beat the system. :)

[poolkeeper]

Originally Posted by 30487256

It would be interesting to see whether these car restriction laws are acutally working. VIC and NSW probably have way more deaths than WA or SA (which don't have any restrictions). I am aware of the population differences.

NSW- double the deaths, Since they brought in this stupid rule. And most likely they will be keeping it in place. They want to triple it...

[MrEL]

The law whilst good in therory somewhat lacks in practice. What they are saying is a P plater driving a 302 ZH Marquis that would not pull the skin off a rice pudding is going to die because it is a V8 , but the same P plater can drive a new BF XT ute and its ok because it is a six they will be safe? What a load of ****!
Yes something has to be done but they need to find a practical solution , not these little band aid fixes to keep the majority of misinformed twits happy.

[Bucket]

It should all be done based on Power to Weight Ratio's....Just like Motor Bikes... Cant' exceed X Kw/Per Tonne

[XFshep]

well arent we all a bunch of big whingers eh?

assuming this certificate is legitimate then whats the problem, how many of you drove V8s on your P's back in the day?

personally, i love living in WA, no P plate restrictions and dont have to drag your car over the pits unless you forget to pay the rego.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by MrEL

The law whilst good in therory somewhat lacks in practice. What they are saying is a P plater driving a 302 ZH Marquis that would not pull the skin off a rice pudding is going to die because it is a V8 , but the same P plater can drive a new BF XT ute and its ok because it is a six they will be safe? What a load of ****!
Yes something has to be done but they need to find a practical solution , not these little band aid fixes to keep the majority of misinformed twits happy.

Yeah that's what I've never understood about this law from day 1.

Alot of old V8s will get flogged by a modern 4 or 6, yet the 8 is banned and you have some 6s making alot more power, but have the A-ok?

They should look into power to weight, instead of number of cylinders and aspiration. Just because it has a V8 under the bonnet, doesn't mean it's fast.

[XFshep]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Yeah that's what I've never understood about this law from day 1.

Alot of old V8s will get flogged by a modern 4 or 6, yet the 8 is banned and you have some 6s making alot more power, but have the A-ok?

They should look into power to weight, instead of number of cylinders and aspiration. Just because it has a V8 under the bonnet, doesn't mean it's fast.

believe it or not politicians rarely have much working knowledge on what they are making decisions about.

[Sledgehammer]

Originally Posted by Laminge

Somehow I don't believe this certificate thing

I'd like a certificate so that I can take my race car on the road......LOL

[poolkeeper]

Its NOT the car, ITS the driver...

[XR8-260]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Yeah that's what I've never understood about this law from day 1.

Alot of old V8s will get flogged by a modern 4 or 6, yet the 8 is banned and you have some 6s making alot more power, but have the A-ok?

They should look into power to weight, instead of number of cylinders and aspiration. Just because it has a V8 under the bonnet, doesn't mean it's fast.

Torque is another factor that should be considered as it contributes to wheelspin and ultimately loss of control for an inexperienced driver. A lot of the older I6/V6/V8s may not have that much power but they have bags of torque. When conbimed with cheap old tyres, wet roads and recklessness its an accident waiting to happen.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Australia and Germany have the same amount of deaths on the road each year. Except... Germany has 3 to 4 times the amount of people compared to Australia. So per capita they are far far better. And they can drive anything at any age and on some roads go as fast as they want. Uhm?

Originally Posted by Steffo

Australia has 20,264,082 people according to the CIA World Factbook. Germany has 82,422,299 people according to the same source.

Therefore... 1500 Australian's is 0.074% of our population. 5800 Germans is 0.070% of their population.

I have here with me the March 2005 edition of Wheels which has some statistics on how well Australia fairs against EU nations in deaths per 100,000 people on the roads. They're 2002-based statistics.

Australia = 8.7 deaths per 100,000.

Germany scored 8.3.?

Bit different when you have the statistics! 8.7 per capita vs 8.3 per capita......Thats a lot of people gone and dont think either are far far better off.

ONCE someone has had the experience on the road.......good on em and then go hell for leather....drive the most powerful, unstoppable car you can! Till then, its practice. Its only for a short time!

By the way....if people can stop generalising with unsubstantiated claims.......a P plate can drive an LTD with 351 Cleveland or a 302 ZH Marquis till their little hearts content. In fact most 302 V8 is avaialbe to a P plater in vic! The list isnt perfect but its a start. And if you check the list.......A BA I6 CANNOT be driven by a P plater? I think they have mucked up the KW's next to it! Power to weight ratio is about the most acurate way you can go.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rd...elspre2004.pdf



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[Steffo]

Originally Posted by auslandau

Bit different when you have the statistics! 8.7 per capita vs 8.3 per capita......Thats a lot of people gone and dont think either are far far better off.

ONCE someone has had the experience on the road.......good on em and then go hell for leather....drive the most powerful, unstoppable car you can! Till then, its practice. Its only for a short time!

By the way....if people can stop generalising with unsubstantiated claims.......a P plate can drive an LTD with 351 Cleveland or a 302 ZH Marquis till their little hearts content. In fact most 302 V8 is avaialbe to a P plater in vic! The list isnt perfect but its a start. And if you check the list.......A BA I6 CANNOT be driven by a P plater? I think they have mucked up the KW's next to it! Power to weight ratio is about the most acurate way you can go.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rd...elspre2004.pdf

I'm talking about the NSW system. Which is anything Turbo, Supercharged, with 8 cyl or more, or 6cyls with 200kW or more are banned. Regardless. Our P-Plates can drive a 190kW BF XR6 but can't drive a 110kW Volvo S40.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I'm talking about the NSW system. Which is anything Turbo, Supercharged, with 8 cyl or more, or 6cyls with 200kW or more are banned. Regardless. Our P-Plates can drive a 190kW BF XR6 but can't drive a 110kW Volvo S40.

My appologies.....I am talking about the vic roads which is a bit better with power/weight compared to just banning v8's or whatever. That doesnt make sense



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[I FluXx I]

Dose he work and pay for the car? Or dose he get money from his parents and thenpay for the car?

If he works to pay for the car I couldnt care less. Its these stupid brats that get spoiled and there parents buy them an expensive car that **** me off.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by I FluXx I

Dose he work and pay for the car? Or dose he get money from his parents and thenpay for the car?

If he works to pay for the car I couldnt care less. Its these stupid brats that get spoiled and there parents buy them an expensive car that **** me off.

I cant help myself in this thread but really need to ask.......WHY should it worry you so much? (Swaying a bit more from topic)



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[XFshep]

Originally Posted by Polyal

A right...LOL...rights are something you are born with, not something you earn. I think the word you are looking for is privilege.

It might be a necessity to some, but there are other ways of getting around for those who stupid enough to think that powerful cars and inexperience are not potentially dangerous. If you can lower the risk then why not?!

There will be exceptions to every rule, but just because you were born with a steering wheel in your hands does not mean that you are exempt from a law/rule.

i disagree with your general way of thinking on rights and privileges, why should i not be allowed to drive the car i want to when ive proven i can drive to the 'standards' required. why should i not have the right to do things i enjoy, i pay for roads, public healthcare etc by sinking all my time into our economy just like everyone else.

and no offence but who are you to define what someones rights are and are not.

[Bill_R]

Originally Posted by Bucket

In NSW (the only state as far as i know) the RTA have a permit that will allow P plater's to drive cars that are outside the normal laws (no V8's/Turbo's) for reasons such as Job (i.e construction might use a V8 Ute) or your company gave you a Turbo car etc or it is the only car in the family. This permit came into act early last year. It does exist.

I thought this exemption applied to family V8 (where it is the only family car) but http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/...onditions.html says:
"The principal family vehicle is a moderate performance turbo/supercharged engine vehicle."
It then goes on to list those vehicles.
Also, there is a country exemption but it only applies to "Eight or more cylinder 4WD vehicles are required by country drivers who have no practical alternative.".
Work purposes allows anything as long as a stat dec is supplied.

The exemption form doesn't say anything about a "family car" so I assume that is covered under "exceptional circumstance" or "other reason" which *should* cover a family V8.

These rules are a joke. It should be power/weight.

[XR8-260]

Originally Posted by I FluXx I

Dose he work and pay for the car? Or dose he get money from his parents and thenpay for the car?

If he works to pay for the car I couldnt care less. Its these stupid brats that get spoiled and there parents buy them an expensive car that **** me off.

I don't think it's fair to call them spoilt brats just because they were given the car. :

If someone offered me a free car i would take it without hesitation. :Reverend:

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by XFshep

i disagree with your general way of thinking on rights and privileges, why should i not be allowed to drive the car i want to when ive proven i can drive to the 'standards' required. why should i not have the right to do things i enjoy, i pay for roads, public healthcare etc by sinking all my time into our economy just like everyone else.

and no offence but who are you to define what someones rights are and are not.

No thats fair enough.

A right is something like freedom of speech, or any of that other stuff that people have died over fighting for. Driving a car does NOT come into the category.

This is all a beat up by people that cannot just suck it up and abid by the law. How is it bad? It doesn't stop you from getting around, or are some people that ugly and have no personality that they think they need their car to pull chicks?

Seriously, you have your P's for what, two years or so, thats hardly an inconvenience.

There are such bigger issues in the world to get worked up over than what bloody car you can drive while you are gathering experience.

No one has given a reason as to why a P plater needs an overly powerful car. The only reason I can think of is that old "cos I want to"; well sunshine, there are more people on tis earth to consider than yourself and your need for speed.

Look at MITCHAY on these forums, (sorry to name people), but his doe exactly what would seem like a reasonable thing. He drove his TX5 around for a long time, saved his dosh, and now his just about off his P's (probably is now) and he has a WRX.

Is he fit to drive the WRX? I have no idea, but he has now gathered some real world experience now, instead of before when he was fresh. As a community (and thats how you have to think, its not all about you) I know which one would we be better off with.

/note to self, stop posting in P plater threads, WGAF!

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by 30487256

I don't think it's fair to call them spoilt brats just because they were given the car. :

If someone offered me a free car i would take it without hesitation. :Reverend:

Actually, the ones I know are spoilt brats, and couldn't drive for shyte; and yet their parents are happy to give them what they want.

Again, there are some good, well behaved ones, but they are as rare as hens teeth and you cant make laws for only a few people.

[Auslandau]

I cant beleive how this thread has turned and I think enough has been said.......and yes :Memo to self...STOP posting in P plate threads!

BUT if someone thinks that because there kid has been given or lent money to buy a car to pay off over the next ten years or whatever and that they are spoilt brats........That is the most offensive, stupid, ridiculous piece of crap I have ever heard! If its because of jelousy or hardship or someone happens to be a little bit better off than someone else.......well they can get stuffed and have absolutley no respect from me. At the next meet, or if you see me around.....PLEASE PLEASE say it to me in person! Yep I helped my son buy a car, so jam it! This thread has gone stupid. Please time to close??????



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[Charliewool]

auslandau... Mate, i couldn't agree MORE!!!
We (my ex and I ) just bought our daughter a new Astra coupe...
It was not only an 18th birthday pressie but, we thought, some "consolation" for the disolvement of our marriage.
If by us providing her with a new safe means of getting around makes her a "spoilt brat" then you other whingers out there have no frigging idea!

[Ford_Boy]

ok alot of people have missed the point. this mate i am talking about is actually my girl friends brother and i just went on a 3 day trip to bathurst with them and thier parents. he drove up in his ss and he drove heeps well. yes at times he went a few clicks over the limit but he was not stupid about it and he was very smart to drive at his ability. we drove around mount panarama and he was not stupid to drive around it like it was a race.

he was very aware that it has many tight bends and he was actually saying that it was dangerous because fools may speed from the opposite direction. he has had his licence for a years and started with a mirage, then to a vt 6 and now the vt 8. he only bought because his dad was getting rid of it and he didnt want him to give it away so cheaply. he works himself and got the loan.

the insurance is in his dads name and he got away with the certificate because he said he needs it for work. they gave him a restriction of 9 to 5 and he is wise enough not to drive it after those hours. he can say its the only car he can drive because his parents have a gts and a caprice. both are v8s.

just because people here are jelouse about him working hard to get this car and found a way around the system does not make him irresponsible or a try hard. maybe people should meet people before passing judgement on them. he went for a 4 to a 6 to an 8.

i was with him, he is not stupid and i was glad he drove the v8 because i would have felt 10 times safer at 110 in his ss then if he still had the mirage.

[scollis]

thought id share my view with you guys on the topic,

being a p plater myself i know its hard to resist driving HPV's(high performance vehicles). but the fact of the matter is these laws were put in place to protect the lives of young people and their families and friends.

However having said that my view is that the HPV law is not the answer. Almost any car on the road can reach dangerous speeds, for example my little sisters 89 laser can reach 140-150 kph. the answer to this problem is attitude. young people on the road think they are bulletproof plain and simple and they need to recognise that they are not.

Admittedly when i first got my p's in late 2002 i used to drive like i was bulletproof up until september this year.

in september this year i had a big accident while driving a courier van for work. i pulled out on to a main road and because i was driving like a lunatic the rear weels spun and i hit another car. the accident caused me to hit my head on the steering wheel and i passed out at the wheel. i was in hospital for 24 hours. This is what made me realise how dangerous driving like a lunatic can be and i have never driven the same since. i only hope that young p platers do not follow the same path that i did.

[Ford_Boy]

im glad you are alright and it shouldnt take accidents to change peoples minds. you only have to see what can happen and be scarred.

people should know the limits of the car. if you are going to speed then any car will help you but if you need to stop suddenly then not everycar will help you. people are out driving in death traps and i would much rather them drive a newer v8 then a 1980s pulsar.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by charliewool

auslandau... Mate, i couldn't agree MORE!!!
We (my ex and I ) just bought our daughter a new Astra coupe...
It was not only an 18th birthday pressie but, we thought, some "consolation" for the disolvement of our marriage.
If by us providing her with a new safe means of getting around makes her a "spoilt brat" then you other whingers out there have no frigging idea!

No no no.

Thats not what I meant, and you know it. If I had a daughter and the means I would do exactly the same thing.

Its the parents that fund skylines etc etc for their P plater kids that I dont understand.

[Polyal]

LOL Fordboy, Id be driving like an angel to if my GF's parents or mine are with me.

[cupic]

Just to touch on a point about Germans and there driving system its almost impossible to be a bad driver and gain a license there.Its tough but fair compare to the roads and driving style needed to survive there.As written in today Telegraph an artricle on the m6 and the penalty invovled.Ie overtaking on the inside lane flashing slower cars.Drive to the conidtion of the car

cheers

[Ford_Boy]

Originally Posted by Polyal

LOL Fordboy, Id be driving like an angel to if my GF's parents or mine are with me.

lol trust me. his dad his a holden rev head. at times we couldnt keep up with his supercharged gts. i drove around with my girl friend. her brother and his girlfriend and her brother was very smart. we went around the mountain by ourselves. his a safe driver.

i think people should be allowed to prove themselves. i know heeps of p platers who have 6t and v8s from before the rule came out, they have fines and they keep losing their license but they still continue to drive. while me and other responsble people just want to drive the car they want in a safe mannr but we cant because this rule retricts us to old crap boxes or new eco boxes we cant afford. i would love a new fiesta but i cant afford it so then im stuck with and old 6 or 4 to choose from that will have no power or brakes.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by cupic

Just to touch on a point about Germans and there driving system its almost impossible to be a bad driver and gain a license there.Its tough but fair compare to the roads and driving style needed to survive there.As written in today Telegraph an artricle on the m6 and the penalty invovled.Ie overtaking on the inside lane flashing slower cars.Drive to the conidtion of the car

cheers

Do you actually know the process? That would be interesting to see.

[Ford_Boy]

why is it so hard to believe that not every p plater will be reckless and kill themselves on the roads?. doesnt anyone remember being young and wanting the car they wanted and paying for it and enjoy driving it? im sure alot of the oldies drove v8s and fast 6s in their days and they are still here. its natural selction and if someone is going to kill themselve they will do it in a typhoon and in a pulsar