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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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01-02-2010, 01:29 AM | #61 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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While the G6ET is a lovely car, I'm sure Holden had pinched sales by having a Calais V available now.... |
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01-02-2010, 04:06 AM | #62 | |||
Getting it done.....
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You have obviously driven your current car for years so waht is a few more weeks...most of the time i hear reasonse like this for buying a car it is to paper over the real, blinkered or simlistic motivation. If you can't plan your next car purchase well enough to account for a few more weeks wait well no wonder you end up the inferior car.....
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Dynamic White 1995 EF XR6 Auto Now with: Pacemaker 4499s Lukey Catback Exhaust Chrome BA XR-style tip Airdam Mounted CAI with modified (bellmouth) airbox Trip Computer install KYB shocks Bridgestone Adrenalin tyres Coming Soon: Exhaust Overhaul..... |
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01-02-2010, 07:36 AM | #63 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
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If you have a walk in that wants a particular car/colour, you better have it or they'll go down the road..... The harsh reality for dealers is that mingled amongst time wasting tyre kickers is a bunch of shoppers that are looking to buy that do research in the form of checking off boxes on lists and one of those is "available right now" - the salesperson's biggest tool, deny them that and sales walk. |
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01-02-2010, 07:39 AM | #64 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. |
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01-02-2010, 07:49 AM | #65 | |||
Donating Member
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03-02-2010, 11:01 AM | #66 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,505
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I read on page one about the trip computer and the DTE figures that were discussed - most GPS devices can monitor distance as well as speed and my falcon (BA) and the newly acquired focus (XR5T) is bang on with both saying to within .2 kms over 100 on the GPS - so as was alluded to the commodore trip computer if is clocking more kms is clearly wrong. Jump in a commo with a GPS and check for yourself.
on page two (I think) there was talk about the role women play in car choice, if this is true then mazda must be going gangbusters - all the women I see in newer cars are either driving mazda 3 or mazda 6, the women I see driving commodores are driving slightly older ones er VT VX (I think) which could have been bought secondhand for alot less money (ex fleet perhaps) ok now on to the talk about "waits" fact is younger people are very impatient they want it you don't have it they go to somebody who does have it. the black eyed peas said it best "we are the now generation - make me wait and i'll whip your ***" they dont like waiting at all for anything, a wait of more than 90 seconds is considered heinous at mcdonalds and they are screaming for additional staff or a manager to whip them or something!, it is a fair call that there are people that want a car and want it immediately then they will buy what they can get no matter the badge or the quality. And besides buy a car at the start of the year and get last years' model plate at a discount and you will get whatever you want and quite quickly too after all they don't want last years' plated cars hanging around for any longer than is absolutely necessary hence the discounting. the only way I can see ford countering this "wait" issue is to stock every dealership with one of everything in every color that way you walk in its there you walk out getting the instant gratification hit you so desire. Me on the other hand will wait to get exactly what I want and I am realistic they can't predict the future and make one earmarked for me before I order it. Well they can guess what will sell but that means having more cars clogging up dealerships and awaiting sale, both holden and Ford swapped remember the days when Ford used to belt them out and there was yards at broadmeadows FULL of new cars all the colors of the rainbow awaiting sale? its a bean counter thing the accountants said nono do it this way and fill orders it will cost you less and make you more competitvely priced against your rivals. If either manufacturer were to return to that business model the price of the cars they sell would have to increase giving them a price disadvantage in the marketplace.
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Phantom, T56, leather and sunroof BAmk1 :yeees: Holden special vehicles - for special people |
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03-02-2010, 11:40 AM | #67 | |||
Fordaholic
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10-02-2010, 05:12 PM | #68 | |||
Guess Who's Back?
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The 18th Letter |
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10-02-2010, 05:27 PM | #69 | ||
trying to get a leg over
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,690
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And the great unwashed continue to lap up the drivel that Holden feed to them, keeping the Commonwhore Australia's number one selling car.
Ford should use tests like this to their marketing advantage, but they will just sit back on their hands and wait for the next months V Facts to come out and get slaughtered yet again.
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Cameron ------------------------------------------------------ |
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10-02-2010, 05:59 PM | #70 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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http://www.carsales.com.au/advice/20...lcon-xr6-18258
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10-02-2010, 07:09 PM | #71 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
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Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
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XR6 has trounced the SV6/S since the B-series days.
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Daniel |
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10-02-2010, 07:29 PM | #72 | |||
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10-02-2010, 07:34 PM | #73 | ||
Regular Member
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The 3.6SIDI engine is superior to the I6, remember, the I6 struggles to keep up with the detuned version in the Commodore currently.
The XR6 on the other hand is a better car. The 3.0l well... they needed at least 3.2l... |
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10-02-2010, 07:40 PM | #74 | ||
Donating Member
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^^ I wouldnt be the only one to suggest that the I6 is not running at its full capability either.....
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10-02-2010, 08:26 PM | #75 | |||
Fordaholic
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10-02-2010, 08:29 PM | #76 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Its lack of wagon, almost 15,000 Commodores last year were wagons, and thats without a LPG version anymore! Im looking at a Holden for the first time, solely on the fact I can get a wagon in SV6, Calais or SS trim. Ive owned nothing but Fords, and yet Im considering a Holden - hell hath frozen over. Anyone would prefer a Falcon over a Commodore, I have never seen a generation of Falcon be so superior over a Commodore. Even in the VZ/BA days there seem to be some victories to the Holden. But nowadays the Ford is trumping it. The old 'blame it on the AU days' is rubbish, people move on and they consider the current product. Any lack of sales can no longer be blamed on the past, either they are not selling it right, not building it right, or not pricing it right. |
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10-02-2010, 08:47 PM | #77 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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10-02-2010, 09:18 PM | #78 | |||
Rob
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Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,777
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if its for space, have you compared the luggage capacity of the holden wagon with a falcon sedan boot? not much in it. as for holdens winning the sales war, holden could wack a badge on a ******** and people would buy it. |
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10-02-2010, 09:27 PM | #79 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,760
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People dont just buy wagons for the space. The wider, generally lower, boot opening simply makes them more practical.
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10-02-2010, 09:52 PM | #80 | |||
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Its the versatility, when the kids are in the back- the dog can jump in the boot. When I mow my mums lawns I can fold down the seat and whack the lawnmower in there. One of my sons does BMXing, we can chuck his bike in the back. We use a lot of gear when doing cross-country horse riding and it also would be good to have more height in the boot. Plus sedans are kinda boring, lately I just think of them as government camrys or rental cars. I want a sporty and luxurious roomy hatch or a wagon. Apart from being a Commodore (boo) - the Sportwagon is a bloody good package. |
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10-02-2010, 09:55 PM | #81 | ||
Donating Member
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On the subject of XR6 wagons, does anyone know how well the last did in sales? (EF if im not mistaken). I know the market has changed since then, but might be an interesting base for conversation (in another thread of course)
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10-02-2010, 10:00 PM | #82 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,777
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so why don't they sell. the current set up is not a fair comparison in the ford stable but the reason it is like this is simply due to the fact that the wagon wasn't selling in the first place. in the ed/ef range, ford had the whole range of wagons, except xr8. in the couple of years the ED was on sale (93/94), around 400 xr6 wagons sold. in the EF series (94/95) only 476 xr6 wagons sold. there simply was no market for them. same with fairmont and ghia wagons. the fact that the holden wagon appears to be selling doesn't really mean anything. daewoo could barely buy a sale when they were in aus, and yet now that they are back except with holden badging, they are selling in droves. |
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10-02-2010, 10:28 PM | #83 | ||
as in chopped
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,991
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GM Daewoo < GM OWN them. The new flock of GM Daewoo are GM global product based on global platforms. (don't think old Daewoo because they died!)
14000 Sportwagons for 2009 is a pretty good figure when you see the sedan number was about 28000. 4600 Hearsewagons for Ford. So combining both brands you get about 20000 wagons in total. If 25% of the wagon market wants "lot's of space", what do the other 75% want ?
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-> Reading this signature was pointless <- |
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10-02-2010, 10:37 PM | #84 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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10-02-2010, 10:48 PM | #85 | ||
You dig, we stick!
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Posts: 7,461
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Rigged. It should have been 5/5; how can the SV6 win on comfort?
Would you feel comfortable knowing you've just bought a car that would get handed it's backside around a circuit by something with 20 less hp? I think not. Or maybe that you've just bought a car with an "aging interior" instead of the Falcon that "strikes you as a more modern and appealing interior design"? I say this in jest of course, but I wonder how hard they tried not to make it 5/5. TWICE! |
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10-02-2010, 11:11 PM | #86 | |||
Getting it done.....
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Simple fact is that if you look at it point by point the commodore strugles to make a valid case. Apart from the notional more advanced engine, personal preferences in styling and a bigger on paper HP (for SV6 versus XR6 anyway) there is really no area the commodore can compete with FG. Just none. It does not burn any less fuel (appreciably at least....in fact is may burn more), its greater badge HP is not translated to the road, its transmissions are not as good, nor its ride, NVH, interior or build. The SIDI 'engine upgrade' was its only chance to be even half competitive since a win there would have almost balanced out its other deficiencies...but now that is not working well to use a phrase coined by Greg Murphy (of all people) at a VE launch promo video, 'why would you buy one?'. He said that as a PR stunt in reference to a current falcon of the time (BF).... Fair enough, he was on the Holden payroll. Difference is it wasn't reallly true (VE never had it over BF....at least not convincingly). Its looking pretty true for the VE versus the FG though....
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Dynamic White 1995 EF XR6 Auto Now with: Pacemaker 4499s Lukey Catback Exhaust Chrome BA XR-style tip Airdam Mounted CAI with modified (bellmouth) airbox Trip Computer install KYB shocks Bridgestone Adrenalin tyres Coming Soon: Exhaust Overhaul..... |
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10-02-2010, 11:24 PM | #87 | |||
Getting it done.....
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The 3.6 SIDI engine is NOT superior to the I6. How you come to that conclusion is baffling not only because numerous reviews have said otherwise but just based on a simple look at the spec sheets makes it clear enough. The SIDI tech (Direct injection) is a more 'modern' technology (though it has been aroun for years) but that alone does not make it a superior engine. The greater peak HP of 210 kw versus 195 doesn't either...peak power is only one of many engine benchmarks and while it may come as a surprise to some its not even one of the top 5 most important.... The SIDI engine has been shown (even in 3.6 form) to not propel the VE any faster than the I6 does FG (save perhaps a few tenths), nor does it burn any less fuel (with similar weight/gearing). Its NVH is not appreicably superior, and its driveability (torque delivery etc) is arguably inferior.... How does any of this make it better? And before you say 'but the Holden version is detuned'....well may i say 'so what'. It competes in the Aus market in the Commodore versus the Falcon....its a moot point what version of the engine achieves overseas (often with diff. fuel qualities and local compliance issues). Moreover, given the very high torque figure if Ford wanted to make more peak power (the only area the 3.6 SIDI would ever have any hope of winning) they woud only need to rev it higher...and not much higher then it does now (with associated tuning changes). Its also worth noting there is plenty of evidence around (online etc.) that show the alloytec to be a pretty sub standard design generally, DI or not. The ford 3.7 duratec V6 (notional I6 replacmeent long term) has no problem matching and eclipsing the 3.6 DI (in US cadilac spec!) without DI....so its not like Ford has anything to worry about from the GM front RE V6s any time soon.....
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Dynamic White 1995 EF XR6 Auto Now with: Pacemaker 4499s Lukey Catback Exhaust Chrome BA XR-style tip Airdam Mounted CAI with modified (bellmouth) airbox Trip Computer install KYB shocks Bridgestone Adrenalin tyres Coming Soon: Exhaust Overhaul..... |
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10-02-2010, 11:35 PM | #88 | ||
You dig, we stick!
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Posts: 7,461
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Keelan, he means the US 227kW version.
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10-02-2010, 11:50 PM | #89 | ||
Banned
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Can you imagine what would happen if holden listened to what ford people know is wrong with the holden and fixed it it would rule the roads for good haha
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11-02-2010, 12:14 AM | #90 | ||||
Getting it done.....
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Dynamic White 1995 EF XR6 Auto Now with: Pacemaker 4499s Lukey Catback Exhaust Chrome BA XR-style tip Airdam Mounted CAI with modified (bellmouth) airbox Trip Computer install KYB shocks Bridgestone Adrenalin tyres Coming Soon: Exhaust Overhaul..... |
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