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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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13-07-2014, 02:19 PM | #61 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2005
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By the way I believe there's going to be a retest by Wheels with engineers from Ford and Holden. I don't think we're going to be in on that one, personally I was satisfied with the results we had before and I stand by them.
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13-07-2014, 02:45 PM | #62 | ||
Long live the GT !
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Location: Perth WA
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If I was Wheels, I would hold off doing another test until we see some GT-F owners take delivery and do their own dyno runs... then we can take an average and put this issue to rest.
That's how HSV forums got their 316rwkw average for the GTS.
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2018 Ford Mustang GT - Oxford White | Auto | Herrod Tune | K&N Filter | StreetFighter Oil Separators | H&R Springs | Whiteline Vertical Links | Ceramic Protection | Tint "Whatya think of me car, XR Falcon, 351 Blown Cleveland running Motec injection and runnin' on methanol... goes pretty hard too, got heaps of torque for chucking burnouts, IT'S UNREAL !!" - Poida
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13-07-2014, 02:51 PM | #63 | ||
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The bottom line is there are two scenarios
1....if the Ford makes around the 311rw mark ford will have egg on their face. 2....if the Ford makes closer to their claimed mark it's going to be hilarious. Just have to wait and see.
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12.6 sec Turbonator 291 rwkw |
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13-07-2014, 02:59 PM | #64 | |||
3..2..1..
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Remember when street fords first dynoed a 335? They got some thing like 340 rwkw and everyone laughed, until other started getting similar numbers. We need a good amount of different cars being dynoed and go from there. |
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13-07-2014, 03:04 PM | #65 | ||
Render unto Caesar
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Thank you taking the time to come here and explain the situation blownvn.
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13-07-2014, 03:23 PM | #66 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Sorry if I missed it - what torque figure did the GT-F get in the 311rwkw run?
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13-07-2014, 03:27 PM | #67 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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13-07-2014, 03:31 PM | #68 | |||
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Everyone knows of both GT335s and vf GTS dynos that've gone under 300rwkws. Imagine if wheels got that on the day I bet they would have handled/commented on that far differently! |
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13-07-2014, 03:33 PM | #69 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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I don't print chassis dyno torque figures because I don't trust them, because some try to show flywheel figures while others use tractive effort. When it comes to chassis dynos I think it's best to stick with HP or KW.
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13-07-2014, 03:39 PM | #70 | |||
Rob
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why are SM so defensive over this whole issue. very little noise coming from wheels, but SM seem overly defensive. the saying ,'thou protesteth too much' comes to mind. why are you not prepared to listen to the manufacturer? surely they would know their product better than anyone. why was the performance not questioned relative to the 335? VCM have tested 'loads of 335's' apparently. why not mention the ave result of these to provide an idea of the dyno readings. most of the fans don't care about the GTS number, something the mags failed to grasp. nearly all the concern is the low figure relative to the 335. |
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13-07-2014, 03:41 PM | #71 | ||||
Rob
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so you don't take notice of the figures? or only when it suits your argument against something? i'm confused. |
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13-07-2014, 03:43 PM | #72 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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hit send too early - see answer below
Last edited by blownvn; 13-07-2014 at 03:53 PM. |
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13-07-2014, 03:45 PM | #73 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Ford, fpv and pro drive have been developing and working with this motor for years now. I think they would have a fair idea what they make. Hundreds of engineers, thousands of hours, and few trillion Gigga Bytes of info would be telling them what their motor makes.
SM and wheels dyno test for a hand full of runs on one dyno and come up with a figure. Now they are telling Ford that their engineers, technicians and mechanics are talking crap and the GTF only makes 311 rwkw. That would be right as a journalist with all his years of mechanical and training experience can stand beside what someone's else's dyno tells them, and take that as gospel. Only a fool/fools would do that. In this case I believe Ford over SM and Wheels. Ford is a multi billion dollar company. They dont share an office with 3 other little book makers. Ford have a lot more to loose then SM and Wheels if they are wrong. All there data tells them that 311rwkw is not right. If it was they wouldn't put up an argument. I'm sorry but SM and Wheels pulled the trigger too early in their rush to get out there first with dyno figures. If they were right with the 311 figure and ford were wrong it would all be proved in the end and they could brag away to there delights. Doing what they have done only highlights their lack of respect for Ford and all the Aussie people who have worked on the SC Miami motor and the GT's in general. Ford are going to fight for their product and the truth. Givin the circumstances, who wouldnt do that. |
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13-07-2014, 03:47 PM | #74 | |||
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Who is talking about awards or titles? This was merely meant to be an interesting comparison. It wasn't meant to be the be all and end all test for FPV and HSV. We ran the cars as presented. It's certainly a fairer test than having a team of engineers pour all over each car before hand. As for attention seeking, that's exactly what the media business is about, but we don't have rig results to spark controversy - the controversy was already there, we just brought it to light. |
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13-07-2014, 03:53 PM | #75 | ||
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I'm not sure if Ford has much to lose, the GT-F's are sold out. I'm more interested to see what members on here will be getting on the strip, if their MPH gets up towards 116+ we will know the power has been upped from the 335. In saying that, dyno numbers are still fun to brag about.
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13-07-2014, 03:54 PM | #76 | |||
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13-07-2014, 04:02 PM | #77 | |||
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You don't hear much from Wheels because they don't know much about dynos. They don't usually dyno test cars and they know little about them. On the other hand we at SM are constantly seeing cars dyno'ed. We have a fair idea of what to expect. Before all this came about Ford never made any claims about power other than the GT-F made 351kw "anywhere, anytime" and up to 15% more when the conditions are right. To now claim their cars are making up to 351rwkw is just laughable. Ford has never talked to SM about the results, only Wheels. I don't consider the GT-F figure to be low, after all you can't race dynos. No point comparing dyno figures from other workshops or manual cars. |
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13-07-2014, 04:04 PM | #78 | |||
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13-07-2014, 04:07 PM | #79 | |||
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Do you think performance testing shouldn't be done at a track that's sponsored by Ford of Holden? They actually releasing a new Ford tuning program soon so I don't see that having VCM do the testing over someone like Herrods makes any difference. |
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13-07-2014, 04:15 PM | #80 | |||
Rob
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its ok for you to call in to question the honesty and integrity of ford, but believe you are above reproach yourself? and clearly you are the type that resort to violence when question as well. bravo. to be fair though, this is just another example of you being defensive. after all, SM didn't dyno the cars, VCM did. its not SM's credibility in question, well, it wasn't, until they started being ultra defensive. |
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13-07-2014, 04:16 PM | #81 | |||
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I'm saying I reckon it's bullshit. But if you want to have this argument then fine. Look at our dyno video. In the top left hand corner you will see a torque figure that climbs with the dyno graph. It says the torque stays around the 570Nm mark (+/- a couple Nm) for the whole run. Motoring.com.au are claiming 150Nm more. That's a massive difference. how does a car limited to 570Nm via its factory tune make 721Nm? |
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13-07-2014, 04:20 PM | #82 | |||
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In this case I think they never expected us to dyno the car, then they panicked. Then I reckon they handed the car off to another publication to get the results they wanted. The timing was very convenient, they managed to delay Wheels just enough to get "their" figures out. We'll see what the retest delivers. |
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13-07-2014, 04:22 PM | #83 | |||
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13-07-2014, 04:25 PM | #84 | ||
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13-07-2014, 04:26 PM | #85 | |||
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13-07-2014, 04:30 PM | #86 | ||
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It is so snapping. you even threaten a member on here for questioning you. it does matter because if one place that has affiliation with a car company and tests another car companies vehicle of course ***** gunna hit the wall. I find the results weird as most stock GT's are putting out this figure or more at the wheels. plus we have another mob claiming the GT-F makes more power
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13-07-2014, 04:31 PM | #87 | |||
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All these 320rwkw figures quoted. My first question would be are they auto or manual? Are they on a Dyno Dynamics dyno? A manual car on a DD dyno will probably see the highest result. My mates GT-P manual made 308rwkw when it was new, but again different dyno, different day. You can only compare two cars using the same dyno, same time. |
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13-07-2014, 04:35 PM | #88 | ||
Rob
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so why are you accusing Ford of fiddling with the car for the 'motoring' test?? perhaps its just the fact that its a different day and different dyno?
i still think SM have been way too defensive. should have taken a leaf out of 'wheels' book and just gone to ground and let the public argue it out. |
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13-07-2014, 04:51 PM | #89 | |||
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like this hey. this thing made 348kw at the wheels. can you explain this?? the same dyno was used for the GTS it made more then what wheels got (8kw difference) but yet the GT-F made 37kw more then what wheels claimed?? please explain this?? and as far as I know GT-F number 14 is auto |
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13-07-2014, 04:53 PM | #90 | |||
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Even with different dynos cars don't just jump 37kw and 150Nm overnight. Anyway, I'm going to leave it there. I've said my piece. |
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