Puma Axed except for EV

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Just yesterday, took our daughter's car to a car wash for a full detail...looked so bad I finally said enough....we're going to get this thing cleaned before it turns organic or that apple core wrapped in the tissue in the door pocket starts to grow.....

the car wash is next to Brighton Ford....any way.. my favourite salesperson spotted us and so we started chatting...his own words...."we don't know if it's the chicken or egg scenario....Ford Oz couldn't give us enough cars to sell for the last few years as we are tied to Europe for supply other than Ranger causing a loss in brand-loyal buyers who couldn't wait, plus we've had to raise prices to get some form of ROI on the reduced sales numbers... or... have we lost a generation of loyal passenger car buyers that started before shutting down production that moved to other brands and having available cars would make no difference?

And finally, I've never seen up close a Ranger Platinum and I must say, it's pretty damn nice.....

So he was saying that his dealership could not get enough Puma or Esccapes?

[minheim]

Originally Posted by kevino

So he was saying that his dealership could not get enough Puma or Esccapes?

My understanding is that Ford Europe never prioritized production for Ford Australia and hence we got insufficient numbers to properly promote and sell those models ordered. I also wondered if another factor was out unique Australian Design Rules. ADRs made sense when we had big local manufacturing but not so much for a RHD market that is small in terms of comparative volume and with lots of importers. Would be much simplier for manufacturers if we had rules better aligned with the big markets.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

We're in that 1950s/early 1960s era of Ford where they had no motorsport program and no interest in sports cars, until Enzo Ferrari told them to go **** themselves



https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/f...n-auto-racing/

We need someone to insult the CEO of Ford again so they pull the finger out

Enter BENT_8.

But ol' Benty never gained no traction in insulting the brand in the hope that they'd return it to its once former greatness because silly Benty chose a platform full of apologists...
And what do you get when you stop asking questions and instead make excuses...
Ford Ute Est. 2023

Flame away.

[kevino]

Well there s a few of us now calling em Ford Ute Aus

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by minheim

My understanding is that Ford Europe never prioritized production for Ford Australia and hence we got insufficient numbers to properly promote and sell those models ordered. I also wondered if another factor was out unique Australian Design Rules. ADRs made sense when we had big local manufacturing but not so much for a RHD market that is small in terms of comparative volume and with lots of importers. Would be much simplier for manufacturers if we had rules better aligned with the big markets.

My thoughts on it was Ford Europe throwing Ford Australia under the bus, but I also get the impression Ford Australia just threw its hands up in the air and decided to discontinue everything, rather than fight tooth and nail for its customers with orders being unfulfilled because of Ford internal politics.

I completely agree about the ADRs, they shouldn't exist anymore, if its good enough for SK/JP/USA/UK/EU then its good enough for Australia too. Too much ****ing red tape in this country with bullshit unique requirements causing dramas hurting customer choice.

When you're 0.00000001% of the global market why do we have specific rules? Its madness, who the **** is going to spend shitloads complying vehicles for our market specifically when you represent nothing?

[IanC]

Originally Posted by kypez

I don't totally agree with this given the Laser did quite well. When Laser was replaced by Focus, that tanked. Not sure why but Australians just didn't warm up to Focus over Laser

When the Focus first came out in the UK I was over there and I rented one for a month. Came back here and bought a Laser 6 month later. Never regretted it. The Laser seemed a much better built car and it proved totally reliable in the eleven years our family had it.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

We're in that 1950s/early 1960s era of Ford where they had no motorsport program and no interest in sports cars, until Enzo Ferrari told them to go **** themselves

No motorsport and Argentinian style numbers in the ask for the 'everyman's car'.

Originally Posted by DJM83

Just had a look at FoA website.
In the performance area we have.
Ranger Raptor.
Mustang
Then Ford Performance, which includes both mustang/raptor and some blabbing about them coming to F1 and last years supercars.
Page is also dated 2022.
They've lost the plot IMO.
That FP area could have Fiesta/Focus ST, Mustang, Raptor (maybe a new Focus RS)
Ford US isnt really much better either having racecars listed in there which is pointless.
What a time to be alive as a Ford fan!

They still win the handling/ride part for the everyday car, that's something that has continued from the early 2000s.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by kevino

So he was saying that his dealership could not get enough Puma or Esccapes?

Yep...I know that to be true as I was an Escape customer ordering in Dec 2020 (edit mistakenly wrote Dec '21 originally) that cancelled 11 months later..., plus back a year earlier they stopped taking Transit Custom orders, and I literally walked in to place an order not caring when it arrived but the sales team said they had a draw full of orders and no idea on build dates, then finally the larger Transit van also had a stop on orders for a while.

[kevino]

I looked up Ford South africa site

I see the Chinese Ford Territory is going to be sold there not sure made there or China.

So it got me wondering?

Chinese or South Africa Territory for Aus?

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

or... have we lost a generation of loyal passenger car buyers that started before shutting down production that moved to other brands and having available cars would make no difference?

That's a really good question. Loyal passenger car buyer here (going out on limb that Territory was 'car-like', which it was), the replacement for these Fords is European and 2 to 2.5x the price, the ingredients previously were large, RWD/AWD, car not separate chassis, power which used to be 6 cylinders but now is more open to interpretation, reliability, longevity eg 20 year lifespan, simple mechanical, parts and dealership availability.

What Ford fits that bill today? Could be the Explorer, the Lincoln Aviator maybe? Would Bronco/Bronco Sport be this configuration?

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by kevino

I looked up Ford South africa site

I see the Chinese Ford Territory is going to be sold there not sure made there or China.

So it got me wondering?

Chinese or South Africa Territory for Aus?

Neither. It's pretty clear Ford are gearing towards Ranger/Everest only.

Mustang will be next to go, they will fulfill their current orders and then let it die. Mach E will disappear quietly due to lack of interest, F-150 has been cursed from the get-go and will be dropped due to quality control issues and a lack of trust by potential customers. All three are just too much hassle to source from the US. Then they will ride Transit out, drop it, then blame lack sales when in fact it was a lack of availability.

The Ranger and Everest will then be the sole contenders, quick, easy and highly profitable sales that require no marketing skill or effort. Typical approach from a lazy American company.

Prove me wrong.

[In Focus]

Yesterday, I was waiting at the lights across the road from McInerney Ford.

In the front row: 12 (white) Rangers, along with a single Escape (also white) and a single Transit (orange with black stripes).

Sure, there was probably other stuff hiding behind the above, but that was what they giving prime position on the lot.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by In Focus

Yesterday, I was waiting at the lights across the road from McInerney Ford.

In the front row: 12 (white) Rangers, along with a single Escape (also white) and a single Transit (orange with black stripes).

Sure, there was probably other stuff hiding behind the above, but that was what they giving prime position on the lot.

I can’t resist this
Were you excited by the offering at this Ford dealer?

Secondly how’s the Puma going?

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Neither. It's pretty clear Ford are gearing towards Ranger/Everest only.

Mustang will be next to go, they will fulfill their current orders and then let it die. Mach E will disappear quietly due to lack of interest, F-150 has been cursed from the get-go and will be dropped due to quality control issues and a lack of trust by potential customers. All three are just too much hassle to source from the US. Then they will ride Transit out, drop it, then blame lack sales when in fact it was a lack of availability.

The Ranger and Everest will then be the sole contenders, quick, easy and highly profitable sales that require no marketing skill or effort. Typical approach from a lazy American company.

Prove me wrong.

If they are smart, like they were with the timing of Territory and Ranger, they will be working on a Tuk Tuk to introduce to Australia to match our GDP per capita figures and appeal to an increasing number of Australians.

[CyberWasp]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

We need someone to insult the CEO of Ford again so they pull the finger out

I will, i would love to.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

If they are smart, like they were with the timing of Territory and Ranger, they will be working on a Tuk Tuk to introduce to Australia to match our GDP per capita figures and appeal to an increasing number of Australians.

Suzuki has Ford beat already:

https://www.suzukimotorcycles.com.au...d/address-110/

[Sprintey]

You gotta admit they would help solve congestion in our cities.

Aussie Performance, 2035: Just like with Tickford in the 90's, British engineers are already working on these performance cars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_v4aKTBcVc

[smoo]

Originally Posted by minheim

My understanding is that Ford Europe never prioritized production for Ford Australia and hence we got insufficient numbers to properly promote and sell those models ordered. I also wondered if another factor was out unique Australian Design Rules. ADRs made sense when we had big local manufacturing but not so much for a RHD market that is small in terms of comparative volume and with lots of importers. Would be much simplier for manufacturers if we had rules better aligned with the big markets.

What specifically needs changing to suit ADR?

[In Focus]

Originally Posted by kevino

I can’t resist this
Were you excited by the offering at this Ford dealer?

Secondly how’s the Puma going?

I was not excited.

Puma's great - Mrs is happy with it.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by smoo

What specifically needs changing to suit ADR?

Good question, I wonder how many could just be stated as "per (insert Country Reg. X.X" instead of page after page of compliance requirements....
You'll need a bit of time, ..scroll down to
Full list of Third Edition ADRs

110 ADR's
https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/in...alian%20market.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I completely agree about the ADRs, t

When you're 0.00000001% of the global market why do we have specific rules? Its madness, who the **** is going to spend shitloads complying vehicles for our market specifically when you represent nothing?

its not just the ADRs either. We are still running shitty Euro 5 emissions, and selling us Eu6 cars carries a significant premium. Practically the only other RHD country in the world that still runs Eu5 is Thailand, and they aren't a passenger car market. Nobody is going to develop a Eu5 car just for us.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

its not just the ADRs either. We are still running shitty Euro 5 emissions, and selling us Eu6 cars carries a significant premium. Practically the only other RHD country in the world that still runs Eu5 is Thailand, and they aren't a passenger car market. Nobody is going to develop a Eu5 car just for us.

I'm assuming EU6 will come with the Australian standards review of our fuel as PPF aren't compatible with our shit fuel.

Was supposed to be 2027 for the review, unsure if they've brought it forward.

[simon varley]

hopefully. I was disappointed that Eu6 wasn't in the discussion for the new fuel standards, as this would have opened the door for a lot of great cars. In conjunction with scrapping ADRs in favor of ECE etc, this IMO is all that needs to be done

Improving our fuels to Eu6 quality though I guess won't be cheap and the petrol companies might not see any value if we are allegedly phasing out ICE :(

[Sprintey]

Wouldn't changing the fuel to EU6 be as easy as placing an order for it at Singapore? We've only got two domestic refineries left, surely quite a bit of the fuel is imported from very large offshore refineries that would be able to produce it easily?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Wouldn't changing the fuel to EU6 be as easy as placing an order for it at Singapore? We've only got two domestic refineries left, surely quite a bit of the fuel is imported from very large offshore refineries that would be able to produce it easily?

True but Probably costs more in subsidies for the govt so they aren't keen on doing it. Fuel is heavily subsidised in this country.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Wouldn't changing the fuel to EU6 be as easy as placing an order for it at Singapore? We've only got two domestic refineries left, surely quite a bit of the fuel is imported from very large offshore refineries that would be able to produce it easily?

who does Singapore supply? Few Asian countries are at Eu6 yet, so unless Europe itself actually sources from their, they may not actually have that fuel on tap

[Fast Eddie]

Originally Posted by kypez

I don't totally agree with this given the Laser did quite well. When Laser was replaced by Focus, that tanked. Not sure why but Australians just didn't warm up to Focus over Laser

Shiite marketing i.m.h.o. All of a sudden my MkI Focus is looking good. I'm not selling it. Ever.

[Fast Eddie]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Just had a look at FoA website.
In the performance area we have.
Ranger Raptor.
Mustang
Then Ford Performance, which includes both mustang/raptor and some blabbing about them coming to F1 and last years supercars.
Page is also dated 2022.
They've lost the plot IMO.
That FP area could have Fiesta/Focus ST, Mustang, Raptor (maybe a new Focus RS)
Ford US isnt really much better either having racecars listed in there which is pointless.
What a time to be alive as a Ford fan!

At the time, I knew exactly why F.A. badge-engineered the Focus ST (nee XR5-Turbo). To this day, I totally disagreed with their decision. Same with the "XR4".

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by simon varley

who does Singapore supply? Few Asian countries are at Eu6 yet, so unless Europe itself actually sources from their, they may not actually have that fuel on tap

Does Euro 6 fuel standard also require RON 95 as a minimum?
I don’t remember ever seeing ULP 91 unleaded being sold in Europe….


Also, China and India have introduced standards that are in line with Euro 6
Those are major consumers so there should be plenty of fuel supply when Australia switches

[kypez]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Does Euro 6 fuel standard also require RON 95 as a minimum?

I don’t remember ever seeing ULP 91 unleaded being sold in Europe….

Edit: it's more about the sulphur content in the fuel. There are limits for 91/95/98 and we're woefully lagging there.