Do You Trust The Government?

[Group C]

IMHO, I don't think anyone REALLY trusts the government totally.
Some things they seem to get right, but other's just get screwed over from day 1.

Personally, I don't really think they know, or care, just what the average Aussie household has to financialy deal with week to week, even more so with the current petrol prices, simply due to the fact that WE pay for most of their living expenses, not them.
I think that we are all just another vote for them at election time, and when elected, they are only there to line their own pockets as quickly as possible before they get booted out at a future election.

My 2 cents..

[xfalconz]

Originally Posted by popinfresh

Why should Howard accept responsibility? Did he go and shoot him?



Sorry, but that's rubbish really. I know what you're trying to say, but there's a lot of chinese people who were here long before many on these boards I would say. 1870's abouts if i'm not mistaken..

I think the military is covering something, but there still has to be a report on it before we will really know anything.

Maybe you didnt read or didnt understand my original comment.
The point being Howard is the man who decides where we fight and as a result of that desicion this guy is dead. And no im not passing judgment on whether that was right or wrong desicion.
Im not implying Howard wanted it to happen but in light of his previous ability to avoid responsibility for his government he did the right thing by the mans family to reduce the trauma they are feeling and bring some closure if possible.
Its a bit disrepectful to make a comment like that and dragging this on to me doesnt feel right so ive made my point and thats it from me on this topic.

[Dave_au]

Well as far as the whole Kovco thing goes, its probably better to look at the answers first and the solutions second.

Here are the theories I have heard to date:

A) he honestly shot himself whilst cleaning his gun (probably very unlikely)
B) the weapon accidently discharged whilst loaded (unlikely)
C) He was accidently shot whilst "playing" (some form of dare/russian roulette) with mates (likely)
D) He commited suicide in front of his mates (unlikely) (remember, its been reported that two of his mates were in the room at the time)
E) Foul play (don't really want to go there, but it was reported to have happened in NAM with the yanks)
F) He was shot and killed on patrol. Rather than bring back a soldier KIA, it was deemed by the powers that be better to bring back a soldier killed by accident (quite possible).

[INJECTED_250]

Nope dont trust any goverment... not one bit. I carnt belive that australians vote a guy in that would of bean beaten up at school his a tossa. But i spose the othere guys a fat turd so meh there both as bad as each other..

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Mark^^

Dare I even mention "children overboard"...or is that lost from everyones memories on how truthful our government is.

Mark

Yes because afterall, these people were genuine asylum seekers weren't they.

The people who drag this lame claim out every time there is allegedly scandal in the air really need to get a reality check. I suppose subscribing to the opinions of some of the SMH editorials is akin to contracting a viral form of ignorance, but sheesh, get over it.

They did throw their children into the water, as the boat was sinking. Why was it sinking? Because the asylum seekers scuttled it. This is after it allegedly broke down, and the Australian Navy repaired it. Then the asylum seekers destroyed the engine again amidst chants of "take us to Australia". The navy then tried to tow the boat back out to International waters and they scuttled it to make it sink. Video evidence that has been used throughout the media has even got a number of them insisting on being brought to Australia.
They were not genuine asylum seekers, they were economic refugees. They past through no less than 4 nations that would have given them asylum especially Indonesia (an Islamic nation more suitable to their beliefs), yet chose to pay people smugglers to set sail to Australia in an undersized boat. Most people of sound rationale would realise that something wasn't quite right regarding the circumstances leading up to this event yet are the first to blame the government, and some ill conceived notion of scandal.

As for AWB, who runs the public company? Not the government. If this were any other country it would be a non issue, as all companies that were doing business with Iraq at the time understood that there was no other way to do business with the despotic dictator saddam. The chairman of the AWB at the time; a Mr Trevor Flugey was appointed to the AWB in 1994 by the then Keating Government. When the liberals tried to get rid of him in 2001, Labor went ballistic claiming that he was the man to get the deals done and there was no reason to sack him. So they left him there.

IR changes, well the sky didn't fall in as was predicted did it.

The fact remains that the majority of Australians, not the elitist, banal, self serving, guilt ridden socialist leftie loonies, are happy with the fact that we are not in recession, are not having an open door policy to immigration, are able to afford more than we did 10 years ago and are able to reverse some of the utter failures of social experiments under the current governments rule.

Whilst many portfolios are suffering, check no further than your state government, whose job it is to manage said portfolios. And while your at it check the revenues of the states, and the proportion that they now spend on public service salaries as opposed to 10 years ago. Actually, check the size of the beauraucracies within the states, and how they've grown. (In NSW they have tripled under labor, and the joint is now broke even though they are getting over three times as much in total revenues).

Finally, a reason to have some trust in this government; well, look at the alternative offered - Mark Latham. Wow he was a visionary with his evergreening (highlighting a problem that didn't exist and promising to fix it) ways wasn't he. And now we've got Collins Class Kim. Fed Labor sure is the team for 07.

[OLDFORDNUT]

Originally Posted by turboute

That is true we all want job security - but to look at it from the other side you get a different picture. How many jobs are going outside the country? Think of all the telemarketers you get from India, the manufacturing jobs from china, taiwan Indo etc. The unions have driven up wages so far that it is not feasible for alot of these jobs to be in the county. If it keeps going the way it is we will be completely non-compeditive with the rest of the world and Australia will start loosing large projects. If it wasn't for the resorces boom that we are having our economy would be screwed over very quickly. The current boom may continue for the next 10 yrs but after that we will probably be in recession.

When the union were initially formed they were doing it for the right reason, people were well below the poverty line and were being harshly treated. But these days people get 90k for being the stop/ go person - that is rediculous. And it's half the reason why there are cost blowouts on every major project in every state. These guys do not have to perform because their job security is too tight - they cannot be fired for being lazy.

Unions do have their place and do some good things for their members, but for too long now they have been on a power trip and holding construction companies and govenments to ransom. I would love it if they would just tone it down a bit and just expect pay rises at the same rate as inflation - but if it keeps higher than the rate of inflation then the economy will go downhill quickly.

BTW I have been a contrator for longer than the new IR laws have been in place. I am in a fairly specialised niche and know pretty much everyone else doing the same job. If I screw up i dont get any work. Simple as that. Alot of other people cannot take that kind of pressure.

jeese what a load, of SXXT,
please tell me what Lollypop person gets $90k they get $17 an hour the workers like mechanics base rate is even less $13.50 an hour , if we lose any more Union power most workers will be living in caravan parks , most workers in factories have absolutely no protection now,and big corporations see it as a green light to squeeze the sxxt out of workers .
your quote about heavy handed unions is a joke as you are sprouting Liberal crap from 10 years ago,the Union movement as a whole is much weaker because if laws introduced 10 years ago but with ACA and people like you , the masses are scared into letting the government change laws that have been in place for decades to protect those who cant protect themselves.

[xfalconz]

Originally Posted by ltd

Yes because afterall, these people were genuine asylum seekers weren't they.

The people who drag this lame claim out every time there is allegedly scandal in the air really need to get a reality check. I suppose subscribing to the opinions of some of the SMH editorials is akin to contracting a viral form of ignorance, but sheesh, get over it.

They did throw their children into the water, as the boat was sinking. Why was it sinking? Because the asylum seekers scuttled it. This is after it allegedly broke down, and the Australian Navy repaired it. Then the asylum seekers destroyed the engine again amidst chants of "take us to Australia". The navy then tried to tow the boat back out to International waters and they scuttled it to make it sink. Video evidence that has been used throughout the media has even got a number of them insisting on being brought to Australia.
They were not genuine asylum seekers, they were economic refugees. They past through no less than 4 nations that would have given them asylum especially Indonesia (an Islamic nation more suitable to their beliefs), yet chose to pay people smugglers to set sail to Australia in an undersized boat. Most people of sound rationale would realise that something wasn't quite right regarding the circumstances leading up to this event yet are the first to blame the government, and some ill conceived notion of scandal.

As for AWB, who runs the public company? Not the government. If this were any other country it would be a non issue, as all companies that were doing business with Iraq at the time understood that there was no other way to do business with the despotic dictator saddam. The chairman of the AWB at the time; a Mr Trevor Flugey was appointed to the AWB in 1994 by the then Keating Government. When the liberals tried to get rid of him in 2001, Labor went ballistic claiming that he was the man to get the deals done and there was no reason to sack him. So they left him there.

IR changes, well the sky didn't fall in as was predicted did it.

The fact remains that the majority of Australians, not the elitist, banal, self serving, guilt ridden socialist leftie loonies, are happy with the fact that we are not in recession, are not having an open door policy to immigration, are able to afford more than we did 10 years ago and are able to reverse some of the utter failures of social experiments under the current governments rule.

Whilst many portfolios are suffering, check no further than your state government, whose job it is to manage said portfolios. And while your at it check the revenues of the states, and the proportion that they now spend on public service salaries as opposed to 10 years ago. Actually, check the size of the beauraucracies within the states, and how they've grown. (In NSW they have tripled under labor, and the joint is now broke even though they are getting over three times as much in total revenues).

Finally, a reason to have some trust in this government; well, look at the alternative offered - Mark Latham. Wow he was a visionary with his evergreening (highlighting a problem that didn't exist and promising to fix it) ways wasn't he. And now we've got Collins Class Kim. Fed Labor sure is the team for 07.

Ok Howards quote of 'we decide who comes into this country and under what circumstance must have you proud to be Australian. Or did it make you slightly embarrassed with this little man trying to talk tough.
Of course he decides but he wanted to appeal to the right wing freaks.
And of course you know they were not asylum seekers but refugees because you took time to find out, or just felt proud that we managed to keep them out. Even our immigration dept cant get it right deporting Australian citizens but of course our government always tells us the truth..
As for Iraq thats a marvellous success, of course nothing wrong with funding the enemey with our bribes however.
Mate i appreciate economic stability but also have some open mindedness to the chaging face of the world and if a government does whatever it wants and then denies knowledge or responsibility when it goes wrong ive got a right to differ my opinion without feeling like a left wing lunatic or whatever you reckon.
In regard to your last paragraph agreed labour are no alternative but isnt it comforting to know our prime minister uses George Bush as a role model, a man who quite possibily bases his foreign policy desicions on his daily conversation with god.
The world sure is a safer place....

[Group C]

I forgot one thing in my post before...

As I'm someone who is JUST old enough to remember, does anyone else recall how financialy ruined this country was when the Fraser government was defeated in 1982, by the Hawke government, in the biggest landslide in Australian political history at that time??
Anyway, does anyone remember who was the Fraser gov.'s Treasurer, THE man who is ultimately responible for the country's money, and probably who the public was most p1ssed off with due to the financial situation...??

It was John Howard... and 13 years later he gets re-elected as PM.
The alarm bells should have been heard waaaaaaaaay back then over issues of today (F&*KING fuel prices being just 1), simply due to his track record...

Also, I don't think Beasley's side is any better either. They're all as bad as one another.

It makes me laugh when you continually hear and see the 2 'sides' b1tch and fight over the silliest of things, but as soon as someone puts forward that they think they've all done a good job and deserve a pay-rise, they all become mates and agree with each other!

Why do they do this??
As I wrote before, they only care about how much cash they can retire on...

[xbcool]

i would not trust the government to run a chook raffle.

John Howard is just a little turd suffering from small mans syndrom.

(sorry to all people under 5 feet tall the small mans comment is only directed at Howard)

[Dodge]

y i dont trust them
1, they paid 300K for a BBQ in the new house 10 odd yrs ago
2, they never spend all the tax $ collected but they ask for more
3, they have a silly *** about answer for everything
4, even covnicted pollos get their long service/super payouts
5, price fixing,
6, so easy to give some 3rd world a huge amount of money but we have to fight to get a decent hospital
7, who pays for the travel expenses,y does a breakfast cost 75 $ when they stay away
8, there is more people doing diddly twat that they cant even think of a name for thier position, bench, chair, cabinet, leaches
9, they are all a bunch of thieves, check thier homes for toilet paper and coffee. I bet its all from the office
just a few of the top of my head

[ltd]

Originally Posted by xfalconz

Ok Howards quote of 'we decide who comes into this country and under what circumstance must have you proud to be Australian. Or did it make you slightly embarrassed with this little man trying to talk tough.
Of course he decides but he wanted to appeal to the right wing freaks.
And of course you know they were not asylum seekers but refugees because you took time to find out, or just felt proud that we managed to keep them out. Even our immigration dept cant get it right deporting Australian citizens but of course our government always tells us the truth..
As for Iraq thats a marvellous success, of course nothing wrong with funding the enemey with our bribes however.
Mate i appreciate economic stability but also have some open mindedness to the chaging face of the world and if a government does whatever it wants and then denies knowledge or responsibility when it goes wrong ive got a right to differ my opinion without feeling like a left wing lunatic or whatever you reckon.
In regard to your last paragraph agreed labour are no alternative but isnt it comforting to know our prime minister uses George Bush as a role model, a man who quite possibily bases his foreign policy desicions on his daily conversation with god.
The world sure is a safer place....

So what you're saying is that the Whitlam, Hawke and Keating idea of bringing out migrants, any migrants just for votes' sake has been a success are you? We are now living with the problems inherent from those three's ineptitude and greed. The social "experiment" of bringing out hundreds of thousands of people from the middle east has in no way been a problem has it? There's not been a problem with crime, drugs or violence in this community has there, and there's definately not been an issue with the level of welfare dependancy amongst this community, no no no. After all, wasn't Gough Whitlam the man who tried to do a shady 3.5 billion dollar deal with an Arab shiek that led to his ultimate removal as prime minister?

And the people who decide as to where refugees go; the UNHCR - their track record is brilliant as well. I mean after all, they have member nations such as Switzerland that have absolutely no immigration whatsoever, yet they vote that Australia can take over 500,000 refugees a year because we are such a big country by area. Never mind that over 90% of that area is desert.

Before you and others with limited capacity to make the distinction between state and federal get a headache from thinking too much whilst simultaneously remembering that I is before E except after C, perhaps you should look at how Whitlam, Hawke and Keating went into office with relatively nothing and all came out multi millionaires. Put that aside though for the man who wanted all of our international ties to be with Indonesia, and who also wanted us to become a Banana Republic. Then lets not all forget the recession we had to have, that saw hundreds of thousands lose pay, entitlements, rights and ultimately jobs. Why did we have to have that recession; because we elected a halfwit whose ministry consisted of idiots that ran a massive deficit for far too long and was fiscally irresponsible. Oh and what about Keating after his election defeat? Dumped his wife and is now living with his boyfriend. Obviously a great family man.

As for reasons of IR change, look no further than the amount of small businesses throughout the country who have been restrained from hiring new staff. I am in small business and I have been through the IRC over a matter of a gentleman over 65 who developed dimentia, and was not able to do his job, let alone remember how to get to work. For over 9 months I tried everything in my power to help this man to the point where I was spending over 2 hours per day coaching him, and ultimately had to let him go. As his son was a legal secretary they dragged me before the commission for unfair dismissal. The commissioner made the comment that I had done everything right re written warnings, counselling, training, risk assessment etc, yet still awarded him $15k as I was in business, and could probably afford it. Never mind the fact that I had to lay off two casuals in order to be able to pay for this guys restitution.

Also, someone mentioned lollipop ladies getting 90k a year; they wish. However, if you work for NSW state government, that is your basic startup package. The amount of unskilled, untrained beauraucrats in this state has tripled under Labor. There are now more PR people and spindoctors than ever before in the countries history. The cross city tunnel for example was where the developer had to pay 102 million dollars to the labor party in order to win the contract. No kickpacks there huh?
Then, after the whole project was bungled by the NSW Gov, and the tunnel had a toll increase before it was even opened, the blame was shifted to the developer. RTA documents brought before the public show that the NSW gov suggested the toll increase. Then there was the shady deals done with the developer through the RTA to close access to several public roads in order to funnel traffic through the CCT. All of this has been played out before the media and the head of the RTA Paul Forward was sacked. Yet, he still got to keep his $370,000 per year on the displaced public servants list and was paid 2 million to cop the wrap for it.
Or what about the lady who ran Camden and Campbelltown hospitals. You know, the ones that had patients going in for a cold and coming out through the morgue. She was going to be "fired and criminal charges laid" according to our premier bob (call me Nero) Carr. Funny how she ended up running Goulburn Base hospital. But no corruption there I suppose.

If you vot for Liberal, then you get people from the private sector who have run businesses, who have families, who have not been career public servants and have studied to earn a degree. Vote Labor and you end up with career politicians, Union stalwarts, train drivers (michael costa NSW treasurer) and a lot of queers (Keating, Carr, Knowles, Iemma, Refshaugee) hellbent on undermining family values. These guys also don't earn degrees, but are awarded doctrites from Universities that they give monet or rights to. You also end up with a party that is all about empowering the minorities, whilst subjecting the silent majority to their own selfish mistakes (cronulla riots and the caucasion incarceration - moslems all had the charges dropped).

[nugget378]

I'd rather trust a used car salesman called nev. The worst tripe they throw out is democracy this democracy that, we do not live in a democracy, looks more like a plutocracy to me,or if there is a word for it (control by/through media, spin) medoicracy maybe, sounds like mediocrity to me. by the way this is directed to government from both sides, just dogs of a different colour as far as I can see.

[Outbackjack]

Thank god for the liberal party eh LTD. They have NEVER got anything wrong, and they carry the burden of perfection with such dignity and grace. How do you manage to fly with such a huge right wing???

[ltd]

Easy outback, because I'm not ignorantly blinded by some socialistic ideal born in the 70's where stupid lazy people are rewarded for others achievements.

Also, I don't judge my passengers by the level of "twang" in their voices.

[gozza]

Originally Posted by popinfresh

People coming to don't need to abide our beliefs. They need to abide our laws. They can believe in whatever they want. It wasn't that long ago when people in schools were made to say oaths such as 'I love God..etc' in the mornings. How would you feel if you were buddist and having to say 'I love God' when you came to school?

I do agree on the segregating themselves part to some extent, though it's been happening for years. There's always been areas that are mainly inhabited by people of a certain ethnic background.

im not saying our religious beliefs man.....im talking about our beliefs as a society....what we believe should be the best for our country......

eg...immigrants will come in and not want to learn our history..our customs...anything what so eva...........

i guess i meant belief in that context...

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by ltd

Easy outback, because I'm not ignorantly blinded by some socialistic ideal born in the 70's where stupid lazy people are rewarded for others achievements.

Also, I don't judge my passengers by the level of "twang" in their voices.

You only have one eye open, and you fail to mention greedy corrupt people that have profited from others hard yakka. And go re read what was said by me and others regarding the Aussie twang. It was never spoken of as a way of measuring or judging some one. You seem to be ignorantly blinded by right wing "Thatcherism". Surely, even you can see that the truth is somewhere in between???

[Falcon_Phill]

'Do You Trust The Government?'

HAHAHAHAHA. good one, really.

[xfalconz]

LTD after reading your latest post i couldnt get to the end without rushing outside to find the nearest tree to hug.
Unfortunatly i couldnt fight my way thru all those trouble making migrants to get to one.
Looks like ill just have to hang out with my 'queer' labour mates, drink lattes all day and try to work out why I is before E exept after C.
Thanks for pointing this out and enlightening me. If i ask nicely will you let me vote liberal next time..

[ltd]

Rub your two IQ points together and see if they start a fire.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by ltd

Rub your two IQ points together and see if they start a fire.

You just dont get it, do you stunt butt?? You just cant sit out on one wing or the other and expect people to take you seriously... I assume that you are involved in the aviation industry in some capacity? Is that why you hate labour voters, you remember Paul Keatings quip about glorified bus drivers...... lets all take a step back before a mod slaps our wrists. It would seem given the results of the survey and the comments in this thread the present gov dont have any credibility at all.

My life is all CAVOK...... but that never did pay enough!!!

[ltd]

Yes, save your breath, you'll need it to blow up your date tonight. Once inflated you can take her to the "free the refugees" protest march.

[Outbackjack]

Your starting to babble mate.....

[ltd]

Oh, and the glorified bus drivers quip, well, Paul Keating has trouble in aeroplanes. Whenever he is asked were the pit is, he drops his trousers and bends over crying, "It's all yours baby".

An insult from Keating is actually a compliment. Socialistic fudge packing scumbag that he is.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by ltd

Oh, and the glorified bus drivers quip, well, Paul Keating has trouble in aeroplanes. Whenever he is asked were the pit is, he drops his trousers and bends over crying, "It's all yours baby".

An insult from Keating is actually a compliment. Socialistic fudge packing scumbag that he is.

:hihi: Bitter.....

[xfalconz]

This is deteriorating rapidly to just talkig s--t, which is understandable when there are two points of view and no middle ground.
Like Jack said far right wing ideas have no room for openmindedness.
I can tell you im no left wing hippie but i do look at our leadership with a certain amount of distrust.
Its only natural anyone who believes thier government can do no wrong and believe evrything they hear are kidding themselves.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

You just dont get it, do you stunt butt?? You just cant sit out on one wing or the other and expect people to take you seriously... I assume that you are involved in the aviation industry in some capacity? Is that why you hate labour voters, you remember Paul Keatings quip about glorified bus drivers...... lets all take a step back before a mod slaps our wrists. It would seem given the results of the survey and the comments in this thread the present gov dont have any credibility at all.

My life is all CAVOK...... but that never did pay enough!!!

It would seem from the comments that the present gov doesn't have any credibility, but similarly it also seems from the comments that ignorance is indeed proving blissful to some. Whilst I have no doubts as to peoples recollections of alleged cover ups and scandal, I wonder how many actually remember the temultuous early 90's with the recession, the blown budgets, high interest rates, high unemployment, jobs for the boys, the minority appeasement strategies and the LAW tax cuts we were all supposed to get. Or the fact that other countries weren't interested in trading with us, as the morons in power thought we didn't need trading partners or allies. And the deregulation of the airline industry was such a great move wasn't it. Oh thats right, we had rolling strikes that required the air force to transport passengers in c130 hercules aircraft. But lets not forget selling the commonwealth bank, or Qantas, or the inherent nepotism from ministers and theuir families. Now, Keating was an absolute champion who deserved the millions he had siphoned away for his own personal agenda.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

:hihi: Bitter.....

No, just laughing that tw@ts are outnumbered by sensible people come election time.

[xfalconz]

Allow me to be distracted again off the main post topic and delve into past politics that most people are well over but didnt Keating recognize the importance of our global location and developing trading relashionships in our asian neighbourhood.
Today our focus is back to USA. Theres just about nothing we wont do to keep them happy.

[Outbackjack]

Oh come on LTD.... I could throw just as many balls ups and jobs for the boys alegations about the current crop of morons that call themselves the government. You are still looking in from your starboard wing tip. Let yourself see things from a centre of balance persective and you may see the world in a differnet light. The vast majority of Australians sit at least a little to the left. This is born out by the numbers of voters that vote labour compared to liberal/national. People must realise that Johhny H. could NEVER be a majority prime minister.... What percentage of the population voted liberal??? With out the nats Johnny would be another nobody.... There is a good chance that the countries minority liberal voters had better get used the idea of a labour gov after the next election.... that is if johhny hasnt out lawed elections by then and declared himself grand poobar!!!!

Peace all.

[crusher]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Well as far as the whole Kovco thing goes, its probably better to look at the answers first and the solutions second.

Here are the theories I have heard to date:

A) he honestly shot himself whilst cleaning his gun (probably very unlikely)
B) the weapon accidently discharged whilst loaded (unlikely)
C) He was accidently shot whilst "playing" (some form of dare/russian roulette) with mates (likely)
D) He commited suicide in front of his mates (unlikely) (remember, its been reported that two of his mates were in the room at the time)
E) Foul play (don't really want to go there, but it was reported to have happened in NAM with the yanks)
F) He was shot and killed on patrol. Rather than bring back a soldier KIA, it was deemed by the powers that be better to bring back a soldier killed by accident (quite possible).

Very good points.

I was away on the weekend with a heap of blokes and a few ex service men. One bloke has been around guns and in the air force for years and knows his stuff. He was saying that the gun is pretty much impossible to accidentaly set off. There would have been silly buggers goin on or he did it on purpose.

Very possible that something else happened. They were muckin around, he did it on purpose, someone really didnt like him, or he was killed doing something very hush hush that they cant tell people about.

I dont trust the govt. Or Dr Nelson. First he was head of Education and whatnot and now hes head of military. With no military experience. How can you run something you know fuck all about?

I just feel for the family and friends. As I know people in the force and one of my mates is gonna head off soon to start his career in the army. If something happened id sure as hell like to know what really happened. Unless he was SAS. Then id live with not knowing what he was doing or where he was. Thats how it goes.