Which compact SUV to buy?

[perrys]

Thank you all for your feedback, I will keep you guys updated.

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by Twinpiston

Also have a look at the Dodge Nitro, awsome exterior and interior plus has a diesel option.

CX-7 = thirsty machine, TT gets better economy than that and it is a 2.3T v's 4.0T

Another for the Dodge Nitro, looks wicked, Diesel, RWD + selectable 4WD

[outback_ute]

Originally Posted by It'sTheVibe

You might also consider the KIA Sorento. From memory they hold their value better than any other Korean import, and now come with a 196kw 3.8l V6.

Ad in the local paper has these for $33k driveaway!

[JBomb3000]

After having a look at a few more dealers today i want to change my vote to a V6 RAV4 Cruiser, i was very surprised how much room they actually have in them. Classy interior and very well packaged, probably not as practical as a territory but still pretty good. Add a 200kw V6 and it will eat anything else in it's class i would imagine.

[GS608]

What about a Jeep Liberty, they're pretty cheap..and go hard offroad, i read an article about how the I-6 Jeep engine was the most environmentally friendly and economical engine around..the only problem is, those things have pretty expensive repair costs. otherwise great little cars, too bad it was superseded by that clunky V6

[QualityCounts]

Originally Posted by JBomb3000

After having a look at a few more dealers today i want to change my vote to a V6 RAV4 Cruiser, i was very surprised how much room they actually have in them. Classy interior and very well packaged, probably not as practical as a territory but still pretty good. Add a 200kw V6 and it will eat anything else in it's class i would imagine.

The US market has the V6 version from Japan from the launch of the current 3rd gen Rav4 a year and a half ago. The amazing thing is that fuel consumption in the V6 is not much different from the 4 cyl. The best storage space in the Rav4 is the under deck storage. You could easily store a trolley full of groceries there. 200kW in a 1650kg vehicle equates to a power-to-weight ratio of 121kW/kg and makes the Rav4 V6 the most powerful compact SUV available here.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by meg

Cant go past a toyota Kluger, they have good power from the V6's they have reliability and resale over most on the list, they are comfortable even with 7 adults on board and they look good. Would love to drive the rav 4 v6 when it comes out but feel it is still too small to be practical as a 4X4 soft road vehicle.

Kluger is a medium not compact SUV. And if you wanted a Kluger you would be better getting a Territory - better interior space, better driving dynamics (more car-like=fun to drive), lower operating costs for 2WD (NRMA), better primary and secondary safety (WASP and ANCAP).

[JBomb3000]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Kluger is a medium not compact SUV. And if you wanted a Kluger you would be better getting a Territory - better interior space, better driving dynamics (more car-like=fun to drive), lower operating costs for 2WD (NRMA), better primary and secondary safety (WASP and ANCAP).

Kluger is fair bit smaller than a Territory, it's certainly no bigger than some other cars on his list. I actually looked at a RAV4 and a kluger side by side today and it's barely bigger than the RAV. Apparently the new kluger due towards the end of the year is bigger than the outgoing model and a much close match to the territory size wise.

[Tles]

Jeep Patriot is the sister of the Dodgey Nitro.

[It'sTheVibe]

....................... Length Width Height

Rav4................. 4600 1815 1695
Kluger................4690 1825 1680
Territory.............4856 1898 1714
Tribute...............4400 1785 1770
CX7...................4680 1872 1645
X Trail................4510 1765 1675
CRV...................4520 1820 1680
Outlander...........4640 1800 1720
Sorento..............4567 1863 1810
Grand Vitara........4470 1810 1695
Forester..............4485 1735

And by way of comparison:

Landcruiser.........4890 1940 1890
Patrol................5050 1940 1855
Hummer H2.........4821 2062 1993
Hummer H3.........4782 1989 1872

All dimensions are in mm, and where more than one model is available, it's for the base or most common model.

Sorry 'bout all the ......, but couldn't get it to format correctly.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by It'sTheVibe

....................... Length Width Height

Rav4................. 4600 1815 1695
Kluger................4690 1825 1680
Territory.............4856 1898 1714
Tribute...............4400 1785 1770
CX7...................4680 1872 1645
X Trail................4510 1765 1675
CRV...................4520 1820 1680
Outlander...........4640 1800 1720
Sorento..............4567 1863 1810
Grand Vitara........4470 1810 1695
Forester..............4485 1735

And by way of comparison:

Landcruiser.........4890 1940 1890
Patrol................5050 1940 1855
Hummer H2.........4821 2062 1993
Hummer H3.........4782 1989 1872

All dimensions are in mm, and where more than one model is available, it's for the base or most common model.

Sorry 'bout all the ......, but couldn't get it to format correctly.

Note the greatest width in the Territory (apart from large SUVs) which translates into hip and shoulder (and cargo) room. Many claims of "5 seats" are in reality 4 1/2 seats because of a narrow second row. When shopping for an SUV test this out by taking 3 adults and sitting them in the second row - or try fitting a baby capsule and 2 child seats in the second row. Territory is one of the few that provides 3 true full-size seats in the second row. I would say no compact SUV and few medium SUVs provide a full 3 seat second row.

Leg room is another issue. Again Territory has more in drivers row in particular. Australian design has a lot of benefits.

[perrys]

New kluger is much much bigger, so I dont think I will buy it.
......................Inches............mm
Overall Length: 188.4.............4785
Overall Width: 75.2................1910
Overall Height: 69.3...............1760
Wheelbase: 109.8..................2789

Source: http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm...r-hybrid-debut

[meg]

there has to be a cheap runout model!

[QualityCounts]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Note the greatest width in the Territory (apart from large SUVs) which translates into hip and shoulder (and cargo) room. Many claims of "5 seats" are in reality 4 1/2 seats because of a narrow second row. When shopping for an SUV test this out by taking 3 adults and sitting them in the second row - or try fitting a baby capsule and 2 child seats in the second row. Territory is one of the few that provides 3 true full-size seats in the second row. I would say no compact SUV and few medium SUVs provide a full 3 seat second row.

Leg room is another issue. Again Territory has more in drivers row in particular. Australian design has a lot of benefits.

Also check out the transmission tunnel. It's very uncomfortable to be sitting in the centre of the second row seat when you have to raise your feet on the high transmission tunnel. The Rav4 has a flat floor.

[Mikey]

Here you Go!!! I drive the F6 my wife drives the territory Non turbo. (didnt know the Turbo was coming, bugger!) I can say that i love driving the Terri. Its a great car. My mate has an escape and its a fargon piece of cheeeep crap. Luxury edition as well. The Territory without any bias opinions is a fantastic all round SUV. Its right in between the models you've listed and a full blown 4WD. It handles like a sedan with excellent comfort, room to move and all the goodies plus more. Just test drive one after all the others. You'll notice the4 difference. When we purchased, we were looking at top of the line Land Rover Discovery and Toyaota Prado. I drove a mates top line Prado from Perth to Syd. I can say with hands on eperience, you wont be dissapointed in a Territory. And they look mad with a great set of mags...

[Mikey]

And if you opt for the 3rd row of seats and make 7 seater, you can actually fit adults i the 3rd row with some comfort and leg room. Even a Landcruiser struggles...

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by QualityCounts

Also check out the transmission tunnel. It's very uncomfortable to be sitting in the centre of the second row seat when you have to raise your feet on the high transmission tunnel. The Rav4 has a flat floor.

When you only have half a seat for the middle seat you have your knees squashed together, which means a transmission tunnel (if you could call the small bump that) would get in the way. If you have a full-width seat as the Territory does your feet are comfortably in their natural position on either side as I observe my passengers doing without complaint or discomfort.

Most people only keep their knees together when they're in church, in the middle back seat of a Toyota or when resisting the advances of a Toyota salesman.

[mustang70]

i voted the grand vitara,i like the styling, maybe not ultra modern and interior is 'suzuki', standard and a little cheap looking but they're good value for money and can handle it off road, have been through some rough stuff in one and it went well, dont they come standard with diff lock? (might be wrong)
suspension is nice and firm

i just think they're good value and a little 'harder' than the 'soft roaders'

[Deadman]

CX-7 probably. Although the Tribute Luxury V6 is available out there for a bargain price (could easily get one for under $35k) with the equipiment list it has (and pretty fuel efficient V6). Much better value than the Ford Escape Limited model (both high spec versions), looks much better inside to - the Escape has that crappy off-cream interior, the Mazda looks much nicer. Outlander would have to be in the mix for a test drive to though.

[PHATXR8]

Pajero 3 door

[AU-MUSTD]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Note the greatest width in the Territory (apart from large SUVs) which translates into hip and shoulder (and cargo) room. Many claims of "5 seats" are in reality 4 1/2 seats because of a narrow second row. When shopping for an SUV test this out by taking 3 adults and sitting them in the second row - or try fitting a baby capsule and 2 child seats in the second row. Territory is one of the few that provides 3 true full-size seats in the second row. I would say no compact SUV and few medium SUVs provide a full 3 seat second row.

Leg room is another issue. Again Territory has more in drivers row in particular. Australian design has a lot of benefits.

Most people only put two in the back seat and one in the seventh to keep all the kids seperate and there sanity intact without kids fighting so i see zero benifit there. If your going to carry 7 full adults around on long trip's so they dont get uncomfortable then l would suggest doing what most inteligent people would do and hire a mini bus. Also the territory is well renowned for it's bit's and pieces falling off quicker than a maple tree in autum. Yes it's a great designed car but not everyone wants there car spending half it's life at the dealers.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by AU-MUSTD

Most people only put two in the back seat and one in the seventh to keep all the kids seperate and there sanity intact without kids fighting so i see zero benifit there. If your going to carry 7 full adults around on long trip's so they dont get uncomfortable then l would suggest doing what most inteligent people would do and hire a mini bus. Also the territory is well renowned for it's bit's and pieces falling off quicker than a maple tree in autum. Yes it's a great designed car but not everyone wants there car spending half it's life at the dealers.

Our back seat's regularly full of 3 people, each with their own full-sized seat. The cargo area is for luggage with extra people there only when 2nd row full. Most people I know do it that way. If you have young kids and you know the preschool circuit you will know there are plenty with a baby in a capsule and two others in child seats. You can't fit this combination in most compact and many medium vehicles - except mainly the Australian and European designed ones.

I like to drive a surefooted car not a minibus (for safety reasons as well as driving pleasure) - the Territory delivers on that need handsomely. And it doesn't fall to bits or spend time at the dealers, sorry to disappoint you.

I forgot to add that with the RAV4 the lack of a transmission tunnel in the 2nd row floor is not due to the tunnel being suppressed but because the floor is raised. Yes you have a flat floor but you don't have any wells for your feet. You sit in an uncomfortable knees raised position without thigh support. Wonderful on long journeys.

[QualityCounts]

Originally Posted by new2ford

I forgot to add that with the RAV4 the lack of a transmission tunnel in the 2nd row floor is not due to the tunnel being suppressed but because the floor is raised. Yes you have a flat floor but you don't have any wells for your feet. You sit in an uncomfortable knees raised position without thigh support. Wonderful on long journeys.

The flat floor is a superb design. I remembered the Civic two generations ago already had a flat floor. With a flat floor, it's so much easier to load passengers in the rear seats. The Rav4 and the Territory have almost the same ground clearance. So the floor in the Rav4 is definitely not purposely raised to achieve a flat floor. Why do you need wells for your feet? There's not much water to collect these days! Also if you have sat in the rear seats of a Rav4 you'll be amazed at the amount of leg room.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by QualityCounts

The flat floor is a superb design. I remembered the Civic two generations ago already had a flat floor. With a flat floor, it's so much easier to load passengers in the rear seats. The Rav4 and the Territory have almost the same ground clearance. So the floor in the Rav4 is definitely not purposely raised to achieve a flat floor. Why do you need wells for your feet? There's not much water to collect these days! Also if you have sat in the rear seats of a Rav4 you'll be amazed at the amount of leg room.

I have sat in the back seat of a RAV4 because I gave up trying to fit in the drivers seat so it seemed to be the second best thing to try. 95% of my car travel is as a driver so when they fit a steering wheel in the back seat I'll buy a RAV. As I said, the back seat (which seems to get its space at the expense of the front) is very much knees up. The footwell is for feet not water, so that thighs rest on the seat and you don't have to use muscles to support them during a journey. Do I have to go through the ergonomic principles of seat design? You have an uphill battle selling Toyos on a Ford forum QC - try the pitch on a Toyota forum! But I give you credit for persistence.

[JBomb3000]

Originally Posted by new2ford

I have sat in the back seat of a RAV4 because I gave up trying to fit in the drivers seat so it seemed to be the second best thing to try. 95% of my car travel is as a driver so when they fit a steering wheel in the back seat I'll buy a RAV. As I said, the back seat (which seems to get its space at the expense of the front) is very much knees up. The footwell is for feet not water, so that thighs rest on the seat and you don't have to use muscles to support them during a journey. Do I have to go through the ergonomic principles of seat design? You have an uphill battle selling Toyos on a Ford forum QC - try the pitch on a Toyota forum! But I give you credit for persistence.

Are you talking about the current model RAV or the old body style as then new one is a fair bit bigger i'm 6'3" and 95kg's and i had no trouble with room in the front

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by JBomb3000

Are you talking about the current model RAV or the old body style as then new one is a fair bit bigger i'm 6'3" and 95kg's and i had no trouble with room in the front

No, current one. It is bigger but I'm same dimensions as you - maybe leg length is different? I find my knees jammed under steering wheel/column, likewise in Prado and Kluger. In the Territory I have some 15cm clearance between my knees and the wheel, makes a hell of a difference when driving as well as not feeling you'll be kneecapped in an accident. The biggest joke is the Yaris - I've never been able to try one because I can't even get my legs past the steering column to sit down! I'm surprised the Japanese haven't learned after exporting to world markets for, what, 40 years or so?

[JBomb3000]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

Another for the Dodge Nitro, looks wicked, Diesel, RWD + selectable 4WD

Ok so i went down and drove one today, this is what i thought.

EXTERIOR
First impression was it looks a little taller and narrower than from the pics i looked at, probably emphasised by the relativley high window line, front and rear were as i expected. It's a love it or hate it sort of style and personally it works for me. The 20" rims look great and really don't look that big on the nitro, i would hate to see a stocker with the 16" wheels.

INTERIOR
The interior looks good but is poorly put together, the materials feel cheap and things like the indicator stalks feel like they would break very easily. It's fairly poorly designed inside as well no where near as practice or user friendly as a territory. The driving position is also very compromised, you sit way to high and upright which wouldn't be such a problem except the the steering wheel is only adjustable for height not reach, meaning that when your sitting where you can comfortably reach the pedals the steering wheel is just a little bit to far away. Keep in mind i'm 6'3" so i would imagine this would be even worse for shorter people.

DRIVE TRAIN
This is where the Nitro really shines, the 2.8L CRD is an absolute corker, in a higher state of tune than in it's wrangler or cherokee applications it makes 130kw and 460nm, coupled to the 5 speed auto it makes an excellent unit. The engine is smooth, quiet and pulls very strongly right off idle till about 3500 RPM. It will happily go to the 4500 RPM red line but forward progression becomes less rapid than bellow 3500 where the meat of it's torque is. The auto is fantastic as well shifting with smooth precision every time weather it be a full throttle upshift on the red line, a forced down shift using the manual mode or just regular driving in traffic it remained smooth and composed the whole time, never once did i think i wish it had have dropped a gear there or held one a bit longer it really is fantastic. To get a auto to work this intuitively with a diesel engine is a fantastic effort IMO.

RIDE/HANDLING
Given the fact that it has 20's i was expecting the ride to be some what compromised by this (although it has a 50 profile tyre which no doubt helps) but if anything it's actually the other way being a little on soft side. It will pitch and roll a bit when thrown around but nothing to excessive considering what it is, it also looses a bit of composure after hitting big bumps. What it needs is a little more body damping but as it sits now some degree of handling is traded off for comfort. Steering feel is not great either but once again for a vehicle of this type it's acceptable. The ESP also does it job well.

OVERALL
It has a fantastic engine and transmission, love or hate looks, acceptable ride and handling dynamics but is badly let down by it poorly though out and constructed interior and compromised driving position. I can probably deal with the crappy interior but the driving position i'm not so sure about.

My head says Territory but my heart says Nitro.

[new2ford]

Looks like this needs to be added to the list:
http://www.motoringlife.ie/cs_landrover0207.htm

(Do I detect a touch of Territory in the styling?)

[Tles]

I suggested this earlier and drove a TDiesel on Saturday - very impressed. Big enough, comfortable and forgiving ride, good handling, decent offroad ability - all in all tempting but only cheap against a X3 or the likes.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by JBomb3000

... interior looks good but is poorly put together, the materials feel cheap ...
... driving position is also very compromised...
... the 2.8L CRD is an absolute corker...auto is fantastic as well...
...ride a little on soft side. It will pitch and roll a bit... it needs is a little more body damping... Steering feel is not great either ...
...love or hate looks...but is badly let down by it poorly though out and constructed interior and compromised driving position...

My head says Territory but my heart says Nitro.

Nice write up JBomb and pretty much what I was expected from a US car. All looks and grunt and the rest rather so-so.

If I didn't already have a Territory and was shopping again today a LR Freelander would definetly be on the short list. But why oh why didn't they call it a Land Rover 2 (LR2 for short) like just about everwhere else it didn't sell well originally :