VF SSV- Redline vs SC FPV GT-P

[Rodge]

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...5A943F2F8599A3

[ebxr8240]

I must say in NZ a good handling car is tops being ther's always a corner or hill in short distance compared to outback Australia... The turbo diesel type torque with heavy vehicle is nice too !Some like 200kw with 600nm torque or there a bouts makes for nice lazy driving if required.. With half decent economy ..

[mcnews]

LOL, you guys do know that about 1 per cent of the population or less is anywhere near the outback :-) Everyone else is pretty much in coastal based cities are large regional centres.

[mr_xlr8]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Hey Rodge Ive driven a 270 kw SS redline manual and it was pretty slow! Very refined and quiet but yes didn't even feel as racey as my old mans 2006 Calais 6.0 did.

Thought about a 340kw SV pack R8? One of my friends just got one of these and its a damn nice car, and feels as quick as a 335 GT. She paid 78k here for hers but its fully optioned with the SV pack, sunroof etc. Ive seen standard Clubsports advertised here for $53 k in manual guise. Not bad really considering what you get!!! I'm waiting for the XR8 to come and see what its like (and if its around the 55k mark), otherwise Ill be getting a HSV of some description, cant miss an opportunity to get one of the last aussie made v8s.

Can you take some pics!!

Might feel like the R8 is as quick, believe me, it is not.

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by Rodge

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...5A943F2F8599A3

Does that mean your not going to get the Redline now ?

Good choice by the way

[jimt3te50]

Originally Posted by Rodge

GTS...hmmm. I would have thought you were a certainty to vote for 350 rwkw's plus with the work you've done on your car . Here I've been for all this time labouring under the misapprehension from all you younger blokes that Wolfie is useless without a tune..who would have thought that they're actually very good stock standard

The point of the poll I felt was to get a feeling for what is considered enough power for a rewarding drive. It's not about power. To say a car isnt rewarding to drive without 350+ at the treads is ignorant to other aspects of the car.

What makes a car fun to drive is the ability to push it to the limit. The more competent something becomes the harder it is to find that limit. You go and wring the neck on a Toyota 86 or an MX5, something like that, they are a blast to drive. Go and push a modified GT/P with 500 at the wheels, a capable suspension and moster brakes and most people will beyond their comfort and safety level trying to extract that thrill of the drive. The sensation is different- it's now frightening how well they perform.

That's what I want from my car, because I never would have believed I could get that sensation of power from anything that wasn't an exotic and was still so easy to live with everyday.

And clearly, you're not ready for that or just not interested in it. Exactly why, perplexes everyone here.

IMO, you're selling the wrong car. It is easier to come up with a replacement for the S Class. That's the older one- it's had its fair share of documented woes, it's the one with the aging technology and it's the one that clearly offers no actual thrill of ownership. It's a soulless European diesel saloon that's great for long trips on the highway.

I'm offering this opinion in sincereity. You would get a more accurate take on the SSV Redline vs FPV SC GT-P topic by registering on ls1.com.au and getting an opinion from the other side. The very car you are quibbling about (being the 2011 GT-P) is the pinnacle of Ford offerings and the very car that the majority here would kill for and aspire to own. You're throwing that in our faces by saying you want to downgrade to a Commodore with some electronics.

This is a Ford Forum Rodge, we're not going to be part of your Ford Lynch Mob. You're a minority on this one here mate and you're not going to get the green light and thumbs up from the majority of people here.

If I were to summarise- this is a stupid comparison in every way that makes sense to me. In my humble opinion of course.

[stevanford]

To me, Too much power is when you start to affect the driveability of the car in the pursuit of peak power. (ie. turbo lag, overly loud etc)

At 400rwkw, my G6ET is as easy to drive as it was when it was standard and with the tyres and brakes that I use, I'd say that it handles and stops better than standard.

For me, 350+ is what I feel is best.

TBH, I think you'll be best off with the GTS. The torque and power of the GT but a far better performance package in terms of Braking and handling. Not to mention the technology that you are fond of.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by mr_xlr8

Might feel like the R8 is as quick, believe me, it is not.

I've done back to back testing with VE SS vs a FG XR8 (old 290). Separately the SS always felt fast, the XR8 doughy. But when alongside each other in a half day of driving and swapping cars, the XR8 beat the SS every time. That's the "feel fast" instead of being fast.

And having driven many SSV's for 4 years, and owing a 335, GTE and a fully loaded Benz for tech. I think I'm qualified to say, and I dont meant to be offensive, but if you sell a 335 GTP that you would now have some equity in to buy and SS you're an idiot.

[dawsman]

Rodge, coming from a stock 2011 335 owner for 2.5 years who was tempted to trade it on a c63 AMG (and a lot of debt) earlier this year, all I can say is just get a good quality cat-back exhaust fitted. You will fall in love with the car all over again. I had a 3" Manta cat-back fitted ~3 weeks ago, and have driven the car almost every day since (I usually take the train to work). I still can't believe the quality of sound from these cars just with a cat-back. I went with centre hot dogs instead of mufflers for added effect

If you want to go the full exhaust+cats route and get it tuned, all the better. But from reading your posts I don't think you're up for that. I'm the same, all I have now is the exhaust and K&N filter, and the only other planned mod is suspension (handling and lowering).

[Rodge]

You're throwing that in our faces by saying you want to downgrade to a Commodore with some electronics.

This is a Ford Forum Rodge, we're not going to be part of your Ford Lynch Mob.

A lot of emotional overload there mate. Please take a step back. Nobody is trying to lynch Ford as you suggest, just looking for some feedback on what people believe is necessary in terms of power for a satisfying drive and looking to have a rational and objective comparison between the two cars, something most everyone else posting on here appears to understand is the nature of the thread.

Had hoped to have a drive report today, believe it or not some people like to make objective comparisons. Isn't going to happen for a few days now. Thanks for your suggestion on the other car but I'll take a pass on that...you never know there could just be a reason or three why they're such incredibly popular luxury cars. Please keep it on topic if you wish to make further comments on this thread, nobody has a gun to your head making you read the thread mate...
Your suggestion on the GTS or nothing added an intersting perspective. Thank you for that contribution to the thread.

and I dont meant to be offensive, but if you sell a 335 GTP that you would now have some equity in to buy and SS you're an idiot.

If you didn't mean to offend a nicer way of putting that would have been to suggest I would regrett the trade. Unless you've driven a new VF SSV Redline then I'd suggest someone like Adrenaline is more qualified to give objective advice especially when he backs it up with test reviews.

Lets try and keep this a polite, rational and civil debate., surely that isn't too much to ask...or is it ?

[dragons90]

I've got a modded fg mkI F6 and a mkII xr6 ute and I know which I love to drive it ain't the one with more tech. Most of the things listed chould be changed aftermarket and you'd end with the faster car without chopping a massive hit in depreciation.
Colour Head Up Display
Forward Collision Alert
Lane Departure Warning
Blind Spot Alert Unless you've got a ute with a blind spot that would hide a semi that's what mirrors are for
My Link system - Voice Activated MKI has voice control with iphone
8 inch Touch Screen Display Gets old fast, harder to change radio stations then the MKI and ends up coved in finger prints
Active Fuel Management - Cylinder deactivation - This matters when 98 Octane is $2.33 a litre Not much gain
Ability to Run on much cheaper 91 Octane
11.8 l/100 km's vs 13.7L/100 km's for SC GT-P If you have to accelerate harder to make up for the lack of power could it end up worse
Satellite Navigation Looked at aftermarker touchscreen sat nav for the f6 but for the amount I'd use it, its cheaper to use iphone maps over Bluetooth handsfree
Reversing Traffic Alert
Rear View Camera Ford can install this
Trailer Sway Control, (Could be useful, thinking of buying a trailer boat)
FE3 Sports Suspension Shockworks
Launch control Only used at the track and easy in a auto one foot flat on brake one foot flat on throttle release brake when ready
Competition mode dynamic stability control Competition mode =Off
Electric tilt and slide Sunroof
8 way power adjustment of drivers seat
Powered lumbar support
Squared off steering wheel at bottom, (more thigh room)
Lower seating position Hear about it in every wheels review but have no problem with it
LED daytime running lamps w**k
Bose Premium audio - is it really better than Ford's so called premium audio ? Speaker upgrade
Automatic park assist - doubtful I'd ever use this but might be good for the Mrs
Front and rear Park assist
Keyless entry and push button start
275 rear tyres Can be done aftermarket
Projector headlamps Unless it HID there worse then the MKI
Rain sensing wipers
Illuminated controls on steering wheel

[Auslandau]

..... you forgot the pathetic weak chassis that a few bang on about. I got into mine today and again I thought ..... Boy, I wish my chassis was stronger. I have broken it twice now!

OH! The big hole in floor of the boot ..... you know ..... where you can put stuff where they don't roll around and gives you that bit more space. The editors are always knocking that one!

The tiny little hole in the back seat of a C'Dore is just perfect for ...... nothing? They fixed that in the VF? You know? The practical stuff?

The seating position! If I sat any lower I would have to sit on a crate to see! Maybe because I am only 5'9''. I find it very comfy!

Also ...... drove the freeway again today. Managed to change lanes successfully by looking! Amazing it was.

[pottery beige]

best drives, and the best cars i have ever owned

are the ones without all the bs

bit less omg the stezza is a multi function polis

just drive the ******* car

[Rodge]

You're right Auslandau, the public must be a complete bunch of morons for buying the Commordore over the Falcon in unprecedented numbers, something like a five to one ratio at present. How could so many people be so incredibly stupid to ignore the Falcon when its quite clearly a vastly superior vehicle in every single way. Must be the vulcan mind meld Holden put on everyone or the subliminal advertising....or here's a thought, could it just be that the new VF is a bloody good car worthy of at least a proper evaluation ?

[dragons90]

These are the same people who wanted to support Australia, so they bought a mkI cruise or captiva. Not the brightest bunch.

[Motorbreath310]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

OH! The big hole in floor of the boot ..... you know ..... where you can put stuff where they don't roll around and gives you that bit more space. The editors are always knocking that one!

The seating position! If I sat any lower I would have to sit on a crate to see! Maybe because I am only 5'9''. I find it very comfy!

The recessed boot floor - I've noticed the magazines failed to see the sense in it over a flat floor - why? I thought it was a great idea! And the seating position thing I don't understand. I loved my (cloth-equipped) FG F6, and found it a lot more comfortable than most other cars. Also, I didn't find the seating position in the VE to be any better. Perhaps the higher waistline alluded to a supposedly lower seating position? Or maybe the press cars just didn't have seat base height adjustment? (I'm 6'1 ish btw)

[gcg2503]

I have driven a few SSV redlines. Manual and auto.

I think you will disappointed with approx 60-80 less rwkw across the rev range.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by dragons90

These are the same people who wanted to support Australia, so they bought a mkI cruise or captiva. Not the brightest bunch.

Thanks, that explains it then. Buyers of VF Holden Commodore's are all dim witted bogans. Sounds like a really "plausible" explanation.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by gcg2503

I have driven a few SSV redlines. Manual and auto.

I think you will disappointed with approx 60-80 less rwkw across the rev range.

Thanks, you're like a breath of fresh air. Some good feedback based on actual experience (not pre-conceived brand prejudice and moral outrage for daring to even compare the two cars). I tend to think you'll probably be right.

[gcg2503]

Truth be told.

I love the look of the VF. Both SSV and the HSV.

love the trim and wheel combinations as well.

Having driven them I have been underwhelmed.

The Miami motor is truly 8th wonder of the world. Maybe the 9th, after the turbo 6 cyl Barra.

[Elks]

The recessed boot floor is brilliant in two ways.

1. It stops stuff rolling around hitting quarter panels etc.

2. Even better. You can get a full size 26" suitcase standing on its side and still have most of the space left.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Rodge

You're right Auslandau, the public must be a complete bunch of morons for buying the Commordore over the Falcon in unprecedented numbers, something like a five to one ratio at present. How could so many people be so incredibly stupid to ignore the Falcon when its quite clearly a vastly superior vehicle in every single way. Must be the vulcan mind meld Holden put on everyone or the subliminal advertising....or here's a thought, could it just be that the new VF is a bloody good car worthy of at least a proper evaluation ?

..... but why should everyone be forced to love it? There are choices to be made and people make them based on what they want, enjoy, afford .... etc. More people want Holdens than Fords? Yes. There are more Holden fan boys than Ford fan boys. That is a statistical fact and has been the way since I was driving T models.

On your basis, what sells more means better ..... in order of the BEST cars out there:

1.Mazda 3 – 4561
2.Toyota Corolla – 2941
3.Toyota HiLux – 2544
4.Hyundai i30 – 2486
5.Holden Commodore – 2364
6.Ford Focus – 2074
7.Mazda CX-5 – 1853
8.Ford Ranger – 1617
9.Volkswagen Golf – 1557
10.Hyundai ix35 – 1496

....... so we scrap all 'vs' threads, close up shop and all buy Mazda 3's. Case closed, end of story? Afraid so. But WAIT! No AMG? No M series? No Jags? No Audi's? Thought they would be better than a Hyundai i30 ..... but I must be wrong. But I thought everyone had to like and buy what others liked! Is that why the Mazda sells? Next door has one so they must be good?

But no ..... people actually buy what they want, need, afford, like, use to, etc and no one has the right to bag that decision, whether someone buys a Ford, Holden, Merc ... what ever.

BUT (again) .... just check what this forum is about? Fords? Like it or not, there will be bias and people who LOVE their Fords and really do not need to justify why they do. Reality is though, it is pretty hard sometimes to bit your tongue while others love sinking the boots into their cars, intentionally or not.

You and a few others want a VF? Great!!!!! But don't find the majority here backing your decision. Some will understand why ...... others will be perplexed on the reasoning .... the rest will be abhorrent to the idea.

In doing any sort of 'VS' thread, of course it will be controversial. BUT ...... in a forum dedicated to 1 model? You don't think that people will get defencive when others bag their choice of car which this Forum is based on?

Many have bought their dream cars and stretched themselves doing it. Me included and that goes for most whether it be a Fiesta or an RSpec. People tend to buy to their upper limits and most will defend their choice ..... and unfortunately have to keep defending their Fords on a Ford site where some just keep pushing the WTF you buy a Falcon for" attitude. Of course people get narky and I do not blame them. I will always defend their right to defend.

By all means, discuss the merits of the VF. It is the new kid on the block with great cup holders ..... and lets compare it to a 6 year old model that is about to replaced but ... again ..... what makes the VF so wonderful to some will not be so wonderful to others. Amazingly there are many on the FORD FORUMS that love their cars, happy with them, will never have the love of a Commodore and will defend derogatory remarks made about them.

Want to feel good about the VF? LS1.cpm is a wonderful place I have heard where they will give everyone who visits 64 reasons why Ford is old and crappy and that the VF is just so wonderfully wonderful

Really ....... is it so bad that people on a Ford site will defend and enjoy their Fords?

By all means, evaluate it. Compare it. But not everyone needs to agree and there will be bias because it is a Ford site. Some need to read the heading when they sign in.

[rancidpunx]

Heres something on the tech side of things from my mate with the GTS. We went off to play cricket last night and took the VF, he said that the blind spot mirrors are a bit hit and miss and really not to great at actually picking up something in the blind spot and the fact you still have to do a shoulder check makes the feature pointless to have unless your an idiot who only checks his mirror to change direction. The forward collision alert activates randomly when cars are coming in the opposite direction in the other lane. The thing beeps and lowers the volume which is annoying. However I still love the phone feature that slows the aircon fan whilst your on the phone. Thats clever and useful.

[GTP534]

Hi Rodge,

I spend a fair bit of time over on SVT Performance; this is an American Forum with plenty of news on the new Mustang.

I'm starting my research early as a Mustang will most likely be my next Ford purchase!

Here's a link to just one feature on the new Mustang. It should be right for a big Kiwi front rower like yourself and the seats, I'm pretty sure, will be heated. Seats also appear to be well bolstered.

Switchgear, for the lights, wipers and indicators, looks to be a straight lift from Focus. This is not a bad thing as I find these controls easy to use and have a "good" feel.

There's also a thread over there with a spy shot of what is thought to be a 350, check out the rear rubber on that!

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...0-mustang.html

Would love to see you stay in the Ford camp. I'll admit I did have a wobbly moment when I considered withdrawing my deposit on the R-Spec and going for an SRT-8 but after 18 months of owning the R-Spec the best feature of it is the supercharged engine (plus the ZF for me), I absolutely love starting the beast up and driving it; it doesn't even have sat-nav and I've never listened to the radio let alone an I-Pod! The Mustang will fulfil the role of a cruiser for me.

Cheers,

Jim

[Rob 351]

Rodge can I ask a favour & that is post up a pic of your beautiful Edge coloured 335 GTP. For those who haven't seen a pic, it is a stunner.
My 2 cents worth & from a fellow GTP owner, I don't get it & for me I would consider it a massive step backwards Rodge!
Rodge, on the weekend go & give her a good clean inside & out, grab a deck chair, bottle of enzeds finest & spend an hour looking at what your thinking of trading for an SS Commodore. If you then think you can still part with it, of to the Holden dealer for you on monday & no offence, but probably the shrink on tuesday.
If you can though mate, post up a pic of your GTP for those who haven't seen it.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

he said that the blind spot mirrors are a bit hit and miss and really not to great at actually picking up something in the blind spot

I haven't found that to be the case. They've worked pretty much as expected, every time.

The forward collision alert activates randomly when cars are coming in the opposite direction in the other lane.

I've only seen that happen when going around a curve. Straight ahead, no issues. Its also saved me a couple of times when the guy ahead decided to jump on the brakes for no reason. Though it is a little conservative, going bonkers if you're accelerating while the car ahead is braking.

What I have found annoying is the parking sensors. Front sensors go off coming out of driveways, you just end up turning them off. And apparently the reverse sensors wont cope with a towbar being left in, friend with a Maloo has to take his out when its not in use. A huge oversight.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

Heres something on the tech side of things from my mate with the GTS. We went off to play cricket last night and took the VF, he said that the blind spot mirrors are a bit hit and miss and really not to great at actually picking up something in the blind spot and the fact you still have to do a shoulder check makes the feature pointless to have unless your an idiot who only checks his mirror to change direction. The forward collision alert activates randomly when cars are coming in the opposite direction in the other lane. The thing beeps and lowers the volume which is annoying. However I still love the phone feature that slows the aircon fan whilst your on the phone. Thats clever and useful.

I said the same thing in another thread about 2 WN Caprices I've had. The blind spot function is a hit and a miss as is the forward collision warning.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

On your basis, what sells more means better ..... in order of the BEST cars out there:

1.Mazda 3 – 4561
2.Toyota Corolla – 2941
3.Toyota HiLux – 2544
4.Hyundai i30 – 2486
5.Holden Commodore – 2364
6.Ford Focus – 2074
7.Mazda CX-5 – 1853
8.Ford Ranger – 1617
9.Volkswagen Golf – 1557
10.Hyundai ix35 – 1496

....... so we scrap all 'vs' threads, close up shop and all buy Mazda 3's. Case closed, end of story? Afraid so. But WAIT! No AMG? No M series? No Jags? No Audi's? Thought they would be better than a Hyundai i30 ..... but I must be wrong.

Rodge was comparing two cars from the same segment- which is a valid comparison. Comparing all cars across all segments is ridiculous.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by mcnews

LOL, you guys do know that about 1 per cent of the population or less is anywhere near the outback :-) Everyone else is pretty much in coastal based cities are large regional centres.

Still more open roads here.. Power is hardly used in populated areas..It mainly flat here..

[BHDOGS]

man joins ford forums gets upset that people say holdens smelly fords not