Australia - China - Poltics

[T3rminator]

My sister and her family live in Seattle. If you know Seattle, it is a very well off area, and is like a 2nd home to the Microsofts, Facebooks, Amazons. I was there last September, and generally speaking, everyone seemed to be happy and content. I didnt see any signs of poverty or homelessness.



Well they are now under curfew from 5:30pm to 5:30am. The protest and violence has spread to that side of the coast. Its unbelievable. They are burning the place down. There is a very real and deep anger across the entire country. This sort of resentment doesn't just come from "thugs". There is an underlying systemic issue.

[PhilT2]

[QUOTE=Bossxr8;6448031The white cop has been charged with murder so he will get what's coming to him. Was a completely unnecessary action. He was already cuffed.[/QUOTE]

The officer in the Philando Castile shooting was also charged with second degree manslaughter but found not guilty.

[FPV8U]

It’s a horrible situation that people from the entire American community have the right to be angry about, a senseless loss of life, the reaction to protest isn’t out of being reasonable, but the looting and destruction inflamed by Antifa and similar far left groups will do nothing but continue the divide well into the future.

One African American Federal officer shot and killed, several store owners have been assaulted defending their livelihood, a situation compounded by corona, many large chain stores being looted and burnt, primarily located from what I’ve read in African American neighbourhoods, which will just mean more unemployment and hardship in the near future.

Much like the peaceful lockdown protests, I support anyone’s right to be heard, but this is several steps too far IMHO.

[GasoLane]

Can we please stick to the thread topic, if you want to comment on anything else start another thread.

[T3rminator]

I'm curious what people think about the G7.

Germany initially rebuffed Trumps invite to meet face to face, over corona virus concerns, and also reports of disagreement on the topic of China among other things. Italy is pro China, which I find odd given how hard they were hit with the virus. France, hard to know where they stand, I think they are sitting on the fence whilst their scientists do more research on the virus. Canada, relations are soured, due to the Huawei saga. If the CFO is let off then it might just go back to business as usual. If not, then game over between Canada and China. Trudeau has been attacked by his own media for generally being supportive of China, much like our Vic Premier.


So, on the surface, disagreements over China has led to Trump calling the group "outdated". He wants to bring Russia, South Korea and India into the fold. These are all countries that border with China. Interesting. We know China and India don't get along. They have ongoing border disputes. Then you have Australia thrown in, cos we've been good mates.


Russia recently rejected US's call for a UN meeting on China's handling of HK. They said it was China's internal matter. China and Russia also rejected US call for a "closed door" UN meeting on Syria, saying it lacks transparency. Hmmmmmmm


On the topic of Antifa. China, and even HK residents, have suggested that the violent protests are funded and organised by NGOs, Antifa and even the CIA. If US designate Antifa as a terrorist organisation, and China believe they are leading the protests in HK, would they have the right to take anti terrorism actions against the group? hmmmmmm Its hard to be optimistic.

[MITCHAY]

Australia was invited as non member state by Macron last time so it is not unprecedented. So was India. There has been the idea floated around of us becoming an member state in the last few years or so. Not sure that will happen or not.

But no doubt this will be focused on rallying countries to deal with China.

Australia and India definitely have beef with China. Not sure South Korea has had anything fairly substantial recently.

I do know China had issues over the THAAD deployment. So SK being a regional ally of the US, no surprise why they are invited.

If it weren't Trump then I'd be surprised about Russia since they were suspended due to the annexation of Crimea.

I'd imagine that Putin would like to keep China as a buffer so this would be interesting.

[ford71V8]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Wow dude. When the channel 9 reporter said to one of the protestors who was interviewed "the people of Australia don't understand the history of police killings and things here" she got absolutely smashed. It seems it might actually be true after all.....



https://twitter.com/nakkiahlui/statu...091401216?s=20

I was watching when this interview took place and I thought she was so out of her depth, clearly talking the lines without engaging the brain. Or shes an idiot, was embarrassing, dont go talking for us when you dont have a clue.

[T3rminator]

OK ok. I know CGTN is chinese based, so it may be chinese propaganda. But i thought this presented an interesting point from the other side. It does have a British white guy (prosecutor) speaking, so might give it some legitimacy. Skip over if you think it's propaganda.

I gotta say, the ccp police / army seem to be incredibly patient. It's been 5 months of protests . The army is already in the US after 6 days. Some of the protestors actions look awfully similar. If it blows its going to blow big! Most of the asians speaking here are Honkies, they are speaking cantonese.

https://youtu.be/Zi1Gj3_cJSI

[ad2013]

My view is where Australia is going wrong with China and US politics is in our failure to move towards being an armed neutral nation. IMO taking the side of the US since they saved our bacon in WW2 doesn't seem to have worked in our favour (we keep going into US conflicts we shouldn't be in and now end up out of favour with China, all in the hope the US will save us if we are ever invaded(?)) And China appears no better, throwing their weight around internationally (for what reason I'm not sure, but global dominance appears the objective(?)).
This may be a simplistic view on my behalf, but IMO the coronavirus pandemic has provided Australia with an opportunity to reset our global political stance/priorities. The sudden higher unemployment and government now inclined to throw some money towards rebuilding our economy, could be an opportunity to build our defense capabilities and independence(?). And in doing so show some political guts in making it clear to other nations that we are transitioning towards becoming a more self-sufficient neutral nation.

[Peter B - CV8]

^^^ Good post & I generally agree with the sentiment you have expressed, however, Australia is a large island with a huge coastline & minimal population. We simply don't have the capacity to defend ourselves.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

^^^ Good post & I generally agree with the sentiment you have expressed, however, Australia is a large island with a huge coastline & minimal population. We simply don't have the capacity to defend ourselves.

The likelihood of Australia being invaded these days is next to zero unless we want to start throwing missiles around...likelihood of that is also zero.

I think we need a decent Navy and Airforce and stop worrying about everyone elses fights.

I would like to believe the international community wouldn't sit if there was a serious invasion on any one of the major nations soil.

Coming to get us would be a massive undertaking and its not like they are going to randomly come under the cover of night.

[cheap]

Watch the video in its entirety - China from someone who has lived in China for years speaks the language, trained their medics

We have first-hand indisputable evidence of bags full of CCP money being given to some of our corrupt Australian politicians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj_pcpN9iL4

A colleague is now receiving angry emails from a Chinese supplier demanding that he purchase Chinese made Irrigation Pumps. I suggested he reply with ... 去他妈的你自己

[T3rminator]

Good to have someone with first hand experience. Its hard to know who or what to believe in the media, its very polarising, you are either one side or the other, there is no middle ground.

Are these threats from gov agencies or private companies?


During the height of the pandemic, when "China" was sending the PPEs to Europe, some of them turned out faulty. It was reported that the gov was sending out fake goods. Dig a bit more, it turns out some countries were doing deals with unregistered chinese companies who were sending out counterfeit goods. I'm hearing the owners of these companies are now being belted around a bit.


You need to dig into history to understand why they behave the way they do. "Sick man of asia" look it up. They vowed never to let the west dominate and abuse them again. Unfortunately, that mentality can be overplayed as we are seeing now.



IMHO Australia doesn't need to invest billions and billions in military. Post WWII, no country (other than US?) has gone and invaded a land that is not "in dispute" I don't think? Remove the US war conflicts, the world is actually a more peaceful place. I dunno, maybe need a fact check. Why would China, or Russia or Africa or Middle East countries want to invade Australia? I can only think of ONE reason. I can see the US increasing their military presence here. It doesn't look like NZ will let them after sending their nuclear subs home. The US military here is not to protect Australia, it is so they have a launching point in Asia Pacific. That I think puts us in danger if war was to break out. We are seeing this played out with the man made islands in the South China sea. Have a look at a map where the US have staging points in the Asian region. They pretty much have southern China surrounded with military bases. This has encouraged China to build fake islands as a "defence". Its pretty scary when you think about it.

[cheap]

"Are these threats from gov agencies or private companies?"

No matter what smoke screen, mirror tricks or outright lies being told, there are no private companies in China, everything is ruled and controlled by the CCP.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by cheap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj_pcpN9iL4

A colleague is now receiving angry emails from a Chinese supplier demanding that he purchase Chinese made Irrigation Pumps. I suggested he reply with ... 去他妈的你自己

I just watched it. Some of the things he claims is false. It was this current government that abolished the one child policy. Xi took office in March 2013. One child policy was turned into two child in 2015. Law was passed in 2016. Even now, you can have more than 2 child, but I think you have to pay additional taxes. I'm not convinced on death buses, maybe 30 years ago, but not now.
Starving their people 20 years ago? Maybe 20 years ago, but the current regime is pulling their people out of poverty. They aren't doing this to impress the west. In the last 20-30 years they have pulled 300 million out of poverty, and haven't really boasted about it.
Again, I'm not defending them, there a lot of wrongs, but facts are facts.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Good to have someone with first hand experience. Its hard to know who or what to believe in the media, its very polarising, you are either one side or the other, there is no middle ground.

Are these threats from gov agencies or private companies?


During the height of the pandemic, when "China" was sending the PPEs to Europe, some of them turned out faulty. It was reported that the gov was sending out fake goods. Dig a bit more, it turns out some countries were doing deals with unregistered chinese companies who were sending out counterfeit goods. I'm hearing the owners of these companies are now being belted around a bit.


You need to dig into history to understand why they behave the way they do. "Sick man of asia" look it up. They vowed never to let the west dominate and abuse them again. Unfortunately, that mentality can be overplayed as we are seeing now.



IMHO Australia doesn't need to invest billions and billions in military. Post WWII, no country (other than US?) has gone and invaded a land that is not "in dispute" I don't think? Remove the US war conflicts, the world is actually a more peaceful place. I dunno, maybe need a fact check. Why would China, or Russia or Africa or Middle East countries want to invade Australia? I can only think of ONE reason. I can see the US increasing their military presence here. It doesn't look like NZ will let them after sending their nuclear subs home. The US military here is not to protect Australia, it is so they have a launching point in Asia Pacific. That I think puts us in danger if war was to break out. We are seeing this played out with the man made islands in the South China sea. Have a look at a map where the US have staging points in the Asian region. They pretty much have southern China surrounded with military bases. This has encouraged China to build fake islands as a "defence". Its pretty scary when you think about it.

Yes you do, with the greatest respect your analysis is very simplistic and factually incorrect.

In historic terms the USA has been the most benign world power.

Compare living now to life under the; Romans, Mongols, Vikings, Mughals, Nazis, Japanese, Soviets or the British Empire.

There is no doubt the USA is in decline and China is on the rise and will be the next world super power.

The changing of world power will not happen militarily you would hope. China will simply become the largest economic/military power.

What life for Australians will be like under Chinese dominance will not be as free and easy as it has been under the USA.

IMHO

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

I just watched it. Some of the things he claims is false. It was this current government that abolished the one child policy. Xi took office in March 2013. One child policy was turned into two child in 2015. Law was passed in 2016. Even now, you can have more than 2 child, but I think you have to pay additional taxes. I'm not convinced on death buses, maybe 30 years ago, but not now.
Starving their people 20 years ago? Maybe 20 years ago, but the current regime is pulling their people out of poverty. They aren't doing this to impress the west. In the last 20-30 years they have pulled 300 million out of poverty, and haven't really boasted about it.
Again, I'm not defending them, there a lot of wrongs, but facts are facts.

All you have done is defend them. You keeping posting post after post saying China is not so bad. Tell that to the thousands of Chinese who disappear every year for saying things that criticize the CCP.

Just be glad you live in a country where you have the freedom to say what you want about your government officials.

[T3rminator]

I hear ya. China bad, scum of the earth, they want to kill everyone. They want to rule a world where everyone is already dead. Yet we still do business with them........

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

I hear ya. China bad, scum of the earth, they want to kill everyone. They want to rule a world where everyone is already dead. Yet we still do business with them........

Money talks and bull**** walks.

If we had the choice of getting any other country to take our products/minerals we would do it in a heartbeat.

[T3rminator]

But I find that really hard to swallow. We are willing to sell our values, beliefs and morals. What you are saying is that our country has been sold out.
Is there ANY thing positive we can hang our hat on? Any?
Over 125 counties have signed BRI. They must all be wrong, or corrupt, or tricked.
Anyhow, at the risk of being accused a spy or a traitor... No more counter arguments from me. Over and out.

[zipping]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Ask ScoMo where he borrowed the $130billion from

I like how Trev overlooks Chairman Dan signing up to the Belt and Road initiative. Putting aside the hypocrisy the answer to the question is over time the government sells T-bonds, T-notes and other securities to the market, prints more money and can raise taxes to fund its spending. Australian bonds are well received, and that is because of the relative strength and the relative positive impression that markets have in relation to Australia

In the first round mid April the big banks bought up over 50% of the bonds offered. A further breakdown shows investment managers 25 per cent, hedge funds more than 17 per cent and central banks from other countries including China 5 per cent. The bonds pay a yield of 0.47 per cent, at the upper end of the marketed range.

[b0son]

What I find amusing.... that despite al of China's anti-USA rhetoric, try and buy something from them, and it's in USD....

[98TLS]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

If we had the choice of getting any other country to take our products/minerals we would do it in a heartbeat.

A... you dont and B ive always had a chuckle when you express your opinion like its ours.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by b0son

What I find amusing.... that despite al of China's anti-USA rhetoric, try and buy something from them, and it's in USD....

Remember when Saddam Hussein decided to sell oil in Euros?

[T3rminator]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...-idUSKBN1XN1JY

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ming-a-reality

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by 98TLS

A... you dont and B ive always had a chuckle when you express your opinion like its ours.

You truly believe our government would bother dealing with China if we had the choice of moving our exports somewhere else?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

And as a business owner in a free market how would that make you feel? Knowing you could be dropping a large % in the sake of the "national" interest?

What if the buyers are not lining up?

You cant, for the most part, say you can not sell assets to particular people. If the are Gov/Commonwealth owned then that is different, but not private.

Foreign Investment Review Board to be given greater approval powers amid increasing national security risk

Changes to Australia's foreign investment rules should not inflame tensions with China, Prime Minister Scott Morrison has said while unveiling a sweeping overhaul aimed at protecting Australia's national security.

Key points:

Approvals will now be needed for all foreign investments in "sensitive" sectors

The Treasurer will be able to force a foreign company to sell its stake if a national security risk arises

The Government says the changes are not directed at any particular country

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-...esses/12324276

Well look at that! Who'd have thought they should investigate further

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

You truly believe our government would bother dealing with China if we had the choice of moving our exports somewhere else?

There's other markets just not one on our doorstep that's thirsty for everything. There's 7 billion mouths to feed on this planet.

Requires effort to diversify.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-...esses/12324276

Well look at that! Who'd have thought they should investigate further

This is going to impact our allies more than China if you look at DFAT stats. Unless of course the rule only applies to China....which they could very well make it to be, no one will really know.
Its not retrospective, so this Darwin Port saga will remain.
I'm not sure about the power to force owners to sell. I think that is going to hurt us. Investors will see Australia as having massive sovereignty risk. Would Indonesia, India, Singapore want to invest, knowing that our Gov can change their minds tomorrow and force them to sell? With this bill, a change of government or treasurer could force you to sell. Sounds a bit like investing in African mines.

[MITCHAY]

Australia and India have signed the "mutual logistic support agreement". As far I know in practical terms it means mutual access to each others bases.

China won't be happy about that at all but they can get ****ed. We're all sick of their BS. Upgrade the Indian military with the latest US metal and they would **** themselves