According to Drive Ranger XL and XLS are not selling?

[prydey]

Nevermind

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

To refresh your memory from the discussions about the Thailand Specials in the past how ones with decent engines wouldn't sell - how many Raptors and V6 variations are they selling now they're offered to the market?

Apparently no one wanted them until it was an option offered to the market and suddenly look at this people are buying a twin turbo unleaded V6 variation of the Ranger.

The first Ranger Raptor was an Australian project that only got approved because it didn’t involve changing the front end to fit another engine, and the team there put the best engine they could in that platform.

There was no other engine, including the diesel V6 that’d fit. Sales hugely exceeded expectations by a long way.

Guess what, we now have a new power train, a different engine box, and now the new Gen Raptor can fly.

But like you’d normally say, it’s just a Thailand special.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by prydey

I'm not sure the others are much different. Mazda just rebadge someone else's efforts. I'm not sure how many others offer multiple engine options but the ones that are selling are generally all the same driveline.

Toyota are more the exception rather than the rule. Have been for many years.

Ahh, sorry, I was referencing the wider Mazda range, not just the BT-50. Multiple variants, choice of engines ect.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

The first Ranger Raptor was an Australian project that only got approved because it didn’t involve changing the front end to fit another engine, and the team there put the best engine they could in that platform.

There was no other engine, including the diesel V6 that’d fit. Sales hugely exceeded expectations by a long way.

Guess what, we now have a new power train, a different engine box, and now the new Gen Raptor can fly.

But like you’d normally say, it’s just a Thailand special.

No doubt the 2.3L Ecoboost engine would have fit in the PX Ranger Raptor so I'm not going to believe that 'they put the best engine they could' in it because funnily enough the USDM Ranger has a 2.3L Ecoboost engine.

I can dig up all the criticism from everyone on the release of the PX Ranger Raptor about it's lame engine and even where Ford Australia tried to tell everyone they were wrong for their criticism if you would like.

The counterpoint to your argument is that there's a reason why the new Raptor has the 3L Ecoboost engine instead of the 2L diesel turd that they released the previous generation with, maybe Ford Australia learned something from that fiasco.

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by barra240t

If the built 3L in XL/XLS they wouldn't be in that lower price bracket though, its a $3k premium from BT to V6.

so 57 and 58 plus onroads, not much over 60, can guarantee they would have pushed the budget

side note, im stuck in pre covid days on what these things should be worth when ford have stock and do deals to clear them

in 4x4 dual cab pick up v6 (if they made all in v6) it should be

xl - 48
xls 51
xlt 57
sport 64
wildtrak 70
raptor 85

all drive away.

hopefully we get back to precovid days soon. no way would i fork out 70 plus for a v6 xlt

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

No doubt the 2.3L Ecoboost engine would have fit in the PX Ranger Raptor so I'm not going to believe that 'they put the best engine they could' in it because funnily enough the USDM Ranger has a 2.3L Ecoboost engine.

I can dig up all the criticism from everyone on the release of the PX Ranger Raptor about it's lame engine and even where Ford Australia tried to tell everyone they were wrong for their criticism if you would like.

The counterpoint to your argument is that there's a reason why the new Raptor has the 3L Ecoboost engine instead of the 2L diesel turd that they released the previous generation with, maybe Ford Australia learned something from that fiasco.

I’d say you are trolling, and probably an “admin person” (that says they “run a fleet”), and not a chief program engineer on something like PX Ranger (that has a budget that is controlled by a program financially, and to what powertrains are available or fit).

But good luck to you, you’re on the internet, you “won”, and you know best

Oh BTW: Many Australians work in the Thailand Ford Plant (in management and engineering) to produce the Ranger, but like you say, they’re “Thailand” specials.

I hope you comments about “Thailand Specials” regarding Ranger aren’t motivated by something “unsavoury” ?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

I’d say you are trolling, and probably an “admin person” (that says they “run a fleet”), and not a chief program engineer on something like PX Ranger (that has a budget that is controlled by a program financially, and to what powertrains are available or fit).

But good luck to you, you’re on the internet, you “won”, and you know best

Oh BTW: Many Australians work in the Thailand Ford Plant (in management and engineering) to produce the Ranger, but like you say, they’re “Thailand” specials.

I hope you comments about “Thailand Specials” regarding Ranger aren’t motivated by something “unsavoury” ?

Ah yes, talking about budgets, can someone enlighten me to as what the budget was for both the PX Ranger development and the current generation Ranger? They're sold in 180 or so global markets, no?

I'd hazard guess the budget was a touch larger than the FG Falcon, maybe even the VE Commodore.

I see you've changed stories now that the 2.3L Ecoboost has come into the conversation (that was obviously available to them), so we'll entertain it with the budget conversation for the PX and current gen Ranger platform.

As for your thinly veiled attempt at calling me a racist, what else do you want to clutch at straws for next?

While we're also talking prices lets go back to 2011 and look at PX Ranger pricing structure and model breakdown:

$19,740 XL single cab 4x2 cab chassis 2.5 manual
$23,740 XL single cab 4x2 cab chassis 2.2 manual
$28,740 XL single cab 4x2 cab chassis Hi-Rider 2.2 manual
$24,740 XL single cab 4x2 pick-up 2.2 manual
$33,240 XL super cab 4x2 cab chassis Hi-Rider 2.2 auto
$43,240 XLT super cab 4x2 pick-up Hi-Rider 3.2 auto
$30,240 XL dual cab 4x2 pick-up 2.5 manual
$35,990 XL dual cab 4x2 cab chassis Hi-Rider 2.2 auto
$34,990 XL dual cab 4x2 pick-up Hi-Rider 2.2 manual (auto opt.)
$44,490 XLT dual cab 4x2 pick-up Hi-Rider 3.2 manual (auto opt.)
$38,390 XL single cab 4x4 cab chassis 2.2 manual
$40,890 XL single cab 4x4 cab chassis 3.2 manual (auto opt.)
$43,390 XL super cab 4x4 cab chassis 3.2 manual
$44,390 XL super cab 4x4 pick-up 3.2 manual
$50,890 XLT super cab 4x4 pick-up 3.2 manual (auto opt.)
$42,890 XL dual cab 4x4 cab chassis 2.2 manual (auto opt.)
$43,890 XL dual cab 4x4 pick-up 2.2 manual (auto opt.)
$46,390 XL dual cab 4x4 pick-up 3.2 manual (auto opt.)
$53,390 XLT dual cab 4x4 pick-up 3.2 manual (auto opt.)
$57,390 Wildtrak dual cab 4x4 pick-up 3.2 manual (auto opt.)

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...contest-26563/

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Ah yes, talking about budgets, can someone enlighten me to as what the budget was for both the PX Ranger development and the current generation Ranger? They're sold in 180 or so global markets, no?

I'd hazard guess the budget was a touch larger than the FG Falcon, maybe even the VE Commodore.

I see you've changed stories now that the 2.3L Ecoboost has come into the conversation (that was obviously available to them), so we'll entertain it with the budget conversation for the PX and current gen Ranger platform.

As for your thinly veiled attempt at calling me a racist, what else do you want to clutch at straws for next?

While we're also talking prices lets go back to 2011 and look at PX Ranger pricing structure and model breakdown:



https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...contest-26563/

Thanks for your feedback.

I’m looking forward to your comments on “Thailand specials”, going forward, it’s up to you.

I hope you have children, and they like your posts.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by barra240t

If the built 3L in XL/XLS they wouldn't be in that lower price bracket though, its a $3k premium from BT to V6.

and thats just the engine. add in mandatory AWD and rear discs, electric park brake and e-shifter that are also required for the V6. your $3k premium is now more like $5k at least.

oh, and if you want it in the single cab you'll need to engineer a new centre console as the standard one won't fit the e-shifter nor the electronic park brake.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I see you've changed stories now that the 2.3L Ecoboost has come into the conversation (that was obviously available to them)

umm, no. the 2.3EB was NOT available for the cars built in Thailand during PX2/3

any sales figures for those PX1 variants you quoted?

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by simon varley

and thats just the engine. add in mandatory AWD and rear discs, electric park brake and e-shifter that are also required for the V6. your $3k premium is now more like $5k at least.

oh, and if you want it in the single cab you'll need to engineer a new centre console as the standard one won't fit the e-shifter nor the electronic park brake.

We all know it will happen eventually in the dual cabs. Like in px to the end the engine line up and transmission changed. From memory px xls launched only in a manual.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

umm, no. the 2.3EB was NOT available for the cars built in Thailand during PX2/3

any sales figures for those PX1 variants you quoted?

Remember when there was this thing called a Falcon ute?

Quite convenient that all the 'cheap' 4x2 Thailand Specials are XR6 ute prices now that its gone.

[Hulsty]

Was always going to happen, local manufacturing kept everyone else honest price wise.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

No doubt the 2.3L Ecoboost engine would have fit in the PX Ranger Raptor so I'm not going to believe that 'they put the best engine they could' in it because funnily enough the USDM Ranger has a 2.3L Ecoboost engine.

I can dig up all the criticism from everyone on the release of the PX Ranger Raptor about it's lame engine and even where Ford Australia tried to tell everyone they were wrong for their criticism if you would like.

The counterpoint to your argument is that there's a reason why the new Raptor has the 3L Ecoboost engine instead of the 2L diesel turd that they released the previous generation with, maybe Ford Australia learned something from that fiasco.

The 2.3 wasn't available in the US until later in 2019, the Raptor was released here in 2018. So no, the 2.3 wasn't an option to be used here, cause the development was still being done.

And then you have to skip the part about it only being available in a LHD configuration. It wasn't until the new gen version that they have made it RHD compatible.

And the old Raptor significantly outsold it's projections, so it's odd you are using that as an example of some kind of failure. If anything, the success of it allowed them to be bolder for the new version, and with the 703 being made available with the ability to hold a Vee engine for the first time in a Ranger with the diesel V6 coming, it then allowed the petrol version to become a viable option with the chassis set up to fit a V6.

It also flies in the face of your suggestions in this thread of them "not listening to customers" when they took the feedback about buyers wanting more, and then them giving it to them. Despite what people think, the whole 703 program started with consulting a whole range of customers, from fleets, to owners clubs, to even the Toyota owners club (who were crest fallen later on when they showed them early photos of the 703, inside and out. They were shattered their Hilux's suddenly looked 20 years old, their faces looked like they had just told them their wives were ugly I heard lol). They did hundreds of hours of research with these people asking them what they wanted in their utes, and then built the Ranger around it. They know their customers better than anyone, but the fact is you cannot please 100% of people 100% of the time. It's just not possible.

[naddis01]

It looks like Ford are going the other way and introducing a Ranger Platinum with the MY23.5 update. Priced from just over $83k driveaway.

Comes with...
Machined faced 20-inch alloy wheels with ebony accents
Flexible Rack System
12.4-inch Customisable Digital Cluster
Premium heated and ventilated leather accented front seats




.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The 2.3 wasn't available in the US until later in 2019, the Raptor was released here in 2018. So no, the 2.3 wasn't an option to be used here, cause the development was still being done.

And then you have to skip the part about it only being available in a LHD configuration. It wasn't until the new gen version that they have made it RHD compatible.

And the old Raptor significantly outsold it's projections, so it's odd you are using that as an example of some kind of failure. If anything, the success of it allowed them to be bolder for the new version, and with the 703 being made available with the ability to hold a Vee engine for the first time in a Ranger with the diesel V6 coming, it then allowed the petrol version to become a viable option with the chassis set up to fit a V6.

It also flies in the face of your suggestions in this thread of them "not listening to customers" when they took the feedback about buyers wanting more, and then them giving it to them. Despite what people think, the whole 703 program started with consulting a whole range of customers, from fleets, to owners clubs, to even the Toyota owners club (who were crest fallen later on when they showed them early photos of the 703, inside and out. They were shattered their Hilux's suddenly looked 20 years old, their faces looked like they had just told them their wives were ugly I heard lol). They did hundreds of hours of research with these people asking them what they wanted in their utes, and then built the Ranger around it. They know their customers better than anyone, but the fact is you cannot please 100% of people 100% of the time. It's just not possible.

‘But, but, it’s a “Thailand Special” after all’

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by simon varley

umm, no. the 2.3EB was NOT available for the cars built in Thailand during PX2/3

any sales figures for those PX1 variants you quoted?

A little off topic, I remember two special 2.0 EB versions that were used as mules for the 2.0 EB Falcon
and the Ranger emissions modelling software used to prove both the 2.0 EB and I-6 easily complied to Euro 4….

Now I know that a mule is a long way from being a finished vehicle but I wonder how much more was needed…
T6 helped Ford Australia immensely during that time and I can only imagine what could have been……

During T6’s 10 year run, it elevated Ranger from a middle pack seller to the second top selling Ute
behind Hilux with arguably more 4x4 sales - nearly all of those sales being high series models
so there’s a lot to praise Ford for, the perception was a 100% diesel market but things are changing
thanks to Ranger Raptor, going where a V6 Hilux failed years ago…..

[DFB FGXR6]

Considering Ford have trouble delivering certain XLT, Sport and Wildtrack variants due to production shortages on higher end equipment, how is adding another range topper to the lineup going to improve sales? I also think it's going to end up just transferring potential customers from a Sport or Wildtrack rather than bringing new business.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Considering Ford have trouble delivering certain XLT, Sport and Wildtrack variants due to production shortages on higher end equipment, how is adding another range topper to the lineup going to improve sales? I also think it's going to end up just transferring potential customers from a Sport or Wildtrack rather than bringing new business.

But wasn’t that the fear that the original RR would just siphon sales from Wildtrak?

In other news, Ford can’t build enough of the current models,
therefore give up on increasing sales, just up the price $5,000 or $10,000 more

I kid…unless you want to suggest that to the chiefs, then I want a cut lol

Euro 7 is coming to Europe by 2025, you thought Euro 6 was hard,
try up to 70% emission reductions for commercial vehicles…….

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by naddis01

It looks like Ford are going the other way and introducing a Ranger Platinum with the MY23.5 update. Priced from just over $83k driveaway.

Comes with...
Machined faced 20-inch alloy wheels with ebony accents
Flexible Rack System
12.4-inch Customisable Digital Cluster
Premium heated and ventilated leather accented front seats




.

I just changed my Wildtrak order to add PP, so will now be 2023 build… salesman mentioned something was being announced soon that might take my fancy… Apart from the full size digital instruments I’ll stick to my wildtrak as I prefer the look, but this is even more clear proof they don’t give a toss about anything less than XLT spec…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jpd80]

Platinum is an excellent move, yanks wanted another higher trim so we get it as well.
Love those Americans, justifying all the extra goodies….

Anything that fleshes out Ranger sales is good news, things are getting better for Ford
covid lock downs in China are a continuing worry though….

[eb2fairmont]

yeah I kinda want one

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

yeah I kinda want one

Can we use that catch phrase…….too soon?

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Considering Ford have trouble delivering certain XLT, Sport and Wildtrack variants due to production shortages on higher end equipment, how is adding another range topper to the lineup going to improve sales? I also think it's going to end up just transferring potential customers from a Sport or Wildtrack rather than bringing new business.

image

image

Even if it doesn't increase sales, wouldn't Ford be happy you've just dropped another $10k with them for the Platinum rather than the Wildtrak?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Platinum is an excellent move, yanks wanted another higher trim so we get it as well.
Love those Americans, justifying all the extra goodies….

Anything that fleshes out Ranger sales is good news, things are getting better for Ford
covid lock downs in China are a continuing worry though….

Still some more fleshing out of the range to come.

The Platinum is Ford trying to fill that gap between Wildtrak and Raptor, which it does nicely. I prefer the look of the Wildtrak though.

The premium stuff is where the market is, forget the cheapies at the bottom end, Toyota can have that, and battle it out with the chinese rubbish.

[barra240t]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Considering Ford have trouble delivering certain XLT, Sport and Wildtrack variants due to production shortages on higher end equipment, how is adding another range topper to the lineup going to improve sales? I also think it's going to end up just transferring potential customers from a Sport or Wildtrack rather than bringing new business.

image

image

It was most likely already pre planned a long time ago and could not hit pause, I think Wildtrak has caught them off guard on how mental it is going and to be honest, if things are going as well as they are with Ranger they'd be mad not to release a model they know will sell. I am going to assume there is going to be a lot of Wildtrak to Platinum conversions like you have said, new orders will be waiting a bit. It may not improve sales but potentially could free up some Wildtrak to fill outstanding orders.

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by barra240t

It was most likely already pre planned a long time ago and could not hit pause, I think Wildtrak has caught them off guard on how mental it is going and to be honest, if things are going as well as they are with Ranger they'd be mad not to release a model they know will sell. I am going to assume there is going to be a lot of Wildtrak to Platinum conversions like you have said, new orders will be waiting a bit. It may not improve sales but potentially could free up some Wildtrak to fill outstanding orders.

Considering the popularity of the PX right up to the end, even with it being an old model, surely they should or seen it coming with the new one…..

As you say, I bet there will be quite a few wildtrak orders that will be converted to platinum…. And I hope it’s true, and I can get my wildtrak with pp earlier than mid 2023 lol… a bloke can dream


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The Platinum is Ford trying to fill that gap between Wildtrak and Raptor, which it does nicely. I prefer the look of the Wildtrak though.

kinda. the WT is and always has been the tech leader with all the bells and whistles, gadgets and leather etc. When the RR was introduced it was a performance version of an XLT that missed a whole host of DAT features. At least on PX3. Not sure if they substantially changed that on next-gen. for someone very close to these cars I've not yet even driven a next gen RR :(

Platinum gets extra bells and whistles over WT and some more specific trim. I think panorama roof too and some special seats? Is more of a rebadged LTD afaik

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by simon varley

kinda. the WT is and always has been the tech leader with all the bells and whistles, gadgets and leather etc. When the RR was introduced it was a performance version of an XLT that missed a whole host of DAT features. At least on PX3. Not sure if they substantially changed that on next-gen. for someone very close to these cars I've not yet even driven a next gen RR :(

Platinum gets extra bells and whistles over WT and some more specific trim. I think panorama roof too and some special seats? Is more of a rebadged LTD afaik

RR is similar spec to WT I reckon. Has the bigger digital dash, the big touch screen, surround cameras, LED headlights, B&O stereo etc.

Actually the WT doesn't even get the bigger digital dash, and stereo and headlights are optional in the premium pack for WT, but the Platinum has it all. There's a mix of spec between all 3. Definitely moved up and over XLT spec.

[Dr Smith]

I would have liked the Platinum Ranger to get rear coils from Everset/Raptor to provide a ride/handling closer to Everest but without the full on jumping capability of Raptor. And if you need max towing ability you stick with Wildtrak.