Police LPG Falcons = Lemon?

[Ozfords]

Originally Posted by TURBOTAXI

Thanks - as I said I am happy to be corrected.

If I read the above correctly, that means that the onus is on the individual officer to decide what is or is not appropriate on the roads, and they no doubt need to be able to defend what they do.

I still have been told that cars other than Hwy Patrol are not allowed to pursue, does anyone have a take on this?

That is the case if say for example a Rodeo, Triton, Landcruiser, Patrol or GD's car is in pursuit of another vehicle and a Highway car joins them, then the vehicle's categorised as the least practical to pursue are retired.

Other wise if the driver of the pursuing car has a real death wish and it has been determined that it is too dangerous to the public to continue the pursuit, then Police Helicopters will take over, but by then in metro Sydney a huge operation to co-ordinate road blocks would have swung into action. So even if the Police abort the pursuit chances are you going to get caught anyway.


Back on topic, the LPG cars experience trouble during high speed responses. When they are most needed. I've already explained that due to paper work constraints many cars experience cool down periods as police follow up investigations and get paperwork done at the station. Then urgent messages come over and your off racing away from the turn of the key.

From my understanding from the article in the Sun-Herald the cars need a warming up period, which they are not getting, it would be a joke to sit around warming up the gas Falc's before a urgent or high priority run.

Police need a car that doesn't need special treatment and can take abuse, this isn't blue oval bashing but reality.

Does anyone driver there e-gas BA Falcon like they've stolen it from cold?

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

yeah right...who won lemans this year?

i'd take a diesel anyday over LPG.

I dislike LPG also, petrol please! Thread about what police vehicles and LPG. I am stating I don't think either in their current form are suitable.

[Bobman]

I treated my LPG dual fuel AU EXACTLY like a police car, and it had reached 180 on numerous ocassions with heavy braking and taking off and never failed actually.

E-gas & BA = problem.

Since the BA, Ford has gone a little nuts, apart from looks though ;)

[Stoney!]

After looking through a few articles it seems that Holden will be using a company called VM motori, they are an italian company producing diesel engines. The 3.0 litre that is quoted as the one Holden will eventually be looking at putting in the commodore looks rather impressive. Packing 184kw/4000rpm and a massive 500NM at only 1800 rpm.

There is also an option of using a VGT turbocharger (Variable Geometry Turbocharger), bringing the power up to 220kw..... IN A 3 LITRE ENGINE, and diesel at that. The VGT doesn't really alter fuel consumption either, it is just much more flexible and works much better, and more efficiently.

After working with buses alot of my life, I know just how powerful, robust and fuel efficient these machines can be, specially when you think they are pulling 12 tonnes of weight around. If mercedes can come up with a 12L turbo diesel engine (for a bus) with only 185kw and a whopping 1100nm of torque from only 800rpm that can beat cars of the light (with the right gearbox setup) Diesels can't be all that bad.

Apparently this VM motori mob will be making a 4cyl diesel for the Captiva eventually also, prob release around the same time.

http://www.vmmotori.it/en/01/00/01/dettaglio.jsp?id=9 For the engine specs of the Commodore diesel

Diesels deffinatly are not all bad and are progressing by the day, In the not to distant future I can deffinatly see people hotting up a good ol oil burner for their performance, as they are robust and can handle higher boost ratings than most petrol engines can.

Stoney!

[Mechan1k]

VM Motori have been around for a few decades now ... doing a lot of work for Euorpean car makers.

[orsomxc]

My last work ute was an e-gas BA and I really had no hassles with it. Only problem was when the fuel guage sender unit stuffed up but it got replaced under warranty. Drove that ute for 70000kms.

My current work ute however, is a e-gas BF and it has been nothing but problems from the start. Has stopped itself on numerous occasions and has a couple of times kicked into limp home mode, which a gas car does not like at all.

[banarcus]

I've driven a few Egas Falcons(BAs) in high speed runs and provided that you already have a warm car and use smooth progressive throttle input(difficult to do when pursuing or on an urgent run with traffic everywhere) I've never had a drama. Couldv'e had a good one, I dont know.

As far as annoying things go, ozfords is correct with the falcons love to scrape its guts everywhere. Oh and the commodores sheer lack of low down torque.

[billyn2]

My old mans BF gas only Tradesman conked out the other day. Fuel guage had stopped working. It's only 6 weeks old. RAC guy game out to give him a tow (can't get jerry cans for gas cars yet - lol) and told him that they get callouts all of the time from new falcons that have conked out due to the fuel guage reading incorrectly or not at all.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by billyn2

(can't get jerry cans for gas cars yet - lol)

How about a bbq gas bottle lol..

[V8R]

thats exactly what you use.. a 9kg bottle and a cheater-hose

[krazy1blue]

it has to be the model my 99 AU is an x cop car come taxi and has almost 800,000 (thats right) on the clock and still does over 180 on gas/economy.been there once and it gets light.so something in the model change must be the problem.

[Iphido]

I think the majority of driveability problems exist because they aren't using a injected setup. Its just a carby. And Carbies can be flooded, ****ed when cold etc.. 30 years ago all cars were like that. Gas does make it a bit worse than regular carby petrol tho. Converters and things need to warm up to supply proper gas flow.

Ford needs to make a decent LPG engine. 11:1 compression, dual knock sensors, injected LPG, soft rev/speed/traction control limiters that use a combination of e-throttle, ignition timing and braking to provide the same function. Hook it up to the six speed auto.

Fords LPG engines are getting worse and worse. Like the drop in performance from BA MkII and BF. *LOWER* compression, worse fuel economy.

[fordy-two]

Originally Posted by 460cixy

so what was going wrong with them? no point saying the same problem related to gas with out some detail

Sorry, thought this topic was done and dusted, just back here by chance, didn't know you had replied. The problem as related to me is with the Gas Converter relays. Apparently the gas converter has 3 or 4 relays (2 on top, one on the side, one underneath ?) that develop cracks over time. This results in the engine turning over but not firing. Don't know why cracks in the relays do this - maybe moisture ingress ? Apparently you can still get the car started if you tap on the convertor with a hammer whilst turning the ignition key(RACV solution to get them going) - two man job which is why our blokes don't like it, gotta get someone out to help start the car. They've pretty much all been back to Ford. I don't know if it's been a warranty fix or recall or whatever, not my area.

[Mechan1k]

Yeah the solenoids can do this ... i am suspecting this issue with mine at the moment (stranded in driveway now) ... but NRMA came out and checked them and they are clicking open when cranking. Oh well ... it will be a tow to the mechanic in the morning when i get home from work.

[Bobman]

Water can lead to the solenoids dying prematurely.

They also burn up etc, the posts can freeze too.

[460cixy]

haqve only seen ba solinoids crack not ba also have only seen ba radiators **** them selves and **** the autos. where the au has no dramas just cheapness

[Bobman]

AU was one of the best taxi cabs in the recent Falcon model.

AU II / III were loved by operators & drivers alike, BA's on the other hand have been a nightmare, but are better to drive from a comfort point of view.

[Pinkslip]

Originally Posted by Darran

I am just going off what I am reading above...

I don't quite know what went on with this one, although from experience in Government agencies, I can suggest that one of you guys hit the nail on the head suggesting that they just go for the cheapest option. It is quite common that the cheapest usually ends up being the most expensive because of on-going performance problems, lost serviceability and contractor monitoring costs (bloody bean-counters, no common sense or practical experience in most cases).

I also have a fair idea of how these guys 'write', particularly when they have a hidden agenda. The term 'converted' may just mean that when the time came for turning the vehicles over, they 'replaced' them with factory fitted LPG, thus converting their existing fleet from 'X' to 'Y'. It is a play on words but certainly gets the attention that a political agenda needs.

Knowing that Police generally sell their vehicles for close to what they paid (because they buy them free of taxes and then sell them on the open market), it would be stupid to install LPG systems on existing petrol cars and much easier to just buy factory fitted as they turn them over. Let's face it, with their fleet, they'd be replacing vehicles every week as they hit the 40,000 km mark.

Now, can anybody think what might be wrong with my 96 XH Ute (after market Sprint LPG system) that keeps having a crap attack when I change it from LPG to Petrol????

Symptoms: Sounds like a V8 when I change over and rocks whereas when on LPG, it's smooth idling. Has conked out a few times on the petrol and there has been a loss of power when taking off, particularly when cold. I have also noticed a slight decrease in power in LPG mode form time to time, but only after the petrol started playing up more often. I have replaced the fuel filter, air filter and cleaned out the gas inlet collar that attaches to the air intake.

A mechanic told me that if I had not petrol as often as I should.....(Guilty, lost the key to petrol tank cap for 2 months and used the petrol very sparingly)......it could be that the fuel crystalised and has clogged the injectors, regulator (is there another name for that), or fuel pump. Can check these today. Does anyone know how to clean injectors (I've already tried the spitfire in the fuel tank), the old man has a compressor so will just blowing air through them do the trick?????

Any thoughts?????????