acelleration of xr6 compared to NA skyline, supra, soarer

[TKFRD-6]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but my car does go harder then my mates supra, i have exhaust, extractors, intake and lsd, the supra beat an auto baxr6 by half a car and my car goes better than that BAXR6, these are all my mates cars so no talking it up or anything.

Ken2903, Yes my car does go down the 1/4 in under 15secs.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by ken2903

I'm sorry to burst your bubble but in a straight line,

My BA xt (intake, 4495's, cat back, 5 speed and LSD) >
> my mates NA supra (5 speed and LSD)
> his EL gli (5 speed, cam, intake, 4495's and cat back).


He owns both cars and would tell you the same thing. Actually he would say that his supra is faster than my ba, which is debatable, but its definitely faster than his el.
For the record, once these cars get moving the supra will kill them, the falcons are as aerodynamic as bricks and i won't even bother comparing their cornering abilities.



To the original poster, unless everywhere you want to go is 400m away on a dead straight, level road i wouldn't be too concerned with quarter mile times and such. If your on your P's (or will be when you get your license back) and can't get a V8 or turbo, you aren't going to notice a huge difference in straight line speed anyway.

If you want something different, relatively speaking, get a supra or skyline etc..., if you want something cheaper, comfy, and easier get the falcon. If i was your age and coming off a suspension, i'd definitely get the falcon.

As others have said, it isn't really fair to compare a falcon with the other cars. Also if it was my 10K to spend i would have a hard time finding a supra or soarer that i was happy with for that. I'm not agreeing with sleekism's opinion that imports are all crap, just that from what i've seen, the decent ones are selling for more than your budget.

I wasn't saying that they were crap but if you want performance on a budget than they are probably not the best choice.

Considering they are now 10 year old cars it will be hard find a decent ones.

My mates have tried to buy budget Skylines and Supras and been burnt.

On another note a mate spent 5 years building a RX7 and it's a rocket. Expensive ground up build though.

[XR8-260]

Originally Posted by TUFEL-6

Sorry to burst your bubble, but my car does go harder then my mates supra, i have exhaust, extractors, intake and lsd, the supra beat an auto baxr6 by half a car and my car goes better than that BAXR6, these are all my mates cars so no talking it up or anything.

Ken2903, Yes my car does go down the 1/4 in under 15secs.

I would like to see some timeslips. What does your mates supra do the 1/4 mile in?

[TKFRD-6]

i dont know, he has not run it, it is currently off the road being repaired.

[Stoney!]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

Supra use the same 2JG-ZE engine that my Lexus GS300 does, my old IS300 also the same engine was 7.7 0-100 and 15.2@97mph down the qtr, the IS300 being lighter than the supra and having a 5speed auto so expect the supra to be slower.

my GS300 has no drama's staying with BF XR6/VE SV6's and is about the weight of the supra but also has the 5speed auto.

Isn't it a 2JZ in the IS300 and GS 300 and the 1JZ was the 2.5L??

7M-GE and 2JZ-GE were two if the best inline sixes ever made.

Stoney!

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Stoney!

Isn't it a 2JZ in the IS300 and GS 300 and the 1JZ was the 2.5L??

7M-GE and 2JZ-GE were two if the best inline sixes ever made.

Stoney!

Yeah i was thinking the same thing I have never actually seen a 2JZ most Toytas and Lexuses around have the 1JZ.

Anyway I would be intersted to see a a dollar per dollar build up of a Falcon against a Supra.

[tapeworm]

It's so cheap to get your Falcon turbo'd these days maybe you could buy one and have style comfort and mammoth H/P all in one.

[The Monty]

It was the GTR that has 206kw, not the GTS-t.

[beepbeep]

theres going to be a trackday at wakefield with a couple of high powered supras on the 1st of december. heres a good chance to see what the blue ovals can do against the supras.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by streetracer23

Hi
I was wondering does anybody know a site which gives you details about the car's specs. Im after specifically 0-100 times of the following vehicles.

Ford probe
non-turbo toyota supra
falcon XR6 EL/EF (high 14s?)
skyline gts r33 (the non trubo one)
lexus sc300/toyota soarer (the NA 3.0 straight 6 engine).

i ask this basically because im about to buy a EL xr6 relatively soon and while i kno the tt supra or gts-t skyline would have faster accelleration im wondering how it would stack up against the non turbo variants which I still haven't completely eliminated from my list of possibilities.

Also are there any other 6 cylinder NA similar age and price cars that I may be missing? (forget commodore, and rare cars in australia like the a31 cefiro)

Thanks for your help.

Now... to tackle the original question in this thread...

We'll start in order...

Ford Probe...

They have a 2.5litre DOHC 24-valve V6 with 121kW @ 5600rpm and 213Nm @ 5000rpm. They're FWD and weigh 1315kg.

It could pull (best times), 7.5 seconds 0-100km/h and 15.7 seconds down the 1/4 mile when new. Averages would be in the low 8's to 100 and low 16's 1/4 though.

Next, Toyota Supra SZ JZA80

This of course has Toyota's most famous ever performance car engine in its naturally aspirated form, the 2JZ-GE. 3.0litre DOHC 24v Inline-Six. It had 166kW @ 6000rpm and 284Nm @ 4800rpm. The car weighed 1430kg. It could do 0-100km/h in 6.9 seconds and do the 1/4 mile in 15 seconds flat when new.

Next, Ford Falcon XR6 EF-EL

This, we should all be very familiar with. Good old Ford 4.0litre OHC 12v Inline-Six. 164kW @ 5000rpm, 366Nm @ 3150rpm in a 1556kg package. Most people don't give them the credit they deserve, labelling them as 16 sec cars. In reality you can get them to 100km/h in 7.5-7.6 sec and down the 1/4 in 15.5-15.6 sec... assuming car is in top notch and the driver is doing everything properly.

Next, Nissan Skyline GTS25 (R33)

These are slow. Period. RB25DE, 2.5 DOHC 24v N/A Inline-Six, without the later Neo VVT the R34 25GT had. It had 142kW @ 6400rpm and 231Nm @ 4800rpm in a 1338kg car (1380 for the GTS25t). 0-100km/h was done in 7.9 seconds and 16.2 seconds down the 1/4 mile. Easily the slowest car in this group.

Finally, Lexus SC300

These have the same 2JZ-GE found in the Supra SZ except they weigh 1618kg. And are up 2kW and 1Nm from 166/284 to 168/285. These were able to do 0-100km/h in 7.4 seconds and go down the 1/4 mile in 15.7 seconds at their peak when new.

So what does that leave us with... in order of performance...

#1. Toyota Supra SZ
#2. Ford Falcon XR6 EF/EL
#3. Lexus SC300 (aka. Soarer)
#4. Ford Probe V6
#5. Nissan Skyline GTS25 (R33)

[Disciple]

Steffo, but what about the Golf R32? It's as fast as Ferraris' right? It could easily go around Wakefield in 1:06's, stock.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Disciple

Steffo, but what about the Golf R32? It's as fast as Ferraris' right? It could easily go around Wakefield in 1:06's, stock.

Depends on the Ferrari. You do know there are Ferrari's slower then the five cars in the previous post, right? Dino 206 GT anyone? Or perhaps a 308 GTB? :

[Disciple]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Depends on the Ferrari. You do know there are Ferrari's slower then the five cars in the previous post, right? Dino 206 GT anyone? Or perhaps a 308 GTB? :

Yes, I know. Even a 1974 Ferrari Dino is slower than the Supra and on par with the Falcoon. Even a 412 would be challenged by the Supra. But those R32's, they'd have an F430 or an F50 for breakfast. I mean an F50 even tho it does 0-400m in 11.1 @ 127mph, the DSG R32 would be door to door I reckon.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Disciple

Yes, I know. Even a 1974 Ferrari Dino is slower than the Supra and on par with the Falcoon. Even a 412 would be challenged by the Supra. But those R32's, they'd have an F430 or an F50 for breakfast. I mean an F50 even tho it does 0-400m in 11.1 @ 127mph, the DSG R32 would be door to door I reckon.

Attempting to start an e-fight.. :

This is you...



:

[Disciple]

Sorry if you can't handle the raw figures, Steffo. R32 DSG Golf is VERY fast in a straight line and around a track - I'd say about on par with an Enzo for both.

[Steffo]

The only problem with the internets is that I can't tell if you're trying to be funny or stir me up... or both.

Either way... :

[Beetus]

Easy pick the best package that comes up at the time, all the inline 6 engines being spoken about are good engines. All so close in perofrmance that the drivel skill would soak up any advantage you had. But to nissan and toyotas credit, they would handle a fair load better...... but for comfort the falcon is the way.... im 6"1 i owned a mr2 turbo, small car.....i fit fine but i went back to a ebxr8, even though my xr8 does low 15's compared to mid 13's in the mr2. Both as reliable as each other.......and with the speed, since when are we all race drivers when tenth of a second matters........all good cars imo

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Beetus

Easy pick the best package that comes up at the time, all the inline 6 engines being spoken about are good engines. All so close in perofrmance that the drivel skill would soak up any advantage you had. But to nissan and toyotas credit, they would handle a fair load better...... but for comfort the falcon is the way.... im 6"1 i owned a mr2 turbo, small car.....i fit fine but i went back to a ebxr8, even though my xr8 does low 15's compared to mid 13's in the mr2. Both as reliable as each other.......and with the speed, since when are we all race drivers when tenth of a second matters........all good cars imo

True the 0.5 second advantage of the Supra is a bees d!ck in the real world.

Driver skill can mean difference in entire seconds, if all the cars are in the same second bracket then they are really the same in the real world there are just so many variables in the world. I would like to know how many of these cars actually still can do their brochure times and power outputs.

Like I have said I have seen a modified GTS-T struggle to make stock power levels on the dyno.

Go the Falcon, save a bundle and put it into exhaust and intake, get your driving technique perfect and on the weekend still be able to tow a boat and go camping.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Beetus

All so close in perofrmance that the drivel skill would soak up any advantage you had.

There's nothing more important than drivel skill. :P

[Disciple]

Originally Posted by Steffo

The only problem with the internets is that I can't tell if you're trying to be funny or stir me up... or both.

Either way... :

I was stirring. My bait must be off or something.

[sprjenkins]

Originally Posted by XR8Master

Im surprised by a few of the posts in this thread which condone the view that the falcon is simply a old family man's car.

Thats because the Falcon is an old mans family car. Sure you can turbocharge it but its never going to be a proper sports car unless you spend V8 supercar dollars on it. Even then it still won't be the biggest, baddest or fastest on the block. You'll just look silly because you could have had a proper sports car but you have sunk ridiculous sums of money into a falcon.

[Beetus]

Originally Posted by Rodp

There's nothing more important than drivel skill. :P

funny

[streetracer23]

aye sorry aha yea i started this thread haven't accessed it for a couple of days

to clear things up yes im on my p's thats why im looking at NA cars, and a lot of good arguments for falcon and for imports have been given and i thank you all because it has helped me.

as far as height goes im 6-4 90kgs so yes you would think i need a big car but my mates probe has more room for me than my dads 97 maxima so the size of the car isn't the be all and end all its how it feels when you are in it.

at the end of the day i think the falcon is the wiser choice primarily due to reliability and the fact that it is a big car and you can take all of your mates in it without being cramped... and it looks awesome in xr6 trim. plus you have the potential to turbo it later on. however the cornering is a downside comparde to the jap cars however i guess coilovers and sway bars etc could be another option down the track to get it a bit better at the bends.

But im talking with the mods.. extractors, exhaust, air filter, cold air intake are all very probable, turbo maybe later on but as for weight reduction, sway bars etc i doubt ill ever go thru with it on an el falcon.

thanks for ur help, at the end of the day im only looking at the 0-100 because thats when im pushing it.. past 100 on sydney streets is too dangerous in most places. So with very little difference between them in times and the reliability and affordability of the falcon il most likely be going with that.

Thankyou and stop arguing abt nuthn...

while im here... to turbo the falcon are there any major reliability issues.. obviously im not gonna be running heaps high boost but yeh.. and ideas bcos i dno anyone with a turbod ef/el? and for a basic set up id be looking at 4-5k right?

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by streetracer23

aye sorry aha yea i started this thread haven't accessed it for a couple of days

to clear things up yes im on my p's thats why im looking at NA cars, and a lot of good arguments for falcon and for imports have been given and i thank you all because it has helped me.

as far as height goes im 6-4 90kgs so yes you would think i need a big car but my mates probe has more room for me than my dads 97 maxima so the size of the car isn't the be all and end all its how it feels when you are in it.

at the end of the day i think the falcon is the wiser choice primarily due to reliability and the fact that it is a big car and you can take all of your mates in it without being cramped... and it looks awesome in xr6 trim. plus you have the potential to turbo it later on. however the cornering is a downside comparde to the jap cars however i guess coilovers and sway bars etc could be another option down the track to get it a bit better at the bends.

But im talking with the mods.. extractors, exhaust, air filter, cold air intake are all very probable, turbo maybe later on but as for weight reduction, sway bars etc i doubt ill ever go thru with it on an el falcon.

thanks for ur help, at the end of the day im only looking at the 0-100 because thats when im pushing it.. past 100 on sydney streets is too dangerous in most places. So with very little difference between them in times and the reliability and affordability of the falcon il most likely be going with that.

Thankyou and stop arguing abt nuthn...

while im here... to turbo the falcon are there any major reliability issues.. obviously im not gonna be running heaps high boost but yeh.. and ideas bcos i dno anyone with a turbod ef/el? and for a basic set up id be looking at 4-5k right?

I'm assuming being on your P's there are vehicle restrictions that is why you are looking at NA, rights???

Seeing as you are on your P's I would suggest that you don't sink too much money into whatever car you choose and save the money for when you get off your P's.

I would recommend the XR6 because you can pick them up for under 10 grand, throw an exhaust, extractors and snorkel on it to run it into high 14's and have plenty of leftover money to start building a car for when you get off your P's.

Do you really want to spend a fortune now to be in front of your mates and then get off your P's and then all your mates will pick up SS's and XR6 Turbos and leave you behind?? Think about it. You could pick up an XR6 have a lot of fun and be able to beat most people except the tossers who spend 40 grand getting their NA Integra into 12's and then when you get off your P's you will be able to pick up a XR8 or XR6 Turbo dirt cheap. Even better you could spend your time on your P's building a old school V8 monster and every now then be able to leave your P's behind and take it for a spin.

I'm not saying my way is the correct way but as a P plater it made sense to me. I picked up a cheap Fairmont Ghia with all the luxury features and Tickford motor and put pacemaker extractors, cat back exhaust and XR6T intake on it. This is probably the end of the mods on the car but I am well and truely ahead of most p platers on the street except for the few tossers who went 50 grand into debt to do up imports. Because I didn't spend a fortune I was able to buy a motorbike, go camping and get ****ed with mates, buy a big TV and xbox 360 and now with one year to go on my P's I'm looking for a V8 Ford to buy to do up.

I have a mate who borrowed a fortune so his Skyline could be ahead of other P platers. He lost his job, couldn't pay the workshop modding his car so now he has a huge debt and no car.

Just because you can't drive a V8 doesn't mean you can't OWN one.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by streetracer23

thanks for ur help, at the end of the day im only looking at the 0-100 because thats when im pushing it.. past 100 on sydney streets is too dangerous in most places.

Oh great. :

[Ruger]

if you dont mind alot of self maintenence buy an e30 325i/is :P not that im a biased e30 owner or anything. good headroom for mods they have

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by TUFEL-6

and has for non turbo skylines, they are buckets of , Soarers are boats.

I wouldn't necessarily say they're a bucket of..........

I went for a drive in a 99 R34 GT Sedan, and it was quite fast for what it was.

Keeping in mind it was a stock RB25DE, Auto. I've been in many Falcons, and Commodores, and really that particular Skyline gave me alot of respect for them. I think it would shock a few Falcon and Commodore owners, with a few mods.

It was very quiet, even from 0-100. No rattles or squeaks.

[stmatt]

Sub 10K..performance...handling...comfort....luxury... .massive interior space....big boot....cheap on fuel....sounds like a Galant VR4 to me.
Sucks how its turbo though. Insurance isn't bad either, performance is really good (for a four banger).
That P plate turbo rule really limits what younglings can buy. Car dealerships are now charging a fairly good 6 for almost as much as an 8 (aussie cars Ford, Holden) taking advantage of the ban, bastards lol.

[BlackLS]

Since you're young I'd push to get into a EF/EL Falcon or similar for price/total cost of ownership and also safety reasons. Just upgrade the brakes and suspension on the Falcon first. Sure the Falcon can get up to 180kmhs but it'll take longer than a Skyline etc to get there and is less confortable at that speed. If you damage the car theres plenty of E-series going for a few grand that you can just transfer all your goodies over to. If you can get one on gas your fuel costs will be like a 4cyl.

Perhaps after a few years of driving a Skyline will be a suitable idea.

[sleekism]

I thought Autospeed could be of some help they have a few articles on sub 10k performance cars most are turbos but there are a few good choics.

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_1825/arti...popularArticle

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1826/...popularArticle

The following is one on multi purpose performers which is what the Falcon excels at. I've pasted this article

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2890/article.html

Multi-Purpose Performers
Got up to AUD$10,000 to spend on a relatively late-model multi-purpose car but don't want something boring? You're not alone!
By Michael Knowling




At a glance...

Late-model, multi-purpose cars with performance
All for under $10,000!



There I was. I had just turned thirty, purchased a house and I was looking for a replacement car. And this time my search was constrained by practical requirements. Replacing my previous criterion of maximum performance per dollar were: the ability to tow, cart people and cargo in comfort; have reasonable safety; and be plain enough to park without concerns of theft. With a budget of less than AUD$10,000, the challenge was on to find a car that does all this and delivers reasonable performance – and I reckon there are plenty of other people in the same boat!

So let’s check out what’s on the market.

Holden Commodore

The Commodore is the average Australian punter’s first choice when it comes to meeting practical requirements while delivering performance potential. The big Holden offers ample front and rear occupant space, a gigantic boot, folding rear seats and many are equipped with a pretty beefy tow-bar package. The practical abilities of the Commodore are unarguable – but what about performance?

Truth be told, the standard Commodore 3.8-litre V6 offers plenty of punch for normal day-to-day driving. But for anyone into high-performance, the optional V8 and supercharged V6 are the models of interests. Unfortunately, bent-eight muscle was out of the question for me – the LS1 models are too expensive and the ‘Aussie’ 5-litre V8 VT Commodore doesn’t do a lot for me. A case of all bark and no bite.



So that leaves the supercharged V6. Given my background in turbocharged vehicles, this force-fed beast has some attraction – the Eaton positive displacement blower helps the 3.8-litre V6 put out a useable 171kW and 375Nm. Tuning potential? Well, there are a number of ways to tackle the GM-Delco management system and a custom water injection system should allow a pulley upgrade to deliver more boost pressure. This in addition to exhaust and pre-supercharger intake mods should give plenty of reliable grunt. Of course, it’ll always be a noisy, harsh engine but – hey – you can’t buy the world for under 10 grand...

Scouring the second-hand car market, it became clear that a supercharged VT Commodore would be pushing the budget. I did manage to track down a supercharged VT Commodore S for AUD$9200, but with very high kilometres, there might’ve been a giant repair bill not far down the track.


With some more cash, yep, I reckon a supercharged VT would be an attractive package. But it’s not quite the right car if your maximum expenditure is AUD$10,000.

Subaru Liberty/Legacy

Having previously owned a locally-delivered Subaru Liberty RS turbo I was quite keen on a later-model Japanese-spec Legacy twin-turbo wagon. Good looks, wagon practicality, capable handling, decent engine flexibility and a healthy 206kW top-end make it a very strong package. But again it soon became obvious the TT Legacies are just outside the price range. Hmmm, but what about the ‘big block’ 2.5-litre naturally aspirated Subies?

Well, with a modest 115kW/221Nm, the MY97 2.5-litre Liberty RX, Heritage and Outback wagon aren’t exactly speed machines – especially the early versions which are auto-only. Manual versions appeared during ’98 and, largely due to their later build date, they’re considerably dearer and outside of our range. Interestingly, the contemporary magazine performance times of 2.5-litre Liberties are all over the place – everywhere from mid 8s to the low 10s...


It’s clear that some basic breathing mods would lift output to around 130kW but, still, the tweaked 2.5 will be a long way behind the twin-turbo Legacy. The only way to get the 2.5 hauling is to add forced induction. Which begs the question - why bother when you can buy the twin-turbo Legacy?

So the Subaru is a no-go for under 10g.

Ford Fairmont Ghia

It’s no secret that many people despise the styling of the AU-series Ford and, since its late ‘90s launch, resale values have plummeted. And that means bargain time!


The AU offers the same level of practicality as the Holden Commodore and you can end up with quite a sweet ride if you choose wisely. Steer away from base Falcons and the entry-level Fairmont and head in the direction of AU Fairmont Ghia. The Ghia boasts a sophisticated IRS (while the rest of the range uses a live axle) and a much prettier, better equipped interior. You get a premium sound system, trip computer, splashes of woodgrain and, in some versions, leather trim. The styling of the Fairmont Ghia body is also much less offensive than the base Falcon.


The Fairmont Ghia comes powered by the same 4-litre in-line six found in the go-fast AU XR6 VCT. This SOHC engine runs a 9.6:1 compression ratio, variable inlet manifold and VCT (variable cam timing). A whisper-quiet exhaust system keeps the Fairmont Ghia from producing the same power as the XR6 – 168kW versus 172kW – but its appreciably gruntier than the base 4-litre Falcon. Driving through a four-speed auto trans and a relatively short ratio LSD, the AU Fairmont Ghia is an effortless performer than can crack 100 km/h in under 9 seconds. Standard traction control also helps keep the grunty 4-litre pointing the right way at all times.


If you drive a hard bargain, you can purchase an AU Fairmont Ghia for under AUD$10,000 depending on kilometres. And note that, while scouring the classifieds, I stumbled across a rare AU Fairmont Ghia equipped with Tickford suspension and 17 inch wheels – essentially a luxury-spec XR6!

Mitsubishi Magna/Verada

We’ve trumpeted the abilities of the 3.5-litre Mitsubishi Magna/Verada in many articles but, when it came time for me to buy, I found some extra info that’ll be valuable for people in a similar situation.

I was hoping to buy a 3.5-litre Magna TH Sports - preferably with a manual gearbox – but, at the time, there were none available at the right price. Damn. I wasn’t going to step back to the smaller 3-litre V6, so that left the luxury-spec Verada (which comes standard with the big cube V6) or a low grade TH Magna optioned with the same engine. So which to chose?


Well, if I wanted performance above all else it would be the 3.5-litre base Magna with a manual ‘box. But there are a lot of trade-offs. Most base Magnas have wind-up windows, a vomit-inducing interior trim (see photo), a terrible radio-cassette head unit, steel wheels, non colour-coded exterior trim and some don’t even have ABS. Don’t bother asking about airbags... I reckon any initial saving in the base Magna 3.5 would be quickly erased by the time the car is brought up to an acceptable spec.


And so we arrive at the Verada. It’s the heaviest, they come with a standard auto and the oversize ‘export spec’ bumper bars are an obvious afterthought. But, yes, they all have the grunty 3.5-litre donk, a decent equipment level, ABS, one or two airbags, alloy wheels and a CD head unit. Not a bad option if you can overlook the performance lost through the auto-only trans and heftier weight.

And, at the right price (AUD$7700), it was a package too good for this buyer to ignore! See 800km to Buy a Car

Other Cars to Consider...
In addition to the cars mentioned, there were a few other machines that are worthy of consideration if you’re juggling a list of criteria. These are...

1997 Toyota Camry 3-litre V6 five-speed manual (sweet engine, totally stealth but limited potential)

1990 Toyota Celsior 4-litre V8 four-speed automatic (194kW, rear-wheel-drive and luxurious but quite old)

1992 Alfa Romeo 164Q 3-litre V6 five-speed manual (good performance and plenty of character but rare and potentially expensive to maintain)

1993 Saab 9000 Turbo CS/CSE/Aero 2.3-litre turbo manual or auto (quick, solidly built but old fashioned styling and terrible retained value)