What would you consider is high performance?

[merlin]

At least 250+KW a tonne...

[XA-Coupe]

Originally Posted by jabba

Thats not fast for a hi performance car. The GTR 32 Skyline did the 1/4 in 12.9. And that was 15 years ago.

The R32 is faster over a 1/4 than a R34.. that makes the R34 less of a performance vehicle then
Anyway, the GTR Skylines are pretty much purpose built coupes not a tarted up version of the big selling family car as the local offerings are. People tend to forget that FPV and HSV don't have the budget to do what the japanese do.
I didn't vote in the poll as it is ridiculous. A performance car is whatever does it for you. Some people consider a Barina SRi a performance car... I don't.
Even though according to the majority my xr8 isn't a performance car it won't be beaten by 99% of whatever pulls up along side me. It will do well over the posted speed limits, it over takes with ease and is comfortable... so to ME, it IS a performance car.... but a Barina SRi isn't :

[jabba]

Originally Posted by XA Coupe

The R32 is faster over a 1/4 than a R34.. that makes the R34 less of a performance vehicle then

I would say no it is not any less a HI PO car then the R32, Due to the fact that the performance off the R34 around Nurburgring was much faster then the R32-33. 1/4 time are only a small part of the story when measuring a cars level of performance. To me I perfer lap times, that way all 3 dimension of driving are measured.

Originally Posted by XA Coupe

Anyway, the GTR Skylines are pretty much purpose built coupes not a tarted up version of the big selling family car as the local offerings are. People tend to forget that FPV and HSV don't have the budget to do what the japanese do.
I didn't vote in the poll as it is ridiculous. A performance car is whatever does it for you. Some people consider a Barina SRi a performance car... I don't.
Even though according to the majority my xr8 isn't a performance car it won't be beaten by 99% of whatever pulls up along side me. It will do well over the posted speed limits, it over takes with ease and is comfortable... so to ME, it IS a performance car.... but a Barina SRi isn't :

Yes the GTR's are purpose built, but Nissan realized the the family man wan't a 4 door also. So there are 4 door GTR's out there as well, they are only avialbe in the 32-33 models. Im not sure about the 34.

Look I never said that the XR8 and the FPV were not performance car's. What I said was, they are performance car's (the FPV more so). But I do not believe they are HI Performance cars. That title is reserved for the likes of Lambo's, Porche, Ferrari and other such Pedigree's of car's.

Also the title of this thread is "What would consider is a high performance car"
and I believe that the the New ford GT40 and the Frod GTR belong on the HIPO list.....

Matt

[XA-Coupe]

I have seen 4 Door AWD GTST but never a 4 Door GT-R..
I am not particularly sticking up for Ford / FPV because they could do better if the marketing weenies loosened the leash on the engineers a little and stopped softening them up...maybe they could pick up some mid corner speed if that happened ??
I think that Euro exotics are just that, exotics, they are a level above hi po cars.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by XA Coupe

The R32 is faster over a 1/4 than a R34.. that makes the R34 less of a performance vehicle then
Anyway, the GTR Skylines are pretty much purpose built coupes not a tarted up version of the big selling family car as the local offerings are. People tend to forget that FPV and HSV don't have the budget to do what the japanese do.

Actually, the Skyline GT-R is much like the HSV GTS and FPV GT. It's a performance car built off a family car base. The base Skylines are family cars. The R32 Skyline GXi (base model) came out with a ****y SOHC n/a 4cyl, in sedan form. Then there's the n/a coupes. The GTSt is like XR8/SS. Very common misconception that they're a purpose built sports car, they're not. Never were. The new one will be a different story, but even that GT-R will be able to trace its origins back to the V35 Skyline, which is, an upmarket family car.

Same token for a wide range of performance cars that tear ours to shreds.. BMW M5, Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG, Mercedes-Benz C55 AMG, BMW M3, Audi S4, Audi RS4, Audi S6, Audi RS6 etc etc... they're all built off a family car type base, but with alot more engineering expertise and development dollars then our local offerings.

[XA-Coupe]

Well done steffo, you got me... The GTR is different enough in the mechanicals and body parts to the lesser models that I think of it as purpose built.
All that book learning finally paid off.

[jabba]

Hey Steffo, Can you find a picture of a 4 door GTR whether it's R32 or R33

[turboute]

I voted for 130KW/tonne before I realised that it was at the flywheel. I wish I could change to 150 now...

[jabba]

Originally Posted by XA Coupe

I have seen 4 Door AWD GTST but never a 4 Door GT-R..

Here you go mate, this is what they look like. Click here
Then click on GTR's.... Then click on GTR 4 door..

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by jabba

Hey Steffo, Can you find a picture of a 4 door GTR whether it's R32 or R33

R33 GT-R sedan.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by XA Coupe

Well done steffo, you got me... The GTR is different enough in the mechanicals and body parts to the lesser models that I think of it as purpose built.
All that book learning finally paid off.

I wouldn't say the differences are enough to make it purpose built. If you look at the RB26DETT compared to RB20DET (R32), and RB25DET (R33 & R34), its the same engine with more stroke, slightly better internals, and two turbochargers instead of one. Pretty much like the difference between the Callaway C4B in the GTS300 and the normal LS1.

Then there's the ATESSA-ETS AWD system that only GT-R got. The body panels are the same material (GT-R's were, in fact, always a fair bit heavier then the RWD counterparts) and the interior diffierences aren't that major (seats, speedo, a bit of extra gauges etc). Pretty much the same as the differences from regular Commo to HSV, or regular Falc to FPV.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by jabba

Thats not fast for a hi performance car. The GTR 32 Skyline did the 1/4 in 12.9. And that was 15 years ago.

Rememeber the R32 GTR was 4WD and would've been lighter then the XR8 and GT.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by VY18s

Rememeber the R32 GTR was 4WD and would've been lighter then the XR8 and GT.

Yep, and AWD tends to be worse for 1/4 mile use. Its simple really, the 206kW power advertised for the GT-R has always been a total lie. The R32 GT-R weighed 1480kg, and apparantley had 206kW. Imputing that into Virtual Engine Calculator 2005 (what I use for calculating ET's), gives 13.94 @ 96.6 mph. The power/weight ratio makes the times it ran seem impossible... and that's without including the weight of the driver etc etc. Now.. say you put 260kW in, it spits out 12.9 @ 104.4 mph. The GT-R produced power in the 240 - 260kW range, but was officially claimed to make 206kW.

Whereas the top spec Falcon of the day (EB GT) was claimed at 200kW, and really made in the 185 - 195 range. Plus it was 171kg heavier to boot, and had cruisey gearing (3.27:1 final drive).

PS.. I know these things aren't 100% accurate, but they're a good tool for rough calculation, such was what we're doing here.

[Gammaboy]

The "Autech" 4 door "GTR" is just a 4 door GTST with all the GTR v-spec driveline and computers etc put into it by the aftermarket company Autech...
R34 GTR shells are *significantly* different structurally to a GTS-T shell, they have a double skinned rear bulkhead among other things to improve the stiffness of the shell.
Plenty of STOCK R33 and R34 skyline GT-Rs have been dyno'd at over 200 kw at the wheels. go figure
I did some more quick numbers... I have a 300kw/tonne (pilot included, 500kw/tonne without!) vehicle in my shed. It was built in 1985 and has 130 wide rear rubber :P Now thats performance :P:P

[XplosiveR6]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Yep, and AWD tends to be worse for 1/4 mile use. Its simple really, the 206kW power advertised for the GT-R has always been a total lie. The R32 GT-R weighed 1480kg, and apparantley had 206kW. Imputing that into Virtual Engine Calculator 2005 (what I use for calculating ET's), gives 13.94 @ 96.6 mph. The power/weight ratio makes the times it ran seem impossible... and that's without including the weight of the driver etc etc. Now.. say you put 260kW in, it spits out 12.9 @ 104.4 mph. The GT-R produced power in the 240 - 260kW range, but was officially claimed to make 206kW.

Whereas the top spec Falcon of the day (EB GT) was claimed at 200kW, and really made in the 185 - 195 range. Plus it was 171kg heavier to boot, and had cruisey gearing (3.27:1 final drive).

PS.. I know these things aren't 100% accurate, but they're a good tool for rough calculation, such was what we're doing here.

actually the GTR awd system (if you would call it that) is fantastic for quater mile drags, as the GTR is allways set to RWD, unless it breaks traction (ie, when stalling up at start of race) so power loss is at a minimum. I'd rather a little power loss at the start, then to be spinning the wheels half way down the track.

[Ghiadude]

my opinion of a high performance car is at least 250kw/350bhp per tonne.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by tx3dude

my opinion of a high performance car is at least 250kw/350bhp per tonne.

So which one is it? 250kW = 335bhp and 350bhp = 261kW.

[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by Bangers

I consider high performance to be a perfect match between cornering, braking and acceleration. My workmates Ferrari 360 Spider definately fits this, I'd also considering a WRX to fit this. Same with an S2000, Lotus Elise, Monaro, Skyline (GTR..obviuosly), RZ TT Supra and Pulsar GTI-R's.

A stock GTI-R isn't much of a performance car. Boosted examples might be quickish in a straight line but when the thing bounces across two lanes when reaching 18ok's thats just rubbish. My xr8 on the same bit of strip is nice and smooth and begs for more, this thing actually scared the sh*t out of me.

[T_Terror]

Originally Posted by XRQTOR

A stock GTI-R isn't much of a performance car. Boosted examples might be quickish in a straight line but when the thing bounces across two lanes when reaching 18ok's thats just rubbish. My xr8 on the same bit of strip is nice and smooth and begs for more, this thing actually scared the sh*t out of me.

Are you for real? THose things fly stock. Obviously the guy you raced had some problems there arent many cars that skitter across lanes straight out of the factory (some kia's are excepted).
Much love here for Fords but a small car with powerful engine and 4wd is gonna munch a falc pretty much everywhere.

[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by T_Terror

Are you for real? THose things fly stock. Obviously the guy you raced had some problems there arent many cars that skitter across lanes straight out of the factory (some kia's are excepted).
Much love here for Fords but a small car with powerful engine and 4wd is gonna munch a falc pretty much everywhere.

My mate owns 1, with a full zorst cai and boosted to 1olb's i could beat it with a good launch and rape it from a roll. It's now running 14lb's and it puts a length nearly two on me from a standing start.

The thing skitter's across the road at high speed, im talking 180-190k's here not just sunday driving stuff. Might explain why they are top speed limited from the factory. There are quite a few out my way and they are all the same, jeez they get out of the hole quick but thats about it...............

[Steffo]

My uncle raced a GTi-R with 165kW @ all four wheels (they're 172kW flywheel stock) in his VY SS Series 1 235kW Ute (has an exhaust, 18" wheels and its lowered), with me in the thing too. The GTi-R isn't that fast... it out-launched the hell out of the ute, stayed ahead for a while, by about 110km/h, the ute's on the GTi-R's tail, by 140km/h, the GTi-R is behind the SS.. and stays that way. If the 235kW SS Ute with two people in it munches a 165awkW GTi-R... I wonder how it'd fair against a HSV Clubsport or FPV GT with one person in the car...

[MITCHAY]

I believe that mostly the Nissan cars are intended to be used on a track not in a straight line. Although there is plenty of Skyline GT-Rs that hammer the 1/4 mile.

[Gambit]

Originally Posted by xr8ute

Hmmm...a high power to weight ratio certainly = FUN, but would only be one of the criterea necessary for what I consider High Performance.

A Shelby Cobra Daytona coupe would be about there IMO...whats the power to weight of that?

I know someone who has a street registered replica of these. I think he said its weight is 1 ton. It has an au block, 347 internals, trickflow alloy heads, 8 t/b manifold (same as on bob romanos fairmont) with a 5sp tremec using an autronic computer for tuning. I haven't seen it since it has been rego'd but it was still a beast when I last saw it.

[Stav]

I consider high performance to be a car that doesnt break down.This is very high performance.

[xr8ute]

Originally Posted by Gambit

I know someone who has a street registered replica of these. I think he said its weight is 1 ton. It has an au block, 347 internals, trickflow alloy heads, 8 t/b manifold (same as on bob romanos fairmont) with a 5sp tremec using an autronic computer for tuning. I haven't seen it since it has been rego'd but it was still a beast when I last saw it.

Man, that sounds sweeeet....i've got wood :

[mcflux]

ok, so who else voted 80kw/ton :P

[gozza]

anything faster than mine lol

it only makes sence to think of a performance car is one that is quick off the mark,makes good times down the strip, but also corners and stops well, is one thing to go fast in a straight line, but to carry good speed around corners is another. street light dragging is crap and proves nothing.

[gozza]

proves whos got a faster car in a straight line lol

[EXECJIM]

I voted 230 kw per ton :

Why would i vote less when that is perfect for the street :sm_headba

Jim :