Young driver accidents: what's the major issue?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Why can't i select both?

As both are equally the answer.

I woundn't say I'm an old driver, but the attitute I get from the younger drivers (who have been on the road less than 3 years) is amazing. I'm sick of it. I'm sick at looking at the smashed cars owned by these drivers too!!

Sorry but i didnt want any fence sitting.
I totally understand there is a mix of both, but even if its 51% to 49% im sure everyone can make a call one way or the other, so far it looks like a strong 60% say its attitude and driving behaviour... This is VERY interesting, especially in light of proposed solutions to the problem both by members here and the authorities..
I'll make my ideas clearer in a few days.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Wally

Do you know what % of 15 -24 yearold are on the road? For instance if there is a 31% death rate in that group, are they 31% of the road users at that time?

Well, in NSW having regard to the total number of P plate license holders in totality, both P1 and P2 stage, about 0.01% will die in road crashes. It is always a small minority that cause social impact to the majority of population of same, indeed this applies, generally to society at large.

But yes, accepting all that, 'young drivers' are involved in more crashes per capita (and joyous resultant outcome) than other age groups up till those above the age 70 group.

It is notable that we inevitably have 'more P platers killed and injured' than in past historical outcome, simply because we have larger numbers of them owing the P1 and P2 stage, and the 'length of time' they hold those licenses as a legislated minimum.

All in all things will balance out statisically over time.

The new approach to young driver safety involves increasing 'defensive driver' components, and 'idiot testing':-) to help weed out those requiring additional intervention. All part of the National Driver Training Scheme, hence why you see increasing harmonisation of 'systems' in Australia.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Sorry but i didnt want any fence sitting.
I totally understand there is a mix of both, but even if its 51% to 49% im sure everyone can make a call one way or the other, so far it looks like a strong 60% say its attitude and driving behaviour... This is VERY interesting, especially in light of proposed solutions to the problem both by members here and the authorities..
I'll make my ideas clearer in a few days.

I wouldn't say that by choosing both the voter is 'fence sitting'.
Both options are major contributers to the fatality of road users, there are other reasons also.
Maybe the poll needed more option with multi selection enabled.

[Dazza XLT]

They're both major contributors to accidents.
All I can say is I am glad I began driving out in the bush at an early age. It helped enormously when the time came to go for my licence.
Gained some good dirt road experience too.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

I wouldn't say that by choosing both the voter is 'fence sitting'.
Both options are major contributers to the fatality of road users, there are other reasons also.
Maybe the poll needed more option with multi selection enabled.

The reason i didnt allow multi selection will become clearer later....

E.G if you were to tackle the most prevelant issue first which issue would you tackle? Allowing only one choice makes people put a value (greater or lesser) on the importants of an issue, ultimately if we are to take seriously the results of the pole the issue with the most votes should be the issue that the Authorities tackle most seriously, im not saying dont tackle the other issue, but this way helps to prioritise effort and resourse.

[ef_classic]

Originally Posted by Jock260

i i still think the best way to learn to drive is out in the country with miles of open land just mucking around on the dirt with your dad or who ever

Thats it, i was driving around in our paddock since i was about 13.

[Jock260]

same here mate, you learn much faster, in a fun and safe place.

[Gobes32]

I am 23 and a young driver therefore i am biased. HOWEVER, i do not believe p platers are the be all and end all of bad drivers. If a young male takes off at a set of lights at a fast rate but steps off the throttle when he reaches the speed limit he is irresponsible but not nessesceraly a bad driver. If a 68 year old pensioner pulls out in front of you from a side street, and you just narrowly miss hitting them and then proceeds to travel at 45 in a 60 zone without realising what they just did, then they are a bad driver.

Unfortunately p platers and under 25's tend to feature in the papers is because when something goes pear shaped they are travelling at such a speed that it causes a major accident. How many times have you seen a young female in a excel etc go up the back of another car because she was not concentrating / talking on phone? Alternately how many times have males hit a pole / tree at night with no one else around because they were travelling too fast?

Us young people have a lot to answer for in terms of accident rates and the figures dont lie, we do feature highly. However you older guys must surely admit that it isn't just us young people who feature in accidents. We all do. The way to stop this is to be a man and admit that you could be a better driver and take the nessescary steps to ensure you do become just that. Your son / daughter might just follow in your footsteps.

[I FluXx I]

Originally Posted by acosta32

I am 23 and a young driver therefore i am biased. HOWEVER, i do not believe p platers are the be all and end all of bad drivers. If a young male takes off at a set of lights at a fast rate but steps off the throttle when he reaches the speed limit he is irresponsible but not nessesceraly a bad driver. If a 68 year old pensioner pulls out in front of you from a side street, and you just narrowly miss hitting them and then proceeds to travel at 45 in a 60 zone without realising what they just did, then they are a bad driver.

Unfortunately p platers and under 25's tend to feature in the papers is because when something goes pear shaped they are travelling at such a speed that it causes a major accident. How many times have you seen a young female in a excel etc go up the back of another car because she was not concentrating / talking on phone? Alternately how many times have males hit a pole / tree at night with no one else around because they were travelling too fast?

Us young people have a lot to answer for in terms of accident rates and the figures dont lie, we do feature highly. However you older guys must surely admit that it isn't just us young people who feature in accidents. We all do. The way to stop this is to be a man and admit that you could be a better driver and take the nessescary steps to ensure you do become just that. Your son / daughter might just follow in your footsteps.

Yep. And thats why I booked myself in for a defensive driving course

[XFshep]

so if these restrictions werent required 20 years ago, why are they required now?

**** im sick of people being wholly influenced by the media.

[Steffo]

Its definitley a hefty combination of both, but I the end I voted attitude. There's no denying many situations that happen, which people talk about needing skill to avoid safely, could have been completley avoided in the first place by a good driving attitude.

But then there's also ALOT of open licenced driver's with worse attitude then some young people. And I absolutley delight in seeing them get caught being idiots. Some things people do is shocking, and then when you see its a 40 y/o behind the wheel, you have to wonder.

[iCat]

unfortunately, a good bingle in your pride and joy is possibly the biggest wake-up call you could request. but that can only apply to those who actually take pride in their rides. to look at some elements of tossers on the roads, old and young, who drive their crap boxes beyond sanity, and still believe they are capable drivers, is beyond belief. perhaps they need to be taken out with the ses and ambo's for the ride of their lives on a friday and saturday night, and see the aftermath of what can go wrong.

[GasoLane]

As a (very) old driver I find it amusing that the media, and in part this forum, is concerned about a minority of drivers under 21.

Of course you're going to get hoons. I used to be one. But I've found the worst age group on highways seems to be between around 30-45. There the ones you see with the car loaded with mum and the kids doing really stupid things, not speeding (of course) just being stupid.

A good example was a couple of years ago when I was heading home (in the truck) from Syd one night in thick fog at 100kmh. I caught up 2 young blokes in a ute doing about 80kmh. They saw me, pulled over and let me pass so they could follow me, rightly thinking I knew the road. A little while later we catch up Mum and Dad in their Magna doing about 70kmh. For the next 20k's Dad, who was driving, sped up to 80, got scared jumped on the brakes down to 50, then up to 80 again and so it went.

I know who I'd rather have been a passenger with!

[I FluXx I]

Bloody older people! Iv got my P's and do the speed limit. And what do I get. People tail gating me, people speeding past me yelling or beeping there horns. when you do the limit, you realise how many people speed. Going on the highway in the morning doing 100, everyone is overtaking you.

Its a ***** being a P plater. You do the right thing and go the limit and people get anoyed at you. You speeding are you are called a hoon. Even if the people who call you a hoon, speed just as much.

BAH!

[Bill_R]

Originally Posted by I FluXx I

Bloody older people! Iv got my P's and do the speed limit. And what do I get. People tail gating me, people speeding past me yelling or beeping there horns. when you do the limit, you realise how many people speed. Going on the highway in the morning doing 100, everyone is overtaking you.


BAH!

News: that has nothing to do with age. It effects everyone!

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by I FluXx I

Bloody older people! Iv got my P's and do the speed limit. And what do I get. People tail gating me, people speeding past me yelling or beeping there horns. when you do the limit, you realise how many people speed. Going on the highway in the morning doing 100, everyone is overtaking you.

Its a ***** being a P plater. You do the right thing and go the limit and people get anoyed at you. You speeding are you are called a hoon. Even if the people who call you a hoon, speed just as much.

BAH!

Happened to me quite a bit too. I even got overtaken in a 50 zone once. It's great being on a full licence though, such a turn around from all the **** you have copped.

I drive exactly the same way as I used to, bar the P plates and what do you know I'm suddenly not given **** except for boyricers in their shitboxes.

The P plate is only there for a target and serves no purpose at all.

People say it's letting people know that you might not be as experienced is a load of crap and an insult to those who dare to think for themselves, as all it has even been is a point of prejudice.

You should trust no one on the road anyway and always try to prepare for their next move.

On behalf of the younger drivers I'm pleased to say you're doing a great job at leading by example /end sarcasm

Yes we are generally less experienced, so what the hell is your excuse older generation?

[Hardtopxb]

LOL.. Older generation excuse?..Older drivers usually dont participate in VIC type HOON riots..Its unbecoming.. We just loose interest.. :hihi:

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Hardtopxb

LOL.. Older generation excuse..Older drivers usually dont participate in VIC type HOON riots..Its unbecoming..

May not but they are still a heap load of those whos driving is woefull. What's their excuse? They are so experienced yet are just as bad.

[Hardtopxb]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

May not but they are still a heap load of those whos driving is woefull. What's their excuse? They are so experienced yet are just as bad.

Mate.As with everyone, young or old, there good and bad drivers.Experience is a definate advantage,old or young..It's just that most older drivers in general are more experienced..

[dmat2391]

on an interesting note, some say that younger people have quicker reaction times etc... That's not strictly correct. As the human brain ages the synapsis slow in formation and new connections (grey matter) are less frequent but the sheathing (white matter) around our brain cell nerve endings thicken IE: the fatty insulation. The upshot of all this is with better insulation the brains electrical currents can actually travel faster and more accurately. Older people have faster reaction times than young people.
Therefore younger people need fatter heads!!
ps. saw all this on a show called catalyst abc. Young hot chick beaten hands down by a 45 yr old geezer in a computer simulation

[buickman]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

May not but they are still a heap load of those whos driving is woefull. What's their excuse? They are so experienced yet are just as bad.

Its like a lot of things you do in life some can do certain tasks better. Than others and that includes driving on public roads
When I was in my late teens & early 20's I to was hooning but as your priorities change in life so does your behaviour in risk taking. & in 35 years of driving in 3 countries I have been very fortunate to have only been involved in 3 minor accidents 1 my fault & 2 were not.

[Des]

Both, depends on whether male or female.
Here's a fact (from NSW Ambulance) for you though:
In NSW, P plate drivers make up 9% of the driving population, yet are responsible for 41% of road fatalities....

[jimmy_c]

Simple things we need.

**EDUCATION - Road safety not stupid hollywood type adverts.
**Proper driver testing.

** Somewhere for guys and gals to show off there toys or bombs (what have you) other than in main centres. and to drive fast legaly.


** Remove old codgers and dip shits like screwby that cause more problems than fixing them.

** stop the media beat up. Things that do matter like lack of water and the inability of certain govt. members doing nothing for us yet spending our money.

[aussiblue]

There was an interesting front page in today's "The West Australian Newspaper" titled "'Big Brother's Plan to Slow Speeders". The Main Roads Department is reported as testing a system (Intelligent Speed Adaption system) that notifies drivers via sat nav of local speed limits then if he does not reduce speed forces the accelerator pedal back remotely controlling his speed. 50 vehicles including government vehicles (the poor maligned public servants being used as test dummies again) taxis and some commercial vehicles will be trialling the system and the WA Road Safety Council Chair, Grant Dorrington, said the council is considering that the system being made manadatory for novice drivers and recidivist speeders. Fitting this system plus the every increasing lengthy system for getting P plates in WA is going to make getting a licence in WA a very expensive exercise I suspect (or perhaps the nanny State will rent them out). I can see the case for using this with recidivists speeder or any recidivist offenders and those with extraordinary drivers' licences (those that have lost their licences but have been allowed to drive due to job requirements etc) but unless the State is going to pick up most of the cost I suspect it may put driving licences out of the econimic reach of many.

[aussiblue]

The article also said research by Monash Uni had indicated that the system was expected to reduce road fatalities by 8%. If this proves true I guess there is a case (however much we may hate the idea and however much it might appear to infringe on our freedom) to fit it to all cars. The thin edge of the wedge perhaps; who knows in another 10 years all our cars may all be totally remotely driven. I guess one way or the other that's where we are headed; but even when that happens I am sure people will still find a way to kill themselves and others with cars.

[Den.]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

I wonder about the older car issue. From my experiences I know there is nothing like driving an old car with crossply tires, drum brakes and cart spring suspension to make you drive very very carefully as you just know you can't stop in a hurry or corner fast and there is no air bags or crumple zone if you crash. In addition to my Fords and various other cars I also have a very original EH Holden panel van and I know on the few occasions when I drive it this already very careful driver drives very much more carefully. My first car was also a Mini Moke with slide when wet winter tread tyres, drum brakes and very rudimentary safety gear (headrests, lap seat belts and crumple zone) and you certainly felt somewhat vulnerable driving it.

Perhaps younger drivers would actually drive more carefully if they were driving cars in which they felt more vulnerable.

Ok everyone under 21 into you used Fiat/FSM Nikis please :newangel:

It's actually a fact here that accidents, most noticibly rear enders went up when antilock brakes became standard equipment due to drivers following too close. Same thing happened with airbags. They believe themselves to be invincible and don't care about accidents as "that's what insurance is for." (I've actually heard people say that too!)


Young or old it's the same reason. Driving is considered "safe". It used to be preached that the single most dangerous activity you will do each day is get behind the wheel.

But the young are not taught and we old people forget.

And we're encouraged NOT to pay attention. We are encouraged to do ANYTHING but drive!

Cellphones, incar Email, GPS NAV systems, radar operated cruise, Power receptacles for our laptops and passenger seats designed to fold down and accomodate them (WTF????!!!), FRONT parking sensors (WTF Volvo?????!!!!! Jesus!!!!!), Self parking systems, Lane departure warning systems, and more. ALL which are already here!!! Not "the future" but HERE NOW!!

And we wonder why people can't (be bothered to) drive?

Someone crashes and we blame the road so it gets resurfaced/rerouted. We blame the car and add even MORE "safety" crap. It just CAN'T be the idiot driving, could it? NAH!! Better to sue someone than to take responsibilty!

We got graduated licensing shoved down our throats many years ago and the arguement was "Well, they have it in Australia!". THAT was the actual ARGUEMENT for it!! I'd ask people what THAT has to do with it and they'd get blank and just repeat, "But they have it in Australia." Uh. So?

THEN, the first year it was in place the government boasted how the accident rates among 16 year has DROPPED!! Well, DUH, they can't DRIVE!!!! But the "public" seemed to have missed that fact and they all said "see, told you it would work!" HAHAHA. TRUE STORY!!

We had photoradar here (Ontario) for awhile. the arguement was similiar. "Well, Alberta (Another province here) has it" And "In Alberta it slowed people down." but it was kind of left out that ALSO in Alberta accident rates went UP!!

So we got that too. And accident rates went UP!! But they left that out and said "Average traffic flow has slowed down."

Yeah it did. It was torture! Over 120 km/h and you were nailed. We literally couldn't get anywhere, the roads were CLOGGED!!

I got one ticket. They set the things at 120 km/h and I got nailed fpr 121. HAHA. Even my Dad got nailed!! And he was one of those drivers who drove SO slow that other drivers would honk at him (He never noticed!!) and swerve around him in no passing areas swearing at him!! Heeheehee.

Ah but sweet revenge. When we got rid of the photoradar vans we sold them to ALBERTA!! HAHAHAHAHAA!!!! out:

Drive safe everyone. :evil3:

Originally Posted by dmat2391

ps. saw all this on a show called catalyst abc. Young hot chick beaten hands down by a 45 yr old geezer in a computer simulation

With or without her cellphone?

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

As the title says, what do you think is the main issue? i realise there is a component of both, but which one stands out as being the main one, Is it lack of driver skills? or is it poor attitude to driving carefully and responsibly?

Behaviour, which incorporates much of the above and this thread. Australia is very soft of stupid behaviour, we 'protect' the stupid and make the majority suffer dumbed-down enforcement levels and restrictions.

I have attended many crashes and the last fatal involved a stupid young man who's actions caused the death of a young female passenger.

Skylarking is stupid, I won't take your car because I don't accept 'the state' should take personal property, generally, but I would goal you two years for hoon/skylarking offences.

That is turn would not make me popular with young, and mid aged left-wing 'reformist' lawyers.

We are not serious about the road toll. (Yet).

[TFXR8.50L]

Originally Posted by jimmy_c

Simple things we need.

**EDUCATION - Road safety not stupid hollywood type adverts.
**Proper driver testing.

** Somewhere for guys and gals to show off there toys or bombs (what have you) other than in main centres. and to drive fast legaly.


** Remove old codgers and dip shits like screwby that cause more problems than fixing them.

** stop the media beat up. Things that do matter like lack of water and the inability of certain govt. members doing nothing for us yet spending our money.

you are so right man i am a p plater i am 20 though i cant even drive down the street without getting foul looks from all the older drivers because of the media beat up,
As for the permanetly open dragstrip and burnout pad well were else can we show off our rides and have a bet with our mates about who's car is faster without getting cought by the cops or indangering someone elses life that really doesn't want to be evolved in our fun, the only thing is with this it would cost a fortune and you would never be insured.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

(the poor maligned public servants being used as test dummies again)

Who said public serpents were useless.

Originally Posted by aussiblue

WA Road Safety Council Chair,

This mob sounds like the 'Experts' we have here in NSW, **Road Safety Advisory Board or something** these people once said the way to stop crashes was to ban overtaking on single lane roads! WTF!!

[Den.]

The best way to stop accidents (or Crashes as most are far from accidental!) is to ban ALL of us from driving at all! HAHAHAHAAA!!!!


Hmmm. Better not give them any ideas..........