First Drive: Falcon Ecoboost

[blue sleeper]

It's shame the wagon is gone because I think with this engine they might of sold like hot cakes...

[Joe5619]

Sounds good.. I would have liked to see Ecoboost in an "XR" styled car..

[partsguy]

Originally Posted by madmelon

Just reading the specs of the ZF transmissions...
Assuming that it's using the 6HP19, 'max' input torque is 350Nm.
If they use the 6HP21, max torque is 400Nm, but I doubt this because it's the newer more expensive transmission.

Listed transmission masses agree with what the articles say about being lighter than the 6cyl trans.

...so that should give an indication as to the engine performance. That, of course, assumes that the transmission is actually from ZF, rather than the Ford version that the territory now uses.

I can confirm it's a 6HP21 they're using.

[Nikked]

In a few years time, I4T will be pulled from wrecks and shoved in Eskies, Capris and MK1 cortys...

[Franco Cozzo]

I reckon they should make this the base engine, except for XR6/G6 have the 6 cylinder obviously because of name sake.

I'm looking forward to this, I reckon we could have the next SR20 on our hands.

[nickdl]

Does anyone know whether the engine will be built in Aus or imported?

[Road_Warrior]

Personally, I still think they should have had a front and rear end identity that is unique to the Ecoboost cars, and called it something else, like Fusion instead of Falcon. That way, they could have done like Toyota's smoke and mirrors trick and introduced a new vehicle line that looked different to the Falcon but still shared 80% of its parts.

E:

Originally Posted by nickdl

Does anyone know whether the engine will be built in Aus or imported?

Fully imported from Espana. Underlay underlay, yeehah yeehah.

[Carby]

This car to my mind is very much a signpost vehicle that Ford needs ie it will be marketed as a full sized vehicle with excellent fuel economy, and from that perspective it should be a winner with fleets.

However personally, doing 15K km per a year would save about $6 a week in fuel compared to the I6 (9.9 L/100 as opposed to the T4 probable 8.5L/100km). If they sell the T4 for the same money as the I6, I'd much rather the effortless torque and unstressed I6 over the peaky T4 with turbo lag.

Actually the 4.0L I6 figures look good next to the highly developed T4, but it is just the current perception that big engines use lots of fuel, so I suppose the T4 Falcon is the current failsafe car Ford needs to have.

[You Yangs]

Originally Posted by HULK EF

i4 acceleration = win
fuel economy = most likely a win.

could be a nice small T motor like the Sr20T..

with a tune 200 kw and 400 nm+? 6 second 0-100s and fuel economy of a small car.. performance of a muscle car and seats a whole family...

This is why I'm really looking foward to this engine variant, if I can convince the financial controller one of these will be in my driveway for sure.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

I wonder if p platers will be allowed to drive these cars ????

Well there are turbos that are exempt just as there are N/A 6s that are banned.

I hope Ford apply for and are granted an exemption for this vehicle.

[2011G6E]

"And let’s not forget that the AU Falcon of 1998 boasted a power figure of just 157kW, and nobody ever complained that that car was underpowered".

Says it all really.

The thing that let down the four cylinder Commodores from VC to VH was the Starfire Four...while it wasn't a bad engine as a unit and was quite unburstable and reliable, it really needed a properly engineered four cylinder from somewhere else in the GM lineup at the time from somewhere else in the world...they used an Opel four cylinder in the Sunbird after all, so there was a precedent.
However, at the time all four cylinders were pretty slack when it came to power...turbos were rare, double overhead cams were rarer still, only in little light-weight Italian stuff usually. A quick glance at a Wheels magazine from 1982 shows that power levels were all around the 50 to 70kw range for most manufacturers common four cylinders, with Italian stuff like Fiats and Lancias up around 80 to 90kw. The four cylinder Commodore only put out 55kw, and the two liter single OHC Ford engine that was mooted to be put in the XD as a base model was gone by then anyway.
You could probably say that they were "cars made well before they should have been".
There is another thread on here about the new FT86 from Toyota, and how the four cylinder non-turbo engine "only" puts out 147kw...times have changed, and four cylinders are not really seen by many people as a "lesser engine" and something to be embarassed to be seen driving.

I reckon once people actually get over the size of the engine and drive this new Falcon, they'll be plesantly surprised. Especially given that the staggeringly vast majority of buyers don't care about 0-100 and quarter mile times...

[vztrt]

Good to hear the first impressions are positive.

Hopefully this will yield more numbers for the Falcon. Looking at the figures this is a good little unit and Ford have done a great job.

Love the fact that its 1 second quicker then the 3L Commodore.

[winman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8
I wonder if p platers will be allowed to drive these cars ????


Well there are turbos that are exempt just as there are N/A 6s that are banned.

I hope Ford apply for and are granted an exemption for this vehicle.

it makes sense that the 4 cylinder turbo which is slower then the 6 will be P-plate legal, however this is the RTA were talking about... and very little they do makes sense, seeing as a P-plater can drive a 368 KW V12 twin turbo diesel; audi Q7, but not an old school V8 that pushes out less then the current aussie 6 cylinders.

[Stazza_Brendan]

Haha has turbo muffler like the xr6t.

Ford should advertise this by throwing people off the street in the car to drive... Ask them how it drives then tell them its a small 2l turbo getting #l per 100km, not the big 6 they were expecting. All the while filming their reaction to how it drives and telling them how good it is on fuel,

[Falc'man]

To the one in need of more lighting:

1) The new gearbox it uses is rated to 350Nm. It is the same reason the same motor in the Focus and Mondeo is detuned - the lighter trannies can only cope with so much. That was pointed out to you.
2) The lighter tranny is Ford's choice to further accentuate this motor's purpose - economy.
3) With more than 350Nm it would clash with the I6 in that it would be as quick - it would make the 6 redundant.

Bluntly dismissing the respected member's bit of inside info was amateurish to say the least. No inside info is absolute truth (ask Rodge about that) but the way you carried on without logic - and you're still doing so - proves your certainly are in fact in need.

[mik]

it does look more and more like an AU or earlier 6 cylinder accelerating away from the lights next to one of these 4 potters may be feeling......

somewhat inadequate ......

[HULK EF]

Originally Posted by mik

it does look more and more like an AU or earlier 6 cylinder accelerating away from the lights next to one of these 4 potters may be feeling......

somewhat inadequate ......

come again? i cannot understand you.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by partsguy

I can confirm it's a 6HP21 they're using.

He answered his own question.

This engine needs the 6HP21.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by HULK EF

come again? i cannot understand you.

He means people who drive the older 6 cylinder models like AUs and even some of the old E series V8s will be out gunned by a 4 cyl.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

1) The new gearbox it uses is rated to 350Nm. It is the same reason the same motor in the Focus and Mondeo is detuned - the lighter trannies can only cope with so much. That was pointed out to you.
2) The lighter tranny is Ford's choice to further accentuate this motor's purpose - economy.

I'm a little bit disappointed theyve gone in that direction. We all knew the FWD/AWD motors were gearbox limited but Falcon shouldve been able to flex a bit more muscle.

But as you say:

3) With more than 350Nm it would clash with the I6 in that it would be as quick - it would make the 6 redundant.

Perhaps in 2015-16 or so we'll get to see the engine a bit more unhinged. Until then it seems like the torque limitations still arent doing it any harm anyway.

[jpd80]

Oh boy, I have a feeling that if people can get past their prejudice with size of the engine,
Ford might actually have a worthy successor to the 4.0 I-6 and man oh man if that happens,
Holden has a big problem because the 3.0 SIDI is not good enough to go against Ecoboost..

Everything changes.....

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Oh boy, I have a feeling that if people can get past their prejudice with size of the engine,
Ford might actually have a worthy successor to the 4.0 I-6 and man oh man if that happens,
Holden has a big problem because the 3.0 SIDI is not good enough to go against Ecoboost..

Everything changes.....

Fleets will be the key.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Paxton

He answered his own question.

This engine needs the 6HP21.

According to the ZF website, the 6HP21 is a 2nd generation gearbox and can handle 332ft-lbs. That is 450Nm!

Please take note, that the previous (first generation) 6HP19 which is what was replaced by this gearbox handled 350Nm.

Further to this, the 6HP21 also offers a 3% efficiency gain over the first gen 6HP19 gearbox. So, that is about 0.2-0.3L/100km gain there alone.

ie Falcon Eco-Boost 6HP21 gearbox is rated at 450Nm.

[FacultY]

Pics (taken from http://www.themotorreport.com.au/529...t-drive-review)

[jpd80]

Are we sure that the gearbox is a ZF6HP and not a 6R80 ZF copy like used in Territory diesel?

[1TUFFUTE]

the "partsguy' further up allready confirmed it as the tougher XXXX21 version of the gearboxes (all be it a little cloak and daggerish) but it would make sense.

This car has to APPEAR better than the existing 6 or people will simply dissmiss it before even looking. Kind of like the new diesel terri engine wise. Overall it apperars a much better car but closer inspection reveals how good the petrol actually is power eccon and refine wise...and so on

cant wait to see how these go...

[Brazen]

that G6 looks beautiful, honestly why would you spend 90 grand on a 2.5 litre Mercedes when you have these fantastic RWD cars around for 40 grand.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

the "partsguy' further up allready confirmed it as the tougher XXXX21 version of the gearboxes (all be it a little cloak and daggerish) but it would make sense.

This car has to APPEAR better than the existing 6 or people will simply dissmiss it before even looking.
.

This engine is meant to add to sales, not replace the I-6...

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by phillyc

According to the ZF website, the 6HP21 is a 2nd generation gearbox and can handle 332ft-lbs. That is 450Nm!

Please take note, that the previous (first generation) 6HP19 which is what was replaced by this gearbox handled 350Nm.

Further to this, the 6HP21 also offers a 3% efficiency gain over the first gen 6HP19 gearbox. So, that is about 0.2-0.3L/100km gain there alone.

ie Falcon Eco-Boost 6HP21 gearbox is rated at 450Nm.

Thanks for that Phil, and partsguy. I stand corrected on my earlier post regarding gearbox torque rating, although the point I was making regarding pecking order stands.


Edit: Thanks for the pics, FacultY. Under-bonnet cupholders

[prydey]

i think making the engine bay look 'full' is rather intentional. i'd say if you remove the big plastic cover it will look somewhat smaller.