4cyl Falcon - Thoughts and Reviews?

[FGII-XR6]

"nanny states" by not allowing stage 2 learners ( thats what a P plater really is a learner allowed to solo) to drive cars they don't have the experience to handle? novice drivers need to get off their soap boxes and earn the right to drive performance cars. would you allow a novice pilot to fly a 747 or an FA18? no I didn't think so same applies here
NSW allows P platers to drive the EB falcon

Originally Posted by Tysonv48

Vic and Nsw
Has both been "nanny" states for a while
I was under the impression that the 4 cylinder turbo falcon was going to change the rules
Have they already been changed?

[Tysonv48]

If you force p plates to drive **** boxes that they don't care about they run them into the ground and drive them like crap.

[saber]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Not silly at all. They are tested to perform for 200,000k's without service to turbo. They are a 'built in' turbo designed and incorporated into the engine and not an after thought add on (I6T).

While they are tested to perform to this, it does not mean at 201,000 they explode but is what is considered as a benchmark for longevity before anything needs attention of any sorts.

Could you expand on this point? Ie can you actually service the turbo?
If you can, is this something a mechanically minded bloke (or lady for our female readers) can take care of themselves, or is this something best left to the pros?

Would be great to see a sticky on Fordforums concerning servicing the turbo (if it can be done)!!!

[deadfish2]

Originally Posted by mik

that`s pretty good , would you put car turbo in the same boat as a truck one though? , i know my young brother( rev head) has done a couple of turbo`s on performance cars(supra`s) over the years, would not have got near 160,000 k`s, mind you they where caned within an inch of their lives and probably a little over boosted.

the motors in a garbage compactor at our tip, because it drives hydraulic pumps at full power the duty cycle of it would have to be atleast 95% where as a car might be about 35%, so anywhich way it lasted well until it threw the turbine into the housing.... i hadda wished i seen it blew, they recon it threw 2m flames out the exhaust

[deadfish2]

Originally Posted by saber

Could you expand on this point? Ie can you actually service the turbo?
If you can, is this something a mechanically minded bloke (or lady for our female readers) can take care of themselves, or is this something best left to the pros?

Would be great to see a sticky on Fordforums concerning servicing the turbo (if it can be done)!!!

in terms of turbos, your better off throwing away or exhchanging on a reco, when they blow they normally split the turbine and send them into the housing which is then damaged... the tolerences in a turbo are very fine and if you decide to change your on bearings or seal any inbalance in the turbine will send it through the housing,

[weairy]

Originally Posted by Tysonv48

Vic and Nsw
Has both been "nanny" states for a while
I was under the impression that the 4 cylinder turbo falcon was going to change the rules
Have they already been changed?

If you look on the VicRoads website, they've been changed. That's what prompted me to write this thread.

And it was a logical choice really.

[weairy]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

"nanny states" by not allowing stage 2 learners ( thats what a P plater really is a learner allowed to solo) to drive cars they don't have the experience to handle? novice drivers need to get off their soap boxes and earn the right to drive performance cars. would you allow a novice pilot to fly a 747 or an FA18? no I didn't think so same applies here
NSW allows P platers to drive the EB falcon

The whole idea of a "performance" car is a fairly grey area though. The power-to-weight system was much more reliable.

Let me illustrate a little;

Toyota 86, the new "sports car" by Toyota, big power to weight, built to be a track car/race car, highly regarded as being just that. But;



Dad's dirty old 82' WB Statesman with an old 308 with less horses than my XR6;


Because the Stato has 8 cylinders, it's insta-banning.
But the 2lt 4cyl Boxer gets off without a second glance.

Just my thoughts on it

[superyob]

No matter what rational is applied to justify its existence, a four cylinder Falcon is just wrong, along with the idea of fitting it with a V6 diesel. They are then not Falcons and should be called something else, like Econobird or some other green propagandist rubbish. I would like to remember the Falcon as the fire breathing dragon it has been throughout the last 50 years, not as a watered down appeal to economic conservatives who complain endlessly about the price of fuel and lattés.

[FGII-XR6]

just an Idea, go down to a Ford dealer and test drive one then see if you feel the same. if I was in the market for a new car and couldn't afford an XR6 turbo I would seriously consider one after driving one. forget the 2 L engine these things will outrun an AU XR6 vct and actually have 4 KW more than a 5.0L AU fairlane or fairmont

Originally Posted by superyob

No matter what rational is applied to justify its existence, a four cylinder Falcon is just wrong, along with the idea of fitting it with a V6 diesel. They are then not Falcons and should be called something else, like Econobird or some other green propagandist rubbish. I would like to remember the Falcon as the fire breathing dragon it has been throughout the last 50 years, not as a watered down appeal to economic conservatives who complain endlessly about the price of fuel and lattés.

I agree it is not a perfect system and power to weight would be better the point I was making is P platers anting cars they don't have the experience to handle

Originally Posted by weairy

The whole idea of a "performance" car is a fairly grey area though. The power-to-weight system was much more reliable.

Let me illustrate a little;

Toyota 86, the new "sports car" by Toyota, big power to weight, built to be a track car/race car, highly regarded as being just that. But;

image

Dad's dirty old 82' WB Statesman with an old 308 with less horses than my XR6;
image

Because the Stato has 8 cylinders, it's insta-banning.
But the 2lt 4cyl Boxer gets off without a second glance.

Just my thoughts on it

[Sprint]

is it a duratech motor?

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by superyob

No matter what rational is applied to justify its existence, a four cylinder Falcon is just wrong, along with the idea of fitting it with a V6 diesel. They are then not Falcons and should be called something else, like Econobird or some other green propagandist rubbish. I would like to remember the Falcon as the fire breathing dragon it has been throughout the last 50 years, not as a watered down appeal to economic conservatives who complain endlessly about the price of fuel and lattés.

Lol, how's those rose tinted glasses working for you?

Since the very beginning of falcon there has always been a economy/base model derivative. Remember the 3.2 ea? Or 3.3 xf's? Go right back to xm/xp era of falcons and engine size was not much more than the modern Ecoboost. And guess what? Even the best xp wouldn't see which way the Ecoboost went.

It's called progress. The same progress that's given us the all conquering Miami simply turned its technological might to economy rather than outright performance.

Not every model needs to be a 'fire breathing dragon'.

[SumoDog68]

4cyl Falcon is one of the choices Ford OZ had to try and add to Falcon sales. I would prefer diesel (wagon) but it is what it is.
If Falcon is 4 cyl car then it might have to compete with whole new market of 4cyl cars - some of those are very good cars .
To me Falcon is a 6/8 cyl car but thankfully quite a few like ecoboost 4.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Lol, how's those rose tinted glasses working for you?

Since the very beginning of falcon there has always been a economy/base model derivative. Remember the 3.2 ea? Or 3.3 xf's? Go right back to xm/xp era of falcons and engine size was not much more than the modern Ecoboost. And guess what? Even the best xp wouldn't see which way the Ecoboost went.

It's called progress. The same progress that's given us the all conquering Miami simply turned its technological might to economy rather than outright performance.

Not every model needs to be a 'fire breathing dragon'.

Guilty as charged! I do like my rose tinted glasses. And yes, I do remember those less than inspiring 3.3 litre engines. But as long as Falcon and Fairlane had only two engine configurations to choose from, the world made sense to me. My point was not a rant against progress, but simply to voice an opinion that any different engine configurations should not be put into the Falcon range...

[Nikked]

My point was not a rant against progress, but simply to voice an opinion that any different engine configurations should not be put into the Falcon range...[/QUOTE]



Ford have a Global policy, with an aim of having a 4cly across the whole range. The EcoBoost in the falcon cements the future of the platform. The Falcon is the first vehicle world wide to receive a N/S RWD EB4 layout...with the Mustang and F-Trucks following (transits too?)...so there is a dammed good reason for it.

Originally Posted by superyob

.
I would like to remember the Falcon as the fire breathing dragon it has been throughout the last 50 years, not as a watered down appeal to economic conservatives who complain endlessly about the price of fuel and lattés...

So A CFI EA is a Fire Breathing dragon? E-Gas? Pollution Gear clogged and Economically improved XB's?

The Beauty of the falcon is that it tick's plenty of boxes...since the XR was released, its been a Bi-Polar car...

Sedate Family hack or Fire Breathing dragon...the choice is yours!

[weairy]

Wait wait wait. 4cyl EB F truck? Did I read that right?
The thing wouldn't tow the skin off a rice custard :S
So we have established that the EB4 is more or less as powerful as the 6, but at what kind of strain on the engine?
I know plenty of Patrol lovers that said the same thing about the 4cyl patrol. It does the same job, but it does it a lot harder and don't expect to see the 300-500k longevity that the 4.2 had. Will the EB be the same? Do 200k then throw it out?

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by weairy

Will the EB be the same? Do 200k then throw it out?

Longevity is not something that can be said for sure about the EcoBoost until we see one do about 300-400k. While I haven't taken an EcoBoost Falcon on a long cruise, on paper it delivers its maximum power and maximum torque at lower RPMs than the six. I don't see why it would have to work harder ...

Also, how many people actually keep their cars for more than a few years these days? Is longevity really a priority for new car buyers? Do they want a car that will last them the next 20 years? Or will they be moving it on in 5 years or so?

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

"nanny states" by not allowing stage 2 learners ( thats what a P plater really is a learner allowed to solo) to drive cars they don't have the experience to handle? novice drivers need to get off their soap boxes and earn the right to drive performance cars.

Just because someone is a P plater doesn't necessarily mean that they're a novice driver. A 17 year old could potentially have been involved in motorsports for 10 years or so and therefore might know more about car control than the average A to B driver with 50 years experience.

Restrictions are not the answer, education is.

[Spanrz]

Originally Posted by flappist

That has absolutely nothing to do with it at all.

Beg to differ here... I see a lot of Telstra cars in Wagon style being a Commodore. News ones at that.

Telstra don't want Territory's, so Commodores are it.

[In Focus]

Originally Posted by NX74205

Longevity is not something that can be said for sure about the EcoBoost until we see one do about 300-400k. While I haven't taken an EcoBoost Falcon on a long cruise, on paper it delivers its maximum power and maximum torque at lower RPMs than the six. I don't see why it would have to work harder ...

Also, how many people actually keep their cars for more than a few years these days? Is longevity really a priority for new car buyers? Do they want a car that will last them the next 20 years? Or will they be moving it on in 5 years or so?

It could also be argued that it's not in Ford's best interest for their cars to last "forever", because customers are less likely to buy a new car.

[Terry Turbo]

No will will buy it if they don't know about it.

A "big" Australian Family car that seats 5 and does 8 litres per 100kms.

Ford need to tell the public that it exists. But have you seen one TV ad?

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Terry Turbo

No will will buy it if they don't know about it.

A "big" Australian Family car that seats 5 and does 8 litres per 100kms.

Ford need to tell the public that it exists. But have you seen one TV ad?

You mean like this ad on TV?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNyC6...1&feature=plcp

[Franco Cozzo]

I don't see why people are complaining about the 4 cylinder Falcon? It makes more power, has more torque (earlier on in the range too) and uses less fuel than my EL Fairmont Ghia, which makes more power than my TDCI Focus, which makes more power than my WS Fiesta, lol.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I don't see why people are complaining about the 4 cylinder Falcon? It makes more power, has more torque (earlier on in the range too) and uses less fuel than my EL Fairmont Ghia, which has more power than my TDCI Focus, which has more power than my WS Fiesta, lol.

Because they find it disconcerting that they could possibly loose to a 4 cyl at the red light drags in their 5.0 AU .....

[Spanrz]

Best ad idea for me, is fill the car up with people, some small bits of luggage and drive to Sydney on one tank
Then compare it to the VE Commodore. But add the punchline, that the EcoBoost is full of a family, rather than 1 person driving to Sydney!

[FGII-XR6]

we have to work with the rule not the exception the vast majority of P platers are novice drivers, still learning how to drived

Originally Posted by NX74205

Just because someone is a P plater doesn't necessarily mean that they're a novice driver. A 17 year old could potentially have been involved in motorsports for 10 years or so and therefore might know more about car control than the average A to B driver with 50 years experience.

Restrictions are not the answer, education is.

[weairy]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I don't see why people are complaining about the 4 cylinder Falcon? It makes more power, has more torque (earlier on in the range too) and uses less fuel than my EL Fairmont Ghia, which makes more power than my TDCI Focus, which makes more power than my WS Fiesta, lol.

My mum's sewing machine makes more power than a WS Fiesta haha.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by NX74205

Just because someone is a P plater doesn't necessarily mean that they're a novice driver. A 17 year old could potentially have been involved in motorsports for 10 years or so and therefore might know more about car control than the average A to B driver with 50 years experience.

Restrictions are not the answer, education is.

Yes it does ...... Motorsport is a very controlled environment. Driving on roads with the commoners takes a lot more skill ..... and to survive 50 years of driving is absolutely nothing to crap on.

Again its the novice who thinks they are the most capable while those who have had the 30 plus years of trouble free motoring are the ones who do not know what they are doing? Good and bad drivers on both but being able to control a car around a race track is only 5% of the skills required to navigate day to day driving. Unfortunately .... and is part of the problem ..... this is lost on quite a few! ANYONE can drive ..... but doing it safely day in and day out is something a little bit different.

Education is one thing and yes, must be taught ....... but unfortunately you cannot be taught common sense! THAT comes from experience.

The system is flawed if the EB is not accepted as P plate material ..... but how many P platers would buy one over a 6 anyway? Wouldn't think peer pressure would allow it to happen and that is what is so important in this age group.

SIGNED: Grandpa Auslandau .....

[weairy]

Nowadays, it just defies me why there are so many accidents.

Ok, speed, alcohol and absolute stupidity attribute to a lot of it, but look at the technology we've got.
ABS, VSC, TrC, Cruise Control etc etc. All these things that make a car safer and harder to crash...

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by saber

Could you expand on this point? Ie can you actually service the turbo?
If you can, is this something a mechanically minded bloke (or lady for our female readers) can take care of themselves, or is this something best left to the pros?

Would be great to see a sticky on Fordforums concerning servicing the turbo (if it can be done)!!!

Nope ..... the turbo cannot be serviced by the novice at all. It isn't bolted onto the side and isn't easily accessible like the standard bolt on. In saying this though ..... the turbo should not need any service. They have been tested to a life cycle of 200,000 without any and should continue from there on.

If something does fail of course it can be rectified but isn't something to be done in the back yard.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

we have to work with the rule not the exception the vast majority of P platers are novice drivers, still learning how to drived

That may be ...

but these restrictions came about after public outcry over P-platers hooning in powerful cars. I don't think the powerful cars are the problem, but rather the attitudes of those "hoons". By banning P-platers from driving cars with a certain number of cylinders (or above a certain power to weight ratio), they're effectively punishing the majority for the sins of a few.

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Yes it does ...... Motorsport is a very controlled environment. Driving on roads with the commoners takes a lot more skill ..... and to survive 50 years of driving is absolutely nothing to crap on.

Again its the novice who thinks they are the most capable while those who have had the 30 plus years of trouble free motoring are the ones who do not know what they are doing? Good and bad drivers on both but being able to control a car around a race track is only 5% of the skills required to navigate day to day driving. Unfortunately .... and is part of the problem ..... this is lost on quite a few! ANYONE can drive ..... but doing it safely day in and day out is something a little bit different.

Education is one thing and yes, must be taught ....... but unfortunately you cannot be taught common sense! THAT comes from experience.

The system is flawed if the EB is not accepted as P plate material ..... but how many P platers would buy one over a 6 anyway? Wouldn't think peer pressure would allow it to happen and that is what is so important in this age group.

SIGNED: Grandpa Auslandau .....

Perhaps you're right, driving on the roads takes an entirely different skill set. But I submit that a person who has been involved in professional motorsport knows how to find the limit of adhesion and the limit of his/her abilities, and to respect it and never exceed it, because he/she would know very well what the consequences would be. That person would be familiar with the laws of physics as it relates to vehicles in motion, because he/she would've experienced it in a controlled environment. They're far less likely to let "ambition get ahead of adhesion" (to borrow a quote from Martin Brundle), lose it on a bend and throw the car into a tree.

I agree with the last part of your post, by the way ... the system is flawed.