Support your paramedics - Page 3

geckoGT · 06-11-2014, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

High $40's, mid-2000s. Scientific research.

What is the annual paramedic salary?

So you worked a 80hr/week job for high $40k? Or was that 80 hrs per f/n?

b0son · 06-11-2014, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

So you worked a 80hr/week job for high $40k?

This.

The competitive grants system being what it is, you work stupid amounts to try and get your funding renewed so you still have a job. Suffice to say, I don't do that any more.

tapeworm · 06-11-2014, 06:51 PM

just from perception it seems that paramedics are just feeding off the fact they can't get fired lol and the 'hero' image they enjoy in order to get a pay rise, teachers do this too. Just saying. My neighbor is one and definitely not struggling, HUGE amount of time off per year too. I see this, then see them cruising around in the Merc vans they have defaced with quotes about how hard they are doing it and can't help but not feel sorry for them like everyone else seems too . Zips on flamesuit, it's just my perception as an outsider

usernametaken · 06-11-2014, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapeworm

just from perception it seems that paramedics are just feeding off the fact they can't get fired lol and the 'hero' image they enjoy in order to get a pay rise, teachers do this too. Just saying. My neighbor is one and definitely not struggling, HUGE amount of time off per year too. I see this, then see them cruising around in the Merc vans they have defaced with quotes about how hard they are doing it and can't help but not feel sorry for them like everyone else seems too . Zips on flamesuit, it's just my perception as an outsider

You sir, have lived too long in your ivory tower. I'm pretty sure no one here would mind me calling you out as a full blown toss pot.

Itsme · 06-11-2014, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usernametaken

You sir, have lived too long in your ivory tower. I'm pretty sure no one here would mind me calling you out as a full blown toss pot.

Just because some one does not agree with your views give you the right to denigrate them, every one is entitled to their opinion.

usernametaken · 06-11-2014, 08:43 PM

His opinion, (being self admitted, un-educated as an 'outsider') simply perpetuates ignorance.

I am just pointing it out to save him from further embarrassment..

**GasoLane** · 06-11-2014, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usernametaken

His opinion, (being self admitted, un-educated as an 'outsider') simply perpetuates ignorance.

I am just pointing it out to save him from further embarrassment..

And before you do it again I suggest that you read the site T&C's

Franco Cozzo · 06-11-2014, 09:47 PM

$50K/year is what experienced administration assistants get and they have an air conditioned office, a comfy seat, a Diploma in Business Management and work 8 hour days.

Not 3 years at university and people bleeding out in the back of their run down Mercedes Sprinter which most of the time doesn't work properly pulling 12 hour plus shifts.

Wretched · 06-11-2014, 10:06 PM

I have seen a lot of the vandalised vans around for the past year.
Whilst I understand the paramedics are negotiating their conditions the writing on the vans isn't a good look. There are probably better ways to do it.

In saying that, I'm curious to understand what it is the paramedics want. Some vans have the need pay rises written all over them and others have a reduction in waiting times as their priority. I can't see how the two a related so, is it more paramedics they want or pay rises? The unfortunate thing here is you can't have both, the money isn't infinite and has to come out of somewhere.
Will having a large salary make the job better? I would think better conditions are the priority.

Dalonian · 06-11-2014, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

I have seen a lot of the vandalised vans around for the past year.
Whilst I understand the paramedics are negotiating their conditions the writing on the vans isn't a good look. There are probably better ways to do it.

In saying that, I'm curious to understand what it is the paramedics want. Some vans have the need pay rises written all over them and others have a reduction in waiting times as their priority. I can't see how the two a related so, is it more paramedics they want or pay rises? The unfortunate thing here is you can't have both, the money isn't infinite and has to come out of somewhere.
Will having a large salary make the job better? I would think better conditions are the priority.

Can you suggest a better way to campaign for better (or more accurately equal pay with the rest of Australia)? We can't strike like other jobs. We aren't just stretcher bearers anymore, and our skill set is ever increasing. I won't comment anymore as I've said everything I think I can however I will ask those in their Ivory towers to spend 14 hours at work tomorrow and the next day and see how you go, and then imagine doing it over night and again the next week and the next....

Wretched · 06-11-2014, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalonian

Can you suggest a better way to campaign for better (or more accurately equal pay with the rest of Australia)? We can't strike like other jobs. We aren't just stretcher bearers anymore, and our skill set is ever increasing. I won't comment anymore as I've said everything I think I can however I will ask those in their Ivory towers to spend 14 hours at work tomorrow and the next day and see how you go, and then imagine doing it over night and again the next week and the next....

Enough with the ivory towers comment ok. You want people to respect your hours and working conditions how about the same for the rest of us? You're not the only one working long hours and on weekends for nothing. Don't assume the rest of us have it easy.

I don't know the ins and outs of the emergency services and what representatives you have but I would imagine that there would be some collective representing the paramedics? That would be one way.
To gather public support, trust me the writing on the vans isn't the way to go, it's tacky and draws more negatives than positives.
It would be better to engage with the communities to gather that support, clearly outline what it is you want from the government and have the community hound the politicians as well. You don't need to poo poo people to do that, the community love emergency workers and respect the work they do, use them to aid your cause.

Worst case, start up your own political party, everyone else is.

Franco Cozzo · 06-11-2014, 11:13 PM

They are getting out in the community, they are also doing it in their time off, they've been all over Melbourne and the regional areas like Ballarat etc at train stations or talking to people in the streets, they were doing it in Essendon not too long ago as well.

Same thing with the Firefighters, they're going through some issues with the Government at the moment.

Itsme · 06-11-2014, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalonian

Can you suggest a better way to campaign for better (or more accurately equal pay with the rest of Australia)? We can't strike like other jobs. We aren't just stretcher bearers anymore, and our skill set is ever increasing. I won't comment anymore as I've said everything I think I can however I will ask those in their Ivory towers to spend 14 hours at work tomorrow and the next day and see how you go, and then imagine doing it over night and again the next week and the next....

You are patronising in your comments at times, do you think your organisation is the only one working extra hours over a shift days in & out.
There are many people in other jobs who have it hard at times so don't start whinging you are the only lot copping it in the rear end.

Dalonian · 07-11-2014, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trublu

You are patronising in your comments at times, do you think your organisation is the only one working extra hours over a shift days in & out.
There are many people in other jobs who have it hard at times so don't start whinging you are the only lot copping it in the rear end.

I never said we were the only ones doing long hours. The OP was regarding a documentary on paramedics and their mental health, I am merely commenting on factors that contribute to this issue.

LTDHO · 07-11-2014, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Then you clearly do not read my posts as I said what the hourly rate was, less than an enrolled nurse in a nice safe air conditioned hospital. We get extra leave as we work a 24 hour rotating roster with only a 1/3 of the weekends and work a large percentage of public holidays.

The point that annoys me so much is that so many think we are lucky that we get so many holidays yet we have no social life, a very family unfriendly roster and deal with stresses that most people say "I could never do your job".

Sorry mate I did miss this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

we do it all for about $70-80k a year at the highest increment.

Out of interest, would you consider working in a hospital for less pay?

**FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0** · 07-11-2014, 09:58 AM

I've read this thread with a lot of interest.

For starters, I have a lot of respect for our emergency services and armed forces personnel. I think most people would not understand what they go through. I have friends that are police officers, paramedics, doctors, nurses and defence force personnel and most of them are extremely professional and dedicated to their jobs.

Having said that, I can also understand the view that you guys and gals are not the only people out there that do it tough. And whilst you folk provide an important service, you are not alone in that matter either. One that comes to mind immediately is a doctoral intern. The hours that those folk do is absolutely mind-boggling and the pay rate is not that flash either.

But, what I would like to understand from you guys (especially Gecko and Dalonian) is why the idea of "if you don't like it, why don't you leave" is so offensive to you? At the end of the day, if all that experience at work was bad, and it actually has such a negative impact on your non-work life, then surely you, as anyone else in any other job would, must weigh up the pros and cons to staying versus leaving? So, in all seriousness, what is it about the job that makes you want to stay with all of the negatives that you have discussed here?

In any negotiation, you need to know your opponent's motivations. If what motivates you guys to stay is unchanged or unchallenged, then the government will always have the upper hand in this dispute, because they feel that the risk is low in terms of potential impact of not negotiating any further with you.

I'm asking this question, not to aggravate, but rather to try and understand what drives you guys.

Craig H

Dalonian · 07-11-2014, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

I've read this thread with a lot of interest.

For starters, I have a lot of respect for our emergency services and armed forces personnel. I think most people would not understand what they go through. I have friends that are police officers, paramedics, doctors, nurses and defence force personnel and most of them are extremely professional and dedicated to their jobs.

Having said that, I can also understand the view that you guys and gals are not the only people out there that do it tough. And whilst you folk provide an important service, you are not alone in that matter either. One that comes to mind immediately is a doctoral intern. The hours that those folk do is absolutely mind-boggling and the pay rate is not that flash either.

But, what I would like to understand from you guys (especially Gecko and Dalonian) is why the idea of "if you don't like it, why don't you leave" is so offensive to you? At the end of the day, if all that experience at work was bad, and it actually has such a negative impact on your non-work life, then surely you, as anyone else in any other job would, must weigh up the pros and cons to staying versus leaving? So, in all seriousness, what is it about the job that makes you want to stay with all of the negatives that you have discussed here?

In any negotiation, you need to know your opponent's motivations. If what motivates you guys to stay is unchanged or unchallenged, then the government will always have the upper hand in this dispute, because they feel that the risk is low in terms of potential impact of not negotiating any further with you.

I'm asking this question, not to aggravate, but rather to try and understand what drives you guys.

Craig H

I can only answer obviously from my perspective, but for me it's offensive because if I leave it doesn't fix the underlying issue and I leave my friends/colleagues in the same mess. Secondly, if I get sick and need an ambulance myself I know how fatigued/stressed the paramedics who attend could potentially be.

I love the job because I love helping people, I've restarted people's hearts and delivered babies and they are the best experiences of my life and nothing can take that emotional high away from me. It still brings a smile to my face. That's the reason I stay.

The government will always have the upper hand because we don't generate any revenue (e.g police can stop processing speeding fines etc), we can't strike and even if we try any other type of industrial action (e.g don't write paperwork/work slower) they play the "putting patients in jeopardy" card.

Also, I've put a lot of emotional/financial investment into this job. I've spent 3 years at uni, I've done a graduate year (most stressful of my life) and accumulated a large HECS-HELP debt in the process. And like anyone else changing careers isn't a walk in the park.

I guess at the end of the day if I take the selfish(?) option and walk out I'm worried about what I will leave behind.

Personally all I want is pay parity with other states and an acknowledgment from the government and General public that our conditions are crap and need to be addressed. And 90% of the general public are fantastic but just aren't aware of our conditions and exactly what we do.

/rant over ;)

Itsme · 07-11-2014, 12:35 PM

I think you will find majority of the public is fully aware of what obstacles you Paramedics face each day, people do support you but unfortunately you are not the only ones in this predicament, there are others doing it hard.

Personally I think you guys are going about it the wrong way, nice to have pay rises but I think improving working conditions would be the utmost priority for all concern, your pay rise is not going to fix your own health issues regarding stress, conditions & attendance times.

Dalonian · 07-11-2014, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trublu

I think you will find majority of the public is fully aware of what obstacles you Paramedics face each day, people do support you but unfortunately you are not the only ones in this predicament, there are others doing it hard.

Personally I think you guys are going about it the wrong way, nice to have pay rises but I think improving working conditions would be the utmost priority for all concern, your pay rise is not going to fix your own health issues regarding stress, conditions & attendance times.

Ok, how should it be done then? The government won't spend money on pay rises and won't to put on more resources so there will be shorter shifts etc. at least if we get a pay rise there's something to hang your hat on. We are saying the system is flawed because it is in regards to response times, wages, conditions. We are normally gagged from saying this. If public attention is brought to it maybe the government will have enough pressure on them to change it finally .

And again, Victorian paramedics don't want a pay rise, we want equality with other states as we are up to $30k worse off

TheSneakiness · 07-11-2014, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

we do it all for about $70-80k a year at the highest increment

I would kill for a $30,000 p/a salary increase, so much pressure lifted off my shoulders.

Itsme · 07-11-2014, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalonian

Ok, how should it be done then? The government won't spend money on pay rises and won't to put on more resources so there will be shorter shifts etc. at least if we get a pay rise there's something to hang your hat on. We are saying the system is flawed because it is in regards to response times, wages, conditions. We are normally gagged from saying this. If public attention is brought to it maybe the government will have enough pressure on them to change it finally .

And again, Victorian paramedics don't want a pay rise, we want equality with other states as we are up to $30k worse off

Different states, different awards, different living standards, different budgets, hell not even blue collar workers in militant unions can achieve parity like what you want..... dream on.

**GasoLane** · 07-11-2014, 01:56 PM

You (Victorians) have an election coming up soon I believe, wouldn't surprise me if someone suggested privatising the industry.

Franco Cozzo · 07-11-2014, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasOLane

You (Victorians) have an election coming up soon I believe, wouldn't surprise me if someone suggested privatising the industry.

Patient Transport has been, all non emergency stuff is covered by companies like G4S/MTS, Willsons, PSV, NPT etc.

geckoGT · 08-11-2014, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Sorry mate I did miss this:

Out of interest, would you consider working in a hospital for less pay?

That is the point mate, in QLD I could work in a an air-conditioned hospital in the dry with guaranteed meal breaks, with security guards for protection as an EN who never makes a diagnosis, never administers dangerous medication, never has to train a jnr for the same hourly rate (although they do get less leave). Working as a basic RN with still less responsibility would be a massive pay rise.

A common problem is our pay and conditions may seem ok but when you factor in the level of responsibility, education and stress that a modern paramedic endures it is not reasonable.

geckoGT · 08-11-2014, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

I've read this thread with a lot of interest.

For starters, I have a lot of respect for our emergency services and armed forces personnel. I think most people would not understand what they go through. I have friends that are police officers, paramedics, doctors, nurses and defence force personnel and most of them are extremely professional and dedicated to their jobs.

Having said that, I can also understand the view that you guys and gals are not the only people out there that do it tough. And whilst you folk provide an important service, you are not alone in that matter either. One that comes to mind immediately is a doctoral intern. The hours that those folk do is absolutely mind-boggling and the pay rate is not that flash either.

But, what I would like to understand from you guys (especially Gecko and Dalonian) is why the idea of "if you don't like it, why don't you leave" is so offensive to you? At the end of the day, if all that experience at work was bad, and it actually has such a negative impact on your non-work life, then surely you, as anyone else in any other job would, must weigh up the pros and cons to staying versus leaving? So, in all seriousness, what is it about the job that makes you want to stay with all of the negatives that you have discussed here?

In any negotiation, you need to know your opponent's motivations. If what motivates you guys to stay is unchanged or unchallenged, then the government will always have the upper hand in this dispute, because they feel that the risk is low in terms of potential impact of not negotiating any further with you.

I'm asking this question, not to aggravate, but rather to try and understand what drives you guys.

Craig H

A medical intern suffers, that is without doubt. The difference is a paramedic on a serious case has more responsibility on them than any medical intern, for less money. The medical intern is a stepping stone that they must go through as part of their professional pathway, their reward is in the future, the paramedic has this situation daily for the remainder of their career, it is not a pathway to future reward so not a comparison that reflects the situation.

prydey · 08-11-2014, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

A common problem is our pay and conditions may seem ok but when you factor in the level of responsibility, education and stress that a modern paramedic endures it is not reasonable.

i agree and couldn't believe it when i first heard.

i've noticed a couple of comments on here that seem to have only picked up on the 'long hours, low pay' sentiment and basically said 'suck it up'. yes, for sure, there are many other jobs that require long hours for little reward etc, but are these jobs dealing with human life??

you also know something isn't right with the system when employees are threatened with losing their job if they speak out in more mainstream media about the conditions. that can't be good for morale.

geckoGT · 08-11-2014, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

But, what I would like to understand from you guys (especially Gecko and Dalonian) is why the idea of "if you don't like it, why don't you leave" is so offensive to you? At the end of the day, if all that experience at work was bad, and it actually has such a negative impact on your non-work life, then surely you, as anyone else in any other job would, must weigh up the pros and cons to staying versus leaving? So, in all seriousness, what is it about the job that makes you want to stay with all of the negatives that you have discussed here?

This is one of our concerns for the welfare of the community. We could go off and do something else, throw away all that study and commitment which for many was a massive amount of work. My getting into the business was a pathway of professional development that took 20 years, not just sign up for a course. We would get better pay, better conditions, better health, better family life etc somewhere else.

The public would end up getting less experienced, lower trained and lower quality pre hospital care. When your wife has a whole in her chest and can't breathe, do you want some kid that has read about it in a book and practiced on a plastic manikin or do you want an experienced paramedic that has dealt with the same situation before? If we all give up and do something else, you get the kid and that is exactly what is happening.