Should an FG Territory replace a wagon lineup?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I wonder how many territory critics/doubters have actually driven/lived with or owned one? My territory was the best all round vehicle ive ever owned, and ive owned nearly a dozen falcon/commodore wagons over the years.
It got lots of cargo space, in fact nearly as much as the falcon wagon and a driving position that gives you an abundance of clear view with a more comfortable higher seating position and leg room, in fact i found it was more comfortable and relaxing to drive day to day than the XR8, (especially with bad knees!).
Its handling and performance was every bit as good if not better than any 6cyl wagon ive owned.
If i was going to do allot of daily driving and need to carry stuff or a long trip with the family it would be my first choice of Ford vehicle without a doubt.
A VERY underrated vehicle, when its updated it will take off in sales again i'm sure.

I'll back you up on this, i've been driving my dads Territory TS AWD 6 spd auto as my cars off the road at the moment, and its a brilliant piece of gear to drive. I also had one of the first Territory Ghias that was built, owned it for 6 months, and bar the lower levels of power than what I was used to coming out of a couple of BA XR8's it was a very impressive vehicle to own and drive. The only car i've ever owned that I made money on it when I sold it. Bar the higher ride height it drives just as well as the Falcon does. Very impressive for a 2 tonne SUV. If only they could get the fuel economy down it would be a perfect family car.

[irlewy86]

I thought we already covered this when we had the "Why doesn't Ford build a G6E ute with coil springs"

With markets moving in interesting ways at the moment its a good idea to keep all your options open.

[ehast13]

made money on a territory? wtf

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by ehast13

made money on a territory? wtf

When BA first came out people were trading in XR6 utes for MORE than they were paying for the new purchase, a turbo could get you two grand more to update. Then re sales plummeted and that ship sailed. It's all to do with employee pricing.

[MRJUCY]

I wonder if they could keep the wagon going even longer at less expense then goig to a full FG wagon by doing something similar to what they did with the blackwood utes through the E series ie XG & XH.
I know most of the sales reps who come see me these days have BF3 egas wagons due to it's unique mix of space & economy.

[ehast13]

yeah.

eventually mod the bonnet and guards to accept fg lights and bumper.

Good idea

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by MRJUCY

I wonder if they could keep the wagon going even longer at less expense then goig to a full FG wagon by doing something similar to what they did with the blackwood utes through the E series ie XG & XH.
I know most of the sales reps who come see me these days have BF3 egas wagons due to it's unique mix of space & economy.

2010 it will need an engine upgrade to meet euro 4 or they cant sell it.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by vztrt

2010 it will need an engine upgrade to meet euro 4 or they cant sell it.

?? ... so does the entire range IIRC

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by ehast13

made money on a territory? wtf

Employee pricing. Made $4000 dollars on the sale after 6 months due to the demand on the 2nd hand market for them.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

?? ... so does the entire range IIRC

Correct, but seeing as they will need R&D for a new wagon....will they be able to justify it?

[barra240t]

As long as the price is right fleets and business' will keep buying wagons. I have actually tried to get my fleet salesperson to sell a TX RWD Territory instead of a wagon, because at the time, wagons were hard to get because of supply. But the company refused and wanted a wagon at that was that and they waited. So I'll stress as long as the price is right, we will still keep selling them. I would love to see LPG on Territory however!

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Amen. Great basic vehicle.

But I don't want Ford to sell luxury or sports models at the insistence of a few people on Ford Forums. A Sportswagon is not the way.

I love the fact that Ford have pretty much kept their wagon for a trade market. They're people who truly appreciate the car for what it is.

I just wish more people would.

Just about got it in one UD.........

From countrycars.com.au June 2008.... (http://www.countrycars.com.au/Editor...rticleID=53830) ...

"About 85 per cent of Falcon buyers are fleet and government customers"

[Spanrz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Must have been a massive box?

Yes, that's what the killer was. It wasn't all that fat, it was just the height of the box.
Some TV's have a high base than others. I just chose the TV with a high base.

[imugli]

Didn't Wheels do a comparo b/w the Terry and the Commo Sportwagon last month, in which the Terry wiped the floor with it? I vaguely remember reading the quote that it's a far better all rounder than the s/wagon, even if it is older and thirstier.

Does anyone else here think the AUIII SR wagon was not a bad looking piece of kit? Drop the suspension on one of those and I'd take it ahead of the commo any day...

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by imugli

Didn't Wheels do a comparo b/w the Terry and the Commo Sportwagon last month, in which the Terry wiped the floor with it? I vaguely remember reading the quote that it's a far better all rounder than the s/wagon, even if it is older and thirstier.

Here's the thread:
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11244157

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by imugli

Does anyone else here think the AUIII SR wagon was not a bad looking piece of kit? Drop the suspension on one of those and I'd take it ahead of the commo any day...

One of the nicest, sportiest wagons you can buy, and the resale reflects that.

[orsm8]

Nice wagon the SR 111 and im lucky my wife owns one. But i have lowered it put some 17inch AU1 tickford rims on it fitted a redback exhaust plus momo steering wheel. I cleaned it today and while we out this afternoon a couple of people thought it looked very nice. Only problem for me is it needs a V8

[ehast13]

it would be nice to see an SR version of the BFIII. Add a the little front spoiler from the BFII fairmont ghia (and limited edition BFII SR sedans), a set of alloys, some chrome detailing on the grill and some nicer seat material. It would be cost effective and and might sell a few more (or at least reduce the 'taxi pack/rep mobile' image of a new falcon wagon).

Clearly Ford are not in the position to blow money on limited edition models. Using existing parts (or even changing base spec level/exterior detailing) would perhaps revitalise the appeal of the big wagon in comparison with the Holden Schittswagen.

Ford could make use the SR front on all wagons and make alloys standard (or no cost option). OR...

Ford could offer two spec wagons.

Base model repmobile as per current car
and SR as a permanent model.

I reckon the BFII ghia and SR models had a really nice looking front. I reckon it would look great on a wagon.

The big question is..

Would it be worth offering a slightly upper spec wagon, when many aussies would just choose a territory instead.

In terms of 'coolness' I reckon many folks (soccer mums, men wishing their wives would let them go 4WD ing, people who want 356 storage compartments etc) would take the territory over a flashed up wagon, despite any cost advantage.

At the moment, they co exist quite well.

The wagon is the perfect, tough, reliable 2008 panelvan for reps and taxi drivers and the occasional FORD driver who has kids and want's 2B a bit different.

The territory is the image mobile that proves having a family doesn't mean having a KOMBI/HIACE/TARAGO/L300 etc.

Me? I'd take wagon in black. Add a BFII ghia front and alloys, drop the suspension a bit, nice dark tint, double mattress in the back, shag pile carpetting, mirrored hoodlining, condom dispenser........

Maybe if I was a lot younger....

[bigdude1011]

I saw one privately owned BF3 last night, (unless NSW fleets use regular NSW plates) though I've seen many ACT Government owned ones though.

[BPXR6T]

Not until they change the fugly styling of the terri.

[uranium_death]

I think the Terri looks fine as far as SUVs go.
It isn't the most "modern" looking, but I don't think it looks like crap either.

I think it has a swell interior compared to some others though, and since comfort would be important if I was a prospective buyer, it gets brownie points there.

The downside of styling is that you will never please everybody. Impossible.

[LeadFoot81]

I voted lose the wagon only if the Territory line up matches the Falcons.

Surely a 'road spec' lowered Territory with no rear seats/extended rear flooring and a cargo blind would have more than enough space and practicality for reps etc (spesh with the split fold tailgate)?

As has been stated, the Falcon wagon makes a great taxi but waddaya do?

[Road_Warrior]

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2009...on-wagon-16305

A diesel Mondeo wagon in the wings is another portent of doom for the BF III Falcon wagon

Ford Australia hopes that the Mondeo wagon will provide an alternative for buyers otherwise attracted to Holden's Commodore Sportwagon. That's the mid-sized Ford's primary role -- one that the current BF Series III Falcon wagon was never designed to handle.

And it's not just private buyers that Ford hopes to attract with the two-box Mondeo. The company has made no secret of its plan to address the needs of fleets with the medium-segment model. If that strategy works -- and the Mondeo begins to take sales away from its aging stablemate -- Ford is thus in a position to pull the plug on the Falcon wagon.

In an earlier report, the Carsales Network speculated that the Falcon wagon might be quietly euthanised, rather than Ford funding an upgrade of the AU-era design in order to meet the upcoming Euro IV emissions standard next year. Now, with the news that Ford will field a diesel Mondeo wagon later this year or early next year, the Falcon wagon seems to be living on borrowed time more than ever.

Ford may prefer to reduce the complexity of manufacturing three product lines to two -- with further implicit simplification if/when the Territory migrates to FG Falcon drivetrain components for Euro IV compliance. With the way the FG sedan has been selling in larger numbers, particularly the higher-profit XR and G Series models, perhaps Ford is seeing the formation of a business case that concentrates marketing, engineering and manufacturing effort on those cars and the Territory.

So, during the media launch for the new Mondeo range, we asked Sinead McAlary, Ford's Communications Manager to update us on the status of the Falcon wagon.

"At this stage, we're currently evaluating what we're doing with Falcon wagon..." she said, but explained that she wasn't in a position to announce anything further on that front. She did, however, say that a lot is riding on the Mondeo.

"Without saying that's going to happen -- that's not where we're at yet -- the Mondeo wagon is fabulous... It's got more retail upmarket customer appeal than Falcon wagon does," she said.

"Falcon wagon is purely fleet. About 99 per cent of it is fleet [sales]. We anticipate that the Mondeo wagon will attract a lot more private customers, but we are also planning to use it to target some fleets as well... some fleets who might prefer a smaller wagon -- and put it up against the Holden competitor [Sportwagon].

McAlary disagreed with the assertion that the Falcon wagon won't be missed and is not the iconic product that an XR8 sedan is.

"Falcon wagon does very well in the used-car market -- with families -- but Falcon wagon is [also] very popular with the fleets... because it delivers them exactly what they want..." she said.

"If we were ever going to do an alternative to that, we would have to try and find a real alternative to that, so we're currently evaluating what our options are."

If the Falcon wagon's time has come, it's not like it lived fast and died young. McAlary agrees that the car has surprised even its maker for its longevity in the marketplace.

"We thought Falcon wagon would go away in 2004 with the Territory -- and it didn't, because as fabulous a vehicle as the Territory is, it didn't do what the fleet customers who were buying the Falcon wagon wanted it to..."

There is another option for Ford to canvass. Since the Territory is well packaged and will have to comply with Euro IV, no matter what, would Ford consider a 'reverse-Adventra' solution? Turn the SUV into a rear-wheel-drive-only, liquid-injection LPG-fuelled, five-seat load-lugger to capture the market left by the absence of a Falcon wagon?

"Yeah, we could... but we're not..." McAlary said, laughing.

"It's all about putting the resources where you're going to get the best value."

That then suggests that Ford has two options only: re-jig Falcon or replace it with Mondeo. And when it comes to degree of difficulty, which is harder? Gaining approval from Dearborn for a major engineering project to upgrade an elderly wagon? Or convincing your fleet buyers to purchase a leaner-running, better handling car that's comparable in size with the older car?

Looks like come July 2010, it's bye-bye Falcon wagon.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2009...on-wagon-16305



Looks like come July 2010, it's bye-bye Falcon wagon.

Falcon wagon was canned in 06 and has survived. I wouldn't underestimate it.

I just wonder if the RTV had have stayed on like the BFIII would Ford have been able to just get the euro 4 engine in both vehicles and soldier on.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Falcon wagon was canned in 06 and has survived. I wouldn't underestimate it.

I just wonder if the RTV had have stayed on like the BFIII would Ford have been able to just get the euro 4 engine in both vehicles and soldier on.

Agree entirely on the wagon, they're great cars.

As for the RTV, weren't ford contemplating bringing them back at some stage?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by ltd

Agree entirely on the wagon, they're great cars.

As for the RTV, weren't ford contemplating bringing them back at some stage?

No idea. Never heard anything about them. But I still say it would have been fine as a BFIII fleet hack.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Falcon wagon was canned in 06 and has survived. I wouldn't underestimate it.

I just wonder if the RTV had have stayed on like the BFIII would Ford have been able to just get the euro 4 engine in both vehicles and soldier on.

Thing is this time, there is a statutory deadline which cannot be bypassed without re-investment in the platform by Ford. Will ford spend that money on the wagon? Keep an old platform running on the production line next to the new one with the sequencing difficulties that goes along with such an arrangement? Who knows.

As for the RTV, I've said it before and I'll say it again, they were fools to can it. It was the only vehicle available on the market with a modest off road capability, 1 tonne payload and dedicated gas.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Keeping the wagon would not have cost Ford much either, so it makes sense.

Say who??? Everything I've read sugguest the opposite

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Say who??? Everything I've read sugguest the opposite

Do not be fooled, the wagon is a cash cow for Ford. It keeps the line flowing and ensures Broadies work 5 days a week.

[new2ford]

Territory needs a vertical rear end if it is to replace the Falcon wagon for practical cargo-carrying purposes. It has internal height but the sloping rear seriously compromises optimal loading. And it needs a gas version.