Vfacts September 2019 - Page 3

Dr Smith · 08-10-2019, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

I’m hoping that a severe lack of sales will force a change of policy with Ford that while Ranger can sell with premium prices, there’s no point in pricing regular vehicles like they’re BMWs

I'm hoping the same because one day someone at HQ will decide for them and it won't be pretty... and if you sell at BMW prices aussies will only buy the BMW...

jpd80 · 08-10-2019, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I'm hoping the same because one day someone at HQ will decide for them and it won't be pretty... and if you sell at BMW prices aussies will only buy the BMW...

I think Ford is “fishing with the wrong bait” and by that, I mean that
Toyota, Hyundai and Kia, already have the “vanilla “ mass volume
affordable vehicles covered in spades. If Ford and Holden want to
count as something different and special, well then they need to
adopt a different design strategy, maybe performance hybrid that
gives 21st century muscle car like performance with guilt free
fuel economy.

Dr Smith · 09-10-2019, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

I think Ford is “fishing with the wrong bait” and by that, I mean that
Toyota, Hyundai and Kia, already have the “vanilla “ mass volume
affordable vehicles covered in spades. If Ford and Holden want to
count as something different and special, well then they need to
adopt a different design strategy, maybe performance hybrid that
gives 21st century muscle car like performance with guilt free
fuel economy.

It's so co-incidental what you have posted, last night I jumped onto Carsales and set some parameters for a potential 2019 built SUV, awd-only, with
Power: miniumum 175kW,
Economy: 9L/100Km or less economy and the choices were
Land Rover
Lexus
Porsche
Volvo
with the Lexus "cheapest" at $102,000 drive away...

Incresae the minimum power to 200kW and you lose Lexus.

Now whats the output of Ford's new 3.0L V6 Ecoboost hybrid...237kW and under 9L/100Km in the new Explorer.....

Brazen · 09-10-2019, 09:54 AM

I think Ford is in a good position, they have the product to push them through, still want to see them overtake Hyundai.

I reckon dual cab sales will eventually collapse due to diesel and car makers being too short sighted to not plan petrol or hybrid alternatives. Wouldn’t surprise me to see Ram do well as they have a decent petrol.

jpd80 · 09-10-2019, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

It's so co-incidental what you have posted, last night I jumped onto Carsales and set some parameters for a potential 2019 built SUV, awd-only, with
Power: miniumum 175kW,
Economy: 9L/100Km or less economy and the choices were
Land Rover
Lexus
Porsche
Volvo
with the Lexus "cheapest" at $102,000 drive away...

Incresae the minimum power to 200kW and you lose Lexus.

Now whats the output of Ford's new 3.0L V6 Ecoboost hybrid...237kW and under 9L/100Km in the new Explorer.....

Most certainly, Ford heard all the “complaints” and
is responding in a big way, the toy shop is open
thanks to Bronco Raptor and the Amarok thingy....

All those who pysd and moaned about the 2.0 diesel,
Start saving.....

hayseed · 09-10-2019, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Wouldn’t surprise me to see Ram do well as they have a decent petrol.

that's My thoughts Too......

Vesper Martini · 09-10-2019, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

It's so co-incidental what you have posted, last night I jumped onto Carsales and set some parameters for a potential 2019 built SUV, awd-only, with
Power: miniumum 175kW,
Economy: 9L/100Km or less economy and the choices were
Land Rover
Lexus
Porsche
Volvo
with the Lexus "cheapest" at $102,000 drive away...

Incresae the minimum power to 200kW and you lose Lexus.

Now whats the output of Ford's new 3.0L V6 Ecoboost hybrid...237kW and under 9L/100Km in the new Explorer.....

Yes Impressive vehicle love to see it here, but what would you expect to pay for the Hybrid explorer here? north of $150K id say

csv8 · 09-10-2019, 12:21 PM

A friend of mine just bought a Laramie 1500, diesel. $30k cheaper than a Landcruiser Sahara. Dodge might be onto something.

jpd80 · 09-10-2019, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

A friend of mine just bought a Laramie 1500, diesel. $30k cheaper than a Landcruiser Sahara. Dodge might be onto something.

Make sure it’s the latest version of the VM Motori diesel
As the pre YM20s tend to go ding without warning..

naddis01 · 09-10-2019, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

A friend of mine just bought a Laramie 1500, diesel. $30k cheaper than a Landcruiser Sahara. Dodge might be onto something.

The only problem with the 1500 diesel is it only has marginally more torque but less power than the petrol while using more fuel and you can't tow 4.5T like the petrol. The only benefit is the increased gcm.

csv8 · 09-10-2019, 01:58 PM

Bigger means better, right? If Aussie sales of converted American-based ‘trucks’ like RAM are anything to go by, the old adage might just be true.

We can’t seem to get enough of the oversized dual cabs down under.

RAM, like HSV’s converted Chevrolet Silverado and, potentially, the Nissan Titan, is here to fill the void for those who think something like a Ford Ranger or Toyota Hilux is a bit too small.

According to VFACTS, the demand is certainly growing, with the monthly data revealing RAM is outselling brands such as Alfa Romeo, Peugeot and Jaguar.

Read next: 2018 RAM 1500 Laramie 4x4 review

The figures equate to 1960 sales this year to date, or an average of 219 sales per month so far in 2019.

The rate of progress is seeing RAM’s year-on-year increases sit at around 200 percent compared to the corresponding month in 2018 (although it is admittedly coming from a low base).

A spokesman for RAM Trucks Australia claimed that our domestic dual-cab market is a particularly competitive one, but one which has shown headroom for bigger and more expensive metal.

“It’s a vehicle [RAM] Australians want – the sales figures reflect that demand.”

To keep up with the conversions, Walkinshaw Automotive’s re-manufacturing facility in Clayton, Victoria, is ramping up the production line.

“There are three shifts, and an extended production line, to increase capacity and meet demand.”

Read next: RAM 1500 EcoDiesel arrives in Australia

The most popular model is the smaller RAM 1500, which is powered by a 5.7-Litre Hemi V8 with 291kW/556Nm and can be purchased for less than $80,000 in base trim.

Fuel economy isn’t the aim of the game here (there’s a 121-litre tank to keep you truckin’) but what you can pull behind it is.

One justification for the shift to bigger utes is that they are “full-size American pick-up trucks” with heavy-duty towing capacities and an 845kg payload. https://www.facebook.com/WheelsAustralia/

Franco Cozzo · 09-10-2019, 02:02 PM

Surprise surprise that people are willing to pay for a ute that can actually fit humans in the back and moves itself with haste when you push the throttle for $80K

Vesper Martini · 09-10-2019, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

The only problem with the 1500 diesel is it only has marginally more torque but less power than the petrol while using more fuel and you can't tow 4.5T like the petrol. The only benefit is the increased gcm.

The diesel wouldn't use more than the petrol V8 surely?

quick search below shows 3.6L/100 difference in favour of the Diesel
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Powe...00&srchtyp=ymm

2020 eco diesel promises to be even better

jpd80 · 09-10-2019, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Surprise surprise that people are willing to pay for a ute that can actually fit humans in the back and moves itself with haste when you push the throttle for $80K

What’s even more surprising is that thousands of buyers each month
pay over $60k for 4x4 dual cab utes, so no surprise that some buyers
want more room/ size with a full sized pick up, an area that used to be
owned by landcruiser Ute.

Bossxr8 · 09-10-2019, 02:32 PM

219 a month? Ranger, Hilux and Triton sell around that many in 2 days.

naddis01 · 09-10-2019, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

The diesel wouldn't use more than the petrol V8 surely?

quick search below shows 3.6L/100 difference in favour of the Diesel
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Powe...00&srchtyp=ymm

2020 eco diesel promises to be even better

Just going off the Australian ratings and the Ram Facebook groups I am a part of. 9.9L/100 for the 3.5T petrol and 11.9 for the diesel. Real world might be a bit different but going off Facebook the Ram petrol isn't much worse than my Ranger.

You also have to factor in the extra $10k for the diesel. Not worth it in my opinion.

Dr Smith · 09-10-2019, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Yes Impressive vehicle love to see it here, but what would you expect to pay for the Hybrid explorer here? north of $150K id say

I don't know however later on I'll look at the US price for a similarly specced Mustang to the locally available product and do a similar multiplication factor and see what I get, not scientific but it's better than nothing...of course what should I allow for the "Australia Tax"....plus I'm assuming it would be factory rhd, which it wont :(....or maybe compare US and Aussie prices for a Jeep GC.

One point to note is in the US they sell about 15,000 Explorers a month with the all-new model only out a short time and approx a little over 6,000 Mustangs a month on average.

prydey · 09-10-2019, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

A friend of mine just bought a Laramie 1500, diesel. $30k cheaper than a Landcruiser Sahara. Dodge might be onto something.

Depends what you want to use it for. For towing heavy stuff, LC is better rated. RAM is handicapped by max rear axle load rating.

roKWiz · 09-10-2019, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Depends what you want to use it for. For towing heavy stuff, LC is better rated. RAM is handicapped by max rear axle load rating.

I find it funny how a much bigger vehicle with a longer wheelbase, bigger HD Dana rear axle can be rated less than others but there you go.

jpd80 · 09-10-2019, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I find it funny how a much bigger vehicle with a longer wheelbase, bigger HD Dana rear axle can be rated less than others but there you go.

It's the way their vehicles developed in the USA, Class 2 is split in two, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_classification)
the 1500s are in 2A subject to CAFE and thus restricted to 8,500 lb (3,863 Kg) GVWR.
Part of that concession for better fuel economy is taller rear axles and lighter weight.

I think that was all about protecting the 2500s from the feds going after them
with fuel economy targets.

au2000 · 09-10-2019, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

219 a month? Ranger, Hilux and Triton sell around that many in 2 days.

true, however seeing they are converted here and not shipped across already converted that's not bad numbers.. ive said it before, if I was looking at a twin cab that's where my money would go,
even my son who likes the ranger has said when the time comes for him to buy his own twin cab he would look at the Ram too

prydey · 09-10-2019, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I find it funny how a much bigger vehicle with a longer wheelbase, bigger HD Dana rear axle can be rated less than others but there you go.

It would be in RAM's best interest to upgrade the axle ratings. The capabilities of the ute are likely easily up to the task. For whatever reason, be it rear suspension or chassis, the rear axle limit is around 1770kg last time I looked. It's seriously handicapping it. LC200 is around 1950kg and 79 series is 2300kg. If RAM could lift this rating it would be very beneficial.

RAM also gets gvm derated to 4490kg so that it can be driven on a car licence. So the hardware is more than capable.

naddis01 · 09-10-2019, 09:53 PM

Rear axle rating of the Ram 1500 is 1770kg. GVM is 3450kg.

The GVM of the Ram 2500 is 4490kg.

jpd80 · 10-10-2019, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

It would be in RAM's best interest to upgrade the axle ratings. The capabilities of the ute are likely easily up to the task. For whatever reason, be it rear suspension or chassis, the rear axle limit is around 1770kg last time I looked. It's seriously handicapping it. LC200 is around 1950kg and 79 series is 2300kg. If RAM could lift this rating it would be very beneficial.

RAM also gets gvm derated to 4490kg so that it can be driven on a car licence. So the hardware is more than capable.

It's much easier to de-rate a 2500 than to re-engineer an upgraded 1500.

Some manufacturers like Ford have a heavy duty tow package for their F150,
I think that allows up to 13,200 lbs (~6,000Kg) towing so maybe room there
to accommodate our market with special packages/manufacturers approvals

**russellw** · 10-10-2019, 01:39 PM

The graphical stats for September have been uploaded now.

Vesper Martini · 10-10-2019, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

Just going off the Australian ratings and the Ram Facebook groups I am a part of. 9.9L/100 for the 3.5T petrol and 11.9 for the diesel. Real world might be a bit different but going off Facebook the Ram petrol isn't much worse than my Ranger.

You also have to factor in the extra $10k for the diesel. Not worth it in my opinion.

Depends who's driving it I guess. there's a few guys on here get better economy from their petrol territories than I do from My diesel..

9.9L/100 from any Ram. diesel included is driving like Nana

agreed though at $10K extra its not worth it, especially if they can tow that much