Alleged War Crimes by Australian Soldiers

[cheap]

Things that come to mind.

1) There is a pre-disposition from "our ABC" to over sensationalise everything. The ABC is supposed to be objective and balanced but they are not.

Recent examples
Live Sheep Trade
Cattle trade to Indonedia
Cardinal George Pell
And now SAS

The ABC seems to be in the business of ruining people, destroying industries and seldom held accountable. The rest of our media follow suit too.

2) It is very easy using selective video editing to stitch up people. The ADF is full of Alfa males, whiteanting someone is second nature. I wouldn't be surprised if within the ADF there wasn't maleficence involved in these claims.

3) As I understand, the Afgans have a sniff of financial compensation, questions of their honesty and credibility must be raised.

[xkxlxm]

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/f...24-p56hff.html

Article by former SAS officer.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by xkxlxm

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/f...24-p56hff.html

Article by former SAS officer.

What a great insight. Thanks for posting.

[mostly_broncos]

You need all these young men to come home . You are sacrificing your children for nothing. Australia is being used to give the impression that this is something more than just America looting another far off country.

Every other country should pull out and America should have to stay there alone if they have the balls to just admit they are only there to steal land and resources .

Opium and rare earth metals? bought with blood This kind of industrial level of murder is not compatible with so-called democracy. It needs to end.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by mostly_broncos

You need all these young men to come home . You are sacrificing your children for nothing. Australia is being used to give the impression that this is something more than just America looting another far off country.

Every other country should pull out and America should have to stay there alone if they have the balls to just admit they are only there to steal land and resources .

Opium and rare earth metals? bought with blood This kind of industrial level of murder is not compatible with so-called democracy. It needs to end.

Go look at what Major Bernard Gaynor has to say on the subject years ago on the subject and all. plenty of info, may take a few years for you to read.

[Trevor 57]

is he a fascist?

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by mostly_broncos

You need all these young men to come home . You are sacrificing your children for nothing. Australia is being used to give the impression that this is something more than just America looting another far off country.

Every other country should pull out and America should have to stay there alone if they have the balls to just admit they are only there to steal land and resources .

Opium and rare earth metals? bought with blood This kind of industrial level of murder is not compatible with so-called democracy. It needs to end.

What are you some relic from the 60's/70's?
Care to look at other reasons why our soldiers are there, not everyone is in agreeance with your comments.
Maybe you should stick to the topic "War crimes" instead of "politics".

[MITCHAY]

I have to say it is getting really ridiculous now when we are talking about the war memorial and stripping medals when no one has faced trial and been convicted.

Now the army is taking administrative action to boot out SAS soldiers. Well for me if that is justified, then the CDF and CA need to walk or be fired too.

Anyone who has worked in a large organisation knows full well how this **** goes. They take credit for success and run away as fast as they can from the **** ups.

[mostly_broncos]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

What are you some relic from the 60's/70's?
Care to look at other reasons why our soldiers are there, not everyone is in agreeance with your comments.
Maybe you should stick to the topic "War crimes" instead of "politics".

is Afghanistan a direct threat to any other country in the world?

The answer is no. Get the troops out . The governments manufacture reasons to send troops overseas because they have to justify all the shiny toys they buy with taxpayer money.

The global war on terror is imaginary , or more correctly its america imposing itself on the rest of the world and bringing death to foreign countries to support its MIC .


Afghanistan is just another Vietnam , if you put good people in an awful situation then they are going to break down. Then they do something lousy and they become scapegoats or at least suffer some sort of media dragging.

Result , promises to fix whats wrong and somehow ending the immoral war isn't viewed as a fix. There is too much money in it for the government to end it. Soldiers are expendable , the fact that they are someones sons or fathers means nothing to the bureaucracy

[Charliewool]

Is this new scrutiny having a domino effect on those returned already suffering PTSD??
Methinks these ongoing deaths are a MUCH more important issue than the ABC’s SAS grub mining.
‘Bout time Govco started looking after these broken souls... 9 in last 3 weeks!!!
It’s a bloody tragedy
https://www.news.com.au/national/pol...190c063cc7fc80

[Cav]

Former SF major attacks CDF over unit citations

A retired special-forces officer hit out at his former boss, CDF General Campbell, today for his “most disgusting demonstration of senior leadership”.



CAPTION: Former commandos Heston Russell and Scott Evenett prepare to lay a wreath at the Australian War Memorial.

Retired special-forces officer Heston Russell and fellow retired special-forces veteran Scott Evennett addressed media and paid their respects this morning to their fallen comrades at the special-forces memorial plaque at the Australian War Memorial.

This comes after former Defence Force chief Chris Barrie called for exhibits relating to the SAS in Afghanistan to be taken off display at the AWM – and after the Brereton report recommending the revocation of Meritorious Unit Citations from all 3000-plus special-forces personnel who deployed with the Special Operations Task Group in Afghanistan.

Mr Russell said the Brereton report was branding thousands of honourable soldiers who dedicated years of service and sacrifice to noble duty as presumed guilty over the alleged actions of a few and despite the presumption of innocence in our legal system.

“I am calling for common sense and respect to prevail in the treatment of soldiers who are not part of the investigation and to put a hold on any sanction until charges – which are yet to be laid – are decided by the courts,” Mr Russell said.

“Today I visited the commemorative plaques of special-forces members who have paid the ultimate sacrifice for their country and now stand to lose their citations as they are being punished because of these allegations.

“The families of our fallen heroes face the prospect of having honours stripped from their loved ones and their ultimate sacrifice reduced to scandal.”

Speaking to TV news crews at the AWM, former Major Russell took a serious swing at his former boss, CDF General Angus Campbell, for wearing a Conspicuous Service Cross for his command of Australians in action, including the Special Operations Task Group, during the time of the alleged war crimes.

“To then turn around and say via this report that he was unable to exercise effective command and control and to abdicate his command responsibility down to senior NCO, junior NCO and soldier level…

“…that’s not the sign of a leader – that is the sign of a politician – and that is one of the most disgusting demonstrations of senior leadership.

“That has made me very disappointed to call myself a military veteran and leader in this whole situation.”

Heston Russell recently launched the veteran lobby platform Voice of a Veteran.org and has instigated a petition lobbying to prevent the Meritorious Unit Citation being revoked for all Special Operations Task Group personnel.

https://www.voiceofaveteran.org/

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Cav

Former SF major attacks CDF over unit citations

A retired special-forces officer hit out at his former boss, CDF General Campbell, today for his “most disgusting demonstration of senior leadership”.

image

CAPTION: Former commandos Heston Russell and Scott Evenett prepare to lay a wreath at the Australian War Memorial.

Retired special-forces officer Heston Russell and fellow retired special-forces veteran Scott Evennett addressed media and paid their respects this morning to their fallen comrades at the special-forces memorial plaque at the Australian War Memorial.

This comes after former Defence Force chief Chris Barrie called for exhibits relating to the SAS in Afghanistan to be taken off display at the AWM – and after the Brereton report recommending the revocation of Meritorious Unit Citations from all 3000-plus special-forces personnel who deployed with the Special Operations Task Group in Afghanistan.

Mr Russell said the Brereton report was branding thousands of honourable soldiers who dedicated years of service and sacrifice to noble duty as presumed guilty over the alleged actions of a few and despite the presumption of innocence in our legal system.

“I am calling for common sense and respect to prevail in the treatment of soldiers who are not part of the investigation and to put a hold on any sanction until charges – which are yet to be laid – are decided by the courts,” Mr Russell said.

“Today I visited the commemorative plaques of special-forces members who have paid the ultimate sacrifice for their country and now stand to lose their citations as they are being punished because of these allegations.

“The families of our fallen heroes face the prospect of having honours stripped from their loved ones and their ultimate sacrifice reduced to scandal.”

Speaking to TV news crews at the AWM, former Major Russell took a serious swing at his former boss, CDF General Angus Campbell, for wearing a Conspicuous Service Cross for his command of Australians in action, including the Special Operations Task Group, during the time of the alleged war crimes.

“To then turn around and say via this report that he was unable to exercise effective command and control and to abdicate his command responsibility down to senior NCO, junior NCO and soldier level…

“…that’s not the sign of a leader – that is the sign of a politician – and that is one of the most disgusting demonstrations of senior leadership.

“That has made me very disappointed to call myself a military veteran and leader in this whole situation.”

Heston Russell recently launched the veteran lobby platform Voice of a Veteran.org and has instigated a petition lobbying to prevent the Meritorious Unit Citation being revoked for all Special Operations Task Group personnel.

https://www.voiceofaveteran.org/

The highlighted bit says it all.. In my Opinion...

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

I sure am glad that I never did served in the ADF now.
Boy to think that I was willing to serve but most others about 90% I knew when I left school had no intentions at all of serving because they were too gutless and wanted to lay back and sponge off the Nation, not to mention then have the audacity to mouth off and poke the finger at them who serve.
90% of Australians could not handle one day in Afghanistan dealing with the reality.
Oh I forgot ! don't ever stand up for our people who served, because the moderators will just wipe what you have to say.

At what point in your life did you realise your brain was broken?

Oh wait...

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

don't ever stand up for our people who served, because the moderators will just wipe what you have to say.

I think everybody on the forum, to some degree support those that serve the country.
That said, nobody is above the law (at our level) including those that serve.
The alleged crimes were also on the ground live time and I suggest not directed from above (authority).

That's the law(s) that they are in front of in a court, 'spontaneous reaction' 'blinded by dust' ' tomorrow he may be a problem' doesn't help I assume.

It appears they have enough evidence that bad **** went down. If those offenders had factual reasoning for their behaviour, I support that 100%

Saying that they are immune is inhumane

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

I sure am glad that I never did served in the ADF now.
Boy to think that I was willing to serve but most others about 90% I knew when I left school had no intentions at all of serving because they were too gutless and wanted to lay back and sponge off the Nation, not to mention then have the audacity to mouth off and poke the finger at them who serve.
90% of Australians could not handle one day in Afghanistan dealing with the reality.
Oh I forgot ! don't ever stand up for our people who served, because the moderators will just wipe what you have to say.

I don't know how to interpret this post but I think you need a reality check spewing out garbage.
There is one comment I never forgot from my dad who served in WWII in which he said to me "Son I hope you never experience what I went through as there is no glory in war but horrors" and guess what he was correct in that as war destroys lives.

[Cav]

From the Daily Telegraph...


SAS soldiers beg ADF to reconsider stripping bravery medals

They sacrificed their lives. They are not accused of any wrongdoing. Now, Defence is planning to strip their Meritorious Unit Citations despite calls to let them rest in peace.


Veterans are pleading with the Australian Defence Force to reconsider stripping bravery awards from entire Special Forces units who served in Afghanistan, saying the “rushed” decision has “ripped open the scars” of families who lost loved ones in the conflict.

A petition calling on Australia’s Chief of Defence Force Angus Campbell not to revoke the Meritorious Unit Citation awarded to the special operations task group in Afghanistan has already amassed 55,000 signatures in less than a week, as veterans call for the same “case-by-case” treatment offered to higher levels of the military.

Today, The Daily Telegraph launches a campaign, Save Their Medals, in support of the call for all veterans — living and dead — to retain their citation unless convicted of a war crime.

Earlier this month General Campbell said he would write to the Governor-General requesting he revoke the citation, given to about 3000 soldiers, after the release of a report detailing horrific *alleged war crimes.

But the government has since distanced itself from the recommendation, with Prime Minister Scott Morrison saying “decisions haven’t been made yet”.

Former 2nd Commando Regiment commander Heston Russell said the decision to strip the unit citation was particularly harsh for the families of Special Forces personnel who died in Afghanistan.

Sergeant Matthew Locke, 33, was on patrol when fatally wounded by small arms fire from Taliban extremists on October 25, 2007.

Private Luke Worsley, 26, was shot and killed by Taliban leaders after he shouted a warning to his fellow soldiers during a battle on November 23, 2007.

Lance Corporal Jason Marks, 27, was killed by gunfire on an operation to take a heavily defended Taliban position two days after Anzac Day in 2008.

Signaller Sean McCarthy, 25, was killed in a roadside bomb attack when the vehicle he was in drove over the 20kg explosive on July 8, 2008.

“Where is our moral responsibility with the way in which these families are being exposed to tearing open these scars,” he said.

“They are hurting so badly. Where is the moral responsibility of the government to do what is in the best interest of our people, especially those who have already suffered through the ultimate sacrifice of one of their family *members.”

Major Russell said General Campbell needs to “practice what he preached” when he committed to assessing commanders who received honours and awards on a “case-by-case basis”.

Major Russell has co-launched a petition calling for the citation not to be stripped, which has gained 55,000 *signatures and 35,000 comments in just six days.

Private Gregory Michael Sher, 30, died instantly when he was struck by a 107mm Taliban-fired rocket that failed to explode on January 4, 2009.

Bomb disposal technician Sergeant Brett Till, 31, was disarming a bomb when it exploded, killing him instantly on March 19, 2009.

Private Scott Palmer, 27, was killed on June 21, 2010, in a Black Hawk helicopter crash. The chopper crashed coming in to land. He was one of four casualties.
Private Timothy Aplin, 38, was killed on June 21, 2010, in a Black Hawk helicopter crash. The chopper crashed coming in to land. He was one of four casualties.
Liberal Herbert MP and Afghanistan veteran Phil Thompson said the families of the nation’s “bravest” who died in Afghanistan should not lose any award.

“They have done above and beyond, and they should not have to even think that something like this would even happen to their sons,” Mr Thompson said. He said the decision to individually consider awards and honours given to “armchair officers” who ran the conflict from the relative safety of a base in the United Arab Emirates (UAE), while tarring all units in *Afghanistan with the same brush, was “wrong”.

Private Benjamin Chuck, 27, was killed on June 21, 2010, in a Black Hawk helicopter crash. The chopper crashed coming in to land. He was one of four casualties.
Trooper Jason Brown, 29, was ambushed and died from multiple gunshot wounds in a clash with Taliban insurgents near a river bank on August 13, 2010.

Sergeant Brett Wood, 32, was killed by a roadside bomb attack during a clearance operation on May 23, 2011.

Sapper Rowan Robinson, 23, was killed by insurgent fire after his patrol destroyed an enemy weapons cache on June 6, 2011.

“Men and women in supporting roles or in the unit were putting themselves at a high risk of injury or being killed, who have done their job well, are now being *punished by the same people who were sitting in the *airconditioning in the UAE,” he said. “These armchair officers … have no idea what it’s like to be outside the wire, having friends injured or killed, rounds going over head, then being told their units will have their citation taken off them.”

Labor Solomon MP and East Timor veteran Luke Gosling said the “overwhelming” majority of the special forces units in Afghanistan “served with distinction”.

Sergeant Todd Langley, 35, was shot dead while leading his troops in a raid on an insurgent hide-out on July 4, 2011.

Sergeant Blaine Diddams, 40, was on a kill mission against an insurgent leader when he was shot and killed on July 2, 2012.

Private Nathanael Gallagher, 23, died in a helicopter crash during a planned raid on insurgent targets on August 30, 2012.

Lance Corporal Mervyn McDonald, 30, died in a helicopter crash during a planned raid on insurgent targets on August 30, 2012.

“It’s devastating to strip it from those who were mutilated by Improvised Explosive Devices (IED) or killed in action and had nothing to do with these crimes,” he said. “Their sacrifices should not be politicised, or denigrated.”

The MP, who also worked in security in Afghanistan, said his friend Ray Palmer, who lost his son Scott when a Blackhawk helicopter crashed in 2010, would be devastated to have the *citation revoked.

Corporal Scott James Smith, 24, was killed by a bomb blast during a compound clearance operation on October 21, 2012.

Corporal Cameron Stewart Baird, 32, was shot dead while trying to save a mortally wounded mate under fire on June 22, 2013.

Lance Corporal Todd Chidgey, 29, died from a gunshot wound in a non-combat-related incident in Afghanistan on July 1, 2014.

Lieutenant Michael Fussell, 25, died when he stood on the trigger of an insurgent bomb while on foot patrol on November 27, 2008.

“If we don’t treat this really carefully … it’s going to have a detrimental effect and even cost lives in terms of the morale of veterans,” he said.

Former 2RAR Platoon sergeant Justin Huggett, who was awarded a Medal for Gallantry during his time in Afghanistan, said the decision to strip the meritorious citation was creating an “incredible amount of tension and divide” in the defence community.

More Coverage
Medal strip threat: 40,000 Aussies fight to save soldiers Hanging Australia’s troops out to dry
“You would be kidding yourself if you think this isn’t going to have a terrible effect on the mental health of the veterans and defence community,” he said. “Afghanistan has cost us enough, people died and were wounded serving over there, and that conflict is still costing us lives.”

The Department of Defence did not confirm if or when the meritorious unit citation would be stripped when contacted by the Telegraph.

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

What I did say

Its a put up thing. Nobody woke up wanting to hang **** on service personnel but you imply anything is OK because we were not there.
We are not all prissy mick, and not all reports are false like you imply.

Just because they serve doesn't mean a free ticket to do whatever

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

No you type just keep hanging it on our boys like typical no hopers.

Lame response, need to do better than that. 'No Hopers', you dreamed that one.
Full respect for the service personnel, as if we don't have them in the family.

[PG2]

If any of you have a problem with this forum and/or the way it is moderated, you can either PM the mod involved or if you don't feel comfortable PMing the mod in question you can either PM a supermod or admin.

Posting having a go at the forums achieves nothing and those posts will be deleted.

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

Typical boy.

Who is coming, what have we missed ? Arm up !
Not everyone is uneducated mick apparently much to your surprise. Aussies as a majority don't run like dogs mick, history will show that.

Did you do a 'dog' act in another lifetime and now have regrets ?

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by PG2

If any of you have a problem with this forum

Only one ...

[LG17]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

Typical boy.

WTF??


What his dad said is reality!
Many WW2 fathers said exactly the same thing.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Mr_G6ET

Only one ...

Yep

Use the “Ignore” option like a lot do 👍

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

Typical

Mick you have no fkn idea of my background with ADF so don't assume anything about me.
What I can tell you If I knew someone who did the wrong by intentionally murder someone you can be assured I'd gladly put them in but if you talking about heat of battle when some unarmed civilian person gets caught in crossfire which could be construed as accidental well that different in my opinion.
Now get off your soap box and discuss rationally.

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Yep

Use the “Ignore” option like a lot do ��

As if we all think randoms are safe in a war 'event', but clearly murder is still not acceptable.

Accepting 'black and white' that service men are all innocent simply indicates that he is off his ****ing head

mick is suggesting their behaviour is 'normal', 'acceptable' ; sick really

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Mr_G6ET

As if we all think randoms are safe in a war 'event', but clearly murder is still not acceptable.

Accepting 'black and white' that service men are all innocent simply indicates that he is off his ****ing head

mick is suggesting their behaviour is 'normal', 'acceptable' ; sick really

Seeing as he's never been in the armed forces, let alone in a hostile environment, I very much doubt that he'd know what normal is.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

What I did say was wiped, because you can't handle the truth nowadays.
No you type just keep hanging it on our boys like typical no hopers.
Do you know the first thing about such things at all.
TV educated twerps.
Any of you claim to do better than our SAS in any way your dreaming !
We will start with discipline for just a start.

I seen a bloke up the road make claims like you lot do, he has never worked a day in his life pro dole bludger sponging off tax payer, directly go on the attack of our SAS FFS ! The Australian public truly know f all.
No one has been done for such in 5 years of investigation you clowns and we have 5 more years of this relentless smearing our SAS they claim.

Campbell is a total moron and I knew he was for years. shafting our SAS like so now with China now being a total moron ! come on ! I know what Campbell has being saying for years, he is a Traitor ! do not trust the clown at all.
I could tell you lot much more about him but the mods are just so very finicky that ya cant's say anything truly. no wonder Australia is becoming a dogs breakfast, with little prissy type views.

For someone that says he’s glad he’s never served you sure spew a lot of nonsense.
I’m not even Australian and I reckon I have more true respect for the ADF in my little finger than you do in your whole being.
You’re a tad unhinged and you should probably seek some professional help before you hurt yourself or someone else.

[FTE217]

GUYS Lets keep it together eh.
I don't want this important thread closed and I wouldn't be alone, this is close to our nerves period and I'm sure Cav also would be gutted he can't post up more info as it comes.
Chill.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

Slander !
I will not say anything other because of you diaper snowflakes.

I am a Sensei I dealt with people in the ADF how to fight. boy !
The Discipline that it takes to be in the SAS boy. so don't come the raw prawn with bagging our SAS snow flake, your diaper needs changing.

Is this you Mick???

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by PG2

Is this you Mick???

u ah, just humour, not negative