Turbo Driver Looses control

[sexr6tasy]

As 4Vman said i dont have the answers to fix it its almost impossible to separate the good from bad but there has to be a better way all i ask is rather then assuming and judging take them all on a case by case basis as theres nothing worse then not having a second chance.

Thank you and good night . Vote for me for president.

In reply to the above post everybody's been pushing for driver training but speed cameras are cheaper. On a side note im not a p-plater im a fully licensed driver.

[MeLLy]

Originally Posted by philstoj

So Mr smarty pants, what side of the fence do you sit on?

Pathetic? the whole system is pathetic so what do we do?

Maybe there should be a thread which asks for age group, years driving, driving offences, accidents etc and see which age group is the worst, and i wonder who the winners will be...

Well Mr Funny Pants...
I'm 20
I'm a p plater
Been driving for nearly 4 years
and i have never caused an accident or crashed into anyone...the only accident i have had was when A FULLY LICENSED DRIVER was doing a burnout on hindly st xmas eve 06 in his mums little charade & didnt look when he took off and plowed into the back of my car....
So...QUICK RUN FOR THE HILLS a p plater was involved in an accident and it wasnt their fault!

[drracing108]

i see ALOT of 16-25yr olds driving like absolute spastics, females included, im 18 (although off my p's, NT), i have been racing karts for 8 yrs, and now race tarmac rallies, i dont find the need to drive like these ****heads on the streets, but what is there to do? i think these laws are a good thing, but can be unfair to others

[merlin]

Originally Posted by colossus

Bury your heads in the sand all you want - the fact is that young drivers are massivley overrepresented in the road toll. In 2004 young people (17-24) accounted for only 13% of all licence holders, but 28% of the road toll. Cold hard numbers don't lie.

I'm not saying what the cause is, just that there is a problem - Many of you are mostly crap drivers, get some experience then reply.

Exactly - I laugh at these young blokes with smashed up cars arguing on here. 10 years on the road and not one accident for me - its not hard.

[Rollin]

Originally Posted by flappist

Last weekend I watched a group of "young men in their 20s" attempting to maintain control a motor vehicle on a wet concrete surface.

I now understand why these new laws are being implemented.........

I may be wrong, and feel free to correct me if so, but didn't one of those "young men in their 20s" happen to beat all comers in the timed course? In his near stock EF with SS diff and sunvisor mounted proudly to the roof?

"All comers" including at least one F6 Typhoon, some XR6Ts and various other vehicles driven by much older and presumably more experienced drivers?

RE: News article and mention of "Ford Turbo". They use turbo to suggest "hoon" if it was a BA Fairmont with the 3 valver it would have been "Ford V8" and if it was an N/A XR6 they would have written "High powered 6 cylinder". You can't win - headlines are designed to attract attention and sell copies, and stuff the after effects.

[philstoj]

Originally Posted by sexr6tasy

All of you'se fail to see my point and its sad the victims here are not idiot head hoons drivers who act like stupid faces the victims are the decent kids who follow the road rules , try to do up there car , have abit of fun and try to live there life. And all they get in return is labels , name calling, draconian laws and i for one feel sorry for them i will never support this legislation and ill be showing it at the ballet box. Thats all ive got to say you'se may all resume your p plater bashing now im done with this thread.

Got to love the flow on effect... the minority stuffs it up for their age group, which in turn stuffs it up for everyone else!! Whats new?

Oh how the media love high performance cars....

[philstoj]

Originally Posted by MeLLy

Well Mr Funny Pants...
I'm 20
I'm a p plater
and i have never caused an accident or crashed into anyone...the only accident i have had was when A FULLY LICENSED DRIVER was doing a burnout on hindly st xmas eve 06 in his mums little charade & didnt look when he took off and plowed into the back of my car....
So...QUICK RUN FOR THE HILLS a p plater was involved in an accident and it wasnt their fault!

Well good for you,keep up the good work, and go and target the ones that are making you look bad.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Rollin

I may be wrong, and feel free to correct me if so, but didn't one of those "young men in their 20s" happen to beat all comers in the timed course? In his near stock EF with SS diff and sunvisor mounted proudly to the roof?

"All comers" including at least one F6 Typhoon, some XR6Ts and various other vehicles driven by much older and presumably more experienced drivers?

.

There's a MASSIVE difference between pure driving "skill" on a closed controlled circuit and responsible safe driving attitude and behavior on the road..

[AWD Chaser]

I got sick of worrying about the media's perception on my "whatever group im classified in" and all the BS on the road, and joined the Defence Force. Now I have ALOT bigger things to worry about... lol.

[Rollin]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

There's a MASSIVE difference between pure driving "skill" on a closed controlled circuit and responsible safe driving attitude and behavior on the road..

He specifically referred to the skidpan day held last weekend, where he watched "young men in their 20's" attempt to control a vehicle on a wet concrete surface.

One of those said young men happened to PWN the lot of them, therefore doing a much better job at "attempting" than anyone else there, in a much cheaper and much much less capable vehicle.

I've seen some footage too. I'll be at the next one, no worries

[56L]

Originally Posted by au3 chaser

I got sick of worrying about the media's perception on my "whatever group im classified in" and all the BS on the road, and joined the Defence Force. Now I have ALOT bigger things to worry about... lol.

After a stint in the army for 8 years i can tell you that i seen plenty of defence force car parks filled with smashed cars and nearly all owned by younger soldiers resulting from HOON accidents
Theres been more soldiers killed in road accidents in the last 20 years than in service

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Rollin

He specifically referred to the skidpan day held last weekend, where he watched "young men in their 20's" attempt to control a vehicle on a wet concrete surface.

One of those said young men happened to PWN the lot of them, therefore doing a much better job at "attempting" than anyone else there, in a much cheaper and much much less capable vehicle.

I've seen some footage too. I'll be at the next one, no worries

How on earth is this relevant???

[kyro_02]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

How on earth is this relevant???

I think he was meaning.. don't tar all the young people with the same brush. Not all young drivers are crap drivers...

same goes with the other side too... neither sides are perfect drivers !!!

(I think all that goes with out saying...)

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by kyro_02

I think he was meaning.. don't tar all the young people with the same brush. Not all young drivers are crap drivers...

same goes with the other side too... neither sides are perfect drivers !!!

(I think all that goes with out saying...)

That goes without question, ive never said it, and ive never seen anyone else ever say it.....
One isolated largely irrelevant example doesnt make the entire demographic perfect though either....

[56L]

Originally Posted by Rollin

He specifically referred to the skidpan day held last weekend, where he watched "young men in their 20's" attempt to control a vehicle on a wet concrete surface.

One of those said young men happened to PWN the lot of them, therefore doing a much better job at "attempting" than anyone else there, in a much cheaper and much much less capable vehicle.

I've seen some footage too. I'll be at the next one, no worries

Of course there are great young drivers,but it all changes when the belly is full of beer and getting egged on by there mates all those driving skills disappear,its the roads where accidents happen not a skid pan that has a great driving surface,one pot hole in the wrong spot on our crappy roads will unstick the best of us

[BOOSTDEF]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That goes without question, ive never said it, and ive never seen anyone else ever say it.....
One isolated largely irrelevant example doesnt make the entire demographic perfect though either....

Open your eyes and read post 17 of this thread.... He is simply contradicting what has been said.

Rightfully so I might add.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by BOOSTDEF

Open your eyes and read post 17 of this thread.... He is simply contradicting what has been said.

Rightfully so I might add.

Ive read it... Flappist made a perfectly valid observation, he's not saying ALL are at fault.... Clearly though weather you like it or not a significant disproportionate amount to other age brackets are an issue.

[schmidty]

I do probably 3500 to 4500km per week, and the group of road users i get the hardest time from certainly arent the P platers. They are the older ones, who should know better.

Many older drivers are becoming lax with their attitudes as a lot of the focus on blame and enforcement is targeting specific road user groups. P platers and those with high performance cars. Some drivers are under an illusion that because they arent dragging anyone from the lights, spinning their wheels, getting sideways or groosly exceeding the speed limit that they are safer drivers. Just as many dangerous situations occurr on the roads through acts that seem on the surface to be far less serious and are less obvious. See a lot more of what's going on around you sitting up in a truck and some of the stuff that goes on in cars is scary. If i ever see anyone driving and listening to their mp3 player with headphones, expect to have the cord wrapped around your neck and pulled tight. I've seen a few near misses from morons doing this that i'd care to forget.

I dont care what anyone says, i have more headaches from women texting while driving and wandering all over their lane, or varying their speed between 70 and 100 on the highway because texting and driving is a juggling act they should not be attempting. The worst of all the phone junkies are the women because more often than not they're doing it with kids in the car, and so out of control and all over the road its not funny. Almost every time i see a car unexplainably wandering or miss a stop sign or cutting people off, its someone on the phone.

[colossus]

Originally Posted by schmidty

I do probably 3500 to 4500km per week,
.

Damn, thats a hell of a lot of driving!

[Rollin]

4Vman - Flappist did not make a perfectly valid observation, that was what I was trying to point out.

He said that he saw young drivers on the weekend doing a chit job of steering cars around a skidpan.

Considering one of said chit drivers happened to be better than everyone else in a measured timed event, in a far inferior vehicle, what does that say about the driving skills of the rest of the people there? For some reason the "People in glass houses" proverb springs to mind in that particular example.

I am in no way denying that young people smash cars up good and proper a lot more often than their older counterparts, just wanted to point out that the particular example Flappist chose to illustrate in his post was a poor one.

In my personal observation, young people do drive a lot more agressively than older ones, and take more risks (esp late at night when there isn't much traffic and the cops are elsewhere) but when it comes to driving in traffic or on the freeway etc, there isn't any difference.

90% of road users tailgate, a very large proportion absolutely SUCK at merging, a lot of them are horrendous at giving way, and a lot are just plain rude.

Unfortunately, I can't see any surefire way of curtailing this behavior - one can't help those who refuse to help themselves.

Some suggestions I could offer in an attempt to improve road safety:

1: At least two one hour theory classes required to be attended before the learner driver is allowed to take the driving test.

These sessions would include braking distances and what affects them, ie, going uphill, downhill, road conditions, tyre condition etc, the importance of correct tyre pressure for safety and tyre life, how to correctly estimate follow distances, the theory of vehicle dynamics (weight transfer under braking, acceleration and cornering) and how to use that information to drive smoothly and increase fuel consumtion etc. Also how to merge correctly and the definition of "giving way".

2: Line markings on the road at certain distances apart, depending on speed limit, and an ad campaign explaining their use - to remine people to keep a safe distance apart, ie, the car in front of you should pass over a line marking at the same time that you pass over one, and the lines are set the correct distance apart for the given speed limit.

I can't see an easy/cheap way to stop people giving their cars heaps on the road though - you can't police all roads all the time, and the temptation to open the taps when it's late at night and there isn't anybody around is hard to ignore.

I'd love to see more race tracks (even very small ones, equivalent to a large gokart track) that people could go and give their cars hell. Small track = lower speed so less danger, but you can still blaze the tyres as much as you like, and get it all out of your system.

Off the top of my head, anyway...

[KBBossedXR]

It amazes me how evryone bags the younger generation for there driving when there is a crash involving young drivers. There is good and bad in all age groups, how often do you get stuck behind the older age drivers that sit well under the speed limits making the traffic bank up then other drivers get frustrated and this can lead to problems.
Classic scenario here in SA on the long weekends the amount of people that leave Adelaide to go down the Yourke Peninsula is amazing, the traffic banks up in Pt Wakefield for several Kms and you get these drivers that sit on 70/80kmhr in a 110kmhr zone and this causes some absolutely crazy overtakings by all ages and a lot of people get killed on that road, they even have a big digital sign telling you how many days since the last fatality. When the accident is caused during the overtaking by the cars that have been stuck behind this car doing 70kmhr in a 110kmhr zone for all this time, to me its the slow cars fault and if you cant drive at the speed limit or close to it get of the road its as simple as that.
Adelaide to Victor Harbour,Yankalila,Myponga road is said to be the worst in the state for fatalities, it is a 100kmhr speed limit, i have to drive that road quite often as my sister lives down there. This is the worst road for people not being able to drive to the speed limit, to me this is just as bad as speeding because of the frustration it causes to the traffic behind, doing 70kmhr in 100kmhr zone 80kmhr corner ahead so they slow down, these roads dont have bugger all overtaking areas so once your behind thats it your there until the next town. And they think they have the right to do this and your in the wrong and traviling to fast if your behind.
Next time you see a accident have a look at the driver of the closest car to the crash or the first car that is driving away totaly unaware that there has even been a crash and i bet you its "OLD".
There is no excuse for stupidity though.

[Schlimmeh]

What's everyone so upset about - It'll Buff out

[XR8Master]

Younger people may have a higher crash rate but they don't say anything about who is actually on the road more...I myself drive an average of about 800-1000km per week and I would place money on the assumption that younger people are in there cars more then anyone else. 77 year old Grandma might drive once every second month to collect her groceries from Aldi while only having 6 near misses and big fat mum from down the street only drives 10 minutes a day to drop the kids off to school and get some maccas for lunch before jerry starts while at the same time texting her offside BF in her 60k prado. its ok she can park in the centre of two car parks, its not like she isn't driving a 4wd.

I have had one serious car crash and almost half a dozen near misses, but all of these have been over the space of well over 100 000km, 95% of the time It was the other persons fault

How can motor vehicle statistics mean anything when its highly probable that two people from two different age brackets don't do the same amout of driving ?

[colossus]

Originally Posted by XR8Master

Younger people may have a higher crash rate but they don't say anything about who is actually on the road more...I myself drive an average of about 800-1000km per week and I would place money on the assumption that younger people are in there cars more then anyone else. 77 year old Grandma might drive once every second month to collect her groceries from Aldi while only having 6 near misses and big fat mum from down the street only drives 10 minutes a day to drop the kids off to school and get some maccas for lunch before jerry starts while at the same time texting her offside BF in her 60k prado. its ok she can park in the centre of two car parks, its not like she isn't driving a 4wd.

I have had one serious car crash and almost half a dozen near misses, but all of these have been over the space of well over 100 000km, 95% of the time It was the other persons fault

How can motor vehicle statistics mean anything when its highly probable that two people from two different age brackets don't do the same amout of driving ?

Your suggesting young P platers who drive mostly at night doing laps, to school, to uni ect. do more driving than middle age professionals, truck drivers, couriers, cabbies, bussies ect. Does not compute.

[Jesk]

Originally Posted by sfr rob

Probably caused the accident, traction control has made me lose control of my car once before, I thought it was off, got sideways and the bloody thing took over and I couldn't recover due to all power to the rears being cut. thats why its the first button i push in my car after starting it.
I would love to see the video footage from the cameras.

i work for coles express and by the ancient pumps that got collected that site really needs an overhaul. So my guess would be that there is minimal cameras if any at that site. we are expected to use our eyes not cameras. how little cameras are at coles express sites is pathetic, I know of many city sites that have none at all (not mentioning names for obvious reasons) then the other large preportion have a single exterior camera, only one site that I know of that has 3 or more external cameras. whereas I can think of many country sites of different companies that have more then 5 external cameras. Sorry if I've gone on a tangent but security at coles express has a lot to be desired so I'd be willing to bet there is no worthwhile footage of the accident.

[Rollin]

Maybe that XR was the one used in the "pinkie finger" RTA ad, and they just didn't show what happened after the BA did the skid?

[Fev]

here in sydney alot of schools do driver education days. ive done it liek 3 times now, we have discussions about overtaking precautions, stop signs etc etc.. all the boring usual stuff.. we get a talk to from some brain damaged people(one guy that lost it at 160 in a commo(figures, the dumbass bogan-) and we get a braking test.. first we watch a Honda MRV brake from 40-0.. then 60-0.. then 80-0 from a specified point and each stopping distance marked with a cone.. then we get in the car when they do it(albeit the car is a 4wd and fully loaded with 5 people)..

what we DO need is harder tests and compulsory advanced driver training..


but it seems to me that those 4 guys in the XR6T were actually just ****ed off with current fuel prices and decided to give Shell one on the chin :P