Should the Falcon I4T have a different name / look different?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by GT-Cobra

Its probably been mentioned already but, how many kW is this I4T engine going to produce?

Between 175 and 205kw, But it'll have max torque down low and be lighter. Until it is released people can only speculate how the engine will go....well except for the engineers that have been using it in the mule.

[Spitfire 6.2]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Between 175 and 205kw, But it'll have max torque down low and be lighter. Until it is released people can only speculate how the engine will go....well except for the engineers that have been using it in the mule.

It would probably be an attractive package for Mr & Mrs average and the kids. Good economy when cruising around town, with a bit of balls for the odd squirt on the highway.

If it sells, and keeps the I6 and V8 Falcon alive then it cant be too bad.
Probably get a ricer type following after a couple of years.

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

Falcon and Commodore buyers are parochial and will not stand for it, I tell you. They are seen as large, rear wheel drive cars for towing boats, and that's it. You can't tow a big boat with a 4 cylinder car.

Interesting comment.

How about we not call it a Falcon then, and parochial Falcon and Commodore buyers will ignore it. The 4Cyl 'Insert Name here' can be left to compete with the Camry on equal footing. No need for Mondeo either. Huge amounts of money saved on the same amount of money earned.

Come to think of it, they developed the BA for $500Mill - the same spent on the Territory, and while it's secret, I've seen that same number used to describe the FG spend.

But they've just announced that this engine program is going to cost $230.

What the heck are they going to do for that amount of money - it's huge! Is it all about the 'first RWD use of I4T', or the development of LPI on the I6? I remember the days when Cortina's came into Australia and they whacked the I6 into that for next to nix. Although it probably showed....

I'm harbouring suspicions that that amount of money really is for some sheetmetal changes....


Lukeyson

[mcnews]

I personally would prefer there not to be a four-cylinder Falcon. Dress it slightly different and call it something different.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Falcon has never even come close to having 4WD. Lukeyson

Go back about 35 years and there were four wheel drive Falcon utes.

[Luke Plaizier]

Time travelling double post....

[Luke Plaizier]

.....[retrospectively inserts BA into all Falcon references]....


Lukeyson

[FGII-XR6]

althougf I had reservations about the 4 at first this looks like being a 4 with more. it will have similar power to the late e series 6 so it will be no slouch.
the holden 4 banger on the other hand was just a 6 with 2 pots cut off , it was harsh and gutless needing special engine mounts to cope with the vibration and is something I'm sure holden wish they could forget ever happened, worst thing an engineer could put on their CV is worked on development of the holden starfire 4

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

I've already heard gloating comments from Holden fans regarding a 4-Pot Falcon. This probably comes from their attrocious 4-cyl experience in the VB Commodore. But if this new car is not called a Falcon, would that go some way to hosing off the voracity of their claim?


Lukeyson

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

What the heck are they going to do for that amount of money - it's huge! Is it all about the 'first RWD use of I4T', or the development of LPI on the I6? I remember the days when Cortina's came into Australia and they whacked the I6 into that for next to nix. Although it probably showed....

I'm harbouring suspicions that that amount of money really is for some sheetmetal changes....


Lukeyson

This is what I was getting at in that European Export thread...it's a hell of a lot of money simply for certifying 2 new engines. The plot thickens.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

This 4 cylinder Falc concept will fail.

Who recalls the raging success of the 'fleet oriented & economical" 3.2L I6 EA Falc? Or for that matter the previous 3.3L in the X series.

Now who remembers how long they lasted?

I see this in the same way. The 4 cylinder Falcon will be as well accepted as those were. Oldies who want a 4 cylinder car will still buy Camrys, not Falcons.

Falcon and Commodore buyers are parochial and will not stand for it, I tell you. They are seen as large, rear wheel drive cars for towing boats, and that's it. You can't tow a big boat with a 4 cylinder car.

The only way forward is to put in a high torque diesel and concentrate on improving build quality and reputation. Oh, and fire the current PR people and get some of the Holden ones in.

Yep. way back when Holden V8s and Falcon 6 cylinders were under 100kw there were no boats or caravans.
At the same time boats and caravans (which did not exist) were also never towed by Sigmas, Mazda 929s, Cortinas etc etc.

And living at a beachside resort that is a major amateur fishing area for over 40 years I have noticed that there are lately very few holdens or falcons towing anything other than tinnies. Big boofy 4WDs are a weapon of choice as it would probabaly be a bit embarrassing when your soopa doopa V8 just spins its wheels on the boat ramp and is dragged backwards into the water.

I personally think the I4T is a brilliant idea. It uses exactly the same fuel as the old models rather than LPG or diesel which are often hard to get, costs less in rego and insurance and has a warm and fuzzy "I am saving the planet" aura for those who care.

As opposed to Holden, Ford have not released any real lemons in a long time, well not since the Taurus/Couger days, they tend to do a lot more research before spending huge amounts of money.

[ehast13]

EcoBoost could be abbreviated to EB.

EB Falcon has a familiar ring to it!

At the first update they could change it to EconoDrive

ED Falcon

Or Xtra Economy (XE falcon)
XtraFast
XtraPerformance
XtraWillingGreatTowing Falcon (XWGT Falcon)

Seriously tho...

Maybe they should give it different (aero) rims like the new green Volvo or Civic Hybrid. Don't put that dodgy XT front on it. New smooth front bar.

Just give it a green EcoBoost Badge.

Falcon XT Ecoboost
Ford G-Ecoboost
Ford G-Ecoboost 500/ESP
Ford XR-E

[ehast13]

Ford had smaller capacity six cylinder engines from 1960 to 1991.

The 3.3 (or 200) went from XP to XF (over 20 years)

People bought them.

The 3.2 EA failed coz it was TB injection and was slower and used more fuel than a MPFI 3.9 EA.

Don't discount the ecoBoost falc yet. People buy Camry's...

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by flappist

Big boofy 4WDs are a weapon of choice as it would probabaly be a bit embarrassing when your soopa doopa V8 just spins its wheels on the boat ramp and is dragged backwards into the water.

The towing thing is tiring on me too. Thank goodness there's a Diesel going in the Tezza. Although every time we hear a story in the press, it's always 2 years away.

Sounds like another 'Duke Nukem Forever'. Nah that's a bit harsh - it'll be more like Guns n Roses Chinese Democracy - 9 years in the making. If only they were still dieselifying the I6 like Mr Polites was trying to do.


Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by ehast13

Just give it a green EcoBoost Badge.

Falcon XT Ecoboost
Ford G-Ecoboost
Ford G-Ecoboost 500/ESP
Ford XR-E

How about, in the same vein that we have Honda Accord and Honda Accord Euro, we have the Ford Mondeo and Ford Mondeo Pacifica ?


Lukeyson

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

So for customers now wanting to move into smaller, fuel efficient cars - I see a similar argument. It's undoubtedly going to be difficult to brand a Falcon as a mid-size car - but not impossible. Toyota have shown it can be done.

I just hope that Ford does their 4-Cyl falcon research well, and they don't fall into the same 'built for fleet sales' zero-market-research blunder that was the AU. I think it's a great opportunity to have a 'psuedo' new model on the product line to satisfy everything that the media thought they would get with the Focus, with only changes to front and rear plastics, lights (and perhaps some panels), built with worldwide engines, exportable into other countries, differentiated simply by it's RWD platform. Lukeyson

The new Falcon 'Compact' to bring back an old name!

[last fairlane]

Not sure it would work
people remember that crappy Holden motor the Starfire in the Commodore /Torana and dont forget the Camry predecessor the Corona
also the first Falcon the XK had a 144CI six what would that be in metric?
about 2 1/2 litres I think its 60 CI to the litre give or take I work it out on the Windsor 5 litre as a 302
5 litres goes into 302 inches 60 times
next what if it was named like the Cortinas were 6GL or 4GL or Ghia
and stop puting down the AU by saying it was just made as a fleet car
it is most comfortable car I have ever had
mines a Fairmont the Mrs has a BA Ghia and I know which one I prefer
to drive or be driven in
and didnt Holdens brag that they had at the time tha only car in the world
that could be had with either a four, six or V8 that the "Torana"
their PR was good way back then remember the witches hats and the RTS
and Ford countered with the same ad but with Alan Moffet and using people instead of the witches hats
thanks John

[ehast13]

Au comfortable? Hmmmmm, Interesting.

[russellw]

The 144CID was 2360cc near enough and in high compression form produced 67 kW@4200 and 187 Nm @ 2000 rpm - it wasn't a ball of fire but in a car that weighed a fair bit less than the ones we have now it was acceptable.

Might be interesting to see how much weight this engine saves over the I6 and do power to weight comparisons.

The Starfire 4 (which contained no fire and was never a star) experience in the Commodore was always destined to be a disaster - although they sold a few - being substantially down on power / torque or anything resembling performance while barely saving anything in weight.

Cheers
Russ

Cheers
Russ

[z80]

I think the 4 cylinder falcon will be short lived and plagued with problems.

Falcon fleet drivers will rev the crap out of it, create unreliability/warranty issues and give it a bad name.

Any engine that has to rev to get horsepower wears quicker.

Save on fuel...(maybe)...but wear more parts doing it.......Tough choice.



I suppose if petrol gets to 10 dollars a litre....

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by z80

I think the 4 cylinder falcon will be short lived and plagued with problems.

Falcon fleet drivers will rev the crap out of it, create unreliability/warranty issues and give it a bad name.

Any engine that has to rev to get horsepower wears quicker.

Save on fuel...(maybe)...but wear more parts doing it.......Tough choice.



I suppose if petrol gets to 10 dollars a litre....

Another great post troll. The 4T makes peak torque lower than the XR6 Turbo or XR8. It does not need to be revved hard, and even if it was, it will not suddenly fall apart. Ever heard of durability testing? During testing it will be flogged harder than any person could do in the cars entire life. One of Fords tests is too hold the engine at max revs for days on end. No person could ever do that sort of torture on a public road.

Now crawl back under your bridge troll, your posts are getting more pathetic by the day.

[ehast13]

A good chunk of boost will make this engine feel a lot bigger than 2.0. Drive a e-class merc or audi a6 with a boosted four pot and u won't question the ability of this car to deliver adequate performance.

Example - E200k Mercedes. Boosted 1.8litre four banger. 135kw, 1600kg. Sounds a bit lame. Drive it and u realize that the flat torque curve makes up for a lack of capacity and cylinders

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by z80

I think the 4 cylinder falcon will be short lived and plagued with problems.

Falcon fleet drivers will rev the crap out of it, create unreliability/warranty issues and give it a bad name.

Any engine that has to rev to get horsepower wears quicker.

Save on fuel...(maybe)...but wear more parts doing it.......Tough choice.



I suppose if petrol gets to 10 dollars a litre....

Peoples perceptions. : Some people need to let go.

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by z80

I think the 4 cylinder falcon will be short lived and plagued with problems.

Falcon fleet drivers will rev the crap out of it, create unreliability/warranty issues and give it a bad name.

Any engine that has to rev to get horsepower wears quicker.

Save on fuel...(maybe)...but wear more parts doing it.......Tough choice.



I suppose if petrol gets to 10 dollars a litre....

No revving required here :

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

No revving required here :

: Look at that, someone just got put in there place!

[Chilliman]

Full article at:

http://inventorspot.com/articles/for...t_engine_30576

[1LOUDXFUTE]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

(pic removed)
No revving required here :

love it

[Luke Plaizier]

OK, now I remember being told either at the BF or FG stage that the Twin VCT arrangement on the I6 was independent of one another.

And now I read in that link that the Ecoboost I4 is the first worldwide application of Ti-VCT.

WTF?


Lukeyson

[Toke]

Its a pity this engine isn't here at the moment competing against the base model alloytec as it is only 5kw less and makes the same torque BUT HEAPS EARLIER.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

OK, now I remember being told either at the BF or FG stage that the Twin VCT arrangement on the I6 was independent of one another.

And now I read in that link that the Ecoboost I4 is the first worldwide application of Ti-VCT.

WTF?


Lukeyson

It says first Ti VCT in an Ecoboost application.

[Luke Plaizier]

Sure. So it's all in the brand. Or is it that the Turbo I6 doesn't have Twin Independent VCT?

All of this Ecoboost stuff sure makes you wonder how much the I6 played in the decision making process.


Lukeyson