Teaching a Learner Driver

[JC]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

I worked for 13 years as a driver trainer, mostly in trucks but I taught heaps of kids.

Be pro-active in your instruction, do NOT assume your daughter knows, she doesn't.

No point screaming "why did you go through the stop sign" when she didn't know she had to stop for example. A fair way away, you should say "what is that sign ahead", hopefully she answers "stop sign", you then say "what do do you do at a stop sign" and hopefully she will say "stop", so the seed is planted and then encourage her to apply the brakes gently and come to a stop before crossing the sold whit line (as stopping after it is a fail) - be pro-active, not reactive

Start teaching her in an auto so she gets the idea of the flow of traffic and abiding by the law, driving a manual can come later

^^^^^This is pretty much what I do - talk them through it, and make sure they know what’s around them. Ask them what they intend to do eg if coming to a roundabout, and a car is approaching but further away, what do they do? They should go, but depends on the speed of the other car. Explain that while they have right of way, in this situation it’s better to give way. Etc….

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by JC

^^^^^This is pretty much what I do - talk them through it, and make sure they know what’s around them. Ask them what they intend to do eg if coming to a roundabout, and a car is approaching but further away, what do they do? They should go, but depends on the speed of the other car. Explain that while they have right of way, in this situation it’s better to give way. Etc….

Depth perception and speed judgement are a couple of the hardest things to teach

Of course if they are female or left handed that brings a whole new challenge, or maybe a left handed female, something all the experts haven't mentioned I don't think

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

You can see what good drivers that the driving teachers make out on the roads everyday. lets just be thankful for that .

Your sarcasm is misdirected ol mate. Car driving instructors DO NOT test their own students, the roads authority do that, so the people on the road have passed their test with a roads authority authorised tester, not a driving instructor

Don't let facts get in the way of a bit of sarcasm eh?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Interesting, only one person who has been a driving instructor and so far my post has been ignored

Actually, I didn't get in the car with my daughter until she'd had a few lessons with an instructor.

This is the best way in my opinion. So many parents think they are good drivers and know all the rules etc, but in reality the opposite is mostly true. Kids just learn their parents bad habits.

We didn't use the cheapest driving school we could find either. Went through the RAA (NRMA). My daughters instructor was female (her choice) and was qualified right up to B double status.

At the end of her log book training, I couldn't recommend this person enough. I accompanied my daughter for most of her hours they have to clock up these days, day and night, and by the end I was more than comfortable with her out driving on her own.

I think instructors are the best way. After all, it's what they do for a living.

[FTE217]

Kudos to all the good Mums and Dads (most Dads here I expect) who have helped/guided their kids to learning respecting the road rules best they can and that its a privilidge.
Nothing more to say - for countless thousands have done pretty a ok.
A mix with qualified Instructors as mentioned is a great benefit.

[whynot]

There are some interesting academic articles on learner drivers. I find this type of research quite interesting as there is solid empirical evidence to back up the finding of the research.

This paper from the Queensland University of Technology noted that mothers provided the most driver training supervision for learners, followed by fathers. With 91% of learners having 10 hours of professional training.

https://eprints.qut.edu.au/40487/1/c40487.pdf

This article was also interesting with the concept of how learners gained Higher Order Driving Skills.

https://eprints.qut.edu.au/202293/1/62308552.pdf

And this in depth article from University of the Sunshine Coast was also interesting reading (but very long)

USC research Operationalising theoretical frameworks

[slowsnake]

Lots of good advice here, but, no matter what you say or what you teach, most accidents are not caused by you, but by other inconsiderate road users, some kids have parents who dont care, they do not have any experience these kids, usually no licence, and devoid of conscience, but get their wheels by stealing and then speeding away, usually chased by police, so you are not the problem, its others, so keep ya wits about you, you can't read what other road users are going to do, so be AWARE of your surroundings at all times, and if in regional areas at dusk or dawn be aware of kangaroos, and don't swerve to miss them especially at speed, just hit the brakes and hit the roo!

Sad but true, do not swerve at speed, just have to hang on and hit them


Cheers Billy

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Interesting, only one person who has been a driving instructor and so far my post has been ignored

Interesting take Trev considering there's been 67 posts on the subject and you've only chosen 3 to 'thank' yourself and those were only responses to your posts.

Does this lack of acknowledgement suggest we're clueless or you just didn't bother to read them?

[FPV+fteT3]

I spent many hours teaching both my girls to drive. Manual subaru both had @ 2-3 paid lessons to learn what would be asked at the test both passed and both now 26-28 prefer to shift their own gears and have only had 1 maybe 2 minor bingles during the years.
I do a lot of driving @50k per year for work I didn't need anyone else to teach them how to drive, learn awareness and try and predict the next stupid move coming your way. I do all of that every day.
The problem I have with driving schools is real hours v's recorded hours. You cant learn awareness and experience without doing the time no matter how big a head is on the person in the passenger seat.They may think they are Ayerton but they could be Maldonardo.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Interesting take Trev considering there's been 67 posts on the subject and you've only chosen 3 to 'thank' yourself and those were only responses to your posts.

Does this lack of acknowledgement suggest we're clueless or you just didn't bother to read them?

Not at all, there is some good responses, but not many focus on the learner and what it takes to teach them, there was a stack of peripheral stuff about changing tyres etc. There are far more basic skills the kids need to get right first before worrying about that - the kids need to be taught how to survive on the roads and to be truly defensive in their driving - not too many posts actually focus on the NEED to knows, they are focusing on the NICE to knows so not worth commenting on

I was dipping my toe in to offer up some first hand experience, but not too many are interested, that's cool - one can only try

I spent a portion of my driver training career training 16-18 yo's, but most of my time was spent training experienced HV drivers, drivers who were already licenced but their companies wanted to upskill their knowledge and skills.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Not at all, there is some good responses, but not many focus on the learner and what it takes to teach them, there was a stack of peripheral stuff about changing tyres etc. There are far more basic skills the kids need to get right first before worrying about that - the kids need to be taught how to survive on the roads and to be truly defensive in their driving - not too many posts actually focus on the NEED to knows, they are focusing on the NICE to knows so not worth commenting on

I was dipping my toe in to offer up some first hand experience, but not too many are interested, that's cool - one can only try

I spent a portion of my driver training career training 16-18 yo's, but most of my time was spent training experienced HV drivers, drivers who were already licenced but their companies wanted to upskill their knowledge and skills.

Yeah I know fella, just stirring.

[.:4:.]

At my last job, 2 blokes had no aspirations to drive. So no L plates or anything. So towards the end of their apprenticeships the boss pulled them aside (this was years apart) and said bluntly to both, if you cannot drive at the end of your apprenticeship you will be effectively usless as a tradesman so without P plates, the day you finish your time will be your last at the company. So all the work cars were manuals, so manual Ps were the requirement. One bloke got his auto Ps. The boss turned around and said he has a van, but its a manual, so unless the bloke worked something out that works, hes gone. So that bloke used his personal car, paid his own fuel etc. He was a sketchy driver. When he got his greens he was thrown in an express van. Theyre not too hard to drive at all, just lack visability. So it didnt last long before it was written off after the 3rd accident finished it.
The other bloke, he did get his Ps in a manual. I kinda feel sorry for this bloke. Neither of his parents had ever held a drivers licence, his family never had a car. They lived in a housing commission property. He was 1 of 5 kids, his parents never worked. So good on him getting out of the system, but he had to pay instructors for all his hours. So he took the day off to do his test and passed. Told the boss and the boss said get to the office at 8am to sort out insurances etc, take the rest of the day to orginise the van and he was paid the day for that. So express van, fuel card all that. But again, no aspiration to drive. So super sketchy. 7 accidents in a year. What wrote that van off was stopping in flood water and subsequently bent rods. The next van he also smashed, but only once before he got upgraded to a ute.
So there has to be that 'want' to drive. Or motorvation. I got my junior boat licence the moment i could which i dunno if thats changed but it was restricted but you could get it at 12 back then. Ls the moment i turned 16, Ps the moment i turned 17, greens yep, 18 and unrestricted at 20. For myself it was freedom as in the world turns into a bigger place when you have the ability to go more places at your own leasure, not tied to others convenience or pubic transport timetables. Ive never been in an at fault incident. Rear ended 3 times and sideswiped once by a drunk, so not due to myself. In 18 years only had 1 demerit which was under 10kmh over the speed limit, but it was 5:28am in the harbour tunnel. Im pretty sure i was asleep at the wheel.... or thats my excuse anyways.

[Trevor 57]

one of the things the becomes abundantly clear when you spend a lot of time in the left seat is that there is a minority of people who just should never drive - it is just too complicated for them. I have seen it in kids and in already licenced drivers including car drivers and some of who were in HV's or hoping to be in HV's

Could drive their lubed finger up their . . . . . No amount of instruction was going to get them there - it is unfortunate, but the truth

That is why I hate dodgy licence testers (roads authorities for cars and private providers for HV's), I have seen both doing dodgy stuff

My last traffic infringement was December 1998 - touch wood and I drove trucks after that and driver LOTS of k's in cars

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by prydey

Actually, I didn't get in the car with my daughter until she'd had a few lessons with an instructor.

This is the best way in my opinion. So many parents think they are good drivers and know all the rules etc, but in reality the opposite is mostly true. Kids just learn their parents bad habits.

We didn't use the cheapest driving school we could find either. Went through the RAA (NRMA). My daughters instructor was female (her choice) and was qualified right up to B double status.

At the end of her log book training, I couldn't recommend this person enough. I accompanied my daughter for most of her hours they have to clock up these days, day and night, and by the end I was more than comfortable with her out driving on her own.

I think instructors are the best way. After all, it's what they do for a living.

Absolutely agree with you on this as I was afraid of passing on any bad habits I may have had, I don't know who was more nervous me or them when first starting to teach them to drive.
Cheers

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Itsme

Absolutely agree with you on this as I was afraid of passing on any bad habits I may have had, I don't know who was more nervous me or them when first starting to teach them to drive.
Cheers

Also, instructors are always up with the latest rules. Whether we agree with them or not, road rules do change and sometimes we aren't aware of all the changes. On top of that, many of us aren't aware of all the rules anyway.

[Trevor 57]

Like the using a left indicator when leaving a roundabout in Victoria - it has been law since 1999

Like giving way to ALL vehicles when doing a U-turn in Victoria, including those facing a stop or giveway signs - changed in 1999

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Like the using a left indicator when leaving a roundabout in Victoria - it has been law since 1999

Like giving way to ALL vehicles when doing a U-turn in Victoria, including those facing a stop or giveway signs - changed in 1999

Well that LH indicator doesn’t apply in Tassie.RH ind for turning right .LH if turning left.If going straight no indicator.One rule that doesn’t seem to apply anywhere is giving way when merging into traffic when there are white lines at the end of the left lane.And others flying into roundabouts thinking the give way to the right rule applies

[BENT_8]

Form One Lane and Left Lane Ends are a couple that people get wrong.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Form One Lane and Left Lane Ends are a couple that people get wrong.

Yeah seems that drivers in the left lane reckon indicators give them right of way

[slowsnake]

When driving in an area you don't know always be aware of what's going on around you, and make sure your doors are locked, there is more to driving than the actual physical part, you have to make sure you are safe from the outside world, being inside a car feels safe, until it isn't!


Cheers Bily

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Well that LH indicator doesn’t apply in Tassie.RH ind for turning right .LH if turning left.If going straight no indicator.One rule that doesn’t seem to apply anywhere is giving way when merging into traffic when there are white lines at the end of the left lane.And others flying into roundabouts thinking the give way to the right rule applies

Here is a case in point, I just downloaded the Tasmanian Road Rules booklet and on page 50, there it is in black and white

When entering a roundabout you must:
• follow any arrows indicating the direction to travel
• use your indicator if you intend to turn left, right or make a U-turn, and
• indicate left when exiting the roundabout, where practical.



When travelling straight ahead at a roundabout:
• you must indicate left when leaving the roundabout, where practical, and
• remember to stop indicating as soon as you have left the roundabout.

However when you go to the Tasmanian Road Rules 2019, downloaded from the Government website, it says this about use of indicators

44. Division does not apply to entering or leaving a roundabout
This Division does not apply to –
(a) a driver entering, in or leaving a roundabout; or
(b) the rider of a motor bike who is lane filtering in accordance with rule 151A.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Yeah seems that drivers in the left lane reckon indicators give them right of way

While this may be so (it annoys me also) it doesn't cost much to let them in.

[Stubbie]

First of all good luck. It was one of the scariest times of my life, especially trying to teach my son in a manual car. Gave that up after he went through a giveway sign narrowly missing a couple of cars. First I would buy her, her own car. My kids were petrified of smashing my car. It would help if you could find an open space were there is nothing to run into or if your lucky like me, our street goes around in a rectangle so we could keep continually going around. Found it better to do a couple of laps of our street to get them aclimatised before going out into traffic. And quiet country roads are a good starting point. I wouldn't bother about the maintenance side of the car as there not going to look at it ever again anyway no matter what you say. As long as they know were the gas goes, that's all they need.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Your sarcasm is misdirected ol mate. Car driving instructors DO NOT test their own students, the roads authority do that, so the people on the road have passed their test with a roads authority authorised tester, not a driving instructor

Don't let facts get in the way of a bit of sarcasm eh?

It was just a statement, I thought overall.

I would not like to be a driving instructor and I do not bag such a one who does such, only that I do not support the Governments position on bagging that people should learn how to handle a car, as they claim that will only create hoons, too bag when one driving a care does not truly know what to do when the car starts to get out of control, so it's too late then.

Had a mate who would hook in on out back roads where he grew up and his wife was trying driving like he does and he said slow down a number of times because he knew that she did not know how to truly drive, she was just like say 90% of people with a licence incompetent to truly understand how to truly control a car. so she ended up rolling it and killed his dog.

I can be a passenger in a car with someone driving fast and have much confidence in there ability's but then again have no confidence at all in another regardless but they all have a licence and some I would not even get in the car with them at all.

When driving on dirt roads hours every day it could help to truly know how to truly drive. the Gov work off the lowest denominator system as it's paper work inspired and such has no room for common sense inspiration or content, it's all one eyed Law founded on the old Testament but lacking Grace, so such can become just only dictated nonsense, with no room for reality. so everything is based on the lowest denominator.

I have driven at the posted limit 100KM/H totally within the law but I knew if some situating arisen I knew their was no hope of controlling it and that was on a straight highway, all that it would of took was something to pop up and if I could not slow down in time you are going to hit such because to manoeuver such a thing was like trying to wrestle an alligator, this thing is not going to co-operate.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Yeah seems that drivers in the left lane reckon indicators give them right of way

They do, at a 'Form One Lane' sign if they have overlap, as that sign means both lanes become 1.
The 'Left Lane Ends' is where people in the left lane must yield regardless of vehicle positioning.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

They do, at a 'Form One Lane' sign if they have overlap, as that sign means both lanes become 1.
The 'Left Lane Ends' is where people in the left lane must yield regardless of vehicle positioning.

The rule quite clearly states.If the white lines end before merging,the vehicle in front has right of way.If the broken white lines continue to the end of the left lane,then the vehicle in the left lane must give way to the right lane.Passing lanes on main rds are nearly always white lined to the end of the left lane,but drivers in the left lane flick on the indicators and drive out in front of whoever,because they reckon the indicator gives them right of way

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Like the using a left indicator when leaving a roundabout in Victoria - it has been law since 1999

Like giving way to ALL vehicles when doing a U-turn in Victoria, including those facing a stop or giveway signs - changed in 1999

A lot of drivers don't know their left from right as I experience many who go straight through roundabouts using their right indicators when exiting; very frustrating which ****s me to tears.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

The rule quite clearly states.If the white lines end before merging,the vehicle in front has right of way.If the broken white lines continue to the end of the left lane,then the vehicle in the left lane must give way to the right lane.Passing lanes on main rds are nearly always white lined to the end of the left lane,but drivers in the left lane flick on the indicators and drive out in front of whoever,because they reckon the indicator gives them right of way

Originally Posted by BENT_8

They do, at a 'Form One Lane' sign if they have overlap, as that sign means both lanes become 1.
The 'Left Lane Ends' is where people in the left lane must yield regardless of vehicle positioning.

I do believe some states rules slightly vary in regards to who yields first, it would pay to read each states rules.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

The rule quite clearly states.If the white lines end before merging,the vehicle in front has right of way.If the broken white lines continue to the end of the left lane,then the vehicle in the left lane must give way to the right lane.Passing lanes on main rds are nearly always white lined to the end of the left lane,but drivers in the left lane flick on the indicators and drive out in front of whoever,because they reckon the indicator gives them right of way

In SA, the broken white lines don't extend to the end of the lane where a 'Form One Lane' sign is installed, thats why the leading vehicle has right of way in either lane.

Where a 'Left Lane Ends' sign is installed the broken white line continues to the end of the lane as they do where 'Overtaking' lanes end. In this instance, the vehicle in the left lane must give way regardless of positioning.

These two scenarios are often confused as many people don't know the difference.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Itsme

I do believe some states rules slightly vary in regards to who yields first, it would pay to read each states rules.

Not according to this under the subheading 'Merging'

https://www.rsac.tas.gov.au/campaign...ules-tasmania/

Note the broken line in both graphics.
Its the same as in SA