VFacts February '10 - Page 3

XR8putts · 04-03-2010, 09:08 AM

Yes, but that system is useless if no other Ford dealer in the state has what you want either!

On the topic of people saying 'it's okay if Ford sells less Falcons than Holden sells Commodores, Ford are making a profit/more profit on each car than Holden is (and sometimes 'Holden are selling at a loss' tagged on the end of that) - people on these forums must stop pulling that line out over and over untill we see some indusputable proof that this is the case.

I honestly believe thisonly came about after the FG failed to topple the VE and the high volume of G-series (and XR) made this believable,

4Vman · 04-03-2010, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puts99

Yes, but that system is useless if no other Ford dealer in the state has what you want either!

Im not trying to be smart but you're in NZ right? Do you any experience with Dealer networking here?
When did you last shop for a new Falcon in Australia?
I would have thought its a bit hard to make such statements without some experience....

Wally · 04-03-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

I am currently in the process of buying a Mazda 6 diesel wagon. My dealer doesnt have one so he looked up in the system who did. He could tell me how many were where and what colour. Even how many in each state. But I am going to go for the facelifted model that is arriving in around May. I cant see why it would be any different for Ford.

Boy aren't the Mazda dealers keen to do deals. We just went through the process and the slae price was way below what we expected.

OT, the thread as usual goes on about production to order, niche sales, private Vs fleet, holden is crap, Kezzer is a troll, the public are stupid, etc, with so many negatives it's a goddamned wonder Ford make any sales at all. It's a conspiracy I tells ya.

Simple test is = if it was your buisness would you be happy with the performance; would you sit there and listen to your sales team telling you they can't make the volumes because the public are dumbarses, VE's are **********, Kezzer said holden engines are better, the boys at AFF are right behind us,..... no fricken way you would. You would show them the door for people who have some mongrel, people who are prepared to do what it takes, people who want a sales and aren't ashamed to sell diamonds or crap to the masses, people who are prepared to engage a client with all the BS it takes to get a positive repsonse.... hmm I can think of a couple of rogues here who would be good candidates.

Wretched · 04-03-2010, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

I am currently in the process of buying a Mazda 6 diesel wagon. My dealer doesnt have one so he looked up in the system who did. He could tell me how many were where and what colour. Even how many in each state. But I am going to go for the facelifted model that is arriving in around May. I cant see why it would be any different for Ford.

Ford dealers have something similar.
When I went to purchase my XR5, I wanted silver with leather.
The dealer was able to locate an order placed by another dealer with the exact same details and swap it for one he had on order. He was also able to tell me when it was scheduled to be built.

GK · 04-03-2010, 11:16 AM

I am slowly and painfully coming to the conclusion that Ford will never again outsell Holden.

I guess I've been holding out for that to occur for a long time. I think my peace will come when I admit that market perception, and fleet and government preferences will continue to torpedo Ford's opportunity to again be top seller.

We all know the Falcon is better than the Commodore. We can still be proud of our product. It's darn good.

I guess for me, it really stinks that so many people simply assume you have an inferior product. It gives you a greater feeling of satisfaction to not only be driving the best product, but the most popular as well. We'll have to console ourselves with the former.

As long as Falcon is still profitable and being produced, that will remain a wonderful thing. But I guess our collective frustration over market share etc, etc, will just have to endure, as it's not going to change anytime in the foreseeable future.

Darn shame, but it's the sad truth.

:

GK

XR8putts · 04-03-2010, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Im not trying to be smart but you're in NZ right? Do you any experience with Dealer networking here?
When did you last shop for a new Falcon in Australia?
I would have thought its a bit hard to make such statements without some experience....

No, I don't have any experience purchasing a new Ford in Australia. I do in NZ however, and the dealers just don't have stock. Nor can they get stock any time soon. Dealers here have the same systems in place you speak of, but if their co-dealers also don't have what you're after then it's pointless isn't it?

My opinion on the matter is based apon my own experiences here in NZ, and numerous posters on this forum (over the last say 3-4 months) where I have noticed repeated complaints about stock levels being too low and the wait for what a customer wants (and thier impatience) forcing them to look at other brands. This thread alone goes someway of showing that it is not just buyers in NZ suffering.

Surely you can admit there is a supply problem? The fix may not be simple or easy, but if this trend continues, how long will the Falcon survive?

Chopped · 04-03-2010, 11:41 AM

I reckon if Holden made/bought back a one tonner ute then they would top the Falcon ute sales as well.

Same old excuses from Ford.

Isn't the MAZDA 3 the most popular car with the private buyers ?

**Fordman1** · 04-03-2010, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GK

I am slowly and painfully coming to the conclusion that Ford will never again outsell Holden.

I guess I've been holding out for that to occur for a long time. I think my peace will come when I admit that market perception, and fleet and government preferences will continue to torpedo Ford's opportunity to again be top seller.

We all know the Falcon is better than the Commodore. We can still be proud of our product. It's darn good.

I guess for me, it really stinks that so many people simply assume you have an inferior product. It gives you a greater feeling of satisfaction to not only be driving the best product, but the most popular as well. We'll have to console ourselves with the former.

As long as Falcon is still profitable and being produced, that will remain a wonderful thing. But I guess our collective frustration over market share etc, etc, will just have to endure, as it's not going to change anytime in the foreseeable future.

Darn shame, but it's the sad truth.

:

GK

I feel the same way, however I think these results are painting a picture of Ford of Australia's future (in)ability to invest in future model programs, after the Territory facelift, in this country.

FoA will continue to paint a picture which is rosey and 'we can't get / make enough cars', and we have a 'rich' model mix... etc, etc.

In the end there won't be a business case for an ALL NEW CAR (which doesn't use the existing platform), on these volumes - PERIOD !

If FoA is required to use an overseas platform ( because of the 'One Ford' policy) .... IF.... I'd say most bits will come from OS including sheetmetal (if it is assembled here at all).

I'm eagerly awaiting that supposed decision that is due next year.....

Road_Warrior · 04-03-2010, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

FoA will continue to paint a picture which is rosey and 'we can't get / make enough cars', and we have a 'rich' model mix... etc, etc.

And this is the exact dribbling that I am sick and tired of hearing from Ford Australia mouthpieces.

Mitsubishi made some decent products in Australia once upon a time too, but low volumes added up to an unsustainable business case and Mr Mitsubishi showed Tonsley Park the door.

The Global Financial Crisis is quite clearly over, at least as far as the FCAI is concerned, so Ford needs to get out of GFC lockdown mode and back to normal production operations. The demand for product is quite clearly there otherwise the statistics quoted in this thread wouldn't be as damning as they are!!

Profits are nothing without volume, and volume is nothing without profits. They need to strike a balance, and current volumes 'aint it.

Joe5619 · 04-03-2010, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

And this is the exact dribbling that I am sick and tired of hearing from Ford Australia mouthpieces.

Why is it dribble???

Business's are about making money, not topping sales charts!! Unless we have access to the full costing of plant rate increase we are all just speaking dribble!! Ford has access to that & are at present making good money.. Maybe they know more than we do!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GK

I am slowly and painfully coming to the conclusion that Ford will never again outsell Holden.

Who cares? I'd be happer if Ford made more money than Holden so they can stay in buessines long enougth to sale me another new Falcon!

R-Design · 04-03-2010, 01:38 PM

Some interesting comments here, I think one of the big problems is Ford announcing its model intentions 12-18 months out from launch. We can see from what’s happening with the Mustang in the USA what effect this is having on sales. If you were in the market for a Territory would you buy now or wait for the Diesel & updated sheet metal? Similarly, in the case of the Falcon, buy now or wait for the new engines (I4T, I6 LI LPG, 5.0 V8) to appear? Even the 2011 Focus has been revealed, have a look at the effect that’s had on sales.

The sales will come, but not until the product range is complete. I tend to think all this talk about production capacity is a smokescreen. If sales where that brilliant there’d be no need for drive away pricing on XR6 or the (not so) Limited Edition G6.

Smoke Pursuit · 04-03-2010, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

When did you last buy a new Falcon?
I did last week, Dealers have plenty enough stock to supply just about any model to a customer that "desperate" for a car they cant wait for MTO...
Anyone desperate enough to HAVE to get a car now will take what's avaliable...
Ford customers have it relatively good, we waited over 3 months for our 2010 Mazda CX7 to be delivered.
If you really have your heart set on a particular car you'll wait.

Oh, ask any Millionaire, Profit is king over market share at a loss....

Its estimated by dealers that Ford could have sold another 1500 - 2000 Falcon utes in 2009 due to the investment allowance, but both in June 2009 and Dec 2009 you couldnt get one, and did Ford really care?? No..

The same went for Rangers, which you still cannot buy off the floor? Ford really dont stock enough cars, and dealers are dieing because of it.

Ford dont have enough cars on the floor, theres no doubt about it.. And sadly people wont wait.

What did you buy?

Brazen · 04-03-2010, 02:24 PM

Ford arnt making bespoke luxury sports cars, they are making police, rental and family cars. People are kidding themselves if they think that volume isnt king in this end of the game.

4Vman · 04-03-2010, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Its estimated by dealers that Ford could have sold another 1500 - 2000 Falcon utes in 2009 due to the investment allowance, but both in June 2009 and Dec 2009 you couldnt get one, and did Ford really care?? No..

The same went for Rangers, which you still cannot buy off the floor? Ford really dont stock enough cars, and dealers are dieing because of it.

Ford dont have enough cars on the floor, theres no doubt about it.. And sadly people wont wait.

What did you buy?

I bought an XR6.. (Fords biggest seller) dealer had it sitting there, i had a choice of 4 colors just on his lot alone..
Could have had any color if i wanted to pay extra for a 2010 plated car but as a work run about it made no sense..
Sure ford don't have 1 of everything sitting at every dealer but 80% of the time the dealer can find what you want somewhere, otherwise just order it.
If i was buying a FPV vehicle id PREFER it was MTO..... and happy to wait for it.
Has anyone considered Ford maybe at capacity from an efficiency point of view and to ramp up production to the next efficiently point might result in paddocks full of cars that end up having to be discounted to move...???

4Vman · 04-03-2010, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Ford arnt making bespoke luxury sports cars, they are making police, rental and family cars. People are kidding themselves if they think that volume isnt king in this end of the game.

Total rubbish.... Try convincing ANY smart business person volume is more important than profit..
That theory will send you broke very quickly.

Volume is only Good if you make money at the same time.

Ford should aim to sell as many cars as they can AT A PROFIT...
you don't bastardize you brand by "commodisising" it by discounting the bum out of it just to move numbers at a loss...

Road_Warrior · 04-03-2010, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Why is it dribble???

Business's are about making money, not topping sales charts!! Unless we have access to the full costing of plant rate increase we are all just speaking dribble!! Ford has access to that & are at present making good money.. Maybe they know more than we do!!

So in that case they should know full well that their dealers are turning customers away because they cant get product! Oh but don't worry about that, we have a rich model mix! Which means absolutely jack all to a customer who has just been turned away from a Ford dealer and won't be visiting again any time soon!

Customers couldn't care less about Ford's supposed "rich model mix" or "can't build enough of them" claims, when all they want is the car they want, now. This is what consumer sentiment and expectation has evolved to. Otherwise, they will go to another brand. There is enough brand and segment competition these days to allow a buyer to do exactly that.

4Vman · 04-03-2010, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

So in that case they should know full well that their dealers are turning customers away because they cant get product! Oh but don't worry about that, we have a rich model mix! Which means absolutely jack all to a customer who has just been turned away from a Ford dealer and won't be visiting again any time soon!

Customers couldn't care less about Ford's supposed "rich model mix" or "can't build enough of them" claims, when all they want is the car they want, now. This is what consumer sentiment and expectation has evolved to. Otherwise, they will go to another brand. There is enough brand and segment competition these days to allow a buyer to do exactly that.

I don't believe dealers are turning away many people at all.....
nobody seems to know what the MTO lead time is so there can't be too many people getting that deep into the negotiation....
I mean seriously... as a salesperson wouldnt you get the deal done then get back to the customer the next day with a delivery ETA? Why let a delivery ETA determine a sale?
I also don't believe anyone shopping for a new car would reasonably think the dealer would stock what they wanted anyway.....

**russellw** · 04-03-2010, 03:10 PM

The Supplementary statistical data has also now been uploaded.

Cheers
Russ

Joe5619 · 04-03-2010, 05:09 PM

Can I explain one thing to people.. Ford AUS has made losses for the last 3-4 years in a row (Not sure about 2009 as they have not released this information).. So Ford AUS biggest job at hand is to turn loss into profit & do it with the less amount of risk.. Increased line rates, increased stock levels all adds risk & no guarantee of profit!! Ford AUS did make a profit in Qtr4 2009, so they have turned the corner & can make profit at current levels.. Ford is not in the right financial heath to start aggressive chasing sales volumes & aggressively changing production line rates.. It is all about safe & constant profit at this stage. And I dear say will be this way for a few years.

Ford needs profit & this stage not the no1 sales position!!

I didn't have any problems getting XR6T in Nov/Dec09!! Sure I had to wait 4.5 weeks, but that is normal for alot of makes.. Most poeple I speak to when they buy a new car have to wait at least 5 weeks. I also walk past a Ford dealer (in Sydney) most days of the week & can't remember the last time I saw as many Falcons & territs in the holding area as I do now..

4Vman · 04-03-2010, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Can I explain one thing to people.. Ford AUS has made losses for the last 3-4 years in a row (Not sure about 2009 as they have not released this information).. So Ford AUS biggest job at hand is to turn loss into profit & do it with the less amount of risk.. Increased line rates, increased stock levels all adds risk & no guarantee of profit!! Ford AUS did make a profit in Qtr4 2009, so they have turned the corner & can make profit at current levels.. Ford is not in the right financial heath to start aggressive cashing sales volumes & aggressively changing production line rates.. It is all about safe & constant profit at this stage. And I dear say will be this way for a few years.

Ford needs profit & this stage not the no1 sales position!!

I did have a problems getting XR6T in Dec09!! Sure I had to wait 4.5 weeks, but that is normal for alot of makes.. Most poeple I speak to when they buy a new car car to wait at least 5 weeks.

Well said, i've waited 5 and 6 weeks for my last 2 new XR8's, in 2001 and 2003....

We Waited 4 months for a new SLK230 in 2002...

My Wifes new 2010 Mazda CX7 took 12 weeks.... so 4-5 weeks wait is pretty reasonable.

Rodp · 04-03-2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I don't believe dealers are turning away many people at all.....
nobody seems to know what the MTO lead time is so there can't be too many people getting that deep into the negotiation....
I mean seriously... as a salesperson wouldnt you get the deal done then get back to the customer the next day with a delivery ETA? Why let a delivery ETA determine a sale?
I also don't believe anyone shopping for a new car would reasonably think the dealer would stock what they wanted anyway.....

I guess society has become accustomed to wanting it today, getting it tomorrow. I know I'm a little like that. I was lucky that the last car I got was built and on a ship on its way here (so the wait was only ~2 months - but it was a fixed wait). I don't know if I would wait that long for a locally built Ford when there's no guarantee that the date they tell you is the date your car will arrive if it's MTO. I rely on my car for my job and I don't want to futz about when it's time to change over.

I go in with a general idea of what I do and don't want.. and if they can source one, all good if it takes a week or two to ship in. If it joins a queue to be built, I definitely won't wait. Heading my next car list is an F6 closely followed by a G6ET (and if it's in 5 months time, maybe even a Ford V8). If I can't find one with the options at the price I want to pay in a fixed delivery time, I'm quite happy to look at an EVO, STi or HSV.

Does that affect Ford? Ok, they're losing a sale but a sale on a car they haven't built. They're probably in a better position in that regard than having a field of 09 plated cars they have to sell at a loss.

4Vman · 04-03-2010, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

I guess society has become accustomed to wanting it today, getting it tomorrow. I know I'm a little like that. I was lucky that the last car I got was built and on a ship on its way here (so the wait was only ~2 months - but it was a fixed wait). I don't know if I would wait that long for a locally built Ford when there's no guarantee that the date they tell you is the date your car will arrive if it's MTO. I rely on my car for my job and I don't want to futz about when it's time to change over.

I go in with a general idea of what I do and don't want.. and if they can source one, all good if it takes a week or two to ship in. If it joins a queue to be built, I definitely won't wait. Heading my next car list is an F6 closely followed by a G6ET (and if it's in 5 months time, maybe even a Ford V8). If I can't find one with the options at the price I want to pay in a fixed delivery time, I'm quite happy to look at an EVO, STi or HSV.

Does that affect Ford? Ok, they're losing a sale but a sale on a car they haven't built. They're probably in a better position in that regard than having a field of 09 plated cars they have to sell at a loss.

The thing is you have 3,4 or 5 years notice before your lease runs out... if its an update for a lease vehicle all you need to do is plan 5-6 weeks out!!!
I can't understand why that's such an issue but you're right, we live in a "must have it now" society.......

whales · 04-03-2010, 05:27 PM

what every one says on this tread is true enough but having the bragging rights of 14 years as Australia's favourite car must help in sales. Ford unfortunatley will not have these bragging right ever again.
Just face facts better products don't guarantee sales! The bottom dollar does with clever advertising.
Terri sales over Captiva sales confirms it.

jpd80 · 04-03-2010, 05:56 PM

Anyone have sales figures for Mondeo and Ranger?

Carby · 04-03-2010, 06:39 PM

Looking at it from a different standpoint I don't think it is the cars that are the problem, I think it is the type of people buying the cars. As everyone is aware we have a high influx of immigrants from the Middle East and Asia - they know nothing about Holden or Falcon but are aware of the Asian brands and like most aspire to the Euro brands.

I can't recall seeing many Middle Eastern people in an Holdens or Falcons (because their antecedents are American?) and in performance cars it's almost exclusively Turbo Japanese. Many have large families and yes the Tarago gets a good run there!

With the Chinese I have noticed two types when it comes to buying a vehicle: those with little money go for the low end like Kia and Hyundai and those with Money Honda's and (more money) the Mercedes is a favourite. Likewise with Indians they love Toyota's especially Camry's.

So what I'm saying here is, are we seeing a big paradigm shift in car purchase habits? For many of us we first bought a Ford or Holden or Chrysler because our parents did, that sort of culture is not existent with new immigrants and they are probably more familar with Japanese types than our Aussie made cars.

The above contains a few generalisation, but when the Falcon (and Commodore for that matter) represent such brilliant value and have never been better and they really suit our country it is hard to fathom why sales keep falling.......

**russellw** · 04-03-2010, 06:41 PM

While we are talking about profitability, it is interesting to look at the data up to the last available reporting year (2008) for Ford, Holden and Toyota.

Over the decade from 1999-2008 all three manufacturers were profitable with Holden being the most profitable ahead of Toyota and Ford.

Narrowing the field down to the last 5 years (from 2004 to 2008) we see a different picture where only Toyota has been profitable and with Holden recording larger aggregate losses than Ford.

It will be interesting to see the numbers for 2009.

Cheers
Russ

**russellw** · 04-03-2010, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Anyone have sales figures for Mondeo and Ranger?

The Mondeo figures are in the Stats section already.

The Ford Ranger figures are below:

Ford Ranger 4x2 - 269 in Feb, 595 YTD (down 25.3%)
Ford Ranger 4x4 - 403 in Feb, 798 YTD (down 11.0%)

I shall endeavour to add them to the monthly stats.

Cheers
Russ

PS: The Ranger and 4x4 Ute categories have been added now.

vztrt · 04-03-2010, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kezzer

So ford isn't making enough cars? Why don't they just -up- production? Or am I missing something... If the demand is there, how hard is it to hire a few more workers? No way broad meadows is working at its peak? Anyway, goes to show that no matter how better a product it, brand image sells, it's quite stupid.

Increasing production has been discussed many times in the last couple of months, I dont see how you can still be asking this question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

The thing is, every other car factory on the planet has the same issues with costs and logistics in producing cars, why is it that Ford AU is always excused for lack of production?

Its actually only recently that its been a problem, the line rate has dropped from 550 to 270 cars a day. If Ford are to up the line rate it'll take 3 months before more cars are built a day. Its a long and costly process and the numbers have to be right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Does a Ford dealer have access to the entire Ford inventory across all dealers or only dealers in their 'dealer network'? I'd suggest probably the latter.

I know Volkswagen were like that when I bought my Golf. If one Ford dealer doesn't show stock in the car you want, would probably pay to ring around.

Yes they do, but it'll depend on their profit if they wanna bring it down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Total rubbish.... Try convincing ANY smart business person volume is more important than profit..
That theory will send you broke very quickly.

Volume is only Good if you make money at the same time.

Ford should aim to sell as many cars as they can AT A PROFIT...
you don't bastardize you brand by "commodisising" it by discounting the bum out of it just to move numbers at a loss...

I agree with you but the economy is picking up and I'm sure they will do the sums to either keep O/T going (which seems to not working) or up the line rate.

vztrt · 04-03-2010, 07:09 PM

http://www.caradvice.com.au/59632/hy...-in-australia/

Quote:

Hyundai sales go Nuts in Australia

March 4, 2010 by Anthony Crawford

If you don’t see 10 Hyundai branded cars on the road each day, then I’d be prepared to quit this job tomorrow.

With unit sales of 7,208 cars in February alone, it’s not hard to see why I’ll probably be keeping my job for many years to come.

The result is also Hyundai’s best ever sales ranking since the company started selling cars in Australia in 1986. Their market share has risen to a sizeable 8.8 percent and the forecast is that it will keep on driving north.

In a market that has grown 17 percent year-on-year, Hyundai has been the standout player with an overall increase in sales of a staggering 73.6 percent.

The hugely successful iLoad van, which has clearly become the tradesmen’s favourite, is now the number one selling van in this highly competitive segment. With February sales of the model topping out at 657 units, market share has exploded to 33.7 percent.

And the story is even better than that, with the iMax now ranked second in the people mover segment and a market share of 23.6 percent.

Similarly, the i30 posted sales of 2,926 cars for the month of February, which gave the model a 15.6 percent market share.

In the highly competitive light car segment, Hyundai’s Getz was ranked number one sales of 1,927 cars sold.

And the big picture looks just as good with global sales for the month of February totaling 250,995 meaning a 23.4 percent increase over 2009.

Moreover with the launch of the i20 hatch and i45 mid-sized sedan during the first half of this year, things are certain to hot up even further for Hyundai.

Even once die-hard skeptics of the Korean powerhouse are now walking into Hyundai dealerships to find out what all the fuss is about. And if they should take a test drive, chances are, they may well drive out in their very own Hyundai.

phillyc · 04-03-2010, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

The first set of graphical data and commentary for February has now been uploaded to the Tech Area.

Cheers
Russ

Fiesta is totally kicking goals! Cracking 1071 sales for February. Looking at those graphs, a Ford light car hasn't been that high since May 2000.

Falcon sales are also up 20.3% in February YOY and 42% in January YOY. For YTD that is 816 sales. That is in a segment up 10.2% (1380) sales YTD.

What has been good to see is the locally made cars; Commodore up 720, Falcon up 816 & Aurion up 138 taking sales from the imported large competitors. It also highlights that the Falcon is increasing it's market share.