"Win on Sunday, sell on Monday".. Still relevant?

[prydey]

there is no way the race or race result generates any 'new' fans, or sales. 'swinging' voters aren't going to be swayed by some motorsport event.

any holden or ford fans at the track were holden and ford fans already!

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by WMD351

Are Ford and Holden really in a viable business anyway or only propped up by taxpayer dollars ?

Well next year, Holden and Ford are going to ask the Bathurst organisers to make it the Bathurst 990. The 10 less kilometres is quite marginal, but going by the governments flimsy criterias these days, it will allow both to get rebates from the "Green Car Fund", for any expenditures on the race.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

there is no way the race or race result generates any 'new' fans, or sales. 'swinging' voters aren't going to be swayed by some motorsport event.

any holden or ford fans at the track were holden and ford fans already!

True but I can see some of those Holden fans going out and buying a new Commodore because Holden won.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by jpd80

True but I can see some of those Holden fans going out and buying a new Commodore because Holden won.

prydey is right, its not going to sway the ford loyalists or the swinging fans. But it migth get the holden faithful (most of which are bogans lets face it) back into teh showroom. Fact is holden is DESPERATE to win this race and be successful in v8sc generally because of this very fact. THey can't win over teh intelligent buyers (for obvious product/image reasons) but if they can get the simpletons to come to the showrooms it was worth it...after all there is a large number of the buggers! I don't discredit their strategy but its worth remembering when peopel on here slag off on ford for 'not investing' or 'not marketing' their successes at bathurst/v8sc. Fact is brand loyalty or whatever the holden faithful go bananas for a racing win....ford guys don't. I'm not 100% sure its because the ford guys are smater and know the race cars have diddly to do with the road cars (though they probably are) but i do know the holden guys buy on IMAGE, NOT SUBSTANCE!. So they care when holden wins because they think it enhances their car and diminishes the others. Its all rubbish, as those of us that watch motorsport well know, but it works for the small johnson brigade.

I'd love a Ford to win bathurst as much as the next ford guy, but i've always suspected its for a very different reason to why the holden faithful want their guys to win. Something to do with simple things amuse simple......

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by buggo_gt

I think it's only relevent when Holden wins. For example, a mate of mine rang me up and said looks like we won again, why don't you sell your Ford and get a real car blah blah blah having a stir. I said o well next year. He said you said that last year. I'm like what we won last year, and the year before and the year before that. He didn't know and just assumed Holden had.
The point is, he isn't a car enthusiast like us, and sees 'Holden 1-2-3' on the news. Thinks 'Holden must be the best'.
We got into this whole discusion about how the Race cars are pretty much the same thing underneath, and share nothing but the lights of real cars pretty much.
He didn't know this, and thought they shared parts of the real cars from Holden/ Ford.
Let's assume he represents the Australian car markets opinion on these two cars, it's no doubt why Holden stills leads and flogs Falcon in sales, because their arrogance leads them to not question Holden, and rather go get facts just assume that it's the best car going and has won Bathurst forever.
'What Skaify drove a Skyline before he was Holden. No way talk ****.'

Hadn't read this post at the time i made mine above. Pretty damning example of what i aluded to. Scary stuff your mate said there buggo. If all the holden faithful are like that no wonder they outsell us.....

[Boss 302]

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

nope, those track weapons have nothing in common with the cars in showrooms

I have not read the whole thread, but will continue after posting this.
Wait till they share the control "chassis" as in nascar, further away again I think.
The only thing they will share with a road car is the " sillouhette", hope I spelled that right.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by buggo_gt

We got into this whole discusion about how the Race cars are pretty much the same thing underneath,

Ah, NO. I think you may be confused with NASCAR?
The cars are mostly specific to their brands, being initially developed from the road cars by Holden and Ford.
Obviously they are HEAVILY modified from the original road cars, and the teams and developers can then make further changes (within the rules.)
The VE and FG bodies have been modified to maintain compliance with existing specifications, as they were otherwise longer than their predecessors. (That’s why the “back doors” are shortened.)

Obviously, these are race cars, and are radically different to the street cars, just as they have been since the early 70’s. Good thing too, I’d hate to see the mess they would make in street cars, and I don’t want to see some bogan driving a 700kw commode down my street.

Back to the question. The Holden v Ford Rivalry does generate interest in the sport, and that’s good for the sport. I think the same rivalry does impact sales, and I think the competition does promote the idea of FPVs and HSVs as performance vehicles. However I don’t believe there is a direct correlation between results and sales.
IF, say Ford cars became less competitive in general over several years, then that would start to tarnish FPV’s reputation, but it would be a slow process.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

prydey is right, its not going to sway the ford loyalists or the swinging fans. But it migth get the holden faithful (most of which are bogans lets face it) back into teh showroom. Fact is holden is DESPERATE to win this race and be successful in v8sc generally because of this very fact. THey can't win over teh intelligent buyers (for obvious product/image reasons) but if they can get the simpletons to come to the showrooms it was worth it...after all there is a large number of the buggers! I don't discredit their strategy but its worth remembering when peopel on here slag off on ford for 'not investing' or 'not marketing' their successes at bathurst/v8sc. Fact is brand loyalty or whatever the holden faithful go bananas for a racing win....ford guys don't. I'm not 100% sure its because the ford guys are smater and know the race cars have diddly to do with the road cars (though they probably are) but i do know the holden guys buy on IMAGE, NOT SUBSTANCE!. So they care when holden wins because they think it enhances their car and diminishes the others. Its all rubbish, as those of us that watch motorsport well know, but it works for the small johnson brigade.

I'd love a Ford to win bathurst as much as the next ford guy, but i've always suspected its for a very different reason to why the holden faithful want their guys to win. Something to do with simple things amuse simple......

Good post and this is why dismissing the effect V8SC racing has on people is short sighted.
Holden fans are aware of the difference between road and race cars but unlike our brand,
those people actually go out and buy more of the highly profitable V8 Utes and V8 sedans.
It is those people that the race caters for, they go and enjoy the fact that each Holden
race car embodies their hopes and dreams for the brand to do well in motor sport.

It's also a compelling case as to what is wrong with Ford sales in Australia and the huge
disconnect that exists between FoA sales and V6 I-6T supporters that don't buy as many new cars.
Ford needs to get these lapsed V8 and I-6 T supporters back in their new products.

While "Race on Sunday, sell on Monday" may be a slogan that has no place for the majority of
car sales in this country, it is still important to the people who buy V8s over at team Red.
The fact that Holden still has an SS Commodore while the XR8 sales have slipped so badly
shows just how much has changed for Ford V8 sales yet the XR6T and G6ET have stayed flat.

"Race on Sunday, sell on Monday" is only important to one car company in Australia - Holden.

[pottery beige]

the outcome of a race makes me want to run out and drop $80k on a car.... nup......

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

the outcome of a race makes me want to run out and drop $80k on a car.... nup......

exactly my point but you do not represent the type of people Im speaking about,
there are people who will go out and buy a new V8 Commodore because it did win Bathurst.

We can honestly say that won't be the case for Ford/FPV - they will buy for different reasons
one of which is the new S/C V8.

With a run out V8 SS, that figure may be just $41,990.....

[4Vman]

The kind of people who go out and buy a car because of a race result buy VN SS's....
They are NOT new car buyers..

That person, over time though may develop an affinity with a brand and aspiration to own a new car one day... in effect the birth of "brand loyalty"..

There will be flow on "brand loyalty" but today's results may not bare fruit in a new car sale for 10 to 20 or even 30years...

The Holden brand loyalty we see today is a result of the "Brock effect"..... The difference is though back when Brock was in his peak he was racing a modified road car that people could in some way relate to..

That relationship is now lost.

I'm not sure we'll see a "Lowndes, Ambrose or Skaife effect" in 20 years...

[Bearman]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

This old chestnut gets wheeled out every time "they" win Bathurst yet for some inexplicable reason Toyota and Mazda lead the sales race yet have never won there.

Also Fords sales never seemed to increase despite the 2006/7/8 "3peat"...

Is the "Great race" still relevant to the showroom anymore??

Not particularly. The only people interested are us car nuts and we all know the difference between what's on the track and what's in the showroom. It's preaching to the converted.

It's a little bit of positive publicity at best if they want to exploit it but it's nothing like it was in the heyday when Ford and Holden dominated the car market. Now they're fighting over not much more than crumbs.

But at the end of the day Bathurst is still Bathurst, the holy grail of Australian motorsport. I'll still rejoice when Ford wins and spew when Holden does. Until the day I die......

[Scott]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I'm not sure we'll see a "Lowndes, Ambrose or Skaife effect" in 20 years...

I'm not sure either - but a fact is that neither Ford or Holden are sure enough to roll the dice either.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by HSE2

It’s relevant for company pride and image. Its symbolism and bloody expensive at that.

I agree, its about the feel and aurua that surrounds the brand. Its just another notch on the belt so to speak. It gives the company a very good reason to advertise more and bring positives.

Yes it has nothing to do with the cars we drive, it has all to do about image. The swingers, who are the important buyers, would rather be associated with a successful company.

[JPFS1]

There'd me more relevance if Today Tonight did a story on a Falcon NOT being a lemon than a Falcon winning Bathurst.

There comes a time when investment dollars are pulled from certain aspects of advertising when there is little or no return. We can consider the affects of 'brand image' etc, but what happens when there is a shift in what appropriate image means in the common market place?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I agree, its about the feel and aurua that surrounds the brand. Its just another notch on the belt so to speak. It gives the company a very good reason to advertise more and bring positives.

Yes it has nothing to do with the cars we drive, it has all to do about image. The swingers, who are the important buyers, would rather be associated with a successful company.

Motorsport appeals to a hard core minority.
The average person doesnt relate to motorsport..

FPV's marketing and image needs are far different to Fords, FPV's audience is 1 tenth of Fords...

To appeal to the "mums and dads" or "bread and butter" volume FORD need to be more prevalent at main stream events like the cricket, tennis, football codes, etc..
Motorsport is largely the domain of FPV, but not exclusively.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

To appeal to the "mums and dads" or "bread and butter" volume FORD need to be more prevalent at main stream events like the tennis, football codes, etc..
Motorsport is largely the domain of FPV, but not exclusively.

Ford were involved with Tennis and pulled their involvement... mmmm

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Ford were involved with Tennis and pulled their involvement... mmmm

True, but they maintained the cricket which is probably a far better level of exposure.

[barra240t]

I'd rather see Ford spend money on other things, which seems to be happening already.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

True, but they maintained the cricket which is probably a far better level of exposure.

Agreed, and possibly a more appropriate audience too.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Agreed, and possibly a more appropriate audience too.

Yep, cricket would probably be the most generic televised family sport, good exposure for Ford.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

We can consider the affects of 'brand image' etc, but what happens when there is a shift in what appropriate image means in the common market place?

anyone driving a falcon or commodore is now automatically branded a 'bogan' by those who choose to drive other marques. i find it frustrating but its not something i can control.

holden don't seem to care which type of person follows their brand whereas ford seem to be trying to get away from the 'motorsport' image, to a more sophisticated family type image. thats just my take on it.

also, australia and holden have a much stronger affiliation than ford can ever hope to achieve. i think ford would do well to concentrate on their own product and not get caught up in the sales race. i think they should change their marketing and ignore holden and aim their cars at toyota, honda etc.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by prydey

anyone driving a falcon or commodore is now automatically branded a 'bogan' by those who choose to drive other marques. i find it frustrating but its not something i can control.

holden don't seem to care which type of person follows their brand whereas ford seem to be trying to get away from the 'motorsport' image, to a more sophisticated family type image. thats just my take on it.

also, australia and holden have a much stronger affiliation than ford can ever hope to achieve. i think ford would do well to concentrate on their own product and not get caught up in the sales race. i think they should change their marketing and ignore holden and aim their cars at toyota, honda etc.

Probably a pretty fair assessment!

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Motorsport appeals to a hard core minority.
The average person doesnt relate to motorsport..

FPV's marketing and image needs are far different to Fords, FPV's audience is 1 tenth of Fords...

To appeal to the "mums and dads" or "bread and butter" volume FORD need to be more prevalent at main stream events like the cricket, tennis, football codes, etc..
Motorsport is largely the domain of FPV, but not exclusively.

Obviously, but the point being that for the mums and dads that don't care which brand they buy would you not try your upmost to put a positive/winner mental note in the back of their minds?

If what you say is true then why did ford afaik only advertise the xr6 during Bathurst, a waste of money going by your theory. This car is aimed at exactly those people.

Agreed motorsport isn't the most effective, but a subliminal message is promoted by ones success.

[Ben73]

I heard the Holden and Ford V8 Supercars are very very similar these days. Even using the same engine parts or suspension or something?

Perhaps they should get cars straight out of the showroom and onto the track, make it more interesting.

[T3ts50]

Originally Posted by prydey

there is no way the race or race result generates any 'new' fans, or sales. 'swinging' voters aren't going to be swayed by some motorsport event.

any holden or ford fans at the track were holden and ford fans already!

True, but what about in 20 years time?

I belive the term should now be win on Sunday sell in 10-15 years time. As the younger generation (who are not influenced by their parents) start getting into the V8's, I reckon whoever is winning now might have a bit of an influence on what they are driving in 10 years time.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by T3ts50

True, but what about in 20 years time?

I belive the term should now be win on Sunday sell in 10-15 years time. As the younger generation (who are not influenced by their parents) start getting into the V8's, I reckon whoever is winning now might have a bit of an influence on what they are driving in 10 years time.

And what sort of investment is viable for the 10 V8 sales they'll be selling per annum in 20 years time?

[FNQracing]

Ford's brand image comes more from TAXI's dragging exhaust systems through the suburbs and drivers with bad BO than it does from Motorsport.

Most would probably want to distance themselves from that image as much as possible.

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I heard the Holden and Ford V8 Supercars are very very similar these days. Even using the same engine parts or suspension or something?

Perhaps they should get cars straight out of the showroom and onto the track, make it more interesting.

Try doing bathurst in your straight off the showroom floor vehicle, wouldn't be many if any left at the end of the race. There is a couple of categorys that do have this sought of thing, one being the GTP series (which no one seems to support considering lack of knowledge about it) and the V8 Brutes series (which is so-so in popularity).

Motorsport isn't about trying to sell cars anymore, a lot of marques use it for development purposes (in different international categories) but there is nothing in a V8SC that Holden or Ford can use on their road going cars that have been developed using this category.

I disagree that this motto "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" has any relevance to todays motorsport climate.

[flappist]

I, for one, am quite happy that the majority see no connection between Bathurst and road cars.

A few years ago there actually was a connection between Bathurst and road cars and one journalist wrote a story about it.

Wanna buy a Phase 4?

Almost every XR/FPV made is quicker than a Phase 4 GTHO and all it takes is for some idiots to run another beat up and the red & green loony tune mafia will stuff it for us again, probably for ever.

I am very happy that FPV have chosen smaller more fuel efficient lower carbon footprint fluffy eco friendly renewable climate unchanging engines over those antiquated inefficient overcapacity eco vandalistic harp seal murdering dolphin culling ice cap melting bowtie wearing jurassic park dwellers that some other mob use.