially at the price. They did a half assed effort and this is the result. Goodluck.

Well said..

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

I am sorry but that is a pathetic excuse. If they couldn't do it properly within the budget then why bother at all? Why not put the $$ into the Orion based cars instead of wasting it on this, thing.

FPV have not executed this at all well, there is nothing at all special about the car, especially at the price. They did a half assed effort and this is the result. Goodluck.

No it's not a pathetic excuse. It's reality in the big automotive business, especially when you're bent over backwards. Things move extremely slowly.

People have been screaming black and blue for an FPV Territory, sure it may not appeal to the 16 - 30 year old forumite, but FPV had to be seen as doing something, they're a business, it's the right product for an end of life model with the highest margin.

If they sell their targets, then i'm happy for them.

[Nikked]

Everbody, 'perspectivise'

1. FPV want its new models out soon after, if not with the base models
2. FPV has sweet all budget
3. Most money and work was therefor on the orion
4. New tezza hopfully soon, they bring out somthing then

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by JEM

If you listen to FPV (they've done the market research), they think they'll attract a new breed of customer. They can't find a reasonable competitor to the F6X, so it will open the door for quite a diverse customer base.

My own opinion is that they have either been ill-informed or their market research was grosely inadequate.

I think FPV is stuck in a bad position - it was the wet dream model that everyone imagined that they would one day build, but I don't think it offers much differentiation over a TTG. Furthermore, being priced in the 70,000 mark is squarely up against the Lexus RX330, BMW x3, Land Rover Discovery, Audi Q7

[5.4 GT]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Everbody, 'perspectivise'

1. FPV want its new models out soon after, if not with the base models
2. FPV has sweet all budget
3. Most money and work was therefor on the orion
4. New tezza hopfully soon, they bring out somthing then

So why bother doing a half-assed effort at all?? Leave it till the new Terror comes out and when they have more development dollars to have a proper go at it.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by JEM

Some of the comments amaze me.

Honestly... the people complaining would not even be the demographic that this is aimed at.

So many of your comments make it sound like it should be a cheap and simple exercise to throw 19's or 20's at it, new bumpers and this and that.

Put simply it's not cheap and it's not simple in a corporate organisation.

They had a million dollars to play with, what they've done is all that could be achieved with that sort of pocket money.

JEM I know its not cheap to create a new model, and that designing and producing new bits and pieces is very expensive, but looks wise this vehicle is very underwhelming, and *visually* not worth the 75k. Consumers dont care how much it costs for this, that and the other either; they just want more and more bang for their buck.

I'm interested to see just how well it sells, I hope it does well for them. I'm guessing this is the half hearted 'ring money out of the old platform, before the next update' style attempt. The next F6X may have the visual punch wed expect from an FPV (visual punch doesnt have to be over-the-top-rice-bling-bling either mind you)

[ClevlndStemer]

Originally Posted by JEM

No it's not a pathetic excuse. It's reality in the big automotive business, especially when you're bent over backwards. Things move extremely slowly.

People have been screaming black and blue for an FPV Territory, sure it may not appeal to the 16 - 30 year old forumite, but FPV had to be seen as doing something, they're a business, it's the right product for an end of life model with the highest margin.

If they sell their targets, then i'm happy for them.

If they sell them then well done.

HOWEVER, this wouldn't be a bread and butter model for them so i can't understand why you would rush it to market, I would have thought being a business, they would have thought about it a lot more, what would be needed for the car and spent the $$ a little more wisely on their R&D producing a much better model.

But then honestly I wouldn't expect any more from FPV "throw on more stickers and she'll be right mate".

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by JEM

No it's not a pathetic excuse. It's reality in the big automotive business, especially when you're bent over backwards. Things move extremely slowly.

People have been screaming black and blue for an FPV Territory, sure it may not appeal to the 16 - 30 year old forumite, but FPV had to be seen as doing something, they're a business, it's the right product for an end of life model with the highest margin.

If they sell their targets, then i'm happy for them.

IF I was a automotive manufacturer I would agree with your logic and comment. Unfortunately for FPV I'm a potential customer who only cares about the end product. If they deliver, I will buy. Simple as that.

Going off the feedback in the Territory section, from current Territory owners they got it wrong. If the decision to leave the exterior alone was based on feedback from their market research who told them to not follow along their current FPV look, then they need to get a new test group.

There's little doubt that the F6X should improve on the TT/TTG in the performance/handling dept, and that will take it from a great car to an excellent one for what it is. And whilst I certainly didn't want a "boy racer" softroader, I did want something that would differentiate itself from the TT/TTG and have some relationship in styling with the rest of the FPV range (stripes aside).

I hope FPV get their investment back, although if they sell their targets I will be amazed and also a little disappointed. Because that will just encourage them to take the soft option on future models.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

If they couldn't do it properly within the budget then why bother at all? Why not put the $$ into the Orion based cars instead of wasting it on this, thing.

FPV have not executed this at all well, there is nothing at all special about the car, especially at the price. They did a half assed effort and this is the result. Goodluck.

I agree. 99.9%

I understand the market and would be considered a buyer for this product. Like the Force cars before this, the product is underdone and the timing well off, so much so that they really should have shelved it IMO.

If this had come out 12 months ago then fair enough. It’s a concern that the show item was perceived by FPV standards and feedback to require a few cosmetic retouches and this is the end result.

I understand the position and have watched many a good man leave FPV because of it. I understand the political / realities this business has faced and is facing moving forward but there has to come a point where the standing- image of the business is more important than a grab for a handful of sales. If Barrett is to be believed and a GTHO won’t come to fruition if it can’t be done correctly, then there is only one question remaining. What makes any other FPV product less deserving???

Really what everyone is commenting on boils down to wheels and kit so it’s a pretty small margin of complaint but never the less a component of the overall picture. A picture that at some point should have the word “premium” underlining it.

To me perhaps the better option from a Ford perspective would have been to produce the car under the XR brand with consideration to FPV drive train recognition.

IMO there isn't the FPV family look to it that a FPV Territory deserves. There isn't that instant hit in the face recognition that the family tree has built up and besides one feature on this F6X, Orion FPV is just going to make it worse.

[davocol]

And coming in at number one on the top ten ways to waste 1 million dollllllarrrrrs, the FPV F6x.

Nice but far too late and not enough to make it better value than the turbo territory. The same people that are praising FPV for this were praising them for the force cars. Have they sold 50 yet? Survival of this company and brand recognition is all about sales, bottom line is if the car does not produce sales then dont waste the time or money investing in it.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

So what demographic is it aimed at?

Considering that most Territories are employed on the Mum's Taxi run, I'm struggling to actually pick a demograph that would be interested in the TTG, let alone an FPV.

You do realise that the majority of Australians do not live in Sydney suburbs don't you?

The majority of AU falcons I saw were taxis and the majority of BAs were telstra/government cars or rentals so does that mean that the GT should not have been made because the market demographic I saw for falcons was taxi/telstra/government?

Or maybe there are AUs and BA that I didn't see in places where I don't live......

[DJM83]

How many threads do we need on this car seriously

[flappist]

Originally Posted by TE50 056

How many threads do we need on this car seriously

The answer is 42 but I am not sure that is actually the question........

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by The_Fantastic_Ford

JEM I know its not cheap to create a new model, and that designing and producing new bits and pieces is very expensive, but looks wise this vehicle is very underwhelming, and *visually* not worth the 75k. Consumers dont care how much it costs for this, that and the other either; they just want more and more bang for their buck.

I'm interested to see just how well it sells, I hope it does well for them. I'm guessing this is the half hearted 'ring money out of the old platform, before the next update' style attempt. The next F6X may have the visual punch wed expect from an FPV (visual punch doesnt have to be over-the-top-rice-bling-bling either mind you)

I think some of you are a little too preoccupied with the wrapping paper and not the present inside... Why does it have to scream "boyracer" to be a worthy vehicle? The Territory platform is a softroader, not a serious road/track blaster. FPV are targeting a new demographic, a target market most likely less worried about the "bling factor" and more worried about actual driving substance, the "meat and veg".. good on FPV.
If it doesnt inspire new incremental sales or it steals sales from other FPV products then we can criticise, but i believe its understated for 2 good reasons.. budget constraints and its market segment focus ....
FFS nobody has driven one yet so how do we know what its even like as an actual vehicle rather than just a show piece...?

[Falc'man]

I thought I'd contribute to this thread as well...

nag nag nag whinge whinge whinge..... just my 2c

How good was that? I deserve a job at FPV.

The interior is what I see when I drive and the exterior is what every executive
dreams about, the smaller rims aid tractive effort and the price is out of my
range, but really, who cares?

If it fails then so be it, I don't think FPV are bothered, it was only a million
bucks. And if it sells well, its more likely to depreciate quickly enough for me to
afford, even after whinging about it.

[McobraR]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I think some of you are a little too preoccupied with the wrapping paper and not the present inside...

I think it was Gorman that stated that the reason why BF sales weren't as high as they expected was because they didnt do enough change for the exterior... DAMN RIGHT! They clearly havent learnt their lesson.

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

.... FFS nobody has driven one yet so how do we know what its even like as an actual vehicle rather than just a show piece...?

Nobody is commenting on the way it drives, and as I've said if it improves on the TT, it will be a great drive. The present inside isn't in doubt, it's that it's wrapped in newspaper and not a FPV wrapper as most would expect.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by McobraR

I think it was Gorman that stated that the reason why BF sales weren't as high as they expected was because they didnt do enough change for the exterior... DAMN RIGHT! They clearly havent learnt their lesson.

You're not listening.. its NOT a GT or F6 sedan.... its aimed at a different class or style of motorist, its a different class of vehicle.

[4Vman]

Here's a snippet for those who don't understand what a million dollars can achieve.. the tooling alone for a new unique bumperbar would absorb about $200,000.00... Think about it, just the Tooling.. that doesnt include its design, prototyping etc..

[Poetic Justice]

But it's a bit like Toyota saying "you don't need RWD."

Though, you all criticise it.

But, would an Aurion be a little more appealing if it were RWD? The answer is yes.

I only think that it could have made do with the scalloped head lights and 19" wheels. No kits, just a little more!

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Grunter

Nobody is commenting on the way it drives, and as I've said if it improves on the TT, it will be a great drive. The present inside isn't in doubt, it's that it's wrapped in newspaper and not a FPV wrapper as most would expect.

It’s a bit more then that too. They say they didn't have time to put the FPV starter button in it. ???? Now surely we don’t need to go back over history to quote previous FPV statements on FPV product DNA. Either it was important then or not.

In two weeks time we are going to learn that the XR6T will be line ball with the power headlines of this FPV product. A similar situation has occurred on both sides of the fence previously and all those products suffered as well. Timing is so critical for products like this so much so that we have seen many an excellent concept or product undone.

How it drives isn't an issue for me either. The issue is FPV making statements about their own product then not doing what they say.

You only have to go back a couple of months for Rods opinion on a focus FPV. We simply won’t re-badge or take short cuts with the FPV DNA or words to that affect. It must be true to our heritage. Where does running out of time come into that?

The F6X calls this into question or at minimum significantly lowers the bar. A starter button isn't a huge issue but as a symbol of what FPV has stood for it comes second only to stripes. It’s also more symbolic of a feature of Orion FPV too but that’s a thread for another day. Just comes back to timing.

I maintain that this car should have been branded XR, because it certainly doesn't live up to FPV's own product mantra for mine.
That not enough for me to consider it an FPV, that and Laminges Territory rust epidemic revelation, means that is one sale they won’t get. There is a trend with recent FPV products. Depending on perspective at least the F6X is true to that new but less welcome tradition.

[XR8putts]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Here's a snippet for those who don't understand what a million dollars can achieve.. the tooling alone for a new unique bumperbar would absorb about $200,000.00... Think about it, just the Tooling.. that doesnt include its design, prototyping etc..

It's the design of that sodding bumper bar that is in question. An aggresive bumper dosn't cost more to tool. And If I'm not mistaken the tooling for plastic bumpers is vastly different to the tooling for metal panels, plastic being much cheaper and easier.

Design cost shouldn't be an issue as it is inhouse design at Ford. It's not like the F6X was designed by Pininfarina. The designers are most likely paid a salary, not by how many cars they design.

None the less, good design dosn't cost money. This car has new front and rear bumpers, skirts and spoiler (and others). It's the plain-jane design of these parts that is the issue, the money spent for these boring new parts would be the same if the designers put abit more effort into it.