New ZF 8

[grey_esp]

To be honest I reckon our ZF XR8 could do with another cog between 1st and 2nd. All the rest seam pretty good but those 2 ratios just always seam to be too far apart.

[BHDOGS]

8 speed falcon what a load of bollocks if they bring this out ill go buy a chinese made truck

[naddis01]

Our Fendt tractor has a CVT and ~1400Nm. I know it wouldnt be as refined as those used in cars and would weigh way too much but the technology is possible. You dont even have to worry about what revs you need as the tractor works all that out for you.

It also has stability control, cruise control (x2), hydropneumatic suspension, GPS etc...

[388cube_edxr8]

LOL your tractor is better equipped than my Falcon.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Our Fendt tractor has a CVT and ~1400Nm...

And your gearbox rebuild compared to a conventional box is?

CVT are par for the course in ATV circles, and yes are being used more in cars, Nissan Murano for example (which are failing badly and cost a gazillion dollars to fix).

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by 388cube_edxr8

LOL your tractor is better equipped than my Falcon.

Probably worth more than a few Falcons too.

[Michael_F90]

I think the only potential market for an 8 speed box is in europe where they can drive there cars on the autobarn at huge speeds. In Australia its a bit pointless.
Just my 2cents anyway

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by data_mine

Probably worth more than a few Falcons too.

Well the number starts with a 2 or even a 3 depending on options. So yeah a few Falcons.

[Des Flurane]

The new Rolls Royce Ghost will come with the 8 speed.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

With a max speed of 110 you would never get to use any above 6 anyway. 7 and 8 would still be new in a 5yo car

God they don't keep the same ratio's and just +2.

A T5 revs slightly higher in 5th at 100 than a BTR does in 4th.

You could have 10 gears to 40k's if you wanted.

[Falc'man]

In the day when an engine's powerband was a lot narrower than we have today, they had half the number of gears. These days we have peak torque spreads from 1500-5500rpm with 6sp boxes and it's still "insufficient"?

When does a person get to hear the motor rev more than 3000rpm, and really enjoy the revs rise, in an 8sp?

I imagine a 10sp box would sound like you've hit the limiter.

[tezxr8man]

drove a lancer with CVT and you couldn't pay me to drive another, the box didnt knw what to do, they don't even change the fluid in them, apparently its good for the life of the trans, find it hard to believe tho don't the car companies ever use the KISS principle any more jus cram as much crap in a car as you can and hope for the best

[Buzz Box]

Originally Posted by Michael_F90

I think the only potential market for an 8 speed box is in europe where they can drive there cars on the autobarn at huge speeds. In Australia its a bit pointless.

I have to agree otherwise you'll forever be changing. Well unless NT change back to the unlimited

[388cube_edxr8]

A lot of people seem to be forgetting that an auto tranny will slot into top gear no matter what speed you are going unless you are accelerating. All 8 gears means is that it will rev lower on the highway and either have faster get-up-and-go or be really jerky when accelerating.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by 388cube_edxr8

A lot of people seem to be forgetting that an auto tranny will slot into top gear no matter what speed you are going unless you are accelerating. All 8 gears means is that it will rev lower on the highway and either have faster get-up-and-go or be really jerky when accelerating.

I'm sure that's not the case. It will select a gear that does the optimum economical rpm for the speed.

Example is the 4sp auto in BA-BF. It won't shift into 4th gear until it hits 75km/h. So if you're cruise speed is 70km/h you're stuck in third.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

I'm sure that's not the case. It will select a gear that does the optimum economical rpm for the speed.

Example is the 4sp auto in BA-BF. It won't shift into 4th gear until it hits 75km/h. So if you're cruise speed is 70km/h you're stuck in third.

Correct, you dont want to load the engine up.

The ZF6 wont even let you manually shift into 6th if your below certain speeds.

[merlin]

Anyone driven a CVT before? I have in a few cars and was quite impressed. Infinite number of "gears" and the fuel saving is quite substancial. The problem with them though is they don't feel "sporty" as there is no firm shift (just feels like a slipping clutch till you get used to it.

I reckon base model and luxury Falcons should get the CVT whilst sports models could go the ZF 8 speed in the future.

Though personally i'd love to see an XR6T or XR8 with a DSG box. Think it would be a perfect match.

[xtremerus]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

I'm sure that's not the case. It will select a gear that does the optimum economical rpm for the speed.

Example is the 4sp auto in BA-BF. It won't shift into 4th gear until it hits 75km/h. So if you're cruise speed is 70km/h you're stuck in third.

I think it's the lockup of 4th gear, that cut in about 75kph

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by vztrt

The ZF6 wont even let you manually shift into 6th if your below certain speeds.

About 60 in a stocker. On mine (with shorter diff), I can cruise along in 6th at about 50.

Add bonus is the ZFis one smart box. After changing the diff, no edit was required for it to know the 'new' shift points. It all just worked.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

I think it's the lockup of 4th gear, that cut in about 75kph

Do you have to know? It's third all the way to 75km/h.

[Matt P]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

8 speed falcon what a load of bollocks if they bring this out ill go buy a chinese made truck

I've got bad news for you mate I'll think you will be the proud owner of a Great Wall sooner than you think.

[geckoGT]

BMW was another manufacturer that had CVT for a number of years, they were fitted to the auto Mini Cooper and Cooper S from 2002-2006. Interestingly it was not very well liked and in the current model they changed back to a conventional auto which has been reviewed as an improvement.

[2.8L Hilux]

Like others have said here, I think 8 gears is overkill. It will feel too much like a CVT. The current 1.5L Mitsubishi Colt's are CVT and they FLY. You put your foot down at any speed and the revs shoot to 6000rpm and stay there. No hunting around for the right gear just peak power all of the time.

I'd never have one though. I think 6 gears is the limit.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by merlin

Anyone driven a CVT before? I have in a few cars and was quite impressed. Infinite number of "gears" and the fuel saving is quite substancial. The problem with them though is they don't feel "sporty" as there is no firm shift (just feels like a slipping clutch till you get used to it.

I reckon base model and luxury Falcons should get the CVT whilst sports models could go the ZF 8 speed in the future.

Though personally i'd love to see an XR6T or XR8 with a DSG box. Think it would be a perfect match.

Yeah it sounds boring. I'd rather hear the revs climb with every gear. DSG ftw!

[chief]

There are many reasons to fit more gears in a transmission. Its not to annoy owners who like to hear an engine rev. If the cons outweighed the pros do you think car companies would implement this technology. Of course not.

Having more gears means the engine does not have to rev as hard to get to the speed limit.

The car will produce less emissions with a transmission with more gears compared to an identical car with fewer gears.

Fuel economy will improve.

Rolling acceleration will be quicker (say from 40km/h to 60km/h or from 80km/h to 110km/h) as there will be an optimum gear for the transmission to be in.

What about manufacturers that do not want to have the occupants hearing the motor strain as its trying to get to the speed limit. Such as high end Mercs and BMWs plus the luxury Maybach, Bentley, Rolls Royce etc

Provides a **** factor for people to own. How many people here with Brembos brag their brake caliper has the same if not more pistons than a 4 or 6 cylinder car. Same rule applies to transmissions.

These transmissions are not gong into Hyundais and Suzukis they are aiming at a different market altogether.

Should transmission manufacturers stop developing new transmissions and new technologies. Oh well we have got a 6 speed auto, we should stop R + D and just keep selling the same transmissions for the next 20 years. Would you as the consumer want the same transmission you could get 20 years ago? 3 speed auto anyone? ZF are a highly regarded company and leed the way for product development.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by chief

There are many reasons to fit more gears in a transmission. Its not to annoy owners who like to hear an engine rev. If the cons outweighed the pros do you think car companies would implement this technology. Of course not.

Having more gears means the engine does not have to rev as hard to get to the speed limit.

The car will produce less emissions with a transmission with more gears compared to an identical car with fewer gears.

Fuel economy will improve.

Rolling acceleration will be quicker (say from 40km/h to 60km/h or from 80km/h to 110km/h) as there will be an optimum gear for the transmission to be in.

What about manufacturers that do not want to have the occupants hearing the motor strain as its trying to get to the speed limit. Such as high end Mercs and BMWs plus the luxury Maybach, Bentley, Rolls Royce etc

Provides a **** factor for people to own. How many people here with Brembos brag their brake caliper has the same if not more pistons than a 4 or 6 cylinder car. Same rule applies to transmissions.

These transmissions are not gong into Hyundais and Suzukis they are aiming at a different market altogether.

Should transmission manufacturers stop developing new transmissions and new technologies. Oh well we have got a 6 speed auto, we should stop R + D and just keep selling the same transmissions for the next 20 years. Would you as the consumer want the same transmission you could get 20 years ago? 3 speed auto anyone? ZF are a highly regarded company and leed the way for product development.

Well said, best post so far.

[chevypower]

I think people have this misconception that some things offer all these benefits and zero drawbacks. Eg. Audi and VW just had a massive recall on DSG cars with symptoms knows as "the flash of death." (based on dashboard warning lights flashing). DSG offers the benefits of reduced fuel consumption, and less wasted energy. But the drawbacks are it just does not feel smooth like a regular auto. CVT feels like a slipping clutch as mentioned, and where they have really been tested like on snowmobiles and ATVs, well they are still designed to rev hard at high speeds. They don't idle at 1200rpm while cruising at high speeds. CVTs haven't really been made to work at all on big cars, let alone making them work better than a regular auto. So talking about how good they would be is pointless and all theoretical. Regular autos have the benefits of feeling smooth, and being reliable, but the drawbacks are increased fuel consumption, and perhaps lower acceleration than the potential of DSG.
So I don't think there is one technology which is better than any other in every single way.
While I don't see the point of an 8 speed auto on a car, I do see the point of it on an F350 diesel. Use the first gear as a crawler, and the 8th as an overdrive. 1-7 would be used in tow/haul mode, and 2-8 would be used for regular driving. But even on those, regular 4-6 speed autos have done the job just fine for pulling the heaviest loads.
And as for R&D. There are plenty of other ways to improve cars than just keep adding more gears. I can think of plenty of things that were marketed as bigger numbers meant further progression. Then the shift of focus would move on to something else.
Some examples:
cars: valves, cams, cylinders, tailpipes,
movies: aspect ratio (for a while I thought we would end up with 1 pixel high by 10,000,000 pixels wide).
surround channels. (first it was mono, then stereo, then 4 channel, then 5.1, then 7.1) - then there were theories about doing 20+ channels and how awesome it would be, but then it moved on to resolution
film, 2K, 4K, 6K, 8K now RED are talking about this 28K camera....
Are you really going to think 4K is blurry?
It's ALWAYS about numbers at some point in time. It's more about the market and the competition than really having the best product.

[lyonsy]

a lot of the reason for all these extra gears is to cheat pass emission testing with having the engine at its most effiecent in regards to emssions,its why since around the mid 90's 5-6-7 speed auto's manual's have become main stream.
if they decided to release a 8 speed good on them the 6 speed is awsome so cant wait till they have an 8 speed.