The I6 is to go, will this make you look away at other options for your new car??

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Originally Posted by jakkes

how good would it be if it was the other way round U.S.A drop the v6 and start using our I6 and developing if further now that would be sweet
but typical yank way of thinking there better then every one else
i doubt that will ever happen

Yeah that would be awesome jakkes. If a bunch of Ford Aus tinkerers on a small budget can build an engine that (on paper at least) outclasses the global V6, why not put some real r&d muscle behind it? BMW are building euro 4 compliant inline 6 screamers right now that put out the same power as the alloytech with one litre less displacement, so its not like the alloytech is going to reach a development ceiling anytime soon.

Of course, common sense is a lot to ask of a company that bleeds billions every year and still builds sedans based on a 1989 ladder chassis design, isn't it?

[NEEDspeed]

The key words that stood out to me regarding the global posititon of ford were "Common base components". That set off alarm bells frankly. I would not (certainly didnt in the past) buy a large sedan with fwd. Engines and chassis/driveline parts sharing from ANY american vehicle I think wouldnt be all that refined or smooth which is important to some (evidence in this forum). Also I can imagine the pressure would be on to simply transplant a FWD V6 front end from some yank bus and aus. engineers design the back end and call it a "Falcon".

Yuk!!

Anyway, I love the I6 engines. BMW have some incredible facts and figures from theirs and the big 4.0l is a strong performer tweaked or untweaked.

My 2c....

[PepeLePew]

I'd be interesting if one of the large manufacturers (well in our terms) COULD have a diesel offering and make it more financially viable than many current imported diesel offerings.

I recently did the sums thinking about new wheels and payback on diesel just doesnt make a great deal of sense for a user/chooser lease arrangement. Payback is just too far 'out there' with the premium most are asking for their diesel variants.

Bring that down to earth and a CR turbo diesel would make my shortlist easily.

I'd miss the L6. Its combination of decent torque and V8 like driving ease makes a nice drive at my old age At there is no sarcasm in that statement. Push the juice and there is lazy grunt everywhere. I'd hope any new engine ISNT like the new Holden V6.

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by fordowner

Im just disappointed that the traditional I6 motor COULD be be put to an end, not to mention 600 jobs COULD be lost.
The I6 to me is what makes the Falcon unique. PLUS its Australian made!
So soon its going to have an imported motor and gearbox huh? But...alas, times change and I understand why they would make such a move.
I just feel like Ford Australia cant get out of being the under dog, lower sales than the opposition, dropping home made products, needing government help, management problems etc.
cant they make ALL new I6 motors LPG/diesal then? be the leader in fuel change? oh thats right.. the cost.

Exactly. The Australian government supplied Ford Australia millions of dollars to keep production of the local I6 engine going. If they stop production of the I6 and import V6 engines, the important questions are what will happen to Geelong and the unemployed people, not whether the imported V6 engine will be any good or if we will buy it.

I will never buy a Falcon with an imported V6 engine because there is no justifiable reason to stop production of the local I6 engine.

FF

[EX-Y494]

I'll alway stick with a ford no matter what under the bonet.
And what Falcon freak said there is no justifiable to stop production of the local I6 engine.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

I will never buy a Falcon with an imported V6 engine because there is no justifiable reason to stop production of the local I6 engine.

Declining market share, increasingly tougher emissions requirements and decreasing ROI are major reasons why its isnt viable. You might not agree, but you arent the one running a corporation that is turning losses worldwide. It makes perfect sense for Ford to rationalise their products.

[clontarf_x]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

I'd miss the L6. Its combination of decent torque and V8 like driving ease makes a nice drive at my old age At there is no sarcasm in that statement. Push the juice and there is lazy grunt everywhere. I'd hope any new engine ISNT like the new Holden V6.

My sentiments exactly. Of the cars I have driven (6 cyls) I haven't found any that really have "on tap" kind of pulling power. The 6 is a non-revvy, grunt generating motor which is suited perfectly for the falcon (after all, that's why it's been used for over 30 years!). Every other 6 I have driven either need revs or just dont have anything at all.

If the V6 is a go-er, it needs to have exactly the same characteristics as the L6, otherwise I am going to have to buy a V8...

Wait that might be a good thing... (goes and finds his 250kw)

[XR8Master]

What is with all this diesel diesel diesel propaganda crap ? do any of you actually know anything about it ? If I where President/Prime Minister/King/Shogun/Fuhrer I would ban diesel, it is a terrible product which poisons/pollutes the enviroment in a much more dramatic way then unleaded and people need to open there eyes and realise this.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by b0son

Declining market share, increasingly tougher emissions requirements and decreasing ROI are major reasons why its isnt viable. You might not agree, but you arent the one running a corporation that is turning losses worldwide. It makes perfect sense for Ford to rationalise their products.

Are you freakin serious??

The Falcon Inline6 has more than paid for itself and was funded by Ford Australia and in part by the Australian government.

This is a blatant stab in the back by Ford NA.

Ford Australia has been left alone to do it's own thing for the past 40 years, funding it's own platforms, components and engines and has survived even though Ford NA wont give them export access.

Ford Australia is practically a seperate company and has more often than not turned a healthy profit.

On a shoestring budget Ford Australia has developed a world class car while Ford NA has wasted billions of dollars.

Every time Ford NA interferes with Ford Australia they fruk things up!

Ford NA kept pushing for a stretched 626 as the basis as a new Falcon which led to a rushed development of the EA.

They wanted to introduce "edge" styling which led to a AU largely rejected by the buying public.

They wanted Ford to investigate FWD for the Falcon which led to a rushed AU.

They brang in the Taurus and nobody bought it.

Why can Ford Australia, Ford Europe and Mazda build such brilliant succesful cars but Ford NA always fruk up? There isn't a lack of technical skills remember Ford Australia often uses the powertrain centre in Detroit.

I'm sure there is plenty of use for a bulletproof and torquey straight six.

What about SUV's and the F series trucks???

What about Jaguar?

Ford Oz went to Jaguar for help in developing the Barra I'm sure they can use it.

What about a BMW rivalling large RWD Ford based on the Falcon for Ford Europe?

What about a mazda 9?

I think sadly Ford is a company run by accountants while if they showed some balls they could be Mazda on a huge scale.

I remember a really good quote:

"Take care of the customers and the business will take car of itself"

[Badcooky]

I will buy the last model with the I6 in it when the price drops for the new model release.
I don't give a toss what's next the BA/BF look brilliant and there's a heap of HP untapped in the I6 motor.

[jakkes]

we all should send the head of ford USA some of our thoughts
good letters with good points
no emotion bullshit letters they don't listen to those

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by b0son

Declining market share, increasingly tougher emissions requirements and decreasing ROI are major reasons why its isnt viable. You might not agree, but you arent the one running a corporation that is turning losses worldwide. It makes perfect sense for Ford to rationalise their products.

Declining market? The VE Commodore sales are up on 2006 and that is only with a new sedan model. When the VE wagon and VE ute are released this will improve again. Plus the new Toyota Aurion will sell in excess of 20,000 cars which will be the first time Toyota Australia has achieved that milestone with a locally manufactured six cylinder car. The market for large six cylinder cars still exists.

Increasingly tougher emissions? Euro III compliance was the big one. The step from Euro II to Euro III is much larger then Euro III to Euro IV. The VE Commodore and Daewoo Captiva use the same engine but the VE is Euro III compliant whereas the Captiva is Euro IV compliant. If the Barra I6 can meet Euro III then Euro IV is an achievable target. Don't believe what the Ford spin doctors are saying. There is a company in Melbourne's northern suburbs who are working on the 2010 I6 engine and their system will be Euro IV compliant.

Decreasing ROI. If Ford wasn't always late they wouldn't be in such a precarious postion. The Barra engine is relatively cheap to produce as a lot of the investments have been ammortised years ago. Plus the government ACIS grants make the situation even better. If Ford is pocketing the ACIS money instead of investing it into the local product then the government and us tax payers should absolutely schitt can Ford.


This decision (if what the media says proves to be correct) is nothing more then corporate arrogance. Unfortunately for Ford Australia they are losing their autonomy and are increasingly being dictated to by the parent company. As Sleekism said in his post, the US have done nothing to assist Ford Australia. Most of their input/decisions have actually undermined both the Falcon and the Ford brand in Australia. They keep fruking things up! :evil3:

The Falcon is the last bastion of the Australian automotive industry. If it is terminated before its time then they can forget about me as I will no longer support Ford. Ford then ceases to have any association with Australia and just becomes another insular US corporation.

FF

[nikos]

Why is everyone going on about the bottom end torque? Wouldn't a 4.0lt V6 with same bore & stroke make similar numbers and torque curve?

The best thing about the I6 is the smoothness, no V6 will ever be as smooth. The falcons and beamers that I have driven are smooth as, commodores and magnas are rough as guts, vibrate and sound like crap.

[EFIwindsor]

I think replacing the I6 with:

[edit] TwinForce
A direct-injected, twin-turbocharged version of the all-aluminum Duratec 35 has been developed, producing 430 hp (321 kW) and 400 ft·lbf (542 N·m) of torque. The TwinForce 3.5L V6 is intended to deliver the performance (on demand) of a typical large displacement 6.0 L-class V8, with the normal driving (highway) fuel efficiency of a 3.0 L to 4.0 L class V6. [1] [2]

Gasoline direct injection more precisely manages fuel flow into the cylinders, for more efficient combustion and emissions control, when compared to port injection. Twin-turbocharging forces more air into the engine on demand, allowing additional fuel to be injected and burned, producing more power: 118 hp (88 kW) per liter in the case of the Twinforce.

Technologies for the twin turbocharging system were developed in cooperation with Volvo Cars, and the gasoline direct injection system is a joint development between Ford and Bosch based on Bosch DFI systems already in production.

The engine is also capable of operating on any mix of E85 ethanol and premium gasoline, and makes its debut in the Lincoln MKR concept coupe/sedan, introduced at the 2007 North American International Auto Show.

Would be a good option

[EvilChief]

i dont believe that the I6 will disappear too soon, considering the amount of money spend on developing it during the Barra developments.

[RPO83]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Are you freakin serious??

The Falcon Inline6 has more than paid for itself and was funded by Ford Australia and in part by the Australian government.

This is a blatant stab in the back by Ford NA.

Ford Australia has been left alone to do it's own thing for the past 40 years, funding it's own platforms, components and engines and has survived even though Ford NA wont give them export access.

Ford Australia is practically a seperate company and has more often than not turned a healthy profit.

On a shoestring budget Ford Australia has developed a world class car while Ford NA has wasted billions of dollars.

Every time Ford NA interferes with Ford Australia they fruk things up!

Ford NA kept pushing for a stretched 626 as the basis as a new Falcon which led to a rushed development of the EA.

They wanted to introduce "edge" styling which led to a AU largely rejected by the buying public.

They wanted Ford to investigate FWD for the Falcon which led to a rushed AU.

They brang in the Taurus and nobody bought it.

If people think Ford Australia do all the groundwork for each Falcon evolution they are totally mistaken, we don’t have all the resources or the skills necessary in Australia to be autonomous.

I don’t recall FoNA constantly pushing for the 626 (Capricorn) project to take the place of EA26. From my understanding it was an effort by FoA and Mazda who at the time were more than enjoying working together sharing their respective knowledge. As for your comments about the ‘edge’ design, that was the total responsibility of FoA and their attempts to broaden their consumer base. The Taurus imports were originally intended for the Japan market only but David Morgan and other executives decided to bring it here as well. It was not a plot by FoNA to wipe out the Falcon, it was a decision made by Australian execs to add customers, not take them away from existing product.

[Falcon Freak]

The lease on my current car ends in early 2010 which lines up with the last Falcon model to be made with the local I6 engine (as the V6 will be introduced in the 2nd half of 2010 to coincide with the introduction of the Euro IV requirement).

If I decide to choose this model for my next lease it will be the last Ford I buy. If I don't then I have already purchased my last Ford product.

Ford can go get frucked! :evil3:

FF

[russellw]

I'm usually happy to side with tradition but in this instance I am going to take the counterpoint.

The reality is that we are talking about an engine here that has barely changed in basic configuration in over 40 years. Yes it has changed capacity and had some more modern technology added over the years but it has had a good innings and has now reached the use by date.

The I6 engine faces two major problems:

1. It is built in a plant that is considerably down on manufacturing efficiency compared with modern ones and thus the unit production cost is considerably higher than it needs to be. FoA should have been looking at positioning themselves to build variations of the V6 a decade ago in much the same way that Holden did with their new engine plant which would have provided them with export volumes to offset our relatively small production numbers.

2. The I6 engine is an inefficient packaging option for anything other than a Falcon sized vehicle and one of the keys to survival for FoA will be to have a viable mid sized option within the next 5 years that can share some componenetry with Falcon.

I'm not suggesting that FoA have done a bad job with the I6 engine - they have done a superb job with very little money in making it as good as it currently is but the same engineering skills would be applied to any newer range of engines and we could expect that the performance and economy targets that are currently being set for 2010 and beyond would be met.

Yes, we will miss the old nail as it has served this country well but you can only keep throwing money away on something that has no real future for so long.

Cheers
Russ

[Macca23]

I just been converted from the 3800 to the I6, dohhhh im a bit slow hahaha

wonder bout the value of my bf m2 xr6 will be with a new motor change in the next model!

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Macca23

wonder bout the value of my bf m2 xr6 will be with a new motor change in the next model!

Not a lot - it's not exactly a GTHO. I doubt it would have much impact.

[Bipolar]

From The Australian today:

"FORD Australia will announce the closure of its 82-year-old engine-making plant today.

Creating a new political headache for the Howard Government over the car industry's future just months from the federal election. The decision by Ford to stop manufacturing six-cylinder Falcon engines at its Geelong factory in Victoria by 2010 and shift to imports will cost 600 jobs.

The Australian understands a further 600 jobs could be at stake at the company's Victorian Broadmeadows plant as Ford seeks to contract out part of its assembly and fleet maintenance work as well.

Ford's move, after many millions of dollars of Howard government grants, raises questions about the long-term economic future for Australia's car industry, with consumers shifting to smaller, imported cars in the face of rising petrol prices. The company, however, is expected to argue today that its big impediment is the massive start-up investment that would have been needed in Australia to produce thousands of low-emission engines for the next-generation Fords."

[tapeworm]

Originally Posted by EBFalcs

they will have to ditch the current trans ratios, if there's no low down torque.

Yeah thats what I thought, there should be a loss of torque you'd reckon. It better be a bloody good v6 which it will be no doubt. Hopefully they continue the xr6t

[Nikked]

Dropping the I6 doesn't sound to bad once you get over the loss, think about how much money it would take to rework the I6 more fuel friendly, and work in diesel versions? Starting from scratch means all new capacity, design. And possible world wide use, meaning that this could save the falcon....

[Nikked]

...and lets see the I6 go out with a bang... wind the wick up, 400KW falcon turbo :

[SVR73]

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

If the I6 is to disappear, will this make you look more closely at other options for your new car??

The Duratec 35 was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines list for 2007, produces around 50Nm less then the Barra I6 engine (in 3.5 form), but will be available in 3800 cc's info here

Info on the I6 here

I've made the decision not to buy a new car, stick with the AU as my weekend car and hilux for every day and go back to old school again (I miss my 351C XA couple) and restore either an american or aussie 70's muscle car

[atec77]

Originally Posted by cboz

Yeah thats what I thought, there should be a loss of torque you'd reckon. It better be a bloody good v6 which it will be no doubt. Hopefully they continue the xr6t

Same motor as the courier ? if so it's quite good and the 6 speed makes it get along albiet with a few more revs , nothing like cruising around town at 1400 rpm.

[sleekism]

So we have a I6 until 2010?

Are the workers at Geelong going to be in a good mood when they build our engines if they know they are getting the sack?

Are they going to give the I6 a good run in Orion?

What if this is another fad like FWD in the 70's & 80's where everybody plays follow the leader and all of a sudden in the 90's they realise that they need RWD for a decent large cars and Ford and Holden cash in on this fact by pure chance!

BMW don't give a about fads and always stick to the proven RWD and I6 formula.

You can't seriously tell me that Ford "the truck company" has no use for a torquey and powerful straight six engine?
What about the F series and all the bloody SUV's.

If the Mustang can fit a Modular 5.4L why can't it fit the Barra?

My guess is that Ford NA said you can't have your cake and eat it too and it was either the Falcon or the Barra on the chopping block.

I only hope that Ford has a ecent V8 by 2010 otherwise I'm going to stuff it and go old school. I think a 68 Fairmont would do nicely or maybe a XE ESP.

It looks like the Typhoon is going to become the next VL Calais!

Seriouisly a big let down but I doubt cars will be any fun in 2010 the way emissions, safety and noise laws are going.

I think Orion is going to be the twilight of the Falcon.

[Bipolar]

I can see where you're coming from, and it'll be interesting to see how the next few years play out. I just hope the big knobs in FoA don't keep on relying on one good product and keep innovative throughout the model cycle, instead of mostly before it.

Originally Posted by sleekism

...I doubt cars will be any fun in 2010 the way emissions, safety and noise laws are going.

Sometimes it sounds that way, but I've heard this said soooo many times ever since I was a kid that I think that day is still a long way off.

[janddbone]

My fellow Australians.

Well done for forgetting and neglecting the time and effort Ford of Australia put into giving us a tailor made engine, that makes the Falcon the best car in Australia. An engine that can pull all day every day through hell and high water, for hundreds of thousands of kilometres. With trailer or caravan, uphill and down. With roof rack loaded and the kids and the dog. This was the one basic ingredient that makes a Falcon what it is. An Aussie six! Long live the Barra! At least the second hand ones will be avaliable for the next 30 years!

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Are you freakin serious??

The Falcon Inline6 has more than paid for itself and was funded by Ford Australia and in part by the Australian government.

This is a blatant stab in the back by Ford NA.

Ford Australia has been left alone to do it's own thing for the past 40 years, funding it's own platforms, components and engines and has survived even though Ford NA wont give them export access.

Ford Australia is practically a seperate company and has more often than not turned a healthy profit.

On a shoestring budget Ford Australia has developed a world class car while Ford NA has wasted billions of dollars.

Every time Ford NA interferes with Ford Australia they fruk things up!

Ford NA kept pushing for a stretched 626 as the basis as a new Falcon which led to a rushed development of the EA.

They wanted to introduce "edge" styling which led to a AU largely rejected by the buying public.

They wanted Ford to investigate FWD for the Falcon which led to a rushed AU.

They brang in the Taurus and nobody bought it.

Why can Ford Australia, Ford Europe and Mazda build such brilliant succesful cars but Ford NA always fruk up? There isn't a lack of technical skills remember Ford Australia often uses the powertrain centre in Detroit.

I'm sure there is plenty of use for a bulletproof and torquey straight six.

What about SUV's and the F series trucks???

What about Jaguar?

Ford Oz went to Jaguar for help in developing the Barra I'm sure they can use it.

What about a BMW rivalling large RWD Ford based on the Falcon for Ford Europe?

What about a mazda 9?

I think sadly Ford is a company run by accountants while if they showed some balls they could be Mazda on a huge scale.

I remember a really good quote:

"Take care of the customers and the business will take car of itself"

1 am with you 100%.

FF