RWD all-Australian Falcon future hanging in the balance

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I personally still feel that Mondeo will replace Falcon in 2013, why people keep suggesting Taurus is beyond me. If anything the Mondeo and Taurus will share their next chassis and the skin finish will depend on the local markets taste.

i.e Europe will keep the Mondeo name and will build a car to euro tatse, US will still call their car the Taurus and place a large chrome grill on the front to please american taste, whether or not Australia will call their car the Falcon or not remains to be seen. But it will receive subtle changes to suit the Oz market.

Ford US has already announced that the next gen Mondeo and Fusion will share the same platform. They also announced yesterday that Ford will no longer share platforms with Mazda but instead design their own original platforms, so expect the next gen Mondeo and Fusion to be on the Mondeo architecture or a completely new architecture.

The 2010 Taurus shares the platform with the Lincoln MKS. I believe these vehicles will share the same platform for a while to come. The MKS was the first to use it. Mulally had the engineers design a new Taurus, that would be deserving of the famed Taurus name, from it.


Steve

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by GTP006

I love Ford but no RWD = no more Fords for me.

This brings back flashbacks to 1980 for me when the US was moving to front wheel drive cars, when previously a FWD car was only a Japanese car, maybe some Euro cars. Me and a bunch of people I knew would never have a FWD car. Also, because of all the computer controls that were coming out guys were going to go to the junkyards and buy up Chevy 350's to have at home and replace their engines in their cars so that they could continue to drive a non-computer controlled car.

Neither of these stands came to fruition.


Steve

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by T3ts50

I cant see why Falcon and Mustang cant share the same platform.

....like they originally did. Funny, seems like it could even be a good marketing scheme, eh? A little bit of nostaligia.


Steve

[747jet]

if falcon goes fwd count me out its looks like my keeping my f6 for a bit longer

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Arent people sick of posting threads on this topic what seems like every week???

Say it long enough and people will start to believe it, the media killed Mitsubishi Australia, next in their sights is obviously Ford.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

This brings back flashbacks to 1980 for me when the US was moving to front wheel drive cars,

I remember driving an '81 Cadillac Seville. quite an advanced car with cyclinder deactivation on a fuel injected 350..... and FWD. Nice idea that one :

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Say it long enough and people will start to believe it, the media killed Mitsubishi Australia, next in their sights is obviously Ford.

What killed mitsi was the 380.. which was a fwd american car with different sheet metal.. now that is scary!

[Airmon]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Funny thing is that all these people who will never buy another Falcon if it goes FWD never have bought a brand new one anyway.............

Which means if there is a FWD Falcon all us bogans who don't buy new cars wont be buying 2nd hand FWD Falcons, which means crappy resale which leads to a drop in new car sales which leads us back to where we are now.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Airmon

Which means if there is a FWD Falcon all us bogans who don't buy new cars wont be buying 2nd hand FWD Falcons, which means crappy resale which leads to a drop in new car sales which leads us back to where we are now.

Come on, you really want Ford to continue making RWD cars so you can clean up at the auctions when they come off their lease? This is why the Falcon will die, there is not enough demand from the general public for brand new vehicles.

[imugli]

I still say Mondeo and Fusion will share platform, Taurus and Falcon will share a stretched AWD version of this.

[eb2fairmont]

No decison on Falcon is to be made until late next year. So in the meantime factor in a global recovery and the fact the the seppos need to renew mustang around 2013....

It will fall into place. Just pray that the camaro savages mustang sales and they suddenly need a platform with IRS, room for a v8 and has all the r and D paid for....

oh who has one of those? we do!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Good job !

Are there another 3000 here ? Per Month ?

Ask BFIIPursuit the way he changes cars he probably accounts for half the Ford sales. lol

I agree that if you don't buy new cars then you really don't matter as there are plenty of second hand RWD Falcons out there.

[Airmon]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Come on, you really want Ford to continue making RWD cars so you can clean up at the auctions when they come off their lease? This is why the Falcon will die, there is not enough demand from the general public for brand new vehicles.

Yes. And hopefully when I'm in a position to purchase a new car there will still be the RWD Falcon to choose from.

The fact that there are plenty of quality cars to be had for half their original price that are 12 months old is not helping new car sales. Supply has outstripped demand, and as you say the number of people buying new cars has peaked and is now dropping off. Would you say new cars have been pumped out faster then cars have been scrapped and taken off the road permanently? It was inevitable that sales would plateau and drop off, a number of factors have contributed to this, but I'm arguing that making a falcon FWD will not solve it.

If the Falcon goes FWD and it wont be recieved aswell in the 2nd hand market, then their resale will go down, and people will stop buying Falcons due to bad resale. And the downward spiral goes on.

[Eu-GenixX]

falcon resale is shocking atm as it is...

[cosmo20btt]

So what ever happened with the deal between Rudd & geelong to continue making the l6 after 2013? were they just going to stick them all in airports tugs?

[The Stylist]

I can't say I'm too bothered with all the doom and gloom sentiment going around here at the moment, as long as the Falcon and Mustang merge platforms then we don't have much to worry about. (If).

[Polyal]

Well see I dont think its the actual platform thats the issue.

Even if falcon and mustang share its the sheet metal and specific parts that actually have a huge cost.

So its either Ford global have one RWD platform for the stang and thats it, or they share platform and design globaly aswell.

Personally I cant see why they cant have a global RWD sedan and do it right, BMW and Merc seem to get away with it (different budgets I know but same philosophy).

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Well see I dont think its the actual platform thats the issue.

Even if falcon and mustang share its the sheet metal and specific parts that actually have a huge cost.

So its either Ford global have one RWD platform for the stang and thats it, or they share platform and design globaly aswell.

Personally I cant see why they cant have a global RWD sedan and do it right, BMW and Merc seem to get away with it (different budgets I know but same philosophy).

Does this mean that US can get a Mustang ute after global rwd? Personally I think they will have to commit to Falcon or we lose it, after all Fomocoa have been here before, If they take it away it will be the end of sales for them with the ute being as good a seller as the commodore ute.

[Road_Warrior]

The thing I can't reconcile is: why bother with developing a FWD Falcon when there is the Mondeo and Fusion, with the Mondeo being similar with interior space anyway?? And it's already here, not scheduled to be here in 2013?? Seems kind of pointless creating that sort of duplicity which goes against the whole "one Ford" thing.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Airmon

Yes. And hopefully when I'm in a position to purchase a new car there will still be the RWD Falcon to choose from.

The fact that there are plenty of quality cars to be had for half their original price that are 12 months old is not helping new car sales. Supply has outstripped demand, and as you say the number of people buying new cars has peaked and is now dropping off. Would you say new cars have been pumped out faster then cars have been scrapped and taken off the road permanently? It was inevitable that sales would plateau and drop off, a number of factors have contributed to this, but I'm arguing that making a falcon FWD will not solve it.

If the Falcon goes FWD and it wont be recieved aswell in the 2nd hand market, then their resale will go down, and people will stop buying Falcons due to bad resale. And the downward spiral goes on.

i think you hit the nail on the head , i`ve been thinking along those lines for some years now, the market is just too crowded with cars, unless the government`s bring out and order for old Inefficient junkers to hit the crusher this will continue, now there`s an idea the polly`s could start making rego cheaper for new cars and when a car hits say 7 years old or perhaps 10 y/o every year make the rego more expensive until its painfull to own an old car , with exceptions to club/weekend registered cars.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The thing I can't reconcile is: why bother with developing a FWD Falcon when there is the Mondeo and Fusion, with the Mondeo being similar with interior space anyway?? And it's already here, not scheduled to be here in 2013?? Seems kind of pointless creating that sort of duplicity which goes against the whole "one Ford" thing.

I dont think they would bother with a FWD Falcon, it will be canned altogether or a rebadging effort on what ever alternative is around at the time.

Anyway, not many actual facts around at this stage.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The thing I can't reconcile is: why bother with developing a FWD Falcon when there is the Mondeo and Fusion, with the Mondeo being similar with interior space anyway?? And it's already here, not scheduled to be here in 2013?? Seems kind of pointless creating that sort of duplicity which goes against the whole "one Ford" thing.

Why would they replace the Falcon with a Mondeo that they can't even sell 400 of in a month?


If Falcon goes FWD/AWD it will be the end of Falcon as we know it. It will mean no I6, no V8, no FPV, no manuals and no ute or wagon. It would mean there might be one performance model with a turbo V6 and that will be it. It will cease to be anything resembling a Falcon. If they do go that way they might a well just kill off the Falcon name for good, cause it will be a failure and will severly tarnish the name. I would rather they called it something else.

The thing is, if GM can make the Camaro and Commodore share the same platform, why can't they do it with Falcon and Mustang. The Mustang will soon need IRS to keep pace with the Camaro, and the Falcon needs another model to share R&D costs with. Seems to me that HQ is Detroit is just too damn stubborn to use anything developed outside the US for their legendary icon. Its that stubbornness that has nearly driven them into the ground. They should maybe remember that the original Mustang was built off a Falcon platform.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Why would they replace the Falcon with a Mondeo that they can't even sell 400 of in a month?

If Falcon goes FWD/AWD it will be the end of Falcon as we know it. It will mean no I6, no V8, no FPV, no manuals and no ute or wagon. It would mean there might be one performance model with a turbo V6 and that will be it. It will cease to be anything resembling a Falcon. If they do go that way they might a well just kill off the Falcon name for good, cause it will be a failure and will severly tarnish the name. I would rather they called it something else.

The thing is, if GM can make the Camaro and Commodore share the same platform, why can't they do it with Falcon and Mustang. The Mustang will soon need IRS to keep pace with the Camaro, and the Falcon needs another model to share R&D costs with. Seems to me that HQ is Detroit is just too damn stubborn to use anything developed outside the US for their legendary icon. Its that stubbornness that has nearly driven them into the ground. They should maybe remember that the original Mustang was built off a Falcon platform.

It might only sell 400 a month now, but what about 3 years time? Petrol prices are only going to creep upwards again, and they make a longwheelbase version of the Mondeo for China, so the tooling does exist. Is the Mondeo available with a V6? If not then could they shoehorn that 3.5 Duratec V6 in it?

Agree 100% with the rest of your post though. Also, I'm not sure whether GoAuto are absent-minded, or whether things at Ford are changing rather rapidly, but GoAuto said this in March:

Mr Burela said he believed the inline six-cylinder engine made at Geelong would continue for at least five years after its emissions performance was lifted to Euro IV levels.

“We feel the engine is about right until 2014-2015,” he said. “We’ll have to wait and see how legislators move in terms of engine standards.

“When we get to 2012 we will be re-looking at it: whether we continue to upgrade the technology on the I6 engine to move it forward or whether we have to make a change.”

and they said this in January:

Mr Kuzak revealed that Ford Australia would not adopt the latest Taurus unveiled this week at the Detroit show, adding that there are no plans to market it anywhere else in the world other than in the US.

“At this point, (the Taurus) is only a North American vehicle,” he said.

Mr Kuzak went on to express admiration for the latest FG Falcon program, and emphasised that the current model released less than a year ago still has plenty of life left in it, so there was no need to rush into a decision about its eventual replacement.

“We have a very capable rear-wheel drive platform in Australia, and we don’t have to change that tomorrow. So we have time to look through and see what the alternatives are – rear-wheel drive or front-wheel drive ... we have not made a decision yet.”

[cosmo20btt]

Falcon now has a fuel mileage equivalent to a 4 cylinder camry yet supplies good high outputs, there would have to be some thing very wrong with Ford to change it now to a v6 & a FWD to boot.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

Falcon now has a fuel mileage equivalent to a 4 cylinder camry yet supplies good high outputs, there would have to be some thing very wrong with Ford to change it now to a v6 & a FWD to boot.

Ford would be smarter in reducing the weight or even making it a little smaller. This would yeild a better result then having to engineer the car to a V6 FWD.

[Ohio XB]

Just to muddy the waters a little more......


A few years ago there was talk at Ford about building more cars on the Mustang platform. It seems rediculous to only have one single car on that platform, so the end result of this thinking was the Interceptor concept car.





This was the early development of the 3 bar grill design that we see on many Fords now.



Steve

[rob20v]

I can't see the Mondeo or Taurus being the replacment for the Falcon as these models just don't have the apeal to costomers in this country. The only realistic option is for the Falcon platform to become the rear wheel drive platform for the Ford World, replacing Crown Vic and Lincoln Town Car. This is all dependant on Ford in the US making the decision on which rear wheel drive platform remains and who is going to build it. Most likely Australia will loose it in favour of employing Americans. Just remember that Ford Aust is only about 1% of the Ford World.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

Just to muddy the waters a little more......


A few years ago there was talk at Ford about building more cars on the Mustang platform. It seems rediculous to only have one single car on that platform, so the end result of this thinking was the Interceptor concept car.





This was the early development of the 3 bar grill design that we see on many Fords now.



Steve

The CAFE regulations have them all running away from RWD though, as they think they can get an extra 1mpg out of a FWD vehicle compared to a RWD one. That is basically why they canned Global RWD.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The CAFE regulations have them all running away from RWD though, as they think they can get an extra 1mpg out of a FWD vehicle compared to a RWD one. That is basically why they canned Global RWD.

There are ways around the CAFE regulations though and it doesn't sit well with me if they use CAFE as the only reason to kill a high performance line.

Firstly CAFE is not compulsory, it will attract a civil penalty if they don't comply. For example, I crunched some numbers on FPV volumes and probable penalties on their future drivetrain (my madeup but hopefully close the mark numbers), the extra cost could be easily built into the retail price. I'm sure the customer would be happy to take it on to be able to buy and drive the performance car that they really want. Alternatively, i'm sure some sneaky accounting will take care of Ford civil penalties anyway.

Secondly, they can gain CAFE credits by exceeding CAFE regulations... one would think this will be highly probable when the ecoboost engines are powering many of Fords new small cars which would be of high volume globally.

Remember, CAFE is the Corporate Average, and i'm predicting the small, fuel efficient cars to be selling much higher volumes than the performance models that may not conform to future CAFE regulations.

So I remain optimistic.

[madmelon]

...about the most optimistic article about Falcon I've read in a long while, even if it is only to sink the boot into goauto. Seems they have even discussed points approached in this very thread.

http://carpoint.com.au/news/2009/lar...o-be-set-14848