Australia records highest road toll in over a decade

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

No mention of the actual human cost though.
Question answered.

I think we all know and care, and perhaps even more so about anyone badly injured, but the truth is, this is not a zero risk activity. We should all strive to minimise accidents, injuries and death, but any agency that thinks they can eliminate it all together is ****ing in the wind.

the TAC's Safe System, recognises that drivers and riders make mistakes, and that the roads should be resilient to that, but unfortunately, the only tool they seem to have, is to reduce speeds, so as to reduce injuries. That's understandable in a government agency, as any other solution incurs costs. Understandable, but also unforgiveable! Safety should not have a price tag, and if the best solution is to redesign the road or junction, fix the potholes, or even trim the verge, then Council, TAC or RRV should spend the money!

[Franco Cozzo]

Out my way it's a constant battle and Mexican stand off between council and VicRoads over whose responsibility it is to cut grass on the sides of the roads or in roundabouts.

Every single time, they just finger point and implement delay tactics over any rectifications.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Out my way it's a constant battle and Mexican stand off between council and VicRoads over whose responsibility it is to cut grass on the sides of the roads or in roundabouts.

Every single time, they just finger point and implement delay tactics over any rectifications.

Unfortunately, in this day & age politicians, ministers & bureaucrats of govco & shires seem to shirk their responsibilities and blame others, in my opinion fn disgace and we the public must swallow this shit.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Out my way it's a constant battle and Mexican stand off between council and VicRoads over whose responsibility it is to cut grass on the sides of the roads or in roundabouts.

Every single time, they just finger point and implement delay tactics over any rectifications.

Franco, I reckon that applies to all areas of Australia. It certainly does here in Central Queensland.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Because its negligible as a representation of all Australians.

It gets a lot more resources dedicated to it than other issues which claim more lives in our society, disproportionately so.

great point!

road toll 2022 1267
national suicide toll 2022 3249

and then we have

heart disease 18643
dementia 17106
diabetes 6040

road trauma isn't even in the top 20. Even Cirrhosis kills more people nationally than the roads.

[prydey]

Often with road trauma it's innocent people getting killed.

Punishing non compliance is a massive source of income for the govt. I guess they have to justify it to some degree.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

great point!

road toll 2022 1267
national suicide toll 2022 3249

and then we have

heart disease 18643
dementia 17106
diabetes 6040

road trauma isn't even in the top 20. Even Cirrhosis kills more people nationally than the roads.

I was going to say you can't make money out of cirrhosis but you can through alcohol taxes

Be interesting to overlay the damage caused by alcohol and tobacco related diseases vs their revenue - I'm pretty sure smokers cover well and truly above their medical/treatment costs through taxes and that they're unfairly taxed and seen as a significant revenue source to the federal government.

Hence why we have a rather significant war going in behind the scenes in Melbourne at the moment over control of the illicit tobacco market.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Itsme

Unfortunately, in this day & age politicians, ministers & bureaucrats of govco & shires seem to shirk their responsibilities and blame others, in my opinion fn disgace and we the public must swallow this shit.

Originally Posted by GCRXR6

Franco, I reckon that applies to all areas of Australia. It certainly does here in Central Queensland.

Absolutely shits me, you talk to council and they'll be like...

Its VicRoads responsibility, talk to them,

You call VicRoads and they're like this is councils responsibility

And you get shoved around while nothing gets done,

Even if it is VicRoads responsibility, the flogs over at council should be picking up the phone and getting onto VicRoads to make stuff happen, or in constant contact with our state MP.

The 'its not my job' mentality really shits me big time, yeah might not be 'your job' but as my representatives you can make a ****ing effort, and I'm sure it holds more weight coming from local government representatives than Franco.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Absolutely shits me, you talk to council and they'll be like...

Its VicRoads responsibility, talk to them,

You call VicRoads and they're like this is councils responsibility

And you get shoved around while nothing gets done,

Even if it is VicRoads responsibility, the flogs over at council should be picking up the phone and getting onto VicRoads to make stuff happen, or in constant contact with our state MP.

The 'its not my job' mentality really shits me big time, yeah might not be 'your job' but as my representatives you can make a ****ing effort, and I'm sure it holds more weight coming from local government representatives than Franco.

Wait until you get involved with building a boundary wall on a main road, pass the buck time until its finished then both want to fine you.

In the meantime the grass is 6ft tall along the freeway turn offs and they can't mow them properly because of the stupid catch fences they installed.

[Citroënbender]

Seventeen year old fellow having a go at DIY, squashed under a car in his driveway. Mittagong NSW, this afternoon. I don’t know if this counts as part of the road toll or not. Many of us here have rolled the dice on safety and lived to think better of it - but terribly sad for his family and friends.

https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/n...bWwmYWxsPTE%3D

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Seventeen year old fellow having a go at DIY, squashed under a car in his driveway. Mittagong NSW, this afternoon. I don’t know if this counts as part of the road toll or not. Many of us here have rolled the dice on safety and lived to think better of it - but terribly sad for his family and friends.

https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/n...bWwmYWxsPTE%3D

Rest in peace young man. Condolences to his loved ones. A sad accident which brings back visions of like accidents, which I have attended over my 30 years as a Para.

Please, everyone, ensure your vehicle is well supported, and then add more, before heading underneath.

[Citroënbender]

By my counting, in the last five days at least nine people have died on NSW roads (including two pedestrians). That’s a remarkable number.

It seems that in a good number of these crashes, deaths resulted from people not bothering to observe laws in either spirit or practice. I’m far from convinced that simple “solutions” like further lowering of speed limits or more cameras, will change much.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

By my counting, in the last five days at least nine people have died on NSW roads (including two pedestrians). That’s a remarkable number.

It seems that in a good number of these crashes, deaths resulted from people not bothering to observe laws in either spirit or practice. I’m far from convinced that simple “solutions” like further lowering of speed limits or more cameras, will change much.

Lowering speed limits and putting in cameras is the road safety equivalent of 'shifting the burden' - it's trying to address a symptom rather than a root cause of the problem.

It's a problem because the money available from camera fines is attractive to state governments in a battle with a dwindling tax base and ever increasing infrastructure costs.

I liken it to the excessive taxes on tobacco, Ive never even smoked before, not even tried it but I'd draw the line at paying $50 for a pack of smokes where $30 of it is taxes, I'd immediately source $20 black market tobacco and as a result the government gets a 0% slice of tax revenue on a now $2.3 billion dollar black market while I'm still hypothetically smoking and they'll be footing the bill for my healthcare when I eventually start crapping out.

It's done absolutely nothing to address the issue of health costs of smoking except get to a point where the government is now losing revenue because they got too greedy but they're still funding the repercussions of this behaviour.

It's the same thing with beer, pubs are closing instead of charging $20 a pint because customers won't pay it anymore, the amount of tax on alcohol is insane.

Unfortunately you can't have the road safety discussion without the associated political one as they go hand in hand.

What's the root cause of the deaths?

[PG2]

PLEASE READ. PLEASE DON'T THINK, "OH, ANOTHER ONE OF PG2'S POSTS THREATENING TO HAND OUT HOLIDAYS."
\

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

...

Unfortunately you can't have the road safety discussion without the associated political one as they go hand in hand.

What's the root cause of the deaths?

As with most topics discussed (and you have even mentioned it before), we will allow some sort of political discussion as long as it directly relates to the topic at hand. What we don't want to see is people arguing over which political party is doing what. I'll settle that now - none of the parties do anything!

Just remember everyone, it is at the discretion of the moderation team whether it is allowed or not. I can't recall anyone being banned for overstepping the mark the first time - bans and/or warnings are generally only handed out to people who don't take note of our friendly reminder of the T&Cs and/or then proceed to PM us with abuse.

While I am on my pedestal, please don't get offended if we delete a post. If you want clarification on why your post was deleted, send the mod who deleted the post a polite PM and they will happily explain why.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

By my counting, in the last five days at least nine people have died on NSW roads (including two pedestrians). That’s a remarkable number.

It seems that in a good number of these crashes, deaths resulted from people not bothering to observe laws in either spirit or practice. I’m far from convinced that simple “solutions” like further lowering of speed limits or more cameras, will change much.

In my humble opinion there is not enough police presence on our roads for deterrence of law breakers, our road population has grown, I don't think the police have kept pace.
It is also a political debate when it comes to financing our police force, simply put, not enough police presence through lack of finance.

[.:4:.]

Just my opinion, but yes i agree that if there is a police car on every corner hardly anyone would do the wrong thing on the road. Yes it sucks getting the letter in the mail, but thats a lot easier to deal with then getting pulled up and getting asked if you know why you were pulled over. So in my opinion cameras are a reactive approach. Yes demerits and such will take licences away, but the offence has already been done by then.
Sorry for the rant.

[simon varley]

in Victoria, if you receive multiple camera offenses in a short time period, you can void the later ones. This is because, in their words you 'deserve the opportunity to learn and correct your behaviour'. The problem with this, is that for a couple of weeks you've still been speeding, or whatever, and still been presenting a 'risk'. Immediate tickets by the cops however, clearly invoke an immediate change in behaviour.

[prydey]

Changing laws only affects those who follow the laws.

Those doing the wrong thing will continue to do so.

A bit like lifting interest rates to curb spending which only hurts the people that aren't doing the spending... But that's another thread.

Those making the rules are too heavily influenced by the revenue and not by the loss of human life.

[MITCHAY]

The govco recently spent a couple of million to install traffic lights rather than make it left-in left-out since it already loops around to an existing traffic lights a couple of hundred metres down the road which of course are not synched. Already been a t-bone

To set the scene this particular road rises up and down around a bend into the sun. You can't see the lights far out because of the trees unless you know what to look for.

Any significant traffic and ripe for a massive crash. That's before you get to the roos that jump out

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

Changing laws only affects those who follow the laws.

Those doing the wrong thing will continue to do so.

A bit like lifting interest rates to curb spending which only hurts the people that aren't doing the spending... But that's another thread.

Those making the rules are too heavily influenced by the revenue and not by the loss of human life.

Must be pretty chilly in hell today because this is one of those few things where we share an opinion

[falcon_bandit]

https://www.********.com/video/kuF4LCD8AdKu/

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by Itsme

Not surprise with higher road tolls with many drivers these days with poor driving skills and ignoring basic road rules.

I couldn't agree more.

With 25 years experience in the industry, serious focus need to be moved to driver education and attitude.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

I couldn't agree more.

With 25 years experience in the industry, serious focus need to be moved to driver education and attitude.

I don't spend a lot of time on the road admittedly but from my experience poor driving isn't unique to new drivers. I wouldn't even say it's the majority. Again, from my experience, the worst driving I see is from those on open licences, and often older drivers.


Here's a question.

How many people would drive differently if they had a police officer in the passenger seat, or if there was a police presence nearby?

If you answer that you would drive differently, ask yourself why? Are you someone that can't work unless supervised? You need someone watching to make sure you obey the rules.

Driver behaviour won't change while there is a general lack of respect for authority. And that won't change any time soon.


So while driver education and rule enforcement is important, it's general attitudes that are the problem. Society today is selfish.

[pottery beige]

Imports are shocking drivers.

Had one of them pull up halfway around a roundabout the other day to let another import in.

wtf

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by prydey

I don't spend a lot of time on the road admittedly but from my experience poor driving isn't unique to new drivers. I wouldn't even say it's the majority. Again, from my experience, the worst driving I see is from those on open licences, and often older drivers.


Here's a question.

How many people would drive differently if they had a police officer in the passenger seat, or if there was a police presence nearby?

If you answer that you would drive differently, ask yourself why? Are you someone that can't work unless supervised? You need someone watching to make sure you obey the rules.

Driver behaviour won't change while there is a general lack of respect for authority. And that won't change any time soon.


So while driver education and rule enforcement is important, it's general attitudes that are the problem. Society today is selfish.

Who saying it is only new drivers?, my comment was for all drivers in general and I'm quite sure LTDHO is saying the same.
If there was police presence nearby don't tell me most people's attitude would not change, they would.
We all also know there is bogan attitude out there, has always been and will be.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

I don't spend a lot of time on the road admittedly but from my experience poor driving isn't unique to new drivers. I wouldn't even say it's the majority. Again, from my experience, the worst driving I see is from those on open licences, and often older drivers.


Here's a question.

How many people would drive differently if they had a police officer in the passenger seat, or if there was a police presence nearby?

If you answer that you would drive differently, ask yourself why? Are you someone that can't work unless supervised? You need someone watching to make sure you obey the rules.

Driver behaviour won't change while there is a general lack of respect for authority. And that won't change any time soon.


So while driver education and rule enforcement is important, it's general attitudes that are the problem. Society today is selfish.

Its not so much I have an issue with authority, I want to know the reasons behind why they're the rules.

Like why do I have to do 40 in a road works zone when there's no road works, because its on an adjacent road?

There's no reason for the main road to be down to 40, so if there's no police there and no workers, I'm not going to do 40 because I don't see a reason for it.

'Because those are the rules' just isn't good enough, and don't expect me to follow them if thats how you behave.

No different to work, have a customer who makes you sign onto their sites, online, then another sign on on another platform, and then sign on their book.

So I do one and not the other two, why do you need me to sign in three times on your site? Give me the reasons why.

Never read our SWMS and I'm the guy at the company who is responsible for enforcing them, to the point where I've sent them to 30x different customers and only one of them has actually read it and asked me why something irrelevant to the project was in there - it just shows you how its just there to tick the box.

I'm not going to read 11 pages of bullshit, for the sake of reading 11 pages of bullshit - just sign here on the bottom and put the date on it.

We're also not supposed to wear short sleeves and shirts, but I'm not going to enforce it in hot weather on the guys unless customer representative shows up on site. Just keep them in the car, if someone shows up put em on, when they leave take them off.

There's rules and then there's rules - its more about how you play the game than actually doing the right thing.

If you've got a legitimate reason for why something is then I'm happy to hear it and follow the rule book, if its 'just because' then **** you and your rules I'll do what I think is right.

If its not hurting anyone then who cares if we're a bit flexible for the sake of things working well.

I don't think there's a legitimate case for fines circa 10km/h over the speed limit having an impact on road safety - which in Victoria are the vast majority of camera fines.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I don't think there's a legitimate case for fines circa 10km/h over the speed limit having an impact on road safety

They'll of course argue that there is. One of the pre-eminent Aus roads safety researchers found crash risk doubles every 10kph over the speed limit. The only problem is that he cherry-picked his data and analysed it in such a way as to show that relationship, but when re-analysed with a more complete dataset, another statistician found that relationship didn't hold true. What a surprise.

But even if it did hold true, so what? Double the crash risk is still 2x of stuff-all. The risk of you dying in a crash, doing average km each year, is once in several lifetimes worth of driving. It's frankly nonsense to be being policed over it.