Day Time Running Lights

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by superfly

Far out, why does every thread seem to become an argument thread? Why not just answer the OP's question rather than starting arguments.

Can't believe how often it seems to happen on these forums. Even from moderators......

Makes you wonder doesn't it.

I didn't spend $400 to look like a pretty boy... I travel on country roads too and see the importance of these things. I was replacing headlight bulbs every 6 months as I was using the headlights as DRL's, these should be a cheaper option in the long run providing they fit my next purchase.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by superfly

Far out, why does every thread seem to become an argument thread? Why not just answer the OP's question rather than starting arguments.

Can't believe how often it seems to happen on these forums. Even from moderators......

Because it is a FORUM where things are debated.

It is interesting to note however that several on here including TWO moderators have significant driving experience in excess of a million kilometres and seem to agree on the same points.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by flappist

Because it is a FORUM where things are debated.

It is interesting to note however that several on here including TWO moderators have significant driving experience in excess of a million kilometres and seem to agree on the same points.

Funny how the findings from the research completed doesn't agree with you. I am sure Telstra would prefer to save $72 per car then spend it on daytime running lamp wiring kits which are useless as per your millions of km's of driving experience.

[superfly]

Originally Posted by flappist

Because it is a FORUM where things are debated.

Yes but in this case the debate should be about how to install them, not whether he needs them or not.

Originally Posted by flappist

It is interesting to note however that several on here including TWO moderators have significant driving experience in excess of a million kilometres and seem to agree on the same points.

Being a moderator doesn't make your point anymore valid then the next person. But the fact remains, the OP never asked for your opinion on DRL's.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Funny how the findings from the research completed doesn't agree with you. I am sure Telstra would prefer to save $72 per car then spend it on daytime running lamp wiring kits which are useless as per your millions of km's of driving experience.

Funny how findings from research tend to always favour those who pay for it.

Or have you forgotten about speed cameras, alcopop tax, carbon tax etc. etc. etc.......

Also funny how findings from research often tend to mutate when further evidence contradicts.....like global warming, I mean umm climate change....

But once a finding in made it never really goes away because that would mean that some academic was wrong which of course can never happen.
It is not all bad though, no front number plates on motorcycles is a good thing.....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by superfly

Yes but in this case the debate should be about how to install them, not whether he needs them or not.




Being a moderator doesn't make your point anymore valid then the next person. But the fact remains, the OP never asked for your opinion on DRL's.

Really, maybe you should read the thread again. Yes my opinion has no more validity than anyone else's but at least my posts are actually on the topic of DRLs.

Now back to the topic, which is DRLs fitted to older vehicles.

[superfly]

Originally Posted by flappist

Really, maybe you should read the thread again. Yes my opinion has no more validity than anyone else's but at least my posts are actually on the topic of DRLs.

Now back to the topic, which is DRLs fitted to older vehicles.

Errr maybe you should read the first post again. It only asks how to install his DRL's. Not what old vehicles have them, whether they are needed, legal etc.

I thought moderators were supposed to stop topics from going offtopic?

Here's a copy of the OP post.

Originally Posted by andrewwaters

Hi All,

I recently purchased a set of Day Time Running Lights and im wondering what is the best place to power them from?

I have a Sub and amp in the car and Neons aswell. The neons are power of the HU so im not sure where the best place to power from.

Taking in note that i would prefer the day lights to be on a seperate switch to all Lights so it can come on when i want.

e.g
Day Lights on and Headlights and parkers off.

I am driving a 2000 Ford Laser KN LXI

Let me know on your thoughts.

Cheers

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by flappist

Really, maybe you should read the thread again. Yes my opinion has no more validity than anyone else's but at least my posts are actually on the topic of DRLs.

Now back to the topic, which is DRLs fitted to older vehicles.

What value have you added to this thread? Your responses have been nothing but unconstructive and sarcastic. Time you gave yourself a holiday mate.

[Professor Farnsworth]

enough bickering, thread is on thin ice

stick to the topic and let's keep it factual and helpful

i might have missed it, but have any state motoring bodies written legislation specific to DRL's or have they not caught up yet?

i've also worn out a bulb or two on many thousands of highway km's and would welcome clear interpretation on the legalities.

[stev3n]

I'd pick up a wire from the ciggie lighter run it through a switch and out to the lights. This way you wont forget to turn the lights off because they will switch off with the ignition. Post some pics when you have finished

[JC]

I run mine (which are the angel eyes for BA falcon/Territory) off the windscreen wiper power circuit - because it's under the bonnet and easy to get to. I have no switch, so they are always on when the car is on.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by Ben73

How many times after a car crash does the driver say, "I didn't see him" even though it was the middle of the day.

Maybe if a car had these DRL(or any lights on) they might be noticed a bit more, which can only be a good thing.

So more lights = less accidents?
HA ha.

The reason they say "I didn't see him" is because they didn't look!

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by basteve

People buy cars with colors that blend into the surrounding like black, bitumen grey/silver and others and then want to make their cars more noticeable during the day? its like having a Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk stealth jet and then put drls on it for daytime running. Choose a color that stands out a bit if you really want to be noticed. Overall that would be the safest option i would think. Drls have been implemented because people with unsafe colors need them due to the high incidence of not seeing them without drls.

Tend to agree, but nobody sees my car and it isnt exactly a dark colour. So many times people pull out in front or merge without looking.

I now have my lights on all the time.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by superfly

Far out, why does every thread seem to become an argument thread? Why not just answer the OP's question rather than starting arguments.

Can't believe how often it seems to happen on these forums. Even from moderators......

but that would make this place boring. these threads would not run for three pages and we'd have no reason to come by.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

So more lights = less accidents?
HA ha.

The reason they say "I didn't see him" is because they didn't look!

That's the difference right there.
Visibility and Attention are 2 different things.

If you're not paying attention - no amount of DRL's are going to save you.....

I've lost count on the number of times I've seen people blocking Ambulances or cutting them off / not getting out of their way in intersections etc....... Radio too loud / fiddling with the ipod or phone or just plain too inattentive to be stuffed driving in the 1st place. If you can be that ignorant with an AMBULANCE with flashing lights and sirens - you've got no hope.

Our cars have become mobile offices / entertainment venues and hairdressing salons for some - the critical aspect of being on the roads - ATTENTION and ALERTNESS - has been lost on many drivers......you see it every day in droves.

We don't need DRL's - we need electric seats to give you a good ZAPP in the @$$ every 5 minutes to keep us awake and alert............

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by ESP

That's the difference right there.
Visibility and Attention are 2 different things.

If you're not paying attention - no amount of DRL's are going to save you.....

I've lost count on the number of times I've seen people blocking Ambulances or cutting them off / not getting out of their way in intersections etc....... Radio too loud / fiddling with the ipod or phone or just plain too inattentive to be stuffed driving in the 1st place. If you can be that ignorant with an AMBULANCE with flashing lights and sirens - you've got no hope.

Our cars have become mobile offices / entertainment venues and hairdressing salons for some - the critical aspect of being on the roads - ATTENTION and ALERTNESS - has been lost on many drivers......you see it every day in droves.

We don't need DRL's - we need electric seats to give you a good ZAPP in the @$$ every 5 minutes to keep us awake and alert............

Exactly!

[Matty4]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Nah I bought these, they are called Strike R1's and look identical to the oem foglamps.

http://www.strike.com.au/products/Da.../Strike-R1-DRL

Fit in the same position using the same hardware, just a different wiring harness.

image

Whilst I'm not going to enter the debate about them.
I just have a question about the ones fitted to replace the factory fogs.

What's to stop an over-zealous cop from pulling you over and fining you for having the "foglights" on during clear weather?
Start to argue that they're not and they could potentially send you on your way with a nice big yellow sticker on your windscreen because you couldn't turn your "foglights" off.
At least if they are factory or even aftermarket and fitted so as to look aftermarket, you may not have this issue crop up.
Food for thought...

[GasoLane]

I think a few people are getting confused with City and Country driving re DRL's

When driving in Towns there are so many distractions, and speeds a lot slower, that they would probably be next to useless.

Whereas on Country roads, especially single lane ones, they could help oncoming drivers pick you out sooner.

[kempy311]

Originally Posted by Matty4

Whilst I'm not going to enter the debate about them.
I just have a question about the ones fitted to replace the factory fogs.

What's to stop an over-zealous cop from pulling you over and fining you for having the "foglights" on during clear weather?
Start to argue that they're not and they could potentially send you on your way with a nice big yellow sticker on your windscreen because you couldn't turn your "foglights" off.
At least if they are factory or even aftermarket and fitted so as to look aftermarket, you may not have this issue crop up.
Food for thought...

Carry the appropriate proof that they are legal then show the cop if requested.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Matty4

Whilst I'm not going to enter the debate about them.
I just have a question about the ones fitted to replace the factory fogs.

What's to stop an over-zealous cop from pulling you over and fining you for having the "foglights" on during clear weather?
Start to argue that they're not and they could potentially send you on your way with a nice big yellow sticker on your windscreen because you couldn't turn your "foglights" off.
At least if they are factory or even aftermarket and fitted so as to look aftermarket, you may not have this issue crop up.
Food for thought...

They have paperwork with them, and also have DRL on the lense with the EU stamp next do it.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I think a few people are getting confused with City and Country driving re DRL's

When driving in Towns there are so many distractions, and speeds a lot slower, that they would probably be next to useless.

Whereas on Country roads, especially single lane ones, they could help oncoming drivers pick you out sooner.

For example the Cunningham highway, which I travel up to 3 times a month.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

They have paperwork with them, and also have DRL on the lense with the EU stamp next do it.

In addition, the DRL's which Dash GT has, look alot different to the standard foggies, with four distinct LED's in each light.

[russellw]

The definitive answer in Victoria is thus:

(Vehicles) Regulations 2009 the following are approved modifications.
This approval does not apply to a modification that has been carried out in a manner that does not comply or would cause the vehicle not to comply with a Standard for Registration:

- additional lighting, forward and rearward facing lamps which comply with the Standards for Registration

Given that correctly fitted and wired DRL's meet the standards for registration they are perfectly legal.

ADR76/00 (in the Tech portal) deals specifically with approval for DRL's.

In part it defines them:

For the purpose of this regulation:
2.1. "Daytime running lamp" means a lamp facing in a forward direction used to make the vehicle more easily visible when driving during daytime;

ADR45/01 specifies the requirements for lamps not covered elsewhere in terms of photometric capabilities.

45.3.7. ‘DAYTIME RUNNING LAMP’
45.3.7.1. Colour of light emitted White.
45.3.7.2. Intensity of light emitted
45.3.7.2.1. Minimum: 130 cd on the axis of reference; 0.3 cd within the angles of light distribution of clause 45.3.7.3.
45.3.7.2.2. Maximum: 520 cd in any direction.
45.3.7.2.3. In each direction corresponding to the points in the light distribution table reproduced in Table 1, be not less than the product of 130 cd by the percentage specified in the said Table for the direction in question.
45.3.7.3. Angles of light distribution. Vertical: from 15° above to 15° below the horizontal. Horizontal: from 45° inwards to 80° outwards.

Might I add that anyone who doesn't believe they are a useful addition (and they will be mandatory one day) is simply ignoring the years of research that has gone into them. Spending most of my time on country roads around dawn and dusk, I can't believe how many people deem it perfectly acceptable to drive in those conditions with no visible lighting and even during the middle of an overcast day the improvement in visibility from DRL's or normal headlamps being on during the day is orders of magnitude.

Cheers
Russ

[Kevaclone]

Originally Posted by flappist

I look forward to your views after you have driven a MILLION kilometres on rural QLD roads......

I meant to say hundreds of klms every day

for 5 years between 2001 and 2006 I did Brisbane to Dalby, Miles or Wandoan and return daily
one truck racked up over 800,000 klms in 4 years, that was just one job I had
been driving fuel tankers for over 20 years

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by russellw

Might I add that anyone who doesn't believe they are a useful addition (and they will be mandatory one day) is simply ignoring the years of research that has gone into them. Spending most of my time on country roads around dawn and dusk, I can't believe how many people deem it perfectly acceptable to drive in those conditions with no visible lighting and even during the middle of an overcast day the improvement in visibility from DRL's or normal headlamps being on during the day is orders of magnitude.

Cheers
Russ

and here we were for years hanging shyte on all those Volvo drivers who drove arund in the 80's with their 'daytime driving lights' on

[Keepleft]

Canberra won't mandate ADR 76 function despite the campaign a year or so back by Australia's AAA affilliates, citing 'we don't have the lower background illumination in daytime you get in parts of the EU, and see no statistical evidence of a need for change'. We keep the rule as 'optional' for the foreseable future. (We are operating on an 'evidenced based' system in AUS).

Our 'optional' fitment under ADR, has allowed importers to permit the disabling of the DRL function by the driver, and some makes like BMW therefore, have a method drivers can use to deactivate the function. If ever mandated a la EU and Israel, then that 'ability' in AUS to deactivate the DRL function will be removed.

ADR applies to new to market vehicles, then the NVS (National Vehicle Standards) then apply once the car is sold off the showroom floor. That said, much of the NVS are virtual reprints of ADR, each are national documents.

NHTSA FINDS NO SIGNIFICANT BENEFIT FOR DRLS - See lightsout link
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documen...2008-0153-0004

http://lightsout.org/index.html

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has recently released a technical report finds DRLs are of practically no use, and further admits that DRLs have negative safety consequences. In NHTSA's own words:

"The analysis found that DRLs have no statistically significant overall effect on the three target crashes. When combining these three target crashes into one target crash, the drl effects were also not statistically significant. When examined separately for passenger cars and light trucks / van (LTVs) , drls in LTVs significantly reduced LTVs involvement in the target two vehicle by 5.7 percent. However, the remaining drl effects on these three target crashes were not statistically significiant. Although not statistically significant, drls might have unintended consequences for pedestrains and motorcycles. Particularly, the estimated negitive effects for LTV's were relatively large and cannont be completely ignored.

"Currently the NHTSA is in the rulemaking process in response to General Motors (GM) petition to mandate DRLs. This report will affect the rulemaking decision. Therefore the report is considered to contain 'highly influential scientific information'."

Personally, I'll switch low-beam headlights for the rare occasions when driving west of the Great Dividing Range, and the heat-mirage masking effect highlighted by some here, can come into play.

Poor visibility is another matter; it IS mandatory to have either your low-beam, and/or parkers and front fog lights ON under hazardous weather conditions, period! Like it is everywhere else on earth.

I suggest per ADR and UNECE, NOT wiring a DRL to operate on parkers, but some compliant LED DRL products will have the lamp type offering a 'parker' function via reduced illumination. If you go this path, deactivate your cars factory park lights, as having two sets of park lights brings the car into ADR/NVS conflict as 'grouping' of lamps and functions becomes a compliance issue, a la the BF "decorative lamps" situation, as some of you will recall.

[BigAL_250]

Hang on, so did that say that DRL's have no real impact on crashes, that have already happened?

Of course 2 little lights are going to have no bearing on the events in a crash, the idea is that the crash is avoided all together by providing extra visibility!

Is that an American report?

[superfly]

Originally Posted by BigAL_250

Is that an American report?

Sure is.


I remember driving from Brisbane to Wagga Wagga back in 91 and there was a stretch of highway that had signs saying something like "Please turn on your lights. It's safer".

At the end of the day though, if you want to fit DRL's then go for it.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by basteve

People buy cars with colors that blend into the surrounding like black, bitumen grey/silver and others and then want to make their cars more noticeable during the day? its like having a Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk stealth jet and then put drls on it for daytime running. Choose a color that stands out a bit if you really want to be noticed. Overall that would be the safest option i would think. Drls have been implemented because people with unsafe colors need them due to the high incidence of not seeing them without drls.

Who cares if you increase your visibility buy owning a bright coloured car, or buy having your lights on. Whatever you feel safest with, just do it.



I think having lights on, even on sunny days even makes a car more noticeable.

On country roads during the day I have notice lights coming towards me way of in the distance, then a few seconds later also notice there is another car with no lights on between me and the first car I saw.

[basteve]

Im not sure if they are legal on an older car. They must be wired like the new cars operation i think if you really have to. I have seen on many other forums people who have new cars that come standard with them and asking forum members how to disable them???? At the end of the day i suppose its good to be safe but some choices outside of drl remedy defeats what is trying to be achieved overall . Check with Vicoads on how to implement drls its only a phone call to be really safe.