XR5 vs MPS vs GTi vs WRX

[Bucknaked]

I think a good place to start are the forums of those vehicles you are considering to help get an understanding of complaints by owners. Most forums have a problem thread on their vehicles. Could be a good place to gather some intel from a larger owner audience.

[AusM]

I remember the Wheels yearbook and other press last year bagging VW for reliability. Their handling-based roadtest I found online didn't seem to cover that though... I can vouch for their stopping ability, very impressive, the top amongst a mixed group I was a part of during a driving course.

Civic R - I haven't driven the typeR, but Sir Clarkson certainly bagged it. I have driven the latest Civic and hated it. Whether it's the Thai build or just the design, the handling for that was plain dangerous and the ride hard. Fantastic dash layout though with a two-level design letting you see the speed without looking down too much.

MPS - Have only driven Mazda3 which seemed to have good Jap build quality, great handling and feel from the steering. Didn't like the shielded gauges which are all in 'tubes' and a bit awkward.

WRX - If over 25, you should get insurance about half that. Not sure how the other models you're looking at are classed, but the WRX is a 'performance car' to some insurers which charge an extra $400 on the excess (ie $400 base excess +$400 more).

'Thirty-four of 39 models on the "most reliable" list are Asian.' (read US report >)
For reliability and resale, most Jap cars are still winning hands down. In Aus - Honda and Subaru top the list.

In the end it depends on what suits your use - do you want something very small or just medium, all wheel drive or front wheel drive, lots of aftermarket bits...?

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Disciple

I didn't say VW is bad. I posted a link to a quality survey performed by drive.com.au and recalled the experience of a friends car. I know it cuts you deep to hear your beloved VW aren't the holy grail, but other people might be interested in a logical discussion.

If you layed off the attack and put your E-Warrior, E-Agenda against me aside for a second we could have rational, logical discussion. You jumped in attacking me, so don't go whinging about lack of "logical discussion," which is your fault.

Originally Posted by mitch_lx

DSG is one of the most advanced gearboxes available on the market, i think i remember reading that it shifts gears faster than the Ferrari street car F1 gearbox.

DSG shifts gears in 8ms (8 miliseconds), which is 0.008 seconds. The newest version of Ferrari's F1, single-clutch six-speed sequential gearbox, in the new 599 GTB Fiorano shifts gears in 100ms (0.1 seconds). The sequential in the Enzo shifts in 120ms (0.12 seconds).

The DSG is, uh... good. The only other sequential gearbox currently on sale in a production car that comes even remotely close to rivalling it for shift speed is the 7spd SMGIII in the BMW M5... 70ms (0.07 sec).

Inevitably, every single one of these will be very easy to get power out of for cheap. You've got a 147kW 2.0T I4, 190kW 2.3T I4, 169kW 2.5T I4 and 166kW 2.5T I5... all just a flash away from very decent gains.

I noticed mention of the Civic Type R... depends what you're after. If you're after the illusion of a fast car, go for it. IMO not worth $39,990 before on-roads. Many a respectable publication has placed it dead last in category in several reviews, EVO summing my thoughts up nicely - it feels great on its own, but show it to any others and it just flops. 1345kg with 148kW @ 7800rpm, 193Nm @ 5600rpm and absolutley nothing below 5000 doesn't work. Plus I personally think they're vomit-inducingly ugly.

The Renaultsport Megane R26 230 F1 is worth a look... $41,990 in black, $42,990 in yellow... 168kW 310Nm 2.0T I4... will absolutley obliterate every single one of these on a track and is most definitley the best driver's car of the lot. Looks a bit funky for some though. Worth a look IMO. Even the 165kW 300Nm 225 Cup is a good bit of kit to look at.

Not sure about that Astra VXR thing? Haven't even seen one yet. From my impression of the new SRi Turbo though, the new shape Astra sucks. I hear the VXR is an understeer & torque steer machine... but a straight line bullet. Anyone on here been in and/or driven one of those yet?

[Buddy 1]

Get a Turbo Mondeo

[Disciple]

The F1 gearbox in the 430 Scuderia shifts in 80ms.

OT tho: If you're gonna spend $45k on a small FWD turbo hatch then why not look at second hand cars. For that money you could get an EVO 9 or an EVO 8 with some money spare to do some mods. An EVO 9 will tear shreds off any of those cars for performance, but you will sacrifice a small amount of around town comfort. Also, the modding potential is unlimited.

[mitch_lx]

When my GTI was absolutely standard and had about 2,000 kms on the clock i came up next to a black VXR Astra "HSV'' number plates, or something along those lines.

It was quite fast, just as you would expect with the amount of power it had.
Maybe a car length infront to 100.

Think itd be a different story now though.

But yes, quite fast, and look good in the flesh (this VXR was black with dark windows)

Civic type R looks incredibly funky, If it had a reworked version of the 2.4 Accord Euro motor i think it would definately be a go'er. Im sure it drives very well as it is, but the amount of torque it has, or doesnt have for that matter might affect how well it drives.
Although i wouldnt rule it out because of that, apparently has an excellent chassis to make up for it.

XR5 looks fantastic, love the wheels and deep bumper bars. Not a fan of the fabric seats this is solved though, with leather.
No cruise? who cares?

Megane= dribblefest, but i dont know if i would pay that sort of money for a car i couldnt have 100% faith in reliability and build quality.
Everyone i know with a french car bitches and moans about poor quality materials, poor build etc. But raves about a great drive.

GTI, has a softer appeal being more refined and better all rounder. Especially since it has a choice of an 'automatic' gearbox.

WRX, hmmm... i sat in a new one and all i could think of when i saw the 'quality' of materials was some $15,990 special. I thought i was sitting in a 01 Corolla or something similar.
However, im sure they are an absolute firecracker.

[PunkXR6]

MPS= TOURQE STEER! to much power at the front, the 5 is the best priced and the WRX looks , go with the ford or teh golf

[Nevermind]

Are there many options as far as modifications with the XR5?
What about fitting thinks like Bigger/Better induction systems and intercoolers? BOV's? Exhaust options?
I know I know i'll go read some other sections in the forum and probably answer my own questions but comparing the 4 cars. Which are best for aftermarket stuff?

[Rev28K]

The new Civic R is a bit of a dud (200 extra kilograms will do that to you). It just doesn’t have the zip of the old models. Have a look at how hard Renaultsport had to work with the new Clio to get performance out of it while the weight went up.

Renault Megane F1 R26 would be my first choice. You might also want to throw a Mini Cooper S (either new turbo or old supercharged) in to the selection set.

Does anyone have the Motor PCOTY Winton lap times for the MPS – GTi – XR5 handy? I don’t think Motor have taken the new CTR or WRX around their yet.

That will tell you far more about their performance capabilities (braking and cornering) than just straight line figures. Stock Honda DC2R (1.8 litre) and DC5R (2.0 litre) Integras on stock rubber are capable of 1:45’s so I’d hope that a performance turbo to be a second or two quicker around there. Despite all of the hype the stock VW’s and Audi’s (excepting the last RS4) haven’t been as quick around Winton as I’d hoped they would be.

I’ve seen and heard of the VW turbos (as well as Honda, Mazda and WRX engines) failing but I’ve no doubt a lot of that was down to owner abuse.

P.S. Mitch Lx I’ve been up against a tweaked 1.8 Polo GTi on a power circuit with nice long straights and was quite impressed with its stomp. I could keep up with it easily enough (his overall lap times were slower) but on the long straights I couldn’t get past him despite getting on the power earlier and braking later. Very impressive little cars the Polo GTi’s!

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Disciple

The F1 gearbox in the 430 Scuderia shifts in 80ms.

OT tho: If you're gonna spend $45k on a small FWD turbo hatch then why not look at second hand cars. For that money you could get an EVO 9 or an EVO 8 with some money spare to do some mods. An EVO 9 will tear shreds off any of those cars for performance, but you will sacrifice a small amount of around town comfort. Also, the modding potential is unlimited.

Yeah second hand cars are great... the brand new appeal would be factory warranty though.

Originally Posted by mitch_lx

Megane= dribblefest, but i dont know if i would pay that sort of money for a car i couldnt have 100% faith in reliability and build quality.
Everyone i know with a french car bitches and moans about poor quality materials, poor build etc. But raves about a great drive.

Well I own a French car, and so does my best friend... both Renault Clio's, plus another mate has a Peugeot 205, and all are absolutley flawless.

Originally Posted by Nevermind

Are there many options as far as modifications with the XR5?
What about fitting thinks like Bigger/Better induction systems and intercoolers? BOV's? Exhaust options?
I know I know i'll go read some other sections in the forum and probably answer my own questions but comparing the 4 cars. Which are best for aftermarket stuff?

In Australia, the WRX would more likely then not have the widest variety of aftermarket stuff available to it... but all four are simple bolt-ons (flash, exhaust etc) away from very good power.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Nevermind

Are there many options as far as modifications with the XR5?
What about fitting thinks like Bigger/Better induction systems and intercoolers? BOV's? Exhaust options?
I know I know i'll go read some other sections in the forum and probably answer my own questions but comparing the 4 cars. Which are best for aftermarket stuff?

There are plenty of power up options for the XR5. There is an XR5Turbo.com.au website if you want more info. Since its European there is heaps of stuff available from the UK for the XR5/ST.

[steamin63]

Originally Posted by PFdesign

Civic R - I haven't driven the typeR, but Sir Clarkson certainly bagged it. I have driven the latest Civic and hated it. Whether it's the Thai build or just the design, the handling for that was plain dangerous and the ride hard. Fantastic dash layout though with a two-level design letting you see the speed without looking down too much.
?

don't even try and compare the TYPE R and the 4 door civic because they are totally different cars , only the names are the same. test drive one just for the fun of it ,i think you will enjoy it. i think you will find that the type r has the only NA engine out of all of the cars mentioned. pretty impressive i think. cheers.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by steamin63

don't even try and compare the TYPE R and the 4 door civic because they are totally different cars , only the names are the same. test drive one just for the fun of it ,i think you will enjoy it. i think you will find that the type r has the only NA engine out of all of the cars mentioned. pretty impressive i think. cheers.

Yep, its got the only N/A engine - hence why it is the slowest.

Why do people think being N/A is some kind of "benefit," or better in any way?

[photn]

For the Real XR5T test watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDgEZYpKeh4

This will show you how good the car is.

But as Mitch_LX has said. the VW are a very good car. my choice would be either a VW Golf, or an XR5T.

Though the Polo GTi is a still a very good car for what you get.

BTW..

GO THE ASSBO!!!!!

[B-Series]

The MPS 3 would be my pick for it's straight line speed. The GTi is a great all rounder but is lacking in grunt and the suspension is tuned more for comfort than performance. The Civic looks funky but needs more bottom end torque. I quite like the XR5 but I'm not fan of the interior. The WRX has become too soft and the styling still hasn't grown on me. I prefer the MY06 model anyday. I wouldn't bother with the Megane or any other French car. French cars are a joke - they've all been hit (hard) by the ugly stick and have a terrible reputation when it comes to reliability.

[Noddy]

1345kg with 148kW @ 7800rpm, 193Nm @ 5600rpm and absolutley nothing below 5000 doesn't work.

You don't need to drive a car to know that its a dud in its category. The numbers don't lie, add a driver and passenger to that kerb weight and 193nm isn't enough grunt to make this car perform where it should, especially for the asking price.

My pick would either be the XR5T or the GTI, i do prefer the VW because i like the dsg box. Both respond to mods very well too.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by B-Series

I wouldn't bother with the Megane or any other French car. French cars are a joke - they've all been hit (hard) by the ugly stick and have a terrible reputation when it comes to reliability.

Ugly is a matter of opinion and reliability? Yet another myth that simply owning a French car has quelled.

Now here's some fact, unlike your opinion and speculation - The Megane R26 F1 is best performing of all these cars by a very great margain, period. Easily the best driver's car out of any of the others in its class.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Noddy

You don't need to drive a car to know that its a dud in its category. The numbers don't lie, add a driver and passenger to that kerb weight and 193nm isn't enough grunt to make this car perform where it should, especially for the asking price.

The only reason the Civic Type R sells at all is because of its "fully sick bro, hektik ulleh," badge.

If you took that badge off and it was called something else, nobody would buy one.

Remember the Corolla Sportivo flop of a few years ago? 141kW @ 7800rpm, 181Nm @ 6800rpm, 1224kg. Very slow, dynamically dull, heap of junk. Big time flop. However the price - $28,990 - was alot more reasonable.

[B-Series]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Ugly is a matter of opinion and reliability? Yet another myth that simply owning a French car has quelled.

Now here's some fact, unlike your opinion and speculation - The Megane R26 F1 is best performing of all these cars by a very great margain, period. Easily the best driver's car out of any of the others in its class.

Anybody with an IQ over 65 will agree that Renault produces some of the most ugly and unreliable cars around. If you think otherwise then you are either a dimwitt or have a weird taste in cars.

The Megane doesn't look too bad, in fact it's the only French car I would consider being seen in. The Clio on the other hand is just appalling. It looks like a squashed toyota echo with a pole shoved up it's ar$e. I highly doubt that the Megane can match the acceleration of the MPS 3 or the WRX. So much for out-performing the rest of the competition by a "great margin".

[Disciple]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Yeah second hand cars are great... the brand new appeal would be factory warranty though.

A second hand 2005 EVO 9 will still have 2 years factory warranty left.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by B-Series

Anybody with an IQ over 65 will agree that Renault produces some of the most ugly and unreliable cars around. If you think otherwise then you are either a dimwitt or have a weird taste in cars.

The Megane doesn't look too bad, in fact it's the only French car I would consider being seen in. The Clio on the other hand is just appalling. It looks like a squashed toyota echo with a pole shoved up it's ar$e. I highly doubt that the Megane can match the acceleration of the MPS 3 or the WRX. So much for out-performing the rest of the competition by a "great margin".

First test of it I ever saw (by EVO) netted 0-100km/h in 6.2 sec and the 1/4 in 14.4. That's right in the MPS3's ballpark, with both WRX.

On a track, neither stand a remote chance, for those who know of things called corners (more to life then the 1/4 mile).

I like your analogy about the Clio, a strange one it is (it makes no sense and its purpose is obvious).

Trying to associate opinion (looks) and intelligence is, wellll.. you know. :

Unreliable? Based on what experience? I own one, do you? Mine's never missed a beat. Won't be missing one any time soon either.

*Waits to be told about how supposedly unreliable his own car is.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Disciple

A second hand 2005 EVO 9 will still have 2 years factory warranty left.

That's not a bad buy at all then. Can get them with quite low km's too... http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars..._id=0&trecs=17

Not much available new for that money can even get close... or second hand for that matter.

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by Sylox

Mps
Wrx
Xr5









Gti

+1

Nice to see Steffo is still around ruining threads. Make your point and then leave it, you don't need to say the same stuff over and over again, all the time, in all the threads. A lot of people won't agree with you, deal with it. If people won't listen to you or don't care what you have to say the first time, they won't care the next 10 times either. I keep getting flashbacks to that Simpsons episode where Bart keeps reaching for the electrified cupcake...

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Deadman

+1

Nice to see Steffo is still around ruining threads. Make your point and then leave it, you don't need to say the same stuff over and over again, all the time, in all the threads. A lot of people won't agree with you, deal with it. If people won't listen to you or don't care what you have to say the first time, they won't care the next 10 times either...

If the same old people didn't try to e-fight me, most threads would have what... one post. :togo:

[Deadman]

E-fight you? You pay out on people just because they don't have as many posts as you. I'm pretty sure someone is a bit paranoid...

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Deadman

E-fight you? You pay out on people just because they don't have as many posts as you. I'm pretty sure someone is a bit paranoid...

When someone joins a forum, or any kind of group internet or real life, and they are new (ie: low posts, recent joint date etc for a forum) is it customary to rush in and start going right you're an idiot, these people don't know everything, now listen to me? No.

Someone who's been around for a long time is a different story. When people are used to each other and whatnot. Please tell me how that would at all associate with paranoia though, I'm dying to know that one?

[Elks]

I have a friend who owns an MPS and loves it. It is a nice well equipped car. It is quick too. Its limiting factor is FWD. Mazda actually limit the torque output in 1st & 2nd gears so it will go straight. Put a flash tuner through it and good luck.

Another friend has a Golf 2.0 TDI with the DSG brilliant and so far (18 months) trouble free.

Another had a Renault Clio, traded out of it after a bit over 12 months to many problems.

I don't know enough about the XR5, to add value

My guess from the list would still be either the MPS or XR5.

However when you have finished selecting a hatch for the wife, you should consider a GT for yourself. They are still a great car, a bit dearer but resale & BF runnout prices should help

Only joking. :

[FlipXW]

Not a bad showing of what they can do. GTi vs XR5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKxCT...eature=related

[B-Series]

Originally Posted by Steffo

First test of it I ever saw (by EVO) netted 0-100km/h in 6.2 sec and the 1/4 in 14.4. That's right in the MPS3's ballpark, with both WRX.

On a track, neither stand a remote chance, for those who know of things called corners (more to life then the 1/4 mile).

I like your analogy about the Clio, a strange one it is (it makes no sense and its purpose is obvious).

Trying to associate opinion (looks) and intelligence is, wellll.. you know. :

Unreliable? Based on what experience? I own one, do you? Mine's never missed a beat. Won't be missing one any time soon either.

*Waits to be told about how supposedly unreliable his own car is.

How long have you owned your Clio for again? How many km has it travelled? My mate's dad works with Renaults and knows how unreliable they are from first hand experience. His experiences are based on many cars and not just one... French engineering = :. Besides, Renault has a very poor reputation.

My comment about the Clio does have an element of truth about it. . Yes, you are correct the purpose is obvious.

14.4 is quite impressive but the new WRX is a little faster thanks to AWD. The MPS is a lot faster - try 13.9 @ 100-101 mph. Yes, straight line acceleration is not everything, but it's bloody important for a performance car. Oh I almost forgot... the MPS and the WRX also can do corners too.

[B-Series]

Originally Posted by Steffo

If the same old people didn't try to e-fight me, most threads would have what... one post. :togo:

Perhaps people try and e-fight with you for a reason. Still haven't worked it out yet?