More Aurion specs - Page 3

ClevlndStemer · 31-08-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilan

I am going to post this one more time, and I will not waste my time with you , hopefully your simple mind can comprehend this:
"In no other market is this 3.5L engine sold and the drivetrain is VERY different to the Camry! The styling is developed separately as well. The clay modelling was done here in Australia by a mob called "TSA" "

Hang on, no other market?
What is this here?

Kenster · 01-09-2006, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

I wish Toyota all the best with it. To be honest I think it is a lot of smoke and mirrors. After all it is just another V6 Camry. Sure they have got the 3.5 V6 in there, which has been rated as being a decent bloody engine. But like many others the car just doesn't tick enough of the right boxes, sure big power, but FWD, sorry no thanks, and it just looks OLD already, the VE has already outdated the looks of the Aurion IMO.

Not all bad for Toyota, they have a good marketing team who will try and convince the Australian public that like the outgoing Avalon, the Aurion is the second coming of Jesus. When in fact it's just a sheep in wolves clothing.

Time will tell though if I am wrong, and if I am well good on toyota.

: you realise there are more Toyota camry been seen on the road as much as any Ford and Holden not to mention with fuel price still that high i say people will buy it even if it FWD or AWD. Toyota got the representation for good fuel ecnomony and repeaible (if that how you spell it)

Full Spectrum · 01-09-2006, 12:47 AM

The economy and power seems to come from Toyota using direct injection. I'm sure in the next 12-24 months holden and ford will adopt this and pass Toyota.

Kenster · 01-09-2006, 12:54 AM

well the thing is that Fod is currently using Toyota engine system combin in they car. Current b-series fleets is using the vvti. Alloytech not to sure im assuming is Holden answer to VVTi

Pieoter · 01-09-2006, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dauphin

I only mentioned AWD because some other poster did.. was my reaction. I wonder if it's really AWD. I actually don't remember AWD being mentioned anywhere at the Motor Show now that I think about it.

Have you heard of that feature some FWD cars have that monitor the steering and throttle, and apply some artificial counter-steering (or some front torque-splitting?) behind the scenes to make it feel like there's no torque steer? That's a great idea, should be applied on the Aurion with that much power.

Certain type of LSD's will prevent torque steer (Quaife types), Equal length driveshafts will help somewhat. The Ralliart Colt uses as computer controlled diff to prevent it aswell. A modern FWD will not suffer from torque steer atleast not to the degree people seem to think.

Imspired by F1 doesn't mean it will use parts taken directly from a F1 car. Much can be learnt about use of materials and part reliability at the extreme. F1 cars don't use tiptronic gearboxes BTW they use Manual boxes with computer controlled clutches. A DSG is basically a F1 box.

Dave_au · 01-09-2006, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

Actually that engine is built by Yamaha

Yamaha designed, Toyota built. Toyota and Yamaha are related entities anyway.

Dave_au · 01-09-2006, 01:23 AM

Don't knock these 3.5L toyota engines. this engine that they are putting in the Aurion - if your wondering what it would be able to do if it was rwd with a few NA tuning improvements, have a look at the Lexus IS350 sold in the US - it's the same block.

The Aurion will feature the 2GR-FE block. The Lexus IS350 engine is the 2GR-FSE - primarily it's a different twin injection system.

As for the IS350's/2GR-FSE performance? 232kw/377NM 0-100 in 5.3 seconds weight approx 1,600kg (rwd).

Quote:

Originally Posted by turboute

Can someone please show me where they read that It will be AWD? On their site it does not mention anything about AWD, only that it has a S/C engine, you would think they would put up the AWD spec as it is a big selling point.

Maybe marketing buzz when the car is finally released - maybe Toyota want a show stopper for the Sydney Motor Show....

Quote:

Note that it would take alot of engineering / platform changes to impliment an AWD platform in what is basically a Camry.

Aurion is sitting on the old wide body camry floorplan. This is the same floorplan that the AWD Kluger sits on.

Quote:

as for the huge power output - it is restricted when cornering (110Kw or so) to stop torque steer.

Where is you source for that one? Never heard of it - sounds a bit far fetched unless your refering to something like trace control on the Magnas - but that only comes into effect when the car knows you've stuffed up - and doesnt cut kw power it just cuts back the throttle.

merlin · 01-09-2006, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Yamaha designed, Toyota built. Toyota and Yamaha are related entities anyway.

Yeah that is what I meant - was too lazy to go back and change it.

:

mowog · 01-09-2006, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

Yeah that is what I meant - was too lazy to go back and change it.

:

Taken from a white paper on the 2ZZGE

ABSTRACT
The 2ZZ-GE is a sporty 1.8 liter engine based on the
1ZZ-FE, which is currently being mass produced in
Japan, USA, and Canada.
It was designed to fit into the same engine compartment
as the base 1ZZ-FE, have equivalent vehicle
performance as a 2.2 liter engine, and meet TLEV
emission standards.
The main features of the 2ZZ-GE are the Metal Matrix
Composite (MMC) reinforced all-aluminum cylinder block
and the intelligent Variable Valve Timing and Lift (VVTL-i)
system. These features were adopted for size and
performance.
Other features such as a reinforced ladder frame, and an
intake manifold spacer was utilized for a sporty engine
sound.

and

ACKNOWLEDGMENTS
The authors would like to thank those both within and
outside our company including suppliers for their valuable
assistance and advice offered to us. Special thanks to the
Yamaha Motor Company for their help in developing this
engine.

blutura · 01-09-2006, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turboute

as for the huge power output - it is restricted when cornering (110Kw or so) to stop torque steer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Where is you source for that one? Never heard of it - sounds a bit far fetched unless your refering to something like trace control on the Magnas - but that only comes into effect when the car knows you've stuffed up - and doesnt cut kw power it just cuts back the throttle.

Yeah, I'm calling BS on that one too. The Alfa 159 is FWD and handles 191kw without needing to cut it back through corners.

turboute · 01-09-2006, 03:18 PM

Yeah cant remember where I read that - it probably was just talking about a throttle cut of sorts...

As For:

Quote:

Originally Posted by nb_351

and dont get me wrong, i love rwd cars, but i now drive a fwd mazda...
and its better than anything ford or holden will ever offer for under 25 grand onroad...

It's funny cause a mazda is a ford to some degree...

Bossxr8 · 01-09-2006, 05:26 PM

[QUOTE=nb_351]all these people that are bagging this thing? wtf?
in regard to the marketing... saying its f1 inspired, whats the difference between that and ford saying the gt is v8 supercar inspired?
wheres the similarity apart from the shell...
theres nothing like a locked 9 inch in a road car, or any mention of a 5l anymore...
just cause it has a big front splitter and a big rear spoiler?
QUOTE]

At least the V8 Supercars share the shell and panels with the road cars, the Aurion shares absolutely nothing with the F1 car. Toyota can't even win an F1 race with a budget twice that of any other team.

Bossxr8 · 01-09-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenter

well the thing is that Fod is currently using Toyota engine system combin in they car. Current b-series fleets is using the vvti. Alloytech not to sure im assuming is Holden answer to VVTi

Variable Camshaft Timing used by Ford is totally different from Toyotas VVTi, being Variable Valve Timing. They work in different ways.

kjau99 · 02-09-2006, 08:01 PM

If I buy anything but a Ford, it certainly won't be a Toyota.

McobraR · 02-09-2006, 09:11 PM

Anyone read that thread 'australia's fav. car'? i guess i was right, all the people here saying aussies prefer rwd is seriously old-school. I had a weird feeling that the majority of commodore/falc sales were fleet, and that thread proves it!. aussies dont prefer rwd and thats a fact. The Aurion and camry, whether fwd or not, is definitely a contender with the falc and commodore.

XR Martin · 02-09-2006, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blutura

Yeah, I'm calling BS on that one too. The Alfa 159 is FWD and handles 191kw without needing to cut it back through corners.

But it should, its a terrible handling car.

Pieoter · 03-09-2006, 01:21 AM

The 3.2L (191kw) 159 is a 4wd and is a good handling car.

The FWD alfas also have good handling. Just because you think good handling mean power oversteer doesn't mean its try. You have to adjust driving style from RWD to FWD.

I don't see why people in falcadores think FWD is the devil but if you had any skill you'll be able to drive both platforms well.

XR Martin · 03-09-2006, 03:10 AM

I was thinking of the 3.2L V6 147 Alfa, which is FWD and is a turd
Go and watch the Top Gear test of the 3.2 147, its shocking, and although the Stig makes it look like it handles ok on the 'power lap', its bloody slow doing so.

chich · 03-09-2006, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

The economy and power seems to come from Toyota using direct injection. I'm sure in the next 12-24 months holden and ford will adopt this and pass Toyota.

BZZZZ - wrong

Full Spectrum · 03-09-2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chich

BZZZZ - wrong

Care to enlighten me then to how i am wrong other then BZZZZ??.

Falcon Freak · 03-09-2006, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Care to enlighten me then to how i am wrong other then BZZZZ??.

What chich says is correct.

FF

chich · 03-09-2006, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Care to enlighten me then to how i am wrong other then BZZZZ??.

If i could i would - just take my word for it.

Sapper · 03-09-2006, 07:49 PM

I'd say 12-24 may be too early for direct injection in holdens and fords. However, if the federal government continues to give grants for further development of the barra motor then its only a matter of time.

McobraR · 03-09-2006, 08:36 PM

In septembers edition of wheels mag, it states mooney saying the introduction of direct injection V6 is a little more than 12 months away, probably coinciding with the first update of the VE.
Another quote from september wheels mag "In May, GM announced the first DI version of the engine would be a 3.6L for an unspecified 2008 model in North America". So its safe to say that DI will be introduced for the VE sometime in 2008. Thats about 16 to 24 months away.
I think Orion would need at least 220kw to match the updated VE, since DI supposedly will push the power past 215kw for the alloytec, though, i guess thats just wishful thinking

Full Spectrum · 04-09-2006, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McobraR

In septembers edition of wheels mag, it states mooney saying the introduction of direct injection V6 is a little more than 12 months away, probably coinciding with the first update of the VE.
Another quote from september wheels mag "In May, GM announced the first DI version of the engine would be a 3.6L for an unspecified 2008 model in North America". So its safe to say that DI will be introduced for the VE sometime in 2008. Thats about 16 to 24 months away.
I think Orion would need at least 220kw to match the updated VE, since DI supposedly will push the power past 215kw for the alloytec, though, i guess thats just wishful thinking

At a guess i would say 216kw 365Nm under 10l/100. Then ad 6 speed which is coming and you got a Aurion type power economy with just DI.
Still even 2 years away 215-220kw+ seems very high for a 6.

McobraR · 05-09-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

At a guess i would say 216kw 365Nm under 10l/100. Then ad 6 speed which is coming and you got a Aurion type power economy with just DI.
Still even 2 years away 215-220kw+ seems very high for a 6.

Yeh its pretty high, but considering the duratec 35 will be able to reach 224kw NA, im sure future 6 cylinders will be having that much power in no time (if im correct the honda legend has about 224kw already).

Pieoter · 05-09-2006, 11:37 AM

2L engine in the late 80's managed to reach 140kw

**PepeLePew** · 05-09-2006, 12:54 PM

Hate to say it but if Toyota can inject some soul into their large car offerings (which is what I still havent seen yet, I mean if they had would they need Natalie Bassingwhatserface in a short skirt up front?), I'd predict the death of the locally built large car within the next 5-10 years.

Unless there is a radical change in build quality in the local produce b/w now and then perhaps....

You'd think if Aus was important enough Toyota could price anyone they fancied out of the market at a whim as it is...

I'd have a squiz at the Aurion S/C....why not really.