Ben Roberts-Smith, Judge says he is a murderer

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

trvrtrd is on the cheap cask red


again

Dont drink ****-stick

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

When history shows that the opposing forces, be it the Taliban, Vietcong, or whoever are willing to go to extremes to ensure the co-operation of the civilian population, sometimes, yes, you need to be the bigger bastard.

Or do you really believe they wont hide in amongst the civilian population waiting for an opportune time to strike?

Its unpalatable to many in the western world to tell the locals "Yes, we know they've threatened you with XXXXX if you dont help them, but if you do, we WILL do much, MUCH worse", but promising to build schools and hospitals isnt much comfort to the locals when they know the taliban wont leave anyone alive in their village to see those promises come to life.

The issue is the Taliban, Vietcong etc aren’t held to the same standards we are.

Think of the famous Vietnam War era photo. We all saw it here in the West, of a supposedly “innocent” North Vietnamese man Nguyen Van Len with a gun pulled to his head. Left wing media ran with it. Front page of the New York Times. We weren’t told that man had just executed 34. Slit the throat of an innocent 80 year old. And yet, Pulitzer Prize winning journalists still pushed the false narrative of a poor oppressed Vietcong threatened by the evil colonial West.

Any excuse to hate on the West, they will take. Communism/leftism is a seriously messed up ideology that takes serious mental gymnastics to defend, and that’s why leftists lie so much.

[FairmontGS]

Australian government considers compensation for Afghanistan war crime victims

The Australian government is looking for “a way forward” to compensate families of victims of alleged war crimes in Afghanistan, the defence minister has told legal advocates.

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...an-war-victims

[pottery beige]

https://www.judgments.fedcourt.gov.a...HVuN45EpKjT2eU

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Maybe he and others lied, BUT he hasn't been charged with a criminal offence nor has been found guilty of any offence

I seriously don't know why people are struggling with this

I do not see anywhere in this topic any forum member stating BRS is guilty of a criminal offense, the discussion is just revolving around his loss with his defamation case against the media and any future implications that he may face.

Cheers

[Trevor 57]

There is plenty of inference that he is guilty, take your blinkers off and read some of the posts again

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

[B]Roberts-Smith, witnesses not ‘honest and reliable’

And the media have such a stellar reputation for telling the honest, unbiased, unedited truth.....

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

And the media have such a stellar reputation for telling the honest, unbiased, unedited truth.....

Particularly the outlet that our tax dollars pay for. Always seem to be pushing an agenda.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

Think of the famous Vietnam War era photo. We all saw it here in the West, of a supposedly “innocent” North Vietnamese man Nguyen Van Len with a gun pulled to his head. Left wing media ran with it. Front page of the New York Times. We weren’t told that man had just executed 34. Slit the throat of an innocent 80 year old. And yet, Pulitzer Prize winning journalists still pushed the false narrative of a poor oppressed Vietcong threatened by the evil colonial West.

They also skipped that VietCong Captain Van Len was also not in any official uniform but dressed as a civilian, an act known in that setting as Perfidy, a war crime due to it endangering civilians.

To be noted, was that when US authorities sought to deport the executioner, accusing him of being a war criminal, the US preident at the time intervened stating that "such historical revisionism was folly".

What a shame todays generation wont ever understand that concept.

Perfidy is something incredibly pertinent to Roberts-Smiths defence, as Taliban fighters are not known for wearing whatever is regarded as their official uniform, and regularly wearing civilian clothing so they blend in with the local civilians.

This makes it incredibly easy for the media and the bleating hearts to claim the victims of potentially unlawful shootings were civilians, whilst making it incredibly difficult for our troops to judge who is or isnt a lawful combatant until its too late and the bullets are directly inbound.

I find it disgusting that our troops are being held accountable for actions in a battle zone, years later, by lawyers & journalists acting from the safety and comfort of their offices, on information of questionable integrity & accuracy.

Something I have noted is that an Afghani born lawyer in Australia is calling for Roberts-Smith to be stripped of his awards..... Maybe she would be more helpful fighting war crimes in her native Afghanistan?

[Cav]

The following was written by Hugh Poate.
If you don't know who he is, see a link at the end.

Ben Roberts-Smith put his life on the line for this country and was awarded the Medal of Gallantry and the Victoria Cross for exceptional bravery. The citations for each of these bravery awards are on display at the AWM for all Australians to read, uninfluenced by negative media reports.

There are two particular journalists presently presenting themselves as journalist demigods for supposedly exposing the most highly decorated Australian soldier of the Afghanistan war for alleged war crimes, although he has neither been charged nor convicted of any war crimes. The media reports by these journalists that initiated the defamation case brought by BRS appear to have an obvious desire to bring down a tall poppy to elevate their own careers in journalism.

However, the reports by these journalists and their so-called mastheads have omitted the following ‘facts’ that would provide proper balance and context.
The three media outlets involved in this case have mentioned that BRS and other SASR soldiers were at Dawan following the "killing" of three Australian soldiers. They have deliberately failed to mention that a rogue Afghan National Army soldier known as Hekmatullah "murdered" the three Australian soldiers, one of whom was our son, Private Robert Poate. "This is a war crime". Some of the alleged breaches in the rules of armed conflict by BRS and other SASR soldiers occurred at Darwan and other places during the hunt for Hekmatullah.

It should also be noted that Hekmatullah was subsequently captured and tried in the Afghan Supreme court on four offences – the murder of three Australian soldiers, the wounding of two, Treason and membership of a terrorist organisation (the Taliban). He proudly confessed to all charges and was sentenced to death by the Supreme Court. Hekmatullah has been convicted in a court of law for war crimes. Despite frequent requests by the three families to Australian Ministers for Defence and Ministers for Foreign Affairs to apply diplomatic pressure for Hekmatullah’s sentence to be carried out, they refused.
During the peace negotiation process between the Americans and the Taliban, during which neither Australia nor any other of the 50 ISAF countries were invited to participate, the Americans agreed on behalf of the rest of the world (in typical American style) to release all Taliban prisoners, including Hekmatullah. Again, the three families wrote to the Ministers for Defence and DFAT whose late response was to ask that Hekmatullah remain in custody. Hekmatullah’s sentence was not a custodial sentence, he had been sentenced to death.

Hekmatullah is still a free man today being treated as a hero by the Taliban for killing infidels – Australian soldiers who put their lives on the line for the country and lost their lives from a most heinous war crime. Hekmatullah has told Australian journalist Jeremy Kelly that he would do the same again. When the Americans killed Zawahiri last year in a drone strike for his part in planning the Twin Towers attacks by Al Qaeda, it was known that Hekmatullah lived only 50 metres away from Zawahiri. But the Americans did not strike Hekmatullah – he had not killed any Americans! None of this information has been reported to provide context and balance in reports of the BRS defamation case.

It has also been conveniently omitted in all reporting by these journalists that the Taliban did not comply with the rules of armed conflict set out in the Geneva Conventions. Furthermore, the Taliban did not comply with the Ottawa Treaty which prohibits the use of anti-personnel mines such as IED’s which were used extensively by the Taliban. Hundreds of Australians and other Western soldiers were killed, dismembered and turned into mincemeat by IED’s.

The families of all 41 of our brave soldiers who lost their lives in Afghanistan and the 261 who were wounded have been forgotten by the media, the ADF and successive Governments. Additionally, more than 1500 veterans of this war, including SASR veterans, have since taken their own lives. More are likely to do so as a result of the unbalanced media reporting. These facts have been conveniently disregarded by these journalists, none of whom have put their lives on the line in uniform. Their media reporting has been, and continues to be, grossly unbalanced, and for this they have presented with Walkley awards by other journalists.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-...uiry/100604124

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

what a ****ing crock of ****

The only 'tax free' benefits happen when they serve in war like conditions, best to check you facts ol' son

Thread topic is based on events in Afghanistan.

Guess you missed that, young son.

Originally Posted by Mesa

Part of Defence is fighting overseas in wars we dont understand or believe we should partake in. Those wars, as callous as it sounds, also provide 'real time' training.
.

Wow....just wow.

Originally Posted by FTE217

My mate has huge anger issues, I've seen it many times over the years over a random thing, a switch just suddenly pops, his 3 kids used to be afraid of him let alone his wife.

Sounds like it was a great gig, how many did he kill?

[zilo]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

The issue is the Taliban, Vietcong etc aren’t held to the same standards we are.

Sometimes that's not a bad thing.

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

Think of the famous Vietnam War era photo. We all saw it here in the West, of a supposedly “innocent” North Vietnamese man Nguyen Van Len with a gun pulled to his head. Left wing media ran with it. Front page of the New York Times. We weren’t told that man had just executed 9993450

So...he hit a guy with a 14 pound sledgehammer and we killed him with a nail gun, guess he was just a little bit deader?

That's called fallacious relative perversion and is a failure of debating 101.

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

Any excuse to hate on the West, they will take. Communism/leftism is a seriously messed up ideology that takes serious mental gymnastics to defend, and that’s why leftists lie so much.

Pretty sure you have never lived in a communist country so just your embellished opinion and we all have plenty of those.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by zilo

Thread topic is based on events in Afghanistan.

Guess you missed that

Nah, got it exactly right

[csv8]

Australia had no right to go into Afghanistan. What was the result ? Taliban are still in control and 42 soldiers killed. For what ?

[zilo]

Originally Posted by csv8

Australia had no right to go into Afghanistan. What was the result ? Taliban are still in control and 42 soldiers killed. For what ? J

Little Johnnie had no choice, Tony and George shook and hung him upside down in the back of the shelter shed at school for his lunch money.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by csv8

He got Australia into Afghanistan. Australia had no right to go into Afghanistan. What was the result ? Taliban are still in control and 42 soldiers killed. For what ?

Well said Cav, spot on

[Interceptor]

BTW guys, PLEASE try to keep it semi civil in here, otherwise I see one of the mods locking this thread

[lra]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

BTW guys, PLEASE try to keep it semi civil in here, otherwise I see one of the mods locking this thread

I don't know why mods haven't deleted some comments which I find offensive.
And yet I have had comments deleted because they did not toe the Ford tinted glasses line.

I find this reporting particularly telling of the attitude towards veterans and ex-ADF members .........
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austr...99b444576&ei=9

Australia is regressing to the days of chucking red paint on soldiers marching in the street.
It is only a matter of time before something similar happens within the Aus War Memorial.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by lra

I don't know why mods haven't deleted some comments which I find offensive.
And yet I have had comments deleted because they did not toe the Ford tinted glasses line.

I find this reporting particularly telling of the attitude towards veterans and ex-ADF members .........
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austr...99b444576&ei=9

Australia is regressing to the days of chucking red paint on soldiers marching in the street.
It is only a matter of time before something similar happens within the Aus War Memorial.

Agree with you, Melbourne Shrine of Remembrance and local RSL's have been targeted over the years, just shows you the mentality that walks among us.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

It disappoints me to see soldiers turning their back on their brothers, the same men every soldier needs to be able to trust and depend on when the world is at its worst

Interesting comment you make here, and the question is why is it?
Do you think some ADF personal are trying to clear their consciousness as to what they are witnessing? this would be one of many reasons for PTSD

[FairmontGS]

The Australian War Memorial chair Kim Beazely, "a former Labor leader and defence minister", prepares to revise the BRS display...

Ben Roberts-Smith: Australian War Memorial to overhaul displays involving ex-soldier

Kim Beazley says AWM acknowledges gravity of defamation decision amid calls to remove exhibits

The Australian War Memorial has acknowledged the “gravity of the decision” in the Ben Roberts-Smith defamation case and says it is considering changes to the displays involving Australia’s most decorated living soldier.

The statement follows calls to remove Roberts-Smith’s uniform from public display at the memorial in Canberra.

The Australian War Memorial chair, Kim Beazley, said on Friday that the federal court ruling involved “a civil legal case” and was “one step in a longer process”.

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...hibits-uniform

[Trevor 57]

Overreaction

What will they do if no charges laid or if charges laid and found not guilty

Gulit driven by the 'Woke' folk, ****ing idiots

What happened to innocent until proven guilty

Good on Kim for not giving in to the ****ing idiots

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Overreaction

What will they do if no charges laid or if charges laid and found not guilty

Gulit driven by the 'Woke' folk, ****ing idiots

What happened to innocent until proven guilty

Good on Kim for not giving in to the ****ing idiots

What will they do if charges laid and found guilty.
Denial driven by experts on a car forum after a judge says he is guilty in a civil case...a judge...not a backyarder fixing a Falcon.
Innocence? phht..tell that to the family of the victim and the clear video evidence and overwhelming testimony of wittnesses.

No chance of him suffering from PTSD that's for sure.

[lra]

"The Australian War Memorial has acknowledged the “gravity of the decision” in the Ben Roberts-Smith defamation case and says it is considering changes to the displays involving Australia’s most decorated living soldier.
The statement follows calls to remove Roberts-Smith’s uniform from public display at the memorial in Canberra."

I think that removing the display is preferable to desecration from some inevitable 'look at me' action by a publicity seeking woke luvvie.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by zilo

experts on a car forum

Ahh..... so you are no different to the rest of us after all.

Tell you what..... if you think you can make such a difference over there, why not do so?

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by zilo

What will they do if charges laid and found guilty.
Denial driven by experts on a car forum after a judge says he is guilty in a civil case...a judge...not a backyarder fixing a Falcon.
Innocence? phht..tell that to the family of the victim and the clear video evidence and overwhelming testimony of wittnesses.

No chance of him suffering from PTSD that's for sure.

Jesus Christ, where was he found guilty, he took out a defamation and lost, no guilty charge

FFS

[PG2]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

BTW guys, PLEASE try to keep it semi civil in here, otherwise I see one of the mods locking this thread

Guys, I'm going to close it for 24 hours (or thereabouts). It will give everyone a chance to take a deep breath.

I understand that this is a very emotional topic, therefore, some people will have very strong opinions on the matter(s).



Cav...

I want to apologise for having to close the thread, even if it is temporarily, I know just how passionate you are about these sort of things.

[PG2]

PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING ANY FURTHER. IT JUST MAY SAVE YOU FROM A POTENTIAL WARNING/BAN OR HAVING THE THREAD CLOSE PERMANENTLY


As promised, the thread is now re-opened.

I have mentioned this before, if you are smashing keys into the keyboard, then maybe consider taking a deep breath and delete what you have typed and start again.

I too, have very strong opinions on this topic but have chosen not to share them on this sort of platform - maybe some others should consider this also.

Finally, everyone, please play nice.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Jesus Christ, where was he found guilty, he took out a defamation and lost, no guilty charge

FFS

that's easy for a clear thinking individual when preented with facts.

He lost a defamation trial where the JUDGE said he is guilty because the evidence presented sunstantiated the allegation that he murdered an unarmed man and covered it up.

Kerry stokes has stopped his support...$$$$$$

Hope that clears it up for you.

It will progress to the next stage in the fullness of time.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Ahh..... so you are no different to the rest of us after all.

Tell you what..... if you think you can make such a difference over there, why not do so?

Huh? Please explain.