2008 - Page 3

**Polyal** · 27-08-2006, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

I think Sydney has to be spent convincing people BF2 does enough to be competitive against the VE.

Yeah didn't think of that.

Well then the MMS, that suits me better anyway
:Reverend:

falconlover · 27-08-2006, 07:30 PM

Has anybody actually seen the new orion falcon like clay models, etc? Pictures of what it looks like?

lv619 · 27-08-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconlover

Has anybody actually seen the new orion falcon like clay models, etc? Pictures of what it looks like?

:rolleyes:

falconlover · 27-08-2006, 07:53 PM

What does the smiley mean lol?

Iphido · 27-08-2006, 08:21 PM

Biggest problem with the AU doors is that the rears didn't open.

Who the hell designs a family car with rear doors, but they only open half way. Children are barely able to get out of a Fairlane... Its silly.

Hopefully the new falcon gets a interior with interior all over it, and not leaving bare, barely exterior coloured painted metal exposed inside.

Oh, and seats that have full range of movement such as a setting to go all the way down. And cup holders for everyone (maybe heated/cooled for front passengers with TEC). Maybe a fold down table for rear passengers. MP3? How about a foot rest? Maybe some nice interior lighting..

Given the BF mechanicals carry over only slightly revised I expect Ford to get the rest of the package absolutely perfect.

Bobman · 28-08-2006, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3 chaser

If the base Commodore is increased to 215Kw, then it will be classed as a high performance vehicle (Kw / Weight (kg) * 1000), and ppl on their P's will not be allowed to drive it.... Come to think of it, nor will ppl on their L's, so how will mum and dad teach the kids?

Well it's 125kw per tonne?

Say the Omega will come in at about 1700kg by the Series II, wouldn't that make it just under the radar?

So far every magazine & other car guru's have said the Commodore's Alloytec engine is low on power and economy but the BF is quite the opposite - Something we should be very happy about

ivorya · 28-08-2006, 12:13 PM

not being negative here but every new falcon model has been made bigger/wider in some way which means greater weight and less performance/economy. We are now seeing this in the new fal-di-dore. Lets hope that the new falcon in 2008, will obviously change its appearance, but not increase in weight. Cause i'm sick of the sh** the hand out saying it's all safety equipment crap.....

RPO83 · 28-08-2006, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivorya

not being negative here but every new falcon model has been made bigger/wider in some way which means greater weight and less performance/economy. We are now seeing this in the new fal-di-dore. Lets hope that the new falcon in 2008, will obviously change its appearance, but not increase in weight. Cause i'm sick of the sh** the hand out saying it's all safety equipment crap.....

Just one example in regards to size, the AU Falcon was smaller than the EL Falcon, it was also a lighter car. Over the last decade every single Falcon released has had equal or better fuel economy than its predecessor and even performance has been improved on the latest evolutions.

So if its not safety, and its not the fact that Ford have to buld the Falcon at a competitive price what reason can you give to why Ford love making the Falcon heavier?

Danny · 28-08-2006, 12:44 PM

I have a terrible feeling that all the media hype has been wasted on VE's release. Does anyone here share the same sentiment, that the release of the new Falcon will be less hyped and will probably not have as much fanfare surrounding it than Commodore?

Reason why I think this is that for one, anything that will be on Orion will already be on the VE (Holden has always been in front as far as safety with exception of curtain airbags and euro elements like LED's go).

Also, The VZ was a bit of a clunker as far as suspension architecture and chassis and all that went, where the BF has a pretty fantastic and near world class set up already, so the upgrade to Orion will not be as huge as what VZ to VE was as BF is very good already....

Iphido · 28-08-2006, 03:54 PM

Well if everyone is going to stand around winking at each other telling no secrets, I am going to make a prediction.

Orion will no doubt use some weight saving measures.

Orion will have specific alloy and hi-strength iron/steel components in:
-Suspension
-Chassis
The engine will still be grey cast iron, but rocker cover, some accessories/mounts will be lighter.

You can quote me on this, orion will be 25kg lighter than BFII.

It will most likely use magnesium and aluminium as well as CGI. CGI has great potential in the suspension where finish castings don't have to be extensively machined. Infact some suspension parts are already CGI on certain models. But I only expect the falcon to lose at most 35kg. Some of that will be negated by extra equipment on some models. The rise of the price of steel and iron has also ment these alloys are effectively cheaper to use than previously.

Orion will be dimentionally larger than the BF. In width, height and length. By the order of 25-50mm.

Fuel consumption will be marginally improved. AU shell with BF front resulted in a non aerodynamic shape. Orion will improve on the BA cd .30 +. Some under body aero action will happen.
I expect Ford to target 9.9L per 100 for the orion (most likely on 98 octane). Gains from slightly lighter weight (city cycle), slightly higher compression of 10.7:1 (all), sightly improved ECU programming (all), slightly improved aero (highway) and some low friction/light weight engine parts. 92 octane fuel can be used but won't get magic 9.9L per 100.

Danny · 28-08-2006, 04:17 PM

If it turns out to be anything like 60 minutes's special on the future prediction of the worlds oil supply within the next 5 years, then Orion will arrive to a nation of pushbike riders, joggers, bus and train commuters, high grocery prices, no electricity and looters capitalising on the worlds confusion and panic over the grim realisation that we have run out....

Bloody 60 Minutes...

SB076 · 28-08-2006, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

I have a terrible feeling that all the media hype has been wasted on VE's release. Does anyone here share the same sentiment, that the release of the new Falcon will be less hyped and will probably not have as much fanfare surrounding it than Commodore?

Reason why I think this is that for one, anything that will be on Orion will already be on the VE (Holden has always been in front as far as safety with exception of curtain airbags and euro elements like LED's go).

Also, The VZ was a bit of a clunker as far as suspension architecture and chassis and all that went, where the BF has a pretty fantastic and near world class set up already, so the upgrade to Orion will not be as huge as what VZ to VE was as BF is very good already....

I wouldnt be too worried about the media the VE is new now and we are not going to see an Orion til at least 12 months, plenty of time for the media to get there breath back. Plus I am hoping Ford have some tricks up there sleeve

Keep in mind both Toyota and Holden released brand new cars at the same time, therefore they have shared the media attention. The Orion will hopefully have most of the medias attention as it will be the only major new vehicle released at the time (we can expect VE series II etc)

JPFS1 · 28-08-2006, 05:02 PM

The media attention doesn't only come from within, it is Holden spending BIG $$$ on media advertising and cutting deals with the media also.

Will ford do the same?? I highly doubt it. Ford are very conservative when it comes to marketing, i can't see the philosophy changing anytime soon.

IPhido

Great list of wants for Orion - all speculation, but it is fun.

I agree on the weight saving measures, can't say how much, but there will definately be a focus on weight as Ford have already gone through the whole body stiffening process etc, they will improve it again, but it wouldn't be like previous amounts. They already have the subframe design for IRS and front suspensions, so i wouldn't expect huge increases in stiffness from here. They can now concentrate efforts on optimising design without having to throw more steel at it to reinforce structures etc.

On the magnesium suggestion. I recall some years ago that Ford entered into an agreement with a QLD mining firm to purchase and stockpile magnesium. Where it will be used and when is another thing, timing seems to be right though.

The drag coefficient of BA/BF is actually under 0.30 already, which is a great achievement. The VE, surprisingly has gone backwards (well compared to BF) and is close to 0.35, obviously due to the larger frontal area and block type design.

HSE2 · 28-08-2006, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEM

The drag coefficient of BA/BF is actually under 0.30 already, which is a great achievement. The VE, surprisingly has gone backwards (well compared to BF) and is close to 0.35, obviously due to the larger frontal area and block type design.

It will be interesting to see how the V8 supercar goes with that frontal area. Then again Holden will probably get an exemption and run a hybrid front end.

Not sure how accurate this is but the 08 engines are said to be going into mules sometime 1st quarter 07.

Woz · 28-08-2006, 06:08 PM

Nevermind styling, I'm waiting for Psycho Chicken's comment on that V10 he's been hanging out for. :monkes:

falconlover · 28-08-2006, 08:44 PM

I hope that the new styling will be awesome and not crap looking! Any comments on that?

Dilan · 28-08-2006, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconlover

I hope that the new styling will be awesome and not crap looking! Any comments on that?

Styling is highly objective, what may seem ugly to someone may seem perfect to another so I guess you can't really rely one or two peoples opinions.

Abacus · 28-08-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

...Holden has always been in front as far as safety with exception of curtain airbags and euro elements like LED's go...

ROFLMAO!!!!

Er, what about structural integrity?

You would honestly rather be in a prang in a VT-VZ than an AU or a BA?

And then you say "Also, The VZ was a bit of a clunker as far as suspension architecture and chassis and all that went, where the BF has a pretty fantastic and near world class set up already"...Ever heard of primary safety?

FGX-351 · 30-08-2006, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 30487256

They should really scrap the carry-over AU doors for the BF2... I know this would be very expensive and impractical but in my opinion the one weakness of the BA-BF styling was the ugly AU doors!

Totally agree about the au doors being a ba/f weakness!

JPFS1 · 18-10-2006, 07:33 PM

^^bump^^

watch this space....

Brute6 · 18-10-2006, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEM

^^bump^^

watch this space....

I know what you mean and I think they are a huge improvement.....

Martyvan · 18-10-2006, 07:57 PM

Mmm.... I cant wait

Danny · 18-10-2006, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abacus

ROFLMAO!!!!

Er, what about structural integrity?

You would honestly rather be in a prang in a VT-VZ than an AU or a BA?

And then you say "Also, The VZ was a bit of a clunker as far as suspension architecture and chassis and all that went, where the BF has a pretty fantastic and near world class set up already"...Ever heard of primary safety?

ROFLMAO!!!!!

Where the Fk did I say that I'd rather be in a VZ. Where the hell did I say anything about Primary safety????

Get over yourself,

Ever heard of Passive safety?

McobraR · 18-10-2006, 09:21 PM

Havent seen this thread in AGES. Ford if your listening... DONT MAKE ORION FREAKIN CONSERVATIVE. Why cant they just make the Orion look like the iosis concept? jeez!

JPFS1 · 18-10-2006, 11:07 PM

ok - i can't go into much detail for obvious reasons....

A certain model atleast, which seems to be xr6, looks like it's going to ROCK.

BF2 has moved slightly towards the new falcon with some frontal design themes, but the way it's incorporated in the new falcon makes it look far more aggressive and cohesive.

For styling idea's of the front airdam, look at that new IosisX or whatever they called it, the SUV version of the Iosis.

Headlight shape is a little different to BF2 in that the outer edge seems to extend right up onto the wheel arch if that makes sense.

Side of the body sort of follows the iosis hip line, just not as pronounced.

Looking very good, and certainly not thinking it's too conservative.

FGX-351 · 18-10-2006, 11:13 PM

Cant wait to see this car

rodderz · 18-10-2006, 11:57 PM

Heres the IosisX that Jem mentioned, it's obvious to pick out what direction the new falcon is heading in. Not as pronounced as the Iosis but definately the sharper headlights and smoother shaped body with larger airdam, similar to the current focus xr5

uranium_death · 19-10-2006, 12:01 AM

The Iosis concept IMO looks great...IN CONCEPT!

In reality, for a family car I don't think it will suit the need.

The car however is a good base for ideas as it does make the BFII look outdated, given its roundish shape.

The AU attempted to re-style itself completely, but it appeared that Australia wasn't yet ready for it. Appeared that we (Australia in general) preferred our Commodores, despite the fact that the transmission clunks like buggery, the engine sounds stuffed after 5 years and it struggles to start.

They'll do somethind different, but they'll also make sure they don't do another AU.

Jayden · 19-10-2006, 01:01 AM

I hope it will still look like a muscle car, thats all.

I dont like that IosisX at all but I see parts that can be utilised on a more conservative car to make it look great like the flares maybe and um .... the ford badge, ok so I hate it, looks like a rabbit transformer on steroids.

On another note, should ford australia have had or should have a 'revival' of the 70s like car manufacturers in America, aka the new mustang, new Camaro concept, new Firebird. I think that being original still but having a 2 door muscle car reminiscent of the XA - XC would be so cool. whats anyone else think? these orion pics shown are too japanese / euro looking which is fine to an extent but just too much imo.

AWD Chaser · 19-10-2006, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayden

I hope it will still look like a muscle car, thats all.

I dont like that IosisX at all but I see parts that can be utilised on a more conservative car to make it look great like the flares maybe and um .... the ford badge, ok so I hate it, looks like a rabbit transformer on steroids.

On another note, should ford australia have had or should have a 'revival' of the 70s like car manufacturers in America, aka the new mustang, new Camaro concept, new Firebird. I think that being original still but having a 2 door muscle car reminiscent of the XA - XC would be so cool. whats anyone else think? these orion pics shown are too japanese / euro looking which is fine to an extent but just too much imo.

A "Limited Edition Ford Falcon 500".....