Will HSV lose customers over new coyote ?

[DanielXR8]

Drove a GS yesterday and it was a fantastic car. This from someone who was burn't with their previous FPV vehicle. I was impressed with the engineering and even the build quality, so I am definitely looking at one, but I have been looking at HSV too.

To swing me over to the GS or GT, Ford and FPV will have to start putting more standard kit in them. The GS a nearly 60K car has an XT stereo in it. Looking at a 50th Anniversary car in the same showroom, you have to ask why that is the case. If Ford can throw all that in a a 50th and pull a profit, then there really is no excuse.

GT is also looking a little thin on standard equipment for the money too. For me I'II am holding off to see if FG2 delivers the extra kit these cars should have.

My wife who is no car fan, even asked after my test drive why the GS didn't have Ford Sync and why you can't get front parking sensors on the options list.

The standard equipment lists on these cars is still stuck in 2005, while the rest of the industry has moved on.

I think given HSV's extra standard equipment, Ford and FPV need to move these cars with more standard equipment and preferably yesterday. It would certainly help to sway buying decisions to Ford?FPV way.

Dan

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Drove a GS yesterday and it was a fantastic car. This from someone who was burn't with their previous FPV vehicle. I was impressed with the engineering and even the build quality, so I am definitely looking at one, but I have been looking at HSV too.

To swing me over to the GS or GT, Ford and FPV will have to start putting more standard kit in them. The GS a nearly 60K car has an XT stereo in it. Looking at a 50th Anniversary car in the same showroom, you have to ask why that is the case. If Ford can throw all that in a a 50th and pull a profit, then there really is no excuse.

GT is also looking a little thin on standard equipment for the money too. For me I'II am holding off to see if FG2 delivers the extra kit these cars should have. The equipment lists on these cars is still stuck in 2005.

I think given HSV's extra standard equipment, Ford and FPV need to move these cars with more standard equipment and preferably yesterday.

Dan

Be careful.

I got smashed when I did a review on the GS and whinged about its povo interior!!

Its got a really fast motor, so stop your whinging

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Be careful.

I got smashed when I did a review on the GS and whinged about its povo interior!!

Its got a really fast motor, so stop your whinging

Yes I recall that you did and I believe you were right. On equipment and that faster engine!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Be careful.

I got smashed when I did a review on the GS and whinged about its povo interior!!

Its got a really fast motor, so stop your whinging

Lets be honest, Id hardly call the XR interior "povo"... its just not as good as the GT's.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Be careful.

I got smashed when I did a review on the GS and whinged about its povo interior!!

Its got a really fast motor, so stop your whinging

Which is somewhat of a crackup really as there are dozens of posts on here from over the years whinging how the FPVs are too "luxo-barge" and they should make a basic no frills version with a bloody powerful engine......

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by flappist

Which is somewhat of a crackup really as there are dozens of posts on here from over the years whinging how the FPVs are too "luxo-barge" and they should make a basic no frills version with a bloody powerful engine......

Not by me..

Ive already got a povo XR6.. I dont want another one.

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Lets be honest, Id hardly call the XR interior "povo"... its just not as good as the GT's.

To be honest Norm my AUIII XR6 VCT had a nicer interior then my current XR6. I think for me personally the seat trim is the issue, I would have had leather but my dealer couldnt get one me one for 6 weeks so I had to settle for the cloth... FPV can source another trim of the same cost no doubt...

[Rastas]

Its obvious that FPV will sell more vehicals in the last 3 months of this year than they did in the previous 9 months, that statement alone should tell us all that FPV will be expecting a considerably bigger market share in the future.
There is no doubt several ex HSV drivers will switch to the miami, but id guess most of them would be old ford V8 drivers returning now ford has the superior 8.
I'd also expect a few (ex euro) executives to be tempted by the miami's sheer power,
and hopefully the FPV's will be even more tempting come FG2.
Overall i would predict FPV to be expecting 2500+ sales a year for the next 2 years, (significantly more than the last 2), but still below HSV's figures, as they have alot of loyal red customers .

[Supercharged]

A mate of mine was telling me today that he was looking for a new car and went and looked at an SS Commodore. He said he disliked it as soon as he sat in it and disliked it even more when he drove it, what a bucket was his words.
He hasn’t owned a Holden for years and currently drives a Honda euro but he is a die hard Holden supporter and when I suggested he go and test drive a Falcon he just looked at me and shook his head. I knew when I suggested that there would be no way he would even test drive a Falcon just in case he liked it. The Holden guys seem to be so brand loyal that they will buy a Jap car and that is OK but the thought of buying a Ford is simply out of the question.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Not by me..

Ive already got a povo XR6.. I dont want another one.


To be honest Norm my AUIII XR6 VCT had a nicer interior then my current XR6. I think for me personally the seat trim is the issue, I would have had leather but my dealer couldnt get one me one for 6 weeks so I had to settle for the cloth... FPV can source another trim of the same cost no doubt...

I guess its a matter of taste, i've found each revision since my AU 2 XR8 to be an improvement interior wise.
I think the engine's performance is going to overcome the modest interior by the looks of the striking popularity of the GS already...
Allot of people are clearly looking for a basic budget racer...

[jpd80]

Ford and Holden buyers are not the same, FPV and HSV buyers are not the same.

That passion that used to be there for a V8 like XR8 no longer exists,
and there are still quite a few unsold XR8s sitting there with discounts...

I doubt that Holden would have many older V8 SS Commodores sitting there,
their sales of V8 cars are quite brisk by comparison, mainly because the play to the fan..

[Ben73]

I used to be a Holden fan and never really paid attention to Ford.
But after I drove a brand new XR6 for the first time I realized Ford has good products and is way better over the equivelent SV6 Commodore.
Plus many holden drivers are bogan hoons,
Plus new HSV are definitely ugly.

So some people can change sides, but Die hard fans never will.

[dave289]

I have asked the holden boys the question on LS1.com ,so we'll see what they have to say .

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=143014

[GT450]

To swing me over to the GS or GT, Ford and FPV will have to start putting more standard kit in them. The GS a nearly 60K car has an XT stereo in it. Looking at a 50th Anniversary car in the same showroom, you have to ask why that is the case. If Ford can throw all that in a a 50th and pull a profit, then there really is no excuse.

I agree Daniel the engine in these cars can only cover up their deficicnes in other areas for so long .You hop into a GS and find XR trim and for $60k that , in my opinion , is cheap and nasty and wrong. The least they could have done is give it it's own trim. Now before all you guys arc up the flamethrowers this is a common theme amongst forum contributors so we cannot all be wrong.
Having a bare bones entry level car is one thing but at least give it a separate identity for $60k is that asking too much?
Cheers
GT450

[Mr Brooksy]

Originally Posted by dave289

I have asked the holden boys the question on LS1.com ,so we'll see what they have to say .

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=143014

Dave I just had a read of a review and many pages of comments on ls1 and there seems to be a few fans! Even a few who might switch camps for the GT. I was really surprised as I have kept an eye on that forum for a while, and "Ford" is a dirty word to many.

Good sign for FPV, not so for HSV.

I would imagine that its the best moment in time for FPV to deliver a killer punch like the 5.0 S/C as many HSV owners dislike the exterior of their H2 and H3's.

[Flaming Mo]

I am what you would call a swinging motorist. I owned a BA GT-P, but had to offload it due to some oil consumption and engine issues. I currently have a blown E1 GTS that thankfully hasn’t missed a beat and I love the shape.

I will say HSV have lost me with the visual aesthetics their latest offerings. Very disappointed with the new look, and I stress this is my opinion only. When I first saw pictures, I gave it the benefit of the doubt and waited until I saw one in the flesh. I think seeing one in person made it worse. It reminded me of that Simpson’s episode where Homer designed one car, with different design cues from about ten others. I couldn’t comprehend how all the added design features had made it through all the checks and balances at HSV to get rubber stamped.

When one comes towards me on the road, I don’t know what to look at – the bright running lights, the other driving lights below them, maybe one of the half dozen odd grills and vents or perhaps the black treatment. By the time it has passed, the actual shape of the car has been lost with all the distractions.

And I dare not look in the rear view once it has passed. Don’t get me started on the rear end. The picture in this link should be self explanatory.

http://theage.drive.com.au/photogall...electedImage=3

The only colour I would consider in the HSV’s is black, and that is because it somewhat disguises the mess they’ve made. But with their sales, obviously many would disagree. Perhaps I’m being a little harsh and overly picky.

I sat in one of the new FPV 335’s the other day. Felt nice (the FPV seats are so much better). FPV lost me for a little bit as their previous recycling of old wheels and the like just smacked of a lack of effort. The FPV’s now certainly have the goods in the looks dept over the HSV’s. I could definitely be swayed back (but definitely no stripes).

[dave289]

They have added a poll to my thread on ls1.com. It seems like theres quite a few that would be willing to give the fpv a go .

poll results so far.......2 out of 3 have said yes or maybe...

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthre...=1#post1819373

[dave289]

Also found this positive write up from what appears to be a hardcore holden man.

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=142853

[XR6_661]

No, I don’t think so...

The way I see it, HSV and FPV are very much for the enthusiast, the purist...If you buy one, you buy it because you want that specific make. Ol mate off to buy a HSV isn’t going to be like, mmm I love my HSVs but, the new FPV offering is better.

That’s the way I see it at least...If it makes any sense at all haha

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by XR6_661

No, I don’t think so...

The way I see it, HSV and FPV are very much for the enthusiast, the purist...If you buy one, you buy it because you want that specific make. Ol mate off to buy a HSV isn’t going to be like, mmm I love my HSVs but, the new FPV offering is better.

I've owned an FPV and an HSV. I'm not going to blindly hand over my money just because of the badge on the front of the car.

I'd say the core probably won't sway but there are those of us who prefer value for our money rather than brand loyalty. I'm sure the new Coyote will steal those potential sales. How much of the market is made up of those buyers, I have no idea.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Drove a GS yesterday and it was a fantastic car. This from someone who was burn't with their previous FPV vehicle. I was impressed with the engineering and even the build quality, so I am definitely looking at one, but I have been looking at HSV too.

To swing me over to the GS or GT, Ford and FPV will have to start putting more standard kit in them. The GS a nearly 60K car has an XT stereo in it. Looking at a 50th Anniversary car in the same showroom, you have to ask why that is the case. If Ford can throw all that in a a 50th and pull a profit, then there really is no excuse.

GT is also looking a little thin on standard equipment for the money too. For me I'II am holding off to see if FG2 delivers the extra kit these cars should have.

My wife who is no car fan, even asked after my test drive why the GS didn't have Ford Sync and why you can't get front parking sensors on the options list.

The standard equipment lists on these cars is still stuck in 2005, while the rest of the industry has moved on.

I think given HSV's extra standard equipment, Ford and FPV need to move these cars with more standard equipment and preferably yesterday. It would certainly help to sway buying decisions to Ford?FPV way.

Dan

Don't wait, buy the HSV. You can't live your life waiting.

The GTS is where it’s at for gadgets no question and would definitely be my choice. Take no notice of the reviews, it’s a very focused product and one where you will not have any regrets. It would certainly be my choice. Inside the car it has a better note than the FPVs and has all the party tricks you rate.

Obviously depending on budget you would also be looking at some Euros including the Ford Mondeo. VW right there for quality as well.

Good luck.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by HSE2

Don't wait, buy the HSV. You can't live your life waiting.

The GTS is where it’s at for gadgets no question and would definitely be my choice. Take no notice of the reviews, it’s a very focused product and one where you will not have any regrets. It would certainly be my choice. Inside the car it has a better note than the FPVs and has all the party tricks you rate.

Obviously depending on budget you would also be looking at some Euros including the Ford Mondeo. VW right there for quality as well.

Good luck.

Ford will get the gadgets or Ford won't get the sales. Both brands have always had to compete. As the recent equipment thrown into the limited edition Commodores and 50th Anniversary Falcon cars show.

Only a matter of time. Besides you never buy the first of anything Ford put out as you are used as a BETA tester and you know more standard kit will be coming after the Ford diehards spend their cash and you are looking at the fussier buyers or those who want an excuse to upgrade.

HSV styling doesn't work for me as it looks too Star Wars in the latest round of updates. VW are no better than a Mazda, but cost more.

No hurry. I have a very nice car right now, that is fun to drive and very reliable, so I can afford to wait and see what happens with the cars. If the reliability and durability holds up (always a question mark unfortunately) and the cars have a couple of the inevitable equipment upgrades, the time will be right. Otherwise those other options you suggested will still be there and be better too at that point.

As things currently stand the GS and GT are shaping up to be very good cars, with this motor. You should give them a chance to prove themselves. Certainly a glance at the carsales ads would already suggest most dealers feel the GS should be fitted with leather as standard. I also suspect a colour screen will be in all Falcons come FGII, to better compete with Holden, whose sales have increased post VE II.

For all the rabbiting on from both camps about how they don't compete with each other, a quick look at the history and features both have introduced over the years, shows that they very much do.

Dan

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Only a matter of time. Besides you never buy the first of anything Ford put out as you are used as a BETA tester and you know more standard kit will be coming after the Ford diehards spend their cash and you are looking at the fussier buyers or those who want an excuse to upgrade.

It's probably worse this time around. The coyote is at the tail end of the series 1, I'm sure the series 2 will bring upgrades and gadgets that will bring the GT/GS a little closer to the HSV in ****y playthings... It'll also likely give resale on the S1 coyote a bigger hit than normal.

[phillyc]

That poll over on ls1 suggests that from 184 respondants that 40% would consider changing and 32% wouldn't. They are pretty hardcore over there. Solid result that 68% would at least consider a Coyote FPV.

Similar 67% to 33% in the DRIVE poll from 5000+ responses.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by phillyc

That poll over on ls1 suggests that from 184 respondants that 40% would consider changing and 32% wouldn't. They are pretty hardcore over there. Solid result that 68% would at least consider a Coyote FPV.

Similar 67% to 33% in the DRIVE poll from 5000+ responses.

No doubt about it, this engine is a game changer for FPV.

Dan

[kpcart]

Originally Posted by Rastas

Its obvious that FPV will sell more vehicals in the last 3 months of this year than they did in the previous 9 months, that statement alone should tell us all that FPV will be expecting a considerably bigger market share in the future.
There is no doubt several ex HSV drivers will switch to the miami, but id guess most of them would be old ford V8 drivers returning now ford has the superior 8.
I'd also expect a few (ex euro) executives to be tempted by the miami's sheer power,
and hopefully the FPV's will be even more tempting come FG2.
Overall i would predict FPV to be expecting 2500+ sales a year for the next 2 years, (significantly more than the last 2), but still below HSV's figures, as they have alot of loyal red customers .

the 'supeior 8' is a bit of a judgement call. it brings it up to holdens level and maybe just a bit over (in terms of power and performance) but only just and holden have the cubic inch adventage for future updates. if holden had the same sought of supercharged setup they would do 370kw+ but havent needed to do it since Ford was always behind. the holden-chev engines are long term proven, in the next year holden will no doubt release something even better, but if sales continue to be good (because of superior chassis design to fords) then they might no even need to upgrade the engines and still remain on top.

I like Ford, obvously because i have driven their cars for the last 6 years (bu only 6 cyl cars), but i dont think these new cars will help them regain the market. Ford have stuffed up for so many years, leaving their fans dissapointed, and have left Holden with a genuine advantage. The market will decide, but i dont think Ford have done enough, the power of the engines only just matches holdens, and the cubes have gone down not up, which is important for muscle car buyers. also the styling of the FG is just a catchup to the VE commodore and every buyer knows that.

This is a step forward for ford, out with the lumpy heavy very dated 5.4L that every knows wasnt as fast as the "turbo 6" and especially not the hsvs, but they have aleady stuffed up with the styling of the FG, which when released looked like it was playing catchup to holden. and now the engine, though the outputs are good, the capacity is down, and i think thats a bad thing. 5.0 sounds worse then 6.2. and 4.0 "turbo" 270kw sounds more "thrilling" then (heavy in everyones mind) V8 - 5.0 coyote.

[jpd80]

Critics are a dime a dozen, let's see how many actual sales FPV gets from the new Coyote
because after all, the only Voice Ford/FPV can hear is the people willing to buy a new one....

[Jason[98.EL]]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Critics are a dime a dozen, let's see how many actual sales FPV gets from the new Coyote
because after all, the only Voice Ford/FPV can hear is the people willing to buy a new one....

I know I would be buying one if i could afford one and that would be a GTP


but unfortunately i am in no position to buy one unless i won tats or the likes

[dave289]

If its realiability your after ,then your best getting the fpv by the look of it.
To think this problem has been going on for years now and still no fix. Wonder if the ve2 still has this problem as they have not been able to fix it by now in ve1 then you would have to be a bit suss.

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=75189

[drew`SEVNT5]

Originally Posted by dave289

If its realiability your after ,then your best getting the fpv by the look of it.
To think this problem has been going on for years now and still no fix. Wonder if the ve2 still has this problem as they have not been able to fix it by now in ve1 then you would have to be a bit suss.

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=75189

I don't think Ford Fans should be laughing too hard about problems that have been going on for years... We have had our fair share of them too, remember.

[MexicanBatman]

NO!

HSV aren't a competitor to FPV, HSV is more of a competitor to AMG series mercs and Porsche and Aston Martin and even the Bugatti Veyron and Hot Wheels, or that's at least what they made it sound like in a magazine article I read a while ago.... LOL

I think if your one of the few people who want to drive the better car and the badge isn't an issue, then FPV will get plenty of them sales, the diehard one eyed collingwood fans.... Err HSV fans won't jump ship, and I hope they don't! You can keep them!