Why Ford will fail in Australia.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'd hate to think that we descend to the level of calling Ranger buyers fools just because
they're prepared to pay a premium to get what they want.....

I think it's compelling that both Toyota an Ford are able to charge premium pricing for their
4x4 pick ups and still get decent sales, not only that, be the top two in the segment.

You get what you pay for. The Ranger, Hilux etc are worth every dollar over the competition. They are simply better vehicles. Drive better, better equipped, more powerful etc.

Isuzu recognized this and priced and specced the new D-Max to compete with them. The higher end stuff is where the action is. It's the cheaper stuff like the Triton and Navara that are falling behind and losing sales.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The word from America is over 300,000 reservations for Bronco with Ford expecting
around 70% conversion to orders, what we would give to have new, fresh product like that.

It must be clear to Ford by now that our tastes differ a bit from Europe but we're not entirely
American taste either...maybe something in between.

I like the sound of Bronco Sport and the new smaller dual cab Ute called Maverick, perhaps
Ford should take a look at a few different products for us, things that other manufacturers
in our market aren't really covering.....couldn't hurt.

All due respect jpd, when has it ever mattered what the word is from the USA ?!
As for our tastes differ a little bit from EU from the eyes of Detroit ?, well the sales of Audi/BM/MB arn't obvious to them for our poltry population base I dn't now what weed their on - last I knew were the 2nd largest AMG market per capita, even IF not that accurate blind freddy couldn't miss them.
Maybe all of Fords marketing is in regional outposts
I have my own theory, they couldn't be F'd stumping up the costs to pass ADR's - period. Not worth it to them YET the opponents comply and offer range.......
What WE Australia need for Ford to finally give us what we wish for, a long shot - is that someone knocks em off the perch in Nth America re F150 etc.....
Yes they should be looking for the holes that can draw buyers in that case, hello the proper Mach1, yes Bronco would be great, heck the bloody great looking Explorer should have long ago.
Its all the same ol same ol, drip feed and only what they want to spend full stop.
Not go out on a limb to the outposts, oh no there's kangaroo's on the streets.
Ol Bill Dix stuck his neck out, more so beloved Geoff Polities had to slam his fist of the table in Detroit for Terri going ahead...been a constant feel that 2 hands are round your neck squeezing you just enough to keep you alive.
So lets leave it at high end product on a few offerings, make the gp thankyou very much but most companies would be asking - would you like fries ?
The company frustrates me.
Polyal, think about it, cut costs, Factory, done, pay out factory workers, done, close sub supplier accounts, done, no Dealerships, retained Ford HQ increased employees due to Asia Pacific realm and design, wouldn't be doing that if the ROI wasn't coming in.
You Yangs still in ownership ? yes it is.

Sticking to high end less volume works in the Ute and Pony lines for their really isn't a lot of competition - so we've become the US way to market, for they don't wish to play in the other catergries as much for they see its too damn hard to compete.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by FTE217

All due respect jpd, when has it ever mattered what the word is from the USA ?!
As for our tastes differ a little bit from EU from the eyes of Detroit ?, well the sales of Audi/BM/MB arn't obvious to them for our poltry population base I dn't now what weed their on - last I knew were the 2nd largest AMG market per capita, even IF not that accurate blind freddy couldn't miss them.
Maybe all of Fords marketing is in regional outposts
I have my own theory, they couldn't be F'd stumping up the costs to pass ADR's - period. Not worth it to them YET the opponents comply and offer range.......
What WE Australia need for Ford to finally give us what we wish for, a long shot - is that someone knocks em off the perch in Nth America re F150 etc.....
Yes they should be looking for the holes that can draw buyers in that case, hello the proper Mach1, yes Bronco would be great, heck the bloody great looking Explorer should have long ago.
Its all the same ol same ol, drip feed and only what they want to spend full stop.
Not go out on a limb to the outposts, oh no there's kangaroo's on the streets.
Ol Bill Dix stuck his neck out, more so beloved Geoff Polities had to slam his fist of the table in Detroit for Terri going ahead...been a constant feel that 2 hands are round your neck squeezing you just enough to keep you alive.
So lets leave it at high end product on a few offerings, make the gp thankyou very much but most companies would be asking - would you like fries ?
The company frustrates me.
Polyal, think about it, cut costs, Factory, done, pay out factory workers, done, close sub supplier accounts, done, no Dealerships, retained Ford HQ increased employees due to Asia Pacific realm and design, wouldn't be doing that if the ROI wasn't coming in.
You Yangs still in ownership ? yes it is.

Sticking to high end less volume works in the Ute and Pony lines for their really isn't a lot of competition - so we've become the US way to market, for they don't wish to play in the other catergries as much for they see its too damn hard to compete.

The problem I see is not what Ford does or doesn't do, it's the way they think and see the world.

The reality is that Ford is highly focused on its own domestic market needs, that is where
it makes nearly all of it's profit, everywhere else is seen more as a drain on resources that
must be stopped or at least controlled. That is why we don't see Ford competing with Asian
carmakers but also, it sees no compelling reason to compete with premium German brands.


The reason I mentioned the 300k reservation for Bronco is that not do long ago, the Bronco
name was banned from conversations inside Ford management because Mulally saw no
value in Bronco, it was just unnecessary duplication.

The problem is entirely the way Ford looks at the market and buyers, risk aversion killed off
taking good calculated risks that any other time would be a safe bet.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The problem I see is not what Ford does or doesn't do, it's the way they think and see the world.

The reality is that Ford is highly focused on its own domestic market needs, that is where
it makes nearly all of it's profit, everywhere else is seen more as a drain on resources that
must be stopped or at least controlled. That is why we don't see Ford competing with Asian
carmakers' but also, it sees no compelling reason to compete with premium German brands.


The reason I mentioned the 300k reservation for Bronco is that not do long ago, the Bronco
name was banned from conversations inside Ford management because Mulally saw no
value in Bronco, it was just unnecessary duplication.

The problem is entirely the way Ford looks at the market and buyers, risk aversion killed off
taking good calculated risks that any other time would be a safe bet.

Something like this?

[FTE217]

I told you jdp, all about nth america as you've expressed as well.
The way they think ? just like all the US companys, themselves and their own market.
Name one that does well Export or once based offshore, none.
No they did once compete with Asian brands but got beaten and worked out trucks is their go to.
They never could compete with the euros it wasn't their dna (and would have costed too much god forbid ) but for Lincoln domestically.

Mullaly well don't go there.
The way Ford thinks ? domestically full stop always has always will.
Even if in good times they wouldn't take the calculated risk offshore, bean counters are bean counters, as long as they can keep their share holders satisfied (from smashing their board room doors down) there thats all that matters and I get that but its at our loss.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The problem is entirely the way Ford looks at the market and buyers.

Yet people line up to champion them, go figure.

There was a time when i was a blue blooded as they come, then i realised that the brand i loved really couldnt give a **** about the market i live in.

[MITCHAY]

Well if Ford fail here it won't be because of the quality of the cars. It will be price, marketing, and Ford after sales support.

[Tassie f100]

Realisticaly Ford don’t really care any more for Australia than they do for any other of their small international markets.Likewise Australia doesn’t owe Ford anything either.They make a product that the chief honchos reckon will sell on the world market.If we like it well and good ,if we don’t ,stiff,go buy something else we don’t care.Ford now is just another company that will sell here if we want to buy whatever is offered,just like Toyota,Nissan,Mitsi,the Euro,s and the Chinese and Koreans,I am quite sure they aren’t interested in listening to a little market like Aust

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Well if Ford fail here it won't be because of the quality of the cars. It will be price, marketing, and Ford after sales support.

This - small Ford's have been my go to as dailies over the past decade because they're fun to drive.

The steering accuracy and steering feel on even the povvo spec models is absolutely first rate on what comes out of Ford Europe's engineering department compared to the Asian competition.

Mazda used to be good until recently, then they completely isolated the driver from the throttle and steering wheel, the newer Mazda's really drive like **** in that you might as well as have a PS4 controller instead of a steering wheel because you can't feel anything through the wheel.

The problem for me is I don't like SUVs or Thailand specials and as a Fiesta and Focus customer I don't think the current model Focus is worth over $30K, it's nicely built but not good value.

I could be tempted into a Thailand special, a single cab 4x2 variant would be super convenient, except they're too povvo spec and underpowered for my liking.

I do have a fetish for a 2.7L Workmate Thailux with a Borgwarner EFR 6258 hanging off the side of it

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I could be tempted into a Thailand special

The sky is falling..

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Something like this?


image

The green bit above America is “America Lite”

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

The sky is falling..

You took the context out of it

I'm not asking for much, 225KW, disc brakes on the rear and a half decent stereo.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

You took the context out of it

I'm not asking for much, 225KW, disc brakes on the rear and a half decent stereo.

Yeah I did. I was a little worried about you loosing your sense of taste.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Yeah I did. I was a little worried about you loosing your sense of taste.

That went years ago

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

You took the context out of it

I'm not asking for much, 225KW, disc brakes on the rear and a half decent stereo.

Lebonater MK II..

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...6694479/?Cr=20

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Lebonater MK II..

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...6694479/?Cr=20

A fitting ride for this degenerate! That's got more chrome than an African American rappers mouth.

To be a Lebonator MkII it needs to be under $10K and a '20 meter' car - looks the goods from across the street, just don't get up close

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Yet people line up to champion them, go figure.

There was a time when i was a blue blooded as they come, then i realised that the brand i loved really couldnt give a **** about the market i live in.

There's a difference though, it is possible to be critical of head office thinking
while being supportive of local efforts to keep trying where they can.

For example, RAV4 Hybrid made a huge sales splash yet Ford passes on the rival US Hybrid Escape
and toes the Euro party line of 2.0 diesel, I'm sure it's a nice unit but doesn't have Hybrid's stardom.
That's just one example of matching products to where the market is now heading...

It not about "don't give a crap", it's false assumptions that a RHD Euro product will work here
when a slight switch will see it work much better.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

There's a difference though, it is possible to be critical of head office thinking
while being supportive of local efforts to keep trying where they can.

For example, RAV4 Hybrid made a huge sales splash yet Ford passes on the rival US Hybrid Escape
and toes the Euro party line of 2.0 diesel, I'm sure it's a nice unit but doesn't have Hybrid's stardom.
That's just one example of matching products to where the market is now heading...

It not about "don't give a crap", it's false assumptions that a RHD Euro product will work here
when a slight switch will see it work much better.

I have always been supportive of our local products, its the only thing thats kept my interest for the best part of 20yrs to be honest.
I love my Falcon/territory and even the work in design and engineering Ranger, i just despise the parent company who starved our manufacturing efforts of opportunity and then tell us what we can have, much of which we clearly dont want in worthwhile numbers whilst milking those who do for the supposed priveledge.
And thats just during the purchase stage, we wont mention the dealership experience for many once the contract is signed.

[kevino]

BENT 8

Have i missed something?
Has the Kia Picanto departed and been replaced by an ASX?

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

as a Fiesta and Focus customer I don't think the current model Focus is worth over $30K, it's nicely built but not good value.

^^^^This is Ford Australia's Biggest Problem. In My opinion.
Today Brand loyalty is out the Window particularly with Passenger cars. It's all about Perceived Value for Money(& good customer service) with the average Buyer..

[prydey]

Originally Posted by hayseed

^^^^This is Ford Australia's Biggest Problem. In My opinion.
Today Brand loyalty is out the Window particularly with Passenger cars. It's all about Perceived Value for Money(& good customer service) with the average Buyer..

Wrong. If it was about value for money, Toyota, Mazda and co wouldn't sell, and Ford would.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by prydey

Wrong. If it was about value for money, Toyota, Mazda and co wouldn't sell, and Ford would.

That's why I said It's all about Perceived Value for Money

It's the very reason the Companies you mentioned can (& do) charge More for their Vehicles..

[roddy1960]

I know , I know Ford Australia is a name plate only. It isn't , never was or never will be where it had a real say in it's destiny as demonstrated in October 2016 when we were told to switch off the factories .

However in spirit and in a tangible way directly with cars we drive it certainly was . Just the same with Holden of course because despite the fact that Australia corporately didn't own a nut off a Falcon , Kingswood or Commodore we were the core to the design and building of cars that used to be profitable to manufacture in the distant past .

The spirit for many of us is still there I guess for the Blue Oval but the link with Australia probably keeps disappearing as sales wane and different Ford badge vehicles sell in less numbers.

Seeing that the people here who still work for Ford are in design teams and R&D etc for world programs I hope they will be around while Ford itself exists but on the street in dealerships I guess the stand alone Ford dealerships dwindle.

The nearest one to me that used to be stand alone Ford seller , now trades in several brands and Ford .

If anybody had told me five years ago that by the end of 2020 Holden would actually be extinct I would have told them they were nuts ..

I hope Ford will still be around in Australia in 2025 but after the Holden collapse .......who can really say eh...

Oh yes ....and I still can't stand Cadogan ...the sanctimonious git .

[prydey]

Originally Posted by hayseed

That's why I said It's all about Perceived Value for Money

It's the very reason the Companies you mentioned can (& do) charge More for their Vehicles..

Apologies for the misunderstanding.

Yes, I agree. Not just value. The reasons most people choose Toyota over any other brand are mainly just perceptions, including reliability.

Long warranties help some brands but even that doesn't work for all. People are happy to try out the Koreans with a 7 yr safety net, yet other brands offer the same sort of safety net and don't get that success.

The simple fact is, there isn't one secret ingredient to winning.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by kevino

BENT 8

Have i missed something?
Has the Kia Picanto departed and been replaced by an ASX?

Yep, parted company about 3 months ago.
I wanted something more suited to off road and with more space for camping duties so the Territory went and replaced with the Pajero and the Picanto was then too small for the wife and kids so she bought herself an ASX.
Picanto was a great car for what it was, you see heaps of them around in GT/GT Line guise so it says something.

When i bought the Picanto it was after Ford told me they couldnt supply me with a Fiesta as they were finished, i liked the Fiesta as my daughter had one, she recently bought her 1st new car and ended up with a Kia Cerato sedan.
Thats 3 new cars in the sub 25k market that Ford missed out on in under 2 years by my household alone.
Probably doesnt worry them one bit as they'll just flog some more high end Rangers and all will be ok in their world.

[roddy1960]

[QUOTE=GasoLane;6507194]Something like this?


image[/QUOTE I love it .........

The scary part is that's probably the CIA that reference that as accurate demographic .....Only joking ...they wouldn't do it in colour ..They don't like colour .

[kevino]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Yep, parted company about 3 months ago.
I wanted something more suited to off road and with more space for camping duties so the Territory went and replaced with the Pajero and the Picanto was then too small for the wife and kids so she bought herself an ASX.
Picanto was a great car for what it was, you see heaps of them around in GT/GT Line guise so it says something.

When i bought the Picanto it was after Ford told me they couldnt supply me with a Fiesta as they were finished, i liked the Fiesta as my daughter had one, she recently bought her 1st new car and ended up with a Kia Cerato sedan.
Thats 3 new cars in the sub 25k market that Ford missed out on in under 2 years by my household alone.
Probably doesnt worry them one bit as they'll just flog some more high end Rangers and all will be ok in their world.

On a similar vein and related to Fords exit from sub $30000 cars. My LZ Focus went recently traded on a Skoda Fabia. Had a Fiesta been available new at 20 k odd it would have got first pick.
Brother in law just had his old Golf die after investing thousands in engine and transmission repairs. Initially he was looking at second hand round 20k. But with the covid induced increase in used car prices no value and I convinced him better to buy new.
In fact as he is not into driving I suggested he look at a new Cerato as value wise nothing comes close.
Yesterday he bought a demo Cerato 23 k drive away.
I couldn’t suggest a Ford as again they have exited the sub 30 k market.

Yes and as a result his kids now will
Probably add Kia to their look at list.
The interior features of the Cerato at its price point are impressive.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by kevino

On a similar vein and related to Fords exit from sub $30000 cars. My LZ Focus went recently traded on a Skoda Fabia. Had a Fiesta been available new at 20 k odd it would have got first pick.
Brother in law just had his old Golf die after investing thousands in engine and transmission repairs. Initially he was looking at second hand round 20k. But with the covid induced increase in used car prices no value and I convinced him better to buy new.
In fact as he is not into driving I suggested he look at a new Cerato as value wise nothing comes close.
Yesterday he bought a demo Cerato 23 k drive away.
I couldn’t suggest a Ford as again they have exited the sub 30 k market.

Yes and as a result his kids now will
Probably add Kia to their look at list.
The interior features of the Cerato at its price point are impressive.

My Daughter loves hers, she really wanted the sport for the alloys but couldnt justify the extra coin for slightly different trim and sat nav as she'd use google maps through carplay anyway so she went with the base model, the dealer then threw in a free set of 17's and tyres of her choice, mats, boot protector and free loan car at service.
She's racked up 7k kms already in 3 months, cant keep her out of it.

[kevino]

Will you change your avator to Mitsubishi diamond.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by kevino

Will you change your avator to Mitsubishi diamond.

Nope, i like the 'Black Oval' for its sinister, dark side of the force depiction, it lures you in with cheap prices and trouble free ownership even if it lacks soul.