Trends and Choices

[five 7]

No Work Horse I don't believe he is correct but possibly meaning its trivial in the big scheme of things, while we bicker over that, bigger things are at play.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by five 7

As with Covid in later part, I decided to only to go on what I witnessed first hand, no tricks, no outside influences, that still pushed me from Government narrative. Have a gay couple close to me that just gets on with life no fuss, I will back them up anytime, I have zero issue with there lifestyle.
My good friend had a daughter, which I've known since birth, at sixteen had a double mastectomy, is now Max with a moustace, you cannot tell me a sixteen year old can make a rational decision like that, one that is so life changing, a teens brain is still growing and developing, yet so called doctors and coucilers think it's all good yep now problem, don't need to include parents. Transvestite rainbow reading is in my libarys, and soon to be in yours from what I've seen in your news last night. When it's my family and grandkids it does have a effect on us. The education system are pushing it to, without any consideration to parents wishes. Time would be better spent teaching, reading, writing, arithmetic and how to budget and run a household. Leaving social engineering to the experts, being "Universities." So yes it does effect all of us. They are fooling us. Home schooling is now looking the better education option.

I'm not going to respond to most of what you've said here, five 7, as I think it will just lead to another protracted discussion which will not end up leading anywhere, however on the bit I've bolded, it's an interesting view. Not because it's controversial or anything, but what gets taught in our education system over the last 10 or 20 years has been the focus of ongoing discussion. I know several teachers, and they all feel uncomfortable with the role that society now expects them to take; taking on the role of 'parents' as many of them see it. Think about such topics as healthy eating (and policing it at school), teaching kids about their rights in terms of personal space, teaching them their rights with respect to authorities, etc. These subjects are far away from the traditional three r's that the education system used to teach. Is it necessarily a bad thing? Or a good thing? I think, like most institutionalised things it has it's benefits and it has it's down sides, too. But it is society, as a general rule, that has driven this behaviour. In my opinion, parents lost the ability, or chose not to, educate their kids about these things and so society expected that responsibility be passed to the education system to undertake.

So, where's the line with this then? When you cater for society as a whole it's going to be difficult to get that line in the exact right spot for every element of that society. Some will see it too far, and some will see it as not going far enough. Bloody difficult position to be in when you're the one making that decision; you're on a hiding to nothing no matter which way you go.

Maybe the pendulum has swung too far, and over time, it will come back into more of a 'neutral' position. Maybe it's still on it's path. Only time will tell.

[five 7]

Maybe the majority should be taking precedence over the few. The powers to be had no problem doing this with Covid.
Hey Fox I'm just a simple trades person, I just see things black and white, and want the very best for the young ones. This society to me is one big mess . Cheers mate

[blueoval]

I personally think the fact we have a left and right faction is a large part of the problem. There are pro's and con's on both sides but one thing is certain, it leads to division among the 'majority'. And division is an aspect which weakens society to ensure those who have power can control people easier.

[five 7]

But where is the moral line in the sand, Its not left or right in my view. I will play devils advocate now, I think pedophiles are getting very maligned, and there way of life is misunderstood, they just want to go about there way, doing what they do, it's not mental illness it's just the way they are. Poor things. Minor attracted people is a much better term.
let's call it what it is a mental illness, I don't think that should take presidence and have influence over normal beings. I'm at the point where feelings get hurt so be it.

[prydey]

Yep, throw out millennia of biological fact just to appease the court of public opinion.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by five 7

But where is the moral line in the sand, Its not left or right in my view. I will play devils advocate now, I think pedophiles are getting very maligned, and there way of life is misunderstood, they just want to go about there way, doing what they do, it's not mental illness it's just the way they are. Poor things. Minor attracted people is a much better term.
let's call it what it is a mental illness, I don't think that should take presidence and have influence over normal beings. I'm at the point where feelings get hurt so be it.

I read the first part of your response as being sarcastic.

Lets call it what it really is - Grooming leading to Pedophilia = not okay. The bombardment of adults preferring to parade in skimpy (Adults only) outfits in front of minors rather than adults is abhorrent. That tells me it isn't much of a mental illness but deviant, narcissistic behavior. When they are after children this is where things get more ugly.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by blueoval

I read the first part of your response as being sarcastic.

Lets call it what it really is - Pedophilia = not okay. The bombardment of adults preferring to parade in skimpy (Adults only) outfits in front of minors rather than adults is abhorrent. That tells me it isn't much of a mental illness but deviant, narcissistic behavior. When they are after children this is where things get more ugly.

I think his point was, why does society treat the way some people think as some kind of condition they were born with and they should be tolerated and accepted, and yet other people, who also have a certain mental condition are not acceptable under any circumstances.

So in one instance we need to step in for the defenceless victims but why not other instances where you could argue adults are a threat to children regarding moral standards etc. Who decides its ok to tell a child they can pick and choose their identity or gender etc.

If you speak out against society you are branded as intolerant, which is rather ironic in itself.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by prydey

I think his point was, why does society treat the way some people think as some kind of condition they were born with and they should be tolerated and accepted, and yet other people, who also have a certain mental condition are not acceptable under any circumstances.

So in one instance we need to step in for the defenceless victims but why not other instances where you could argue adults are a threat to children regarding moral standards etc. Who decides its ok to tell a child they can pick and choose their identity or gender etc.

If you speak out against society you are branded as intolerant, which is rather ironic in itself.

Thanks Rob. I didnt read it in this context but appreciate the explanation.

It sounds like double standards to me. On both sides of the spectrum there seems to be a grappling of who holds moral superiority on critical decisions like this. The human race has lost its way.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

The full show is available on iview for those brave enough to watch it all.

What's "brave" got to do with it? I've watched every episode of that excellent show and can agree/disagree/throw beer at TV. You still keep coming across as condescending, intentional or not. It's not a competition you know...

[prydey]

Originally Posted by blueoval

The human race has lost its way.

Sure has.

[George V]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

....... In my opinion, parents lost the ability, or chose not to, educate their kids about these things and so society expected that responsibility be passed to the education system to undertake.
......

Well said.

Regards,
George V

[MITCHAY]

The world has gone ****en crazy that's for sure. Even to the point that science is an opinion WTF?

The reality is most people do not actually give a ****, it's the fringes taking up all the space. I tune out as much as possible.

[.:4:.]

Too many options. It gets confusing. I will put it as simply as i can. Everyone has been to a wedding before where the meal options are beef, chicken or vegetarian. Pretty simple, nobody ponders the menu for long. In the same token most people have been to restaurants with a 27 page menu and take ages to order as there are so many options and a lot are so similar.
Yes i am a parent. Thing is, in my opinion, let kids be kids. Dont confuse them when theyre kids. If they arent old enough to understand stuff like sexual identity or whatever, just let them be kids. Other then sexual health, when i was at school they didnt teach the confusing stuff they do now. Did that mean there were no people who identify differently? No, but those people worked it out for themselves, not told per say.
I accept all people regardless, people are people. But confusing kids with things they do not yet understand just , yeah, that.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

What's "brave" got to do with it? I've watched every episode of that excellent show and can agree/disagree/throw beer at TV. You still keep coming across as condescending, intentional or not. It's not a competition you know...

I hope you don't mind, FGS, but I'm going to respond to the points you've raised in a different order than you've presented, only because I think it flows better for my answers and so I can build on them.

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

You still keep coming across as condescending, intentional or not.

Definitely not intentional at all. Apologies to all if it comes across that way. I consider myself to be a straight shooter, in that what I write is what I mean. I'm not trying to say one thing and mean another or be clever in the way I present it. Fordman1 thought I was being condescending to them in an earlier reply to their post, but I wasn't intending to be. The only thing I can think of that may have been considered condescending was this comment:

Anyway, if you're uncomfortable to discuss it, that's ok. Some people aren't and I can appreciate that.

But that was genuine from me. Anyway, I'll try not to come across as condescending in the future as that only gets people further offside anyway.

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

What's "brave" got to do with it?

What I meant by "brave" was that I thought some in here might be out of their comfort zone by watching that. A bit like someone who is afraid of heights going skydiving to challenge their fears and grow as a person. I personally see someone who does take themselves out of their comfort zone as being brave.

I hope that explains my word choice a bit better, even if you don't agree with my line of thinking?

It's a bit like my discussion with b0son. I could have ignored everything he said and just kept my line of thinking. But I like to educate myself and consider other people's views as it may just influence my own views. It's a growth opportunity. And I did learn a few things from it.

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

It's not a competition you know...

No, it's not. And I've never treated it that way at all, even if it has come across that way. I hope some of the explanation above helps you, and others, see that. I see my withdrawal from the discussion with b0son as reflecting that. If I thought it was a competition, I would have kept the discussion going until I had considered I'd 'won'.

I think it's healthy to have different points of view. That's not to say we have to agree with those points of view, but it is worth considering the way other people see things because we rarely think in exactly the same way. Imagine how boring the world would be if we did

[FTE217]

Question
The parents losing the ability mention and more so expecting school to teach the kids the amount of social issues of today…..
I cant recall seeing that memo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[prydey]

https://youtu.be/LhlXDI1JSKk

Not a big fan of Piers Morgan but a few times now he has done these interviews highlighting the hypocrisy and absurdity of some of these modern movements.

Of course some will say its just being closed minded.

Interesting to hear the notion that when young impressionable minds are fed this kind of stuff regarding identity, it's child abuse. That, I fully agree with.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by DRU842

If this is the referenced case it doesn't involve 'transgender students' according to court records: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/28/o...nty-trans.html

I can't read that article, its behind a paywall... But I can guess what its going to say and its in line with what I read since then and been updated with. The boy, according to at least his mum and probably him, didn't identify as being transgender. Which really doesn't mean anything to me, parents don't always know everything and kids lie to get out of the ****.

But even if some of the facts of the case have shifted, the core of it remains the same. A boy dressed in a skirt entered a transgender toilet (not something one would question, or allowed to be questioning at all really, not in the same way as a man entering a female toilet), raped a girl and when her father questioned the school board and got angry, they physically and forcibly restrained and removed the father who was arrested and charged with domestic terrorism.

But further reading has shown an interesting turn of developments.

The then superintendent of the school board has been charged with something and during the Grand Jury, which handed down an indictment, it was revealed that not only had he known about the rape, but he personally informed the other members of the school board and demanded they keep it under wraps and lie it ever happened or exited.

He and the entire school board lied to everyone, including to the fathers face in public, about the rape in order to progress their own personal agenda... Which subsequently caused another student to be sexually assaulted by the same boy when he was allowed to move school.

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Just throwing out here an opposite view to generate discussion, based on the comment above. Now, I'm playing devil's advocate here, and I don't necessarily agree or disagree with anything that's being stated here, by me or others.

You're considering an alternate view to yours as being brainwashing' but that's based around your beliefs, which are predominantly formed by what you've been taught (both through the education system you were in and by your family and those around you), and by what you've self learned.

It's ok, I think understood what you were trying to do and say... I enjoy playing the devil every now and then.

But I have to say I completely disagreed with it and thought it was a ridiculous argument, even before it went sideways.

Science has discovered and taught us, and I'll restrict this to humans, there are only 2 sexes based on what each one can do. One created the egg, the other fertilises it. We call these sexes a female and male. But science has only explained and defined what nature has created and intended us to be at this point in our physical and natural evolution.

What I learnt, you learnt and has been taught for thousands of years is a concept based on fact. And the fact is we have A and B and each is defined by physical and capability traits.

It's not brainwashing to put into words and and explain what nature has given us.

But it is brainwashing to teach kids and people that A can become B or vice versa if one closes their eyes tight and chants "I think I can, I think I can". It's brainwashing to throw millions of years of fact, evolution, nature, instinct and science out the window because someone says they feel funny and others are determined to pander to them.

Lia Thomas will never be a female as much as he tries to be and nothing should convince anyone that he is. The world and womens sport are a poorer place once he became allowed to compete as a female. And it specially doesn't help his case since he still cracks a hardon when looking at women in the change room.

Or maybe that makes him a transgender female lesbian... Go figure.

Originally Posted by FTE217

Question
The parents losing the ability mention and more so expecting school to teach the kids the amount of social issues of today…..
I cant recall seeing that memo.

I dont think thats the case, I see it more that there is an expectation that teachers replace parents in that side of the education.

Parents don't have time anymore, they are working 4 jobs between them afterall, and no expect teachers to fill that knowledge gap for them.

[b0son]

I think in the coming months, we're going to start to see a backlash against every man and his dog getting an autism diagnosis.

I saw a quote that said 1 in 10 boys aged between 5 and 7 is now on the NDIS

That is primarily due to the explosion in ASD diagnoses. In essence, autism is the easiest way onto NDIS now, and parents are chasing the free money. There is simply no way that amount of kids need to be on disability support.

If the rate of growth of NDIS participants continues as it has recently, it will eclipse the medicare budget within a few years. More will be spent on disability than is currently being spent on ALL healthcare........

[prydey]

Originally Posted by b0son

I think in the coming months, we're going to start to see a backlash against every man and his dog getting an autism diagnosis.

I saw a quote that said 1 in 10 boys aged between 5 and 7 is now on the NDIS

That is primarily due to the explosion in ASD diagnoses. In essence, autism is the easiest way onto NDIS now, and parents are chasing the free money. There is simply no way that amount of kids need to be on disability support.

If the rate of growth of NDIS participants continues as it has recently, it will eclipse the medicare budget within a few years. More will be spent on disability than is currently being spent on ALL healthcare........

There are many 'real' conditions that are better understood and managed these days. Until you are personally affected it's easy to dismiss the govt support but that support is improving the lives of many people. Without getting political, introducing the system was one of the best things a certain female prime minister did.

I guess what is happening is, with all the other absurdity, it is diluting the rights of those who actually have genuine health issues.

[arm79]

Given the direction of the thread I thought I might throw this link in, something I saw a few weeks back and have just found again.

Personally I find the whole thing amusing.

https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/st...235028995?s=20

Skip to 2:35 for the amusing bit. I find it amusing.

Further from my post above about the brainwashing, this is what I call brainwashing. A medical professional who advocates that A can become B, yet cant/wont/doesn't know how to treat a condition that might arise when a transgender female claims to be experience a female only emergency.

It goes further down hill shortly after when this ****wad ******* ***** makes a completely despicable remark about females not being females in an attempt to win the argument. It's crap like that that puts people against them.

Just remember that this land of the free and home of the brave allows and operates private clinics for transgender female only patients. "Doctors" are making squillions on giving pap smears to men in a dress.

Originally Posted by b0son

I think in the coming months, we're going to start to see a backlash against every man and his dog getting an autism diagnosis.

Which wouldn't surprise me. But its only because we seem to enjoy pigeonholing ourselves. We feel the need to group people into small little groups so we can tie them up in neat little bows and treat that group a particular way.

I don't understand why the need for this came about, but I do think autism is misrepresented and over diagnosed. Once when people were described as quirky or with a personality they are now autistic.

It's been suggested to me that I am on the autism spectrum. I can by shy in new social settings and sometimes find it difficult find my way and break in and I have certain OCD traits like overthinking and such. Apparently this qualifies me for an positive autism diagnosis.

But to me all this stuff does it take away the money and help from the people who truly need it. The very definition of making a rod for our backs.

[blueoval]

With regards to the NDIS, I know of people personally who are in desperate need of funding with REAL case situations. People who have serious physical and mental abnormalities and cannot operate basic chores in their personal lives, yet they are ignored and brushed off no matter how many times the parents get doctors referrals and legitimate documentation from specialists to prove so. They actually are screaming for help.

On the other hand, I know first hand of a group of people who are involved in clique networking groups who have 'clients' who are on the scheme but are using it for dubious means. These individuals are working the system to get paid a lot of money from the tax payer to accommodate clients requests that could be considered as irrelevant or non admissible.

One true first hand example: NDIS paid person is getting paid $50 per hour plus call out fee to go pick up Mcdonald's for NDIS client because it wouldn't cost the client personally to use as opposed to getting it delivered via Uber. The Paid worker then puts in said claim to NDIS manager who is a 'friend' and they turn a blind eye to the legitimacy of the request and pay it.

https://fb.watch/kce7QQij7J/

[b0son]

Originally Posted by prydey

There are many 'real' conditions that are better understood and managed these days. Until you are personally affected it's easy to dismiss the govt support but that support is improving the lives of many people.

Not least of which is the providers.

And that is actually ruining the lives of people not in the NDIS system, because the price of the vast majority of services that are now covered under NDIS is soaring. People not on NDIS can no longer afford or access the services they need.

The point of NDIS was supposed to provide support for those who physically cannot function. Instead, we are at the stage where it's offering gym memberships, sex therapists, alternative therapies, unproven therapies, and therapies for people who don't suffer an issue in that actual area, etc.

Without getting political, introducing the system was one of the best things a certain female prime minister did.

One of the selling points was that it would ultimately support the ability of the disabled to find work, leading to higher productivity than the input cost. ie. a net gain. Instead, we're seeing the opposite.

There are today over 600k NDIS participants, and that figure is growing currently at 17% per year. At that rate of growth, 1 in 10 people will be on NDIS by 2030!

Can anyone honestly say 1 in 10 people they know should be on some form of disability support?

[prydey]

How do you implement a system and prevent it from being abused?

Human nature has many flaws.

[five 7]

Originally Posted by blueoval

I read the first part of your response as being sarcastic.

Lets call it what it really is - Grooming leading to Pedophilia = not okay. The bombardment of adults preferring to parade in skimpy (Adults only) outfits in front of minors rather than adults is abhorrent. That tells me it isn't much of a mental illness but deviant, narcissistic behavior. When they are after children this is where things get more ugly.

No mate wasn't trying to be sarcastic I'm in and out of range at the mo

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by five 7

No mate wasn't trying to be sarcastic I'm in and out of range at the mo

All good mate, I misread your comment. Rob explained it to me.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by prydey

How do you implement a system and prevent it from being abused?

Run it like medicare for one thing. Every type of service covered under NDIS should have a cost cap/rebate like each type of healthcare service. If providers want to charge more than the medicare rate, the market will soon sort out what they're willing to pay what for.

Limits need to be placed on who gets what. If a treatment is unlikely to help someone overcome a deficit that prevents them from working, it shouldnt be covered. That might sound harsh, but one of the major justifications for NDIS was that it would improve the productivity of its participants. If the goal has shifted to simply make them happier, then it's a no from me. Nobody wants to do anything about the stresses in my life that will probably send me to an early grave (most people running a business can probably understand where I'm coming from on that point). Why should I be funding how much they get to enjoy theirs.

[prydey]

I'm more than happy to chip in a small amount each year to a national disability fund.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by blueoval

With regards to the NDIS, I know of people personally who are in desperate need of funding with REAL case situations. People who have serious physical and mental abnormalities and cannot operate basic chores in their personal lives, yet they are ignored and brushed off no matter how many times the parents get doctors referrals and legitimate documentation from specialists to prove so. They actually are screaming for help.

On the other hand, I know first hand of a group of people who are involved in clique networking groups who have 'clients' who are on the scheme but are using it for dubious means. These individuals are working the system to get paid a lot of money from the tax payer to accommodate clients requests that could be considered as irrelevant or non admissible.

I know someone who apparently has a condition that makes them eligible for the NDIS. This person has a fully capable husband who is retired and is paid a carers pension.

In addition to the carers pension and their own pension, they have an NDIS supplied dog to help mitigate the condition, even though she gave away her dog early in because her "condition" apparently meant she couldn't care for it properly anymore. To help care for the dog she has a support worker for 3 to 4 days a week. This carer supports the dog and helps care for our friend.

Recently they all went on interstate holidays. The husband pays for himself. The NDIS pays for our friend and her carer to travel and their accommodation. The carer has a separate room and is paid normal and penalty rates for every hour they are away from home. Yep, 24 hours a day they are paid for, even when they sleep. The NDIS pays for any outings for both our friend and the carer too.

They have collectively been on 2 weeks holidays, all paid for by the NDIS. They can't go anymore until September because the travel allowance is almost exhausted.

How this person gets NDIS support is beyond me, specially given the lacklustre condition and the fact they already have capable and paid inhome help from partners and family.

Want to see Australia for free, become an NDIS worker! "lol

[b0son]

Originally Posted by prydey

I'm more than happy to chip in a small amount each year to a national disability fund.

Many if not most people would. But we're currently chipping in a lot more than a small amount.