Park in gear or neutral

[FPV GT40]

Originally Posted by ozmale42

I always stick her in 1st (manual) whether or not its on the flat....Just a habit and good policy in case forget to apply the hand brake, not that the hand brake on the BA's are any good

Not sure what is wrong with your BA hand brake, but they are about the best hand brakes Ford ever designed...probably just needs adjusting.

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by FPV GT40

Not sure what is wrong with your BA hand brake, but they are about the best hand brakes Ford ever designed...probably just needs adjusting.

That was tongue n cheek...the handbrake in the GT I've had no problems with so far ....However my previous BA (Mk1) was back to Ford no less than 4 times to get sorted....handbrake problems on BA's are more common than driveline clunk problems in BOSS manuals

[FPV GT40]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

On my drivers course for paramedic, we were failed if we parked an automatic by going straight to park. The correct process is foot on the brake, apply handbrake, foot off brake and allow vehicle weight to be supported by the handbrake then place it in park. The park lock on the transmission is designed to take the weight of the car rolling against the drag of a park brake, it is not designed to hold the weight of the vehicle day after day. Also there have been a few instances of ambulances that have been parked on hills incorrectly and when re started, can not be shifted out of park, embarrassing (not to mention potentially deadly) when you can not respond to an emergency. So if you think parking with the weight of the car on your trasmission will not hurt it, keep going, I bet you don't push the button in on the handbrake lever when you pull it on (hearing those teeth that lock the handbrake getting worn down).
I know when it comes to the correct operation of a vehicle and was it better for vehicle longevity I will believe the Police driving instructors that taught me to drive 4t worth of Ambulance at high speed and in all conditions with negligable risk to myself, my patient, my partner or the public, this includes parking the 4t monster.

Notice how the weight is taken on the hand brake, in my post as the foot brake supports the vehicle, all the time till the end. Also an ambo might be different to a car (they are heavy). Does not really matter if you want to apply hand brake first then shift into park....same end result really, car is in park with hand brake applied, as long as you follow a system and use that system all the time saves you having to think and make decisions about something where there is no need...

[bodes-sh]

Originally Posted by Shounak

I know the slight clunks it makes, but I'm saying it would have a negligible, if any effect on the car. But people are concerned about the effect parking a car in auto would have on the transmission and mounts.

But then, if you'd read the previous posts, you'd have already know that too.






It's just making the sound it makes. Who cares? That's what they were designed to do.

Although in the times I drive an auto, I've generally got my foot on the brake when I move the T-bar, so it's not really a massive earth shattering clunk. Just a slight noise that let's me know I'm in gear.

I'd love to take two brand new Taxi's, one parks in Auto when he stops, the other in neutral and see the effects.

I don't think this zero to negligible effect should dictate safety precautions. People seem to think that parking a car in neutral gets rid of potential damage to tranny and mounts, without taking the potential cost of rolling into account.

That's what I'm amazed about.

hmmm, I don't recall saying anything about parking in neutral at all.... all I was getting at was that regardless whether it's auto or manual, it's better to put park brake on and in gear or park... also, on that note, I guess you haven't parked an auto on a decent incline to see how bad the clunk the transmission really makes when it's resting in park...

[3vXT]

Originally Posted by FPV GT40

Not sure what is wrong with your BA hand brake, but they are about the best hand brakes Ford ever designed...probably just needs adjusting every few days.

Fixed that for you

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by ken2903

Fixed that for you

every few days......right on brother

[Dazza XLT]

I don't trust the handbrake in the BF so I leave it in gear.
The BA has a well-adjusted handbrake so it sits in neutral.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by FPV GT40

Notice how the weight is taken on the hand brake, in my post as the foot brake supports the vehicle, all the time till the end. Also an ambo might be different to a car (they are heavy). Does not really matter if you want to apply hand brake first then shift into park....same end result really, car is in park with hand brake applied, as long as you follow a system and use that system all the time saves you having to think and make decisions about something where there is no need...

They told us that they had the same issue in falcon and commodore police units. The difference between putting it straight to park, park brake on then foot off brake is the vehicle is often taken up on the trans. By going to neutral, park brake, foot off brake and the into park, the vehicle weight is on the park brake, where it should be.

I might add that if the trans does become locked in park it requires lifting the rear wheels off the ground to get the weight off the trans, nasty thing to do on a steep hill.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by FPV GT40

Why bother making a decision like 'its flat I leave it in neutral'??? What benefit do you get except for increasing your chances of making a mistake?

On a flat level surface, with a working handbrake on and the manual in neutral, what scenario could possibly be a mistake? You could almost leave it with the handbrake off. It takes energy to get that mass moving.

[Zed7fiddy]

Handbrake and in nuetral all the way, but yeah, i drive a lancer, it has a good handbarake haha

But on the bike its in gear for sure, as its lighter and more likely to roll. and for the simple lack of a handbrake

[geckoGT]

Any way for me, in our drive (which is dead flat) I park in neutral so I can lean in, start the car and allow it to warm up a bit while I load stuff in the car. Out and about I leave it in gear as I do not completely trust the ford park brake. If it rolls in my driveway, downhill side is my garage door and I doubt it will get enough speed to roll through that.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by FPV GT40

There should be absolutely no difference as to whether or not there are kids around, the ground is flat or hilly, it is a full moon etc etc, why leave yourself open to the possibiliy of things going wrong.

Here is the correct way of parking a manual car (regardless of who is around, where it is parked, or what zodiac sign you are under)
-Stop the vehicle using the foot brake
-Hold the vehicle stationary with the foot brake and the clutch depressed
-Firmly apply the hand brake
-Switch the engine off and remove the key
-Shift the gear leaver into first if facing up hill and reverse if facing down hill
-Release the clutch
-Exit vehicle. and you are done!!!! As recommended by the manufacturer of your vehicle everything else is BS and excuses and bad driving.

Automatic
-Stop vehicle using foot brake
-Put shift leaver into Park
-Apply hand brake firmly
-Release foot brake
-exit vehicle.

Why bother making a decision like 'its flat I leave it in neutral'??? What benefit do you get except for increasing your chances of making a mistake?

Spot on.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by FPV GT40

Automatic
-Stop vehicle using foot brake
-Put shift leaver into Park
-Apply hand brake firmly
-Release foot brake
-exit vehicle.

Incorrect!

Automatic
-Stop vehicle using foot brake
-Put shift leaver into neutral
-Apply hand brake firmly
-Release foot brake
-Place trans in park
-exit vehicle.


Correct, unless police department driving assessors know nothing.

[FPV GT40]

Originally Posted by Torxteer

On a flat level surface, with a working handbrake on and the manual in neutral, what scenario could possibly be a mistake? You could almost leave it with the handbrake off. It takes energy to get that mass moving.

The chance of making a mistake arise when you do the same thing on a slight hill or even a big hill as you have to think and make a decision rather than just do what you do all the time without having to decide if the ground is level, or sloping or whatever.

This is how mistakes are made, every high risk job has procedure that is followed all the time making it habit, rather than a decision making process.

I know when I get out of the car the hand brake is on and the car is in gear, every single time no matter where it is parked. So if someone asks me did you ally the hand brake I can say YES with confidence and without thinking about it, its like putting on your seat belt it is just habit and happens every time I get in the car.

[Silver Ghia]

Yeah, most people have their mind in neutral when they park and get out.

I go with gecko.

Also:

Shift the gear leaver into first if facing up hill and reverse if facing down hill

Whats to stop the engine turning backwards? You need to use the ratio thats most effective with the engine compression.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Yeah, most people have their mind in neutral when they park and get out.

I go with gecko.

Also: Whats to stop the engine turning backwards?

compression, reverse or 1st makes no difference, they are both the same ratio and therefore will hold the car with compression.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

compression, reverse or 1st makes no difference, they are both the same ratio and therefore will hold the car with compression.

BA brochure:
Manuals First ratio 3.35:1, Reverse ratio 3.15:1
Should use the ratio which provides maximum effectiveness.

[FTe342]

Anybody think to refer to their owners manual to see what the manufacturer of the vehicle has to say? After all, they should have a fair idea, wouldn't you say?

From my T series manual

Driving with a manual transmission
Parking
"Firmly apply the park brake, switch the engine off and remove the key. Shift the gear lever into 1st if facing uphill or reverse if facing downhill. Ensure the gear lever is fully engaged. Release the clutch after the engine stops."

Driving with an automatic transmission
Selector lever positions
P=Park
"This position should only be used when the vehicle is stationary. In this position the transmission is locked. Park is fully engaged when the selector lever cannot be moved without first depressing the lock release on the selector lever.
Do not use the park position in place of the park brake. Always ensure the park brake is firmly applied before leaving a parked vehicle."

(Notice that the manual doesn't say to only use the park brake AND the P position is for when the vehicle is stationary). My interpretation of this is that both Park and the handbrake should be used!

R = Reverse
"This position should be selected only when the vehicle is stationary and the engine idling."

N = Neutral
"This position should be selected when the starting the engine or when idling. No power is transmitted to the drive wheels."

(Notice the manual doesn't say to engage neutral to park the vehicle! If it did it would contradict what it says under the heading of Park)

[FTe342]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

I actually had a car roll across a car park and into my 3 week old el falcon many years ago.
The other driver was in the hand brake on - in neutral habit, and didnt notcie the hill or didnt think. habits are habits.
The incline didnt seem much, but by time it reached my car it did a lot of damage!

Now imagine if a little kid or something had of been standing there, not looking for a silent car?

Sometimes hills arent noticable and it might look flat at a quick glance (or do you check with a level?)
PARK IT IN GEAR IDIOTS!
Get in the habit of ALWAYS doing it!

Too LAZY? what else you too lazy to do, seat belts? indicate? check your mirrors? stop at stop signs etc? driving is not about being lazy. its about being as safe as possible. If u got a safetly item.. USE IT!

Save wear on your gears? as someone said yeh from 500,000 to 499,999 (gee maybe it will last a few more minutes) Why not put bricks under the wheels or park it pushed into walls, save your brakes? hook ahorse to teh front save yor engine..

Actually do me a favour and dont get in your car at all. Save your whole car.. and mine!

This is one of the best posts I have seen on this forum. Well done!

And to some of the moderators who posted in this thread and questioned its relevance whilst contributing nothing - one has to wonder about why you hold the position. You should be promoting/supporting safety which is exactly what this thread is about.

[Phyber]

Since we're talking about gears - I've been told that shifting into N in an auto as I roll to a stop is bad for the car. Is there truth to this, and if so, why?

I tend to like the smoother stop I get with it finishing at lights etc in N. Using the SSS in the Turbo kinda negates it in traffic now though but I'm still curious...

[Airmon]

Originally Posted by shaynet

This is one of the best posts I have seen on this forum. Well done!

And to some of the moderators who posted in this thread and questioned its relevance whilst contributing nothing - one has to wonder about why you hold the position. You should be promoting/supporting safety which is exactly what this thread is about.

I would think that the Moderators should be weeding out useless threads/posts/users and making sure the sites T&C are uphelp. If they should be supporting anything it should be Ford related threads for Enthusiasts, because that's what this site is. I'm sure there is a Safety forum somewhere where everyone gathers to discuss the latest in Hi-Vis, and the Mods there should probably promote it, but that isn't here.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by Airmon

I would think that the Moderators should be weeding out useless threads/posts/users and making sure the sites T&C are uphelp. If they should be supporting anything it should be Ford related threads for Enthusiasts, because that's what this site is. I'm sure there is a Safety forum somewhere where everyone gathers to discuss the latest in Hi-Vis, and the Mods there should probably promote it, but that isn't here.

Safety is a major issue in any driving, even more so for enthusiasts.
i'm sure cams or andra talk about safety all the time so why can't we discuss it? no-ones making you read it

i say anything that promotes a more positive image for car enthusiasts the better, that way we're not associated with 'hoons' the new scapegoat for societies problems.

[watejs06]

When parking a manual : First i let the handbrake hold the cars weight so that there is no weight on the gearbox then i select 3rd gear , this is more than enough to hold the car if the handbrake should fail. plus the natural position of the gear leaver is inline with 3rd and 4th so there is minimal were and tare on the nylon bushes.

an auto : same as about put in neutral let the handbrake take up the weight then select park .

just my 2 bubs worth

[Airmon]

Originally Posted by xy500

Safety is a major issue in any driving, even more so for enthusiasts.
i'm sure cams or andra talk about safety all the time so why can't we discuss it? no-ones making you read it

i say anything that promotes a more positive image for car enthusiasts the better, that way we're not associated with 'hoons' the new scapegoat for societies problems.

I'm not trying to insinuate that Safety is not important or that it has no place on a car forum. I'm simply saying that it is not the Moderators jobs to promote safety, that's not to say they cant, but they should not be judged are inadequate of their position because they don't.

[xy500]

fair enough

Originally Posted by nugget378

Thank christ I found this thread,I just wouldnt have been able to sleep tonight wondering who parks in gear or neutral..

What the is this? If you're going to constantly post like the above, then just leave.

[esp302v8]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Incorrect!

Automatic
-Stop vehicle using foot brake
-Put shift leaver into neutral
-Apply hand brake firmly
-Release foot brake
-Place trans in park
-exit vehicle.


Correct, unless police department driving assessors know nothing.

100 % agree with you geckoGT.


Andy.

[esp302v8]

All 3 of my cars are autos and I apply the handbrake after stopping , then take my foot off the brake pedal so the weight is taken up by the handbrake then select Park.
However my truck is a manual with air brakes and I have never left it in gear when parked.
The last manual car I had was my old XC Panel Van and I always put the handbrake on and left it in neutral when on a flat but in gear when parked on an incline.


Andy.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Cant get over some of the thoughts in this thread and the generalisations made regardless of the type of transmission and where the car is parked. The first post also did indicate this was applicable to manual drivers only, but it expanded and got confused by those including automatics.

There are about four different discussions going on here, how to correctly select and de-select Park on auto cars (Big Trev and Bunyip Chaser did well here), what to do whether its a manual or auto, or if its on a hill or on the flat ground, etc., The situations are different, and the driver should decide on the best option depending on the particular situation. Except there are many who wouldnt have a clue and are just in the habit doing what they normally do.

If its in a locked garage and no kids or pets are around at all, the door is shut, the floor is level, where is the car going to go? Also some have no mechanical sympathy with the load on the shift and transmission components when pulling hard on the lever to take it out of Park position.

And what happens to the gearbox when the car gets bumped solidly in a carpark by an errant 4WD which happens more often than the cable breaking?

When on a hill, I have it in First gear (manual) or Park (auto), the handbrake on securely, and the wheels pointed toward the kerb in case it does roll. Havent read that in this thread yet, perhaps drivers dont get taught that anymore (wheels pointing into the kerb). Depending on the car, reverse is normally a taller ratio, so first is better, as the engine can rotate both ways.

I didn't vote as I would answer both, depending on where its being parked.

And if the hanbrake isnt working properly or you dont trust it, go find another park which is more level, or get it fixed. BA's there is no excuse either, they do work when adjusted properly.

Reminds me a bit on the poll which discussed whether members pushed the button in when they pulled up on the handbrake lever, except that was clouded by mainly automatic drivers who have a different ideas to well experienced manual drivers.

Well isn't this a riveting discussion.....

Seriously though i think silver ghia has summed it up perfectly....it all depends on your situation and your judgement on what is the best way to go. This reminds me of a piece of advice people used to tell me about the 'early days' of autos....to put them in neutral at the lights to save engine strain and warped rotors due to clamped on brakes (holding against Drive).

Turns out you'd be better off letting it 'strain', not worth the cost to overhaul the auto not to mention the hassle and embarrasment if you forget to reselect D then boot in in neutral Cars are designed for MUCH GREATER ABUSE then people realise...yes it is 'better' to do some of these different methods suggested but you'd won't save sweet you know what in the long run and its nothing a bit of tlc won't fix. As long as you don't thrash the hell out of your car then you will generally be ok.

For the record i always park a manual in 1st (could do reverse too but don't bother), i usually stop in first if im lazy with the clutch in (or whatever gear....doesn't make a diff.). I always start with the car in neutral as well, don't know why just told too when i learnt to drive.

I am interested in this whole 'stop in neutral' for autos though....never really thought of it but it seems to make sense to handbrake then put in park....i don't bother, just into park, then handbrake, release foot brake then turn car off. I do get the 'clunk' when moving out of park sometimes, but i'm yet to be convinced that does any measurable damage (apart from sounding uncouth...). In the garage i just leave it in park (but no handbrake) on flat surface.....this way a kid or somethngi can't push it around if they try but you don't have a sticky handbrake (or so i was told.....)

Oh and i do turn the wheel toward the curb a bit on steep hills.....a school teacher i had once told me about it years ago....exta bit of protection.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Thank christ I found this thread,I just wouldnt have been able to sleep tonight wondering who parks in gear or neutral..

This are some examples that we have waiting in the pipeline, in case one day this thread gets shut down.



"Do you switch you radio off before you turn the car off, or after?"

"Who switches off the ignition before they take their seatbelt off?"

"How many times do you check to see if you locked your car before going to sleep?"

"How much RON is in your tank" /Edit: that's already taken.

"Do you look at the road when driving, or do you stare at the road when driving?"

"When parking at maccas, do you dodge the speed humps, or do you like to feel them?"

"How many threads can you start without looking like you're a post and thread whre?"