FORD will never outshine Holden-no matter what they do? - Page 3

Fev · 31-07-2009, 12:10 PM

I'm glad we dont "shine" as much as holdens do - if we did we would have the highest theft rate every year - definately over the holdens because our cars are superior - and we'd also be targetted more by police..

Ford's aren't immediately thought of when you think hoon are they? although the media seems to think so sometimes..

marksxr8 · 31-07-2009, 12:25 PM

well on this note all my friends owned holdens and they swore they were the best and still to this day, but my dirty ole xy sure as hell back in the day run rings arounds the ole hq and i sure did silence a few of them,fond memories back in the day down back of some industrial street we all went down to pop a few skinneys me and about 5 others i was in the only ford i went first remember my friend putting his head in the window saying.... go for second go for second...dude i looked at him, i am in second (old three on the tree 250 ci) poped the tyre no probs for the old ford ...out come my mate in his hq ute fair lights it up 30 seconds into it tap tap tap nunga ninga nunga of gos the top top on # 3 piston lol ford 4 eva i towed that sorry **** hq home top day for the fords

ltd · 31-07-2009, 12:39 PM

Top post again flappist.

I have a theory on why Holden are synonymous with Australia;

Up to 80% of the population believe the global warming scam,
probably up to 80% think Holden is better and Australian.

Ergo, up to 80% of the population are ignorant morons.

DISCLAIMER:
The above comment was made in jest and was meant to be taken light heartedly. If you did however take offence please contact our complaints officer, Heywood Jablomy or alternately seek out a sense of humour.

YOOT · 31-07-2009, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC

?? at 37 you should be old enough to know you cant polish sheite

No you can't polish a ttuurd, but you can roll it in glitter...

Powdered Toast Man · 31-07-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfoam

I grew up with the VH and learned to drive in it so for me I like Commodores better than Falcons since it proved it's worth to me by being there reliable and taking me everywhere I went during my childhood.

Most families own Commodores so in the end most kids will buy them also (most likely the model the family had as they were growing up as a first car too)

Exactly why I'm a Ford man. I have a deep respect for XFs. My old man had an XF S-Pac, very nice looking car in it's day with good performance. He had that thing for over 10 years and did 500,000kms in it and not once did he have a major mechanical problem.

It is all perception in most cases, not reality. The human condition.

Assassinbm · 31-07-2009, 01:23 PM

I thought it was obvoius, sheep follow blindly....................

XD427 · 31-07-2009, 01:38 PM

As I grew up most of my family worked at AMCAP and there for Holdens were the vehicles of choice, but after purchasing a XC GXL off a mate I havent strayed since ive owned nothing but fords since then all up ive owned 10 Fords in 12 years through upgrading and still have 3 now ;) Its funny though that people site Peter Brock as the reason for Holdens dominance on the track and marketing cause he defected from Holden I believe he even helped and lent his name to a EA brock turbo falcon then drove for Volvo. Yeh he was a great driver but I dont think he was in the same category as allan moffat and the likes especially after he looped out and insisted his VK or VH group A's had a special crystal box installed at an extra cost of $250 to align the electric's and spirituality of the vehicle. what drugs was he smoking even true Holden fans try and deny that one or pretend like it never happened.

JPDyno · 31-07-2009, 01:42 PM

I think a great deal of the 'Holden is more australian" perception is in the name. The majority of the population look at things in very simple terms. Everyone knows "Ford" is an American name. "Holden" is an Australian name (even though, its really a GM sticker). If Holdens were sold under a GM or Chevrolet sticker, I think the perception would be very different.

Interesting comment about Ford fans being whingers. Dont know if that is strictly true. I do find this forum to be a bit more negative than the LS1 forum (there certainly seems to be alot more threads full of holden hate on here than there is threads of ford bashing on LS1.). The LS1 guys and moan about HSVs sticker-pack anniversary models and such too... We all get angry when our respective beloved manufacturers dont give us what we want.

Why I got into Holdens... I'm not sure. I was never into cars as a kid, even though my father is an engine builder and both my brothers worked for him. My dad, who likes ford but is an any car man, an used to work at Ford in Geelong before he opened his own shop. My first car ended up being a VN Commodore. Pretty sure it was only because it was fairly modern (<10yrs), and came at a good price at the time. My brothers, a diehard holden fan, was probably the biggest influence. I think also, around the time i got my P plates, Holden unveiled the (new) Monaro... which probably cemented me.
(and then eventually getting a job AT holden... but i was already deep in the Holden camp by then)

Anyway... I think this very much a generational thing too... I think alot more Gen-Y kids are ford-friendly than some previous generations, when it was pretty hard to become a ford V8 fan when they stopped doing V8s. XR6Turbos have gained heaps of respect from a younger audience... and If they become die-hard fans, their kids probably will be too. It takes a long time to instill that loyalty in a brand, Ford is on the way up no doubt. But it will take time, and continued dedication.

Dr Smith · 31-07-2009, 01:56 PM

I can't remember his exact words however Geoff Polites summed it up nicely when he said it would take 20 years to grow Ford's following to anything like Holden's (and that would only be possible if a deliberate and continued effort was made to achieve this)...and that was when he released the BA in 2002.

PS. I've noticed that MB has been dropping the "over 75 years in Australia... compared to our opposition, we've been here longer" at many press events....why does Ford Oz always look up when a "local" runs the place.

Ryan · 31-07-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDyno

Anyway... I think this very much a generational thing too... I think alot more Gen-Y kids are ford-friendly than some previous generations, when it was pretty hard to become a ford V8 fan when they stopped doing V8s. XR6Turbos have gained heaps of respect from a younger audience... and If they become die-hard fans, their kids probably will be too. It takes a long time to instill that loyalty in a brand, Ford is on the way up no doubt. But it will take time, and continued dedication.

The introduction of the XR6T, and F6 has definitely helped. Even most Holden fans praise them. Infact I don't know many Holden fans that don't like the XR6T, or F6.

JMO · 31-07-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDyno

Anyway... I think this very much a generational thing too... I think alot more Gen-Y kids are ford-friendly than some previous generations, when it was pretty hard to become a ford V8 fan when they stopped doing V8s. XR6Turbos have gained heaps of respect from a younger audience...

I think a lot of that popularity has to do with the 'TURBO'. A lot of the people I know couldn't give a damn about Ford, but once turbo is mentioned, the boy racer in them comes out to play.

The idea of a Falcon being treated in the same manner as some of the rice burners getting around make me sick... :(

JPDyno · 31-07-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMO

I think a lot of that popularity has to do with the 'TURBO'. A lot of the people I know couldn't give a damn about Ford, but once turbo is mentioned, the boy racer in them comes out to play.

The idea of a Falcon being treated in the same manner as some of the rice burners getting around make me sick... :(

Yeah I agree... It has given a lot of skyline junkies somewhere else to go.
But you would've noticed, it also converted a large amount of V8 muscle fans too. I know alot of guys who once upon a time wouldn't have given a 6cyl a glimpse, now driving typhoons....

Linkachu · 31-07-2009, 06:06 PM

Its more to do with what family car they grew up with aswell. We had an XF fairmont and my brother loved fords, when it was my time to like cares we had a VT commodore so i loved holdens. Most familys have commodores so kids grow up to love holdens. My first car was a VP commodore, loved it untill a friend crashed it. Now i own an EA s pak and love it, something about fords when you own one is not noticed when you dont. Well thats my view anyway.

shyun · 31-07-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapeworm

Its very much an Ozzie are Holden thing vs Ford are yankie thing...average joe will tell you this, imho.

Very true. I remember a few months back FoxFM had a competition for a v8 (XR8 or SS) and Matt asked Troy what he wanted and he said the XR8. Then Matt had a go at him saying why would you want that yankee crap get an 'Australian' Holden.

DanielXR8 · 31-07-2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tx3dude

clever marketing. thats all, nothing else.

Not sure about that tx3dude. The dealer principal of the Ford dealer where I lived, did a fantastic job of showing me and others why we shouldnt own another Ford.

Holden got some free sales referrals from him I'm sure. Toyota and Mazda certainly did.

HUNTER8 · 31-07-2009, 07:13 PM

I don't even think it is clever marketing. Here in SA the press is so biased against Ford that its not funny. Review the G6E and compare it to a Commodore. Review a Commodore and compare it to a BMW.
Run a good story about Ford and have a crap story about Holden with a picture on the same page.
Get the stupid girly review obout a Commodore and state Ford no longer make an up market version.
No wonder Ford don't waste their time.

GTP 290 · 31-07-2009, 07:46 PM

Personally I think that the ratio to holden vs ford fans is about even, however i will say that ford fans don't feel the need to be all in your face about it. We are just happy to have a nice/nicer car than the holden lovers. Honestly if you put out TV ads for an all ford cruise in a major city you would see the numbers come rolling in. As previously stated ford drivers (in my opinion) don't feel the need to go all out telling every one how great their car is or get into an ego war with a holden driver. Can you tell me the last time a ford driver walked upto a holden driver and said "buy a ford" I can tell you i have never seen this happen. On the other hand just about every single time i go out and get into a discussion about anything even remotely close to being related to cars I get the same old "holden are better cause blah blah blah".

Honestly I believe that you can't really say which is the better car when comparing model vs model as both ford and holden have their ups and downs. The current model holdens have so much aftermarket support in regards to engine modifying due to the fact that the basic engine design for their V8 has been around for almost 20 years (correct me if i am wrong) and is used in quite alot of USDM cars. How long has the current ford V8 design been around and how many models is this engine available? I honestly have no idea about this but i can say that i know how to get easy power out of any holden/chev V8.

Just to summarise. IMO Ford don't have a smaller fan base, we just don't have anyone above us to get defensive about.

4Vman · 31-07-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP 290

Personally I think that the ratio to holden vs ford fans is about even, however i will say that ford fans don't feel the need to be all in your face about it. We are just happy to have a nice/nicer car than the holden lovers. Honestly if you put out TV ads for an all ford cruise in a major city you would see the numbers come rolling in. As previously stated ford drivers (in my opinion) don't feel the need to go all out telling every one how great their car is or get into an ego war with a holden driver. Can you tell me the last time a ford driver walked upto a holden driver and said "buy a ford" I can tell you i have never seen this happen. On the other hand just about every single time i go out and get into a discussion about anything even remotely close to being related to cars I get the same old "holden are better cause blah blah blah".

Honestly I believe that you can't really say which is the better car when comparing model vs model as both ford and holden have their ups and downs. The current model holdens have so much aftermarket support in regards to engine modifying due to the fact that the basic engine design for their V8 has been around for almost 20 years (correct me if i am wrong) and is used in quite alot of USDM cars. How long has the current ford V8 design been around and how many models is this engine available? I honestly have no idea about this but i can say that i know how to get easy power out of any holden/chev V8.

Just to summarise. IMO Ford don't have a smaller fan base, we just don't have anyone above us to get defensive about.

Nup.. hate to say it but id say the fans are split 60:40 holden to Ford... sales show it.

flappist · 31-07-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Nup.. hate to say it but id say the fans are split 60:40 holden to Ford... sales show it.

And McDonalds outsells all the others because it is a quality healthy good value nutritional product..

How do I know? I saw it on TV......

gtxb67 · 31-07-2009, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

To be honest if it wasn't for Falcon I don't think Ford have as strong of a presence. If you asked most people what cars Ford were building before 1960, most probably wouldn't be able to tell you. If you asked most people what cars Holden were making before the Commodore they would have the F series, E series, H series Holdens, Monaros, and Toranas to fall back on.

This is where I think alot of the popularity for Holden comes from. Everyone knows Holden started with the FX. Alot of people who aren't as knowledgeable about the automotive industry probably think Ford started making cars with the first Falcon. (XK)

It also doesn't help that alot of people see Ford as being American as it shares the name with its parent company. Holden on the other hand has its own identity.

I'm not trying to start an argument or anything. I know Ford has been making cars longer than Holden has in Australia, I'm just trying to state facts.

you are only looking at 12 years from the 48-215 and the first falcon, but unfortunately that was enough for a ridiculous perception that holden are australia's own. it is all perception, because to my understanding the fx was never a car. it was called the 48-215, but at some time the fx nickname was used, simply because if something is not known it is given the code x. however like most things, people do not care about facts, just what is easier or more convenient to remember

you are correct with the name. ford is ford everywhere, but holden and shitrolet trade on being australia's own or the heartbeat of america when they are just part of a global company that owns a lot of car companies. holden certainly is not australian - they answer to the parent company just like ford australia does, but those catchy tunes and the australian name fools many

and in my opinion, holden will always be more popular because of the australian perception, just like chev's and america, vauxhall's and brittain etc.

GregXR6T · 31-07-2009, 08:30 PM

I know it is a ford forum and all, some of us own both on this site.
Why on earth do you guys think the majority of people like Holden's more then Ford TV, Brock, perception etc etc? lol come on.
All i will say in favor of Ford is the FG is better looking better car then the VE.

beaver700 · 31-07-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Top post again flappist.

I have a theory on why Holden are synonymous with Australia;

Up to 80% of the population believe the global warming scam,
probably up to 80% think Holden is better and Australian.

Ergo, up to 80% of the population are ignorant morons.

Couldn't of put it better. Global warming has got to be the biggest scam ever perpetrated on all people

GTP 290 · 31-07-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregXR6T

I know it is a ford forum and all, some of us own both on this site.
Why on earth do you guys think the majority of people like Holden's more then Ford TV, Brock, perception etc etc? lol come on.
All i will say in favor of Ford is the FG is better looking better car then the VE.

apparently because...

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Nup.. hate to say it but id say the fans are split 60:40 holden to Ford... sales show it.

...true enthusiasts only ever buy new cars

_

Teflon Turbo · 31-07-2009, 09:01 PM

HSV = 20 years ago
FPV = 5 years ago

buickman · 31-07-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmo

I don't think it has that much to do with advertising, it's loyalty ingrained through generations. Very similar to passion for a football club or code for that matter, and this makes it very hard to overcome.
I'm sure there are Melbourne members on here that wouldn't hear a bad word said about AFL, and would in fact be quite dismissive of league or union...and vice versa. Why should it be any different for brands of cars?

I think you might have touched base with being encouraged to buy a Holden from family influence considering the FC/FB holden had about 54% of the Aussie car market in late 50's early 60's .

I gather queit a few Holden owners would have been encourage to own a Holden one just like a football team if they had parents and grandparents owning Holdens. I remember as a child it was a big thing to see a new Holden released. I bet they wished they had that affect on Aussies now.

My dad would never own a Ford and has owned Holden's since 1953 .

I've owned 2 Holden's a Corvette and Buick from the GM camp but most of my cars have been Falcon/ Fairlanes.

Motor racing could also have a lot to do with what type of car you follwed if family members were not car enthusiasts to direct you to a certain make.

4Vman · 31-07-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP 290

apparently because...

...true enthusiasts only ever buy new cars

_

na! there are tonnes of bogans in second hand holdens too, look at the hoon car seizure rate!

R-Design · 31-07-2009, 09:24 PM

BS like this doesn't help:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarsGuide

The Focus will become Ford Australia's fourth Asia-sourced car.

http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/new...th_asian_ford/

Ford is closing in on Holden from a sales perspective and has a much stronger product range. Burela's not concerned with Holden, it's Toyota he's after.

xr6turboford · 31-07-2009, 09:26 PM

Propaganda (miss truths) and marketing.
Just seen the Cruze add, it said we at Holden have taken the good thinks out of our large car and put it in a small car Cruze. So people now think its a Holden car when in reality its a re badged car from Korea. Its all about perception.

As for the marketing just have a look at other companies advertising, most use a Holden not Ford. For exampled the Brut add has a Holden ute, why not a Ford ute as Ford was the first to make the Ute. No because marketing CEO like to associate their products with other popular products to sell their own products.
So as you will see Holden get a awful lot of free advertising. Their just always in your face.
At the end of the day crap will always be crap no matter how you market it, I guess some people like the looks,feel and smell of crap.

Give me FORD any day.

bok1 · 31-07-2009, 09:41 PM

after the troubles that i have had with my vessv i will never buy another holden again.i have just traded in on a ego fg f6 and waiting for delivery.i had the ss back in for warranty over 40 times thats right 40 times.i hope that i will have better luck with the f6.marketing drives home why you should buy ones product pure and simple.

phil

uranium_death · 31-07-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Nup.. hate to say it but id say the fans are split 60:40 holden to Ford... sales show it.

While I am damn sure there are more Holden fans out there, I don't think sales are a safe indicator of 'fans'.
Some people are absolutely neutral when purchasing a car, and buy what they consider to be their best option at the time.

My old man could not give a rat's clacker about the Holden and Ford rivalry.
In 87, he got the XF wagon because for a family of 5, it was the best option for carrying 3 kids in the back, and a heap of suitcases etc. when going on holiday.

HIs next car was a Holden, because he needed a new car, and Geoff Brady had brand new cars at the best price...

So while I see the point you're making, I don't think fan numbers can be derived from sales all that much.

If we look at Toyota, they have high sales numbers reportedly due to fleet sales, but do fleets buy them because the decision maker is a 'fan', or because they want the most cost effective and reliable vehicle?