Should Ford bring back the single-piece body ute?

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

"Advertising"...where's the catchy advert showing a bit of pride in company history (utes in this case), the sort of advert that people talk about the next day after seeing it on TV...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEHFBfVGvrI

Have to give it to Holden; they do have catchy ads...

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by b2tf

No - FPV have a V8 ute. Ford don't.

Splitting straws a bit aren't we? Everytime I open the door of the GT is says 'Ford Performance Vehicle' Which part isnt Ford? The Harrop S'charger? Should have the offending Non Ford items removed

Reline ...... Have you played with this? I have ..... and after 10 minutes of playing with it I came up with this conclusion.

I would rather scare the crap out of my passengers than bore them with graphs and pretty lights.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by mik

yes the rtv was good, i don`t understand why they dropped it .

I think you'll find the RTV's suspension requirements (the front end) were not compatible with the FG's forged alloy setup (i.e. the alloy parts may not have withstood the rigours of off road use, something the FG's front end is not engineered for in any case)

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Splitting straws a bit aren't we? Everytime I open the door of the GT is says 'Ford Performance Vehicle' Which part isnt Ford? The Harrop S'charger? Should have the offending Non Ford items removed

Reline ...... Have you played with this? I have ..... and after 10 minutes of playing with it I came up with this conclusion.

I would rather scare the crap out of my passengers than bore them with graphs and pretty lights.

Well obviously buyers prefer the option of a Holden or a HSV V8 ute as they sell both, and you see a lot more of them around than the FPV utes. Round here you do anyway.

But ****** what would I know without my effing graphs and numbers.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Well obviously buyers prefer the option of a Holden or a HSV V8 ute as they sell both, and you see a lot more of them around than the FPV utes. Round here you do anyway.

But ****** what would I know without my effing graphs and numbers.

No need to get your knickers in a knot when someone points out to you that an FPV stands for FORD Performance Vehicle. Thought that was fairly common knowledge around these parts but obviously wrong.

Without you getting all silly about it (must be a touchy point apparently), yes, it is obvious that Holden sell more as you do see more and the fact that they have been selling exactly the same ute since 2006 so would expect more ..... but it could also be said that more tradesmen prefer a proper 1 tonne tray, hence why the Ford is seen used by most tradesman. It is also common knowledge that Holden has a much higher blind following than Fords, so that also can be taken into consideration.

[TheInterceptor]

Quality over quantity

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I think you'll find the RTV's suspension requirements (the front end) were not compatible with the FG's forged alloy setup (i.e. the alloy parts may not have withstood the rigours of off road use, something the FG's front end is not engineered for in any case)

Really?

That's a bit of a worry seeing the standard of road we normally drive on out here...whatever happened to the old fashioned over-engineered front ends of Australian cars from days of yore? The standard saying used to be "An Australian car needs to have the feeling about it that you could drive through a brick wall and keep on going".
Engineering something to be "just good enough" with no leeway for abuse (either intentional or just plain road wear) isn't a clever thing to do...

[flooded one]

I hate too tell anyone that thinks that HSV and Holden and Ford and FPV are two different things. there not. HSV is HOLDEN and FPV is FORD. HSV modify Holdens as FPV modifys fords. there performace partners. I've modified cars before but you dont here me selling a wildrider do you??

[FGX-351]

I personally prefer the look of the cab chassis setup, that and sports bars look tough to me.

If I were in the market(I'm not right now) not withstanding that i'm a ford loyalist, i'd be turned off with the VE for most of the previously mentioned reasons.

I'm a realist so I understand accidents happen and that one piece body is potentially an expensive fix.

The 6 cylinder engines and transmissions are uninspiring to say the least and I couldn't justify spending all that money and have to live with that.

l98/lS3 are great engines but i'd feel like I was settling for 2nd best if I didn't purchase a Miami(providing I was in the V8 market), my personal opinion anyway.

Lack of options with trays if the need for a bigger tray arose.
Holden payload isn't that great even compared with the previous VZ ute.

I consider utes to be tools for the most part and just like any other tool I buy i'd want it to be as flexible and adjustable to use as possible.

With that all said though a car is still the second most expensive purchase one could make and Holden are known to keep their pencils nice and sharp so that could always factor in.

[Bazil]

If I remember correctly at the time of the release of the FG the cost of engineering and certification of the RTV could not be justified against the projected sales.
It's a shame really as we have a BF RTV tray back at work and its the best ute to drive next to my FG R6 styleside both of which are a country mile ahead of the previous model (09) Rangers which have a much harsher ride and rubbish gearboxes. The 4x4 Ranger has been a real lemon and is constantly breaking down. All the Falcon utes from BA series 1 to the FG are totaly reliable and just get a regular oil change and filled up with gas or petrol.
The owners have been toying with a couple of VW Caddy's but we are already having issues with them. Try getting the correct oil filter at a service. Our mechanic found out the hard way that there are three different oil filters on models from the same year.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Really?

That's a bit of a worry seeing the standard of road we normally drive on out here...whatever happened to the old fashioned over-engineered front ends of Australian cars from days of yore? The standard saying used to be "An Australian car needs to have the feeling about it that you could drive through a brick wall and keep on going".
Engineering something to be "just good enough" with no leeway for abuse (either intentional or just plain road wear) isn't a clever thing to do...

How do you know they aren't engineering them to the same standards now??

Simple fact is the durability standards that need to be engineered into passenger car suspension components for off road use are at another level and add cost, weight and production complexity which would impact all variants of vehicle that depend on that platform.

You don't need goddamn smash 'n bash off road spec control arms in a passenger sedan. They did extensive outback durability testing and there are enough examples of FG's out there with high klm (many country klm) that prove they aren't some complete and utter suspension design dogs breakfast.

indeed

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

How do you know they aren't engineering them to the same standards now??

Simple fact is the durability standards that need to be engineered into passenger car suspension components for off road use are at another level and add cost, weight and production complexity which would impact all variants of vehicle that depend on that platform.

You don't need goddamn smash 'n bash off road spec control arms in a passenger sedan. They did extensive outback durability testing and there are enough examples of FG's out there with high klm (many country klm) that prove they aren't some complete and utter suspension design dogs breakfast.

indeed

Seeing what the guys do to the cars at the proving ground at lara. I know I'm not worried.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well as FPV (Ford Perfromance Vehicles) is 100% Ford owned that is what makes it a Ford.

I bought a XR6T ute because I wanted one and did not want a V8 even if it was the same price.

Now just how many Holden V8 and V6 utes have been sold this year? Obviously you must know to make such a statement.

Or did you just make it up like the previous 300 per month expert opinion......

I do know that Toyota 86s aren't being discounted..........

Well, I actually didn't have the data to prove my point so I gave up!! There is no "Performance sales for 2009" (the last full year of XR8 sales for me to gather enough data to prove my point).

However to answer your other question, Holden sold 3360 V8's utes (not including HSV's) in 2011.


http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...rticle&id=1359

[XP6]

Originally Posted by duaned

I don't see the point in these utes from Ford & Holden. They are only half of a good ute when compared to real ones such as the Ranger, Amarok, Hilux etc. They go places the Falcon & Commowhore utes will fear to tread.

There is a point... those imported utes are just "white jap utes" with a few bits of glam thrown at them, try this for a test take a dual/single cab for a 10hr drive and see how you feel compared to taking a very comfy long legged falcon for a 10hr drive... ones a buzz box the other is a cruiser.

Im not saying the white utes are no good(I have a bravo myself)as their original intended purpose a cheap *** work horse because thats all they are, these butt ugly 2Ton+ overdone glam utes need the torque of diesel to actually move and 90% would be lucky to even see any real 4x4ing, a sedan and a 6x4 trailer would do a better job for most people.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by duaned

I don't see the point in these utes from Ford & Holden. They are only half of a good ute when compared to real ones such as the Ranger, Amarok, Hilux etc. They go places the Falcon & Commowhore utes will fear to tread.

Because they are twice as comfortable to drive and don't have that awkward high center of gravity, which is a blessing on the road. Also fun for track days.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Jeddak

and why do people keep buying Toyota {anything** when there are better alternatives available??

the name says it all....

from what i've read, hilux, the most popular work vehicle, has the worst statistics (consumption, power, etc).

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

There's the small issue of Falcon ute Vs. Ranger which I'm sure Ford are still in two minds about.

i doubt falcon ute would cannibalise enough sales to damage Ranger and they are just hurting the falcon range by not having these options available.

[flooded one]

I dont know what the new petrol hilux is like but i know for fact that the old petrol hiluxs use too chew a fair bit of fuel!!

[TheSneakiness]

To answer the OP question, no, they shouldn't go to one piece body.

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by b2tf

No - FPV have a V8 ute. Ford don't.

firsty FPV stands for FORD preformance vehicles
secondly FPV is a wholy owned subsidary of which company??? FORD
the base vehicle is made by???? FORD

[Trevor 57]

Should Ford bring back the single-piece body ute?

NO!!!!!

Ask anyone who owns a Commodore single piece body ute about towing anything that weights a bit.

[Smoke Pursuit]

You guys needs to give the Ford vs. FPV thing a break. Ford have lost sales by not having the XR8... Whether it be 20 or 200 a month they are still losing out. Not many buy GS utes, they are too expensive for what they are. Maybe its not feasible to have a 40 kay V8 ute, they have chosen that path and are sticking to it.

As for ute sales being no where Ford do not push Falcon ute, they are pushing Ranger as its well known in the industry that Falcon ute is the next casualty. They don't even stock cab chassis Falcon utes anymore, just build them to order basically.

The 1 piece body thing is a waste of time, just ask any panel shop when it comes time to replace one. Many insurance companies just write VE utes off now if they require a new side panel as its cheaper then trying to cut them up and repair them.

[warpsp33d]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

You guys needs to give the Ford vs. FPV thing a break. Ford have lost sales by not having the XR8... Whether it be 20 or 200 a month they are still losing out. Not many buy GS utes, they are too expensive for what they are. Maybe its not feasible to have a 40 kay V8 ute, they have chosen that path and are sticking to it.

Perhaps once Ford get control of FPV, they should scrap the GS level FPV and re-introduce that as an XR8.

It'd be interesting to see whether that resulted in an increase, decrease or neutral number of sales.

I think if they took whatever is 'premium' out of the GS, and re-introduced it as an XR8 with an option pack to add back the 'premium' stuff, they might get some more sales out of it. I'm talking both Ute and Sedan here.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

firsty FPV stands for FORD preformance vehicles
secondly FPV is a wholy owned subsidary of which company??? FORD
the base vehicle is made by???? FORD

Can you walk into any FORD dealer & buy an FPV??? This is a problem for those that don't have access to FPV dealers!! Also, FPV's have a "premiun" price tag, FORD's do not.

[Trevor 57]

I thought this discussion was about the cab chassis Falcon ute or did I miss something

All the Falcon Utes are produced by Ford, they are not made in some random factory somewhere - move on FFS

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by warpsp33d

Perhaps once Ford get control of FPV, they should scrap the GS level FPV and re-introduce that as an XR8.

It'd be interesting to see whether that resulted in an increase, decrease or neutral number of sales.

I think if they took whatever is 'premium' out of the GS, and re-introduced it as an XR8 with an option pack to add back the 'premium' stuff, they might get some more sales out of it. I'm talking both Ute and Sedan here.

Thats the thing there is nothing premium in a GS over an XR6 asside from 19 inch alloys and a starter button.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Thats the thing there is nothing premium in a GS over an XR6 asside from 19 inch alloys and a starter button.

*cough*

Supercharger?
2 more cylinders?
FPV bits and pieces?

And as per usual a thread is derailed because of the same numptys crying that there is no XR8 ute, get over it, Ford made a business decision to drop the XR8 because it was not selling enough. No amount of crying from a small and select group of whingers is not going to change it.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

firsty FPV stands for FORD preformance vehicles
secondly FPV is a wholy owned subsidary of which company??? FORD
the base vehicle is made by???? FORD

THANKS for the history lesson. I APPRECIATE IT. As for your spelling though..........

FPV and Ford are 2 different things. As is HSV and Holden. Amazing how when it suits you guys will claim FPV's as Fords and when it doesnt you all point out the numerous differences between them.

What badge is on the actual vehicle? Hmmm? Have FPV not started badging their cars AS FPV's? To MOST people this makes them different.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

You guys needs to give the Ford vs. FPV thing a break. Ford have lost sales by not having the XR8... Whether it be 20 or 200 a month they are still losing out. Not many buy GS utes, they are too expensive for what they are. Maybe its not feasible to have a 40 kay V8 ute, they have chosen that path and are sticking to it.

No no no no no. You're making too much sense. They have not lost sales because everybody really wants a turbo and were just kidding themselves buying anything else. As for the GS being too dear for what they are, what do you mean? Surely people dont want anything other than a really fast engine? Hell, FPV or Ford or whoever it is this week that makes these cars could release them with milk crates as seats and they'd still be failing to understand why people buy Maloos over them.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

firsty FPV stands for FORD preformance vehicles
secondly FPV is a wholy owned subsidary of which company??? FORD
the base vehicle is made by???? FORD

Can you tell me the badge on the front of this please, i cant quite see it?

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Can you tell me the badge on the front of this please, i cant quite see it?
image

I believe that's a Skoda