12 production days cut for next 3 months

[Gobes32]

Ok, I obviously had my monthly moment this afternoon but to say that things are morbid at my place of employment would be an understatement. I love Ford, I live Ford, and it kills me to know we have such a great product and yet we would struggle to give them away at the moment. A Falcon would be my first choice but I also frequent a Forum devoted to that vehicle numerous times a day, so therefore I am an enthusiast, and argue as much as you like, but that puts me in the minority. Holden may sell more vehicles and Commodore is still number one, but who is the number one seller of private vehicles in oz, I don't know the answer but am almost sure it's not Commodore.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by prydey

or you get a large car, that is cheap to run, doesn't feel like a barge, cheaper to maintain etc etc.

I doubt people really think about running and maintenance costs when choosing a new car. The odd person does but not many people I know. Medium size SUVs arent much bigger than a large sedan and they offer more load capacity for a family. They also give the soccer mums are "more powerful" driving position.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Holden may sell more vehicles and Commodore is still number one, but who is the number one seller of private vehicles in oz, I don't know the answer but am almost sure it's not Commodore.

Mazda is what I keep reading.

[Gobes32]

double post

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Mazda is what I keep reading.

That was my thought process too. Its great to sell 2500 Omega's at cost price but I bet Holden would rather sell 500 SSV's with the usual 10% profit built in. Fleet sales make for bragging rights, but private sales put money in the bank. And I am open to criticism here, but most private buyers at not looking at Falcon's and Commodores.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

That was my thought process too. Its great to sell 2500 Omega's at cost price but I bet Holden would rather sell 500 SSV's with the usual 10% profit built in. Fleet sales make for bragging rights, but private sales put money in the bank. And I am open to criticism here, but most private buyers at not looking at Falcon's and Commodores.

I must be different. Two Falcons both new private sales.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by vztrt

I must be different. Two Falcons both new private sales.

But you also are a car "enthusiast" and it seems we are a diminishing breed.......

[Joe5619]

Let’s be honest... Fleet/ Government sales have ALWAYS been the backbone of Falcon & Commodore sales in large numbers, even 10-20-30 years ago. Problem now, fleets/ government aren't buying them now... All of the top selling models sold each month are there because of fleet/ government sales..

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Let’s be honest... Fleet/ Government sales have ALWAYS been the backbone of Falcon & Commodore sales in large numbers, even 10-20-30 years ago. Problem now, fleets/ government aren't buying them now... All of the top selling models sold each month are there because of fleet/ government sales..

Ecoboost has the potential to change that. Hopefully the tailpipe emissions will come in roughly at parity with the (normal) Camry which will put it back on the shopping list of government fleets.

[WOTDAH]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

to say that things are morbid at my place of employment would be an understatement.

The mood is no different up here in Broadmeadows. At the moment there are unsold cars crammed into every spare meter arount the factory. Even if the new Terry and Gas models become big sellers all it going to do is delay the inevitable.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Holden may sell more vehicles and Commodore is still number one, but who is the number one seller of private vehicles in oz, I don't know the answer but am almost sure it's not Commodore.

Definately not Commodore. The answer is Mazda 3 with 85% private sales.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by WOTDAH

The mood is no different up here in Broadmeadows. At the moment there are unsold cars crammed into every spare meter arount the factory. Even if the new Terry and Gas models become big sellers all it going to do is delay the inevitable.

But the inevitable mightn't be such a bad thing, its pretty clear that FoA are looking as hard as they can at keeping jobs, like the Bosch brake contract. Atleast it seems that way.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by WOTDAH

The mood is no different up here in Broadmeadows. At the moment there are unsold cars crammed into every spare meter arount the factory. Even if the new Terry and Gas models become big sellers all it going to do is delay the inevitable.

Last time I was up there I saw a lot of petrol base model utes, I suppose nothing has changed in that regard?

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Definately not Commodore. The answer is Mazda 3 with 85% private sales.

Can't argue witht that, Mazda 3 is a very good car.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Last time I was up there I saw a lot of petrol base model utes, I suppose nothing has changed in that regard?

So I guess the word is that one should hold off on buying a Falcon or Ute because there should be some pretty heavy discounting soon. Probably will be even more so, because people will stop buying, waiting for the heavy discounting.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

So I guess the word is that one should hold off on buying a Falcon or Ute because there should be some pretty heavy discounting soon. Probably will be even more so, because people will stop buying, waiting for the heavy discounting.

There should be a program soon for Friends of Fords to receive incentives to purchase. I don't think they will do a public sale at this stage.

[gtfpv]

this thread is simply just too long to read all the posts . but i sense a little DOOM AND GLOOM here . relax .
there is a place for a large car , it is there for singles with or without boats , it is there for couples with kids , and it is needed for holidays . people buy them for safetry over features . i'm not buying a focus with a touch screen , even if its power to weight is the same as a falcon . when i buy a car . A head on collision is something i would like a chance at surviving if it were to happen . 4 wheel drives are a large car also . thats why people buy these , not so they can drive through rivers .
there is an economy problem here . all the NAY sayers for years have been telling us life is the same as it was 30 years ago , IT AINT . people approaching 40 these days , many many havent had , and still cannot afford a new big car , even at $40k.
the simjple fact is , they probaby wont get cheaper . so whats the answer . ""SALARY SACRIFICE" novated leasing . that will come in I imagine shortly, more so . however , having one of the highest casual employment rates in the world - the lucky country . i dont know the formula for success .
I will state though , there is always a market for a large car , holden and falcon , are still the pick , for many die hards . i know my fg is as good as if not better than many imports . features arent always why we buy a car . nintendo games on a touch screen in your car is for punces.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

this thread is simply just too long to read all the posts . but i sense a little DOOM AND GLOOM here . relax .
there is a place for a large car , it is there for singles with or without boats , it is there for couples with kids , and it is needed for holidays . people buy them for safetry over features . i'm not buying a focus with a touch screen , even if its power to weight is the same as a falcon . when i buy a car . A head on collision is something i would like a chance at surviving if it were to happen . 4 wheel drives are a large car also . thats why people buy these , not so they can drive through rivers .
there is an economy problem here . all the NAY sayers for years have been telling us life is the same as it was 30 years ago , IT AINT . people approaching 40 these days , many many havent had , and still cannot afford a new big car , even at $40k.
the simjple fact is , they probaby wont get cheaper . so whats the answer . ""SALARY SACRIFICE" novated leasing . that will come in I imagine shortly, more so . however , having one of the highest casual employment rates in the world - the lucky country . i dont know the formula for success .
I will state though , there is always a market for a large car , holden and falcon , are still the pick , for many die hards . i know my fg is as good as if not better than many imports . features arent always why we buy a car . nintendo games on a touch screen in your car is for punces.

No one doubts there is a market for everything. Be it small kettles or Large cars. But there comes a time, when the maker of the large car decides that there isnt any money to be made making it. The Australian manufacturers reached that point along time ago, its just a matter of deciding how long they want to hang on. Mitsy didnt stop production on the 380 because monthly sales dropped to 1. At closure time, they were still selling approx 1000 per month. So from memory, Mitsy decided that they were making one car per month for each employee they had in production (1000), and it wasnt viable. Translate that into a Ford or Holden situation, and the employee to car ratio is getting very similar.

But as stated before, its the suppliers that are going to hurt alot more before the car companies. Mitsy supply contracts were the cream on top for alot of dual suppliers to Holden and Mitsy. The cream has gone, and even the slice of cake (commodre and falcon production) has dimished since feb 2008. Wages etc might drop when you go from 4000 cars a month to 2500 a month, but rents, leases etc stay the same.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Anyone who has driven a FWd anything on roads with big ruts on the left edge of the road will attest to
the pulling and diving that goes on through the steering wheel, especially when those ruts are full of water...

The Fiesta was a killer for that, it really didn't like ruts and bumps in the road while trying to turn.

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Yep and people are struggling to realise that.

There is no real need for large cars anymore. If you want something big for the family or that can tow you get a SUV/4WD. If you drive around the city you get something smaller and more efficient. You want to haul a load you get a ute. The only thing Falcons and Commodores are still good for are their performance varients. So I said it before and I'll say it again, Falcon should be turned into a performance line only. Base it off the Mustang to keep costs down.



Ah yes well that is true then.

Where I live, all the tradies have dual cab 4x4 utes, the only time I see a Falcon/Commodore ute is when they rock up to the petrol station with 20" wheels, Chevrolet badges and not a scratch anywhere on the tailgate and you can eat your dinner from the plastic tub.

Falcon is supposed to be good with 1 tonne pack but I don't see any around.

One guy at work has a ute, the rest of us have sedans, SUVs or small cars.

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Where I live, all the tradies have dual cab 4x4 utes, the only time I see a Falcon/Commodore ute is when they rock up to the petrol station with 20" wheels, Chevrolet badges and not a scratch anywhere on the tailgate and you can eat your dinner from the plastic tub.

Falcon is supposed to be good with 1 tonne pack but I don't see any around.

One guy at work has a ute, the rest of us have sedans, SUVs or small cars.

I've noticed that too, Big Damo. Those 4x4 dual cabs have to be the most popular, but yet the most compromised at everything they do. People love them, including the horrid back seat, less safety both passive and active, comprimised tray, less overall comfort, less 4x4 ability than a specialised wagon/ute. Hopefully next Ranger addresses some of this.

To Gobes and Wotdah, thanks guys for all your work, our family has appreciated it immensely for years. Great highway cars you can drive for 700km+ and come out feeling refreshed, effortless torque, economy, great ride comfort, reliability and build quality. At least ours have been. Thanks for the Territory too, we are a young family who were able to buy one new - special factory order too. Comfort, power, ride height, functionality and AWD so on most days you don't have to scrounge in the mud putting on snow chains to get up the hill! AWD and Aussie made, wow... It was a pretty special day picking it up and 127,000km later it still feels new. Cheers, don't feel depressed, some Australians realise that what you make is very great indeed.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Where I live, all the tradies have dual cab 4x4 utes, the only time I see a Falcon/Commodore ute is when they rock up to the petrol station with 20" wheels, Chevrolet badges and not a scratch anywhere on the tailgate and you can eat your dinner from the plastic tub.

Falcon is supposed to be good with 1 tonne pack but I don't see any around.

One guy at work has a ute, the rest of us have sedans, SUVs or small cars.

I was referring to dual cab utes in my previous post


One thing Ive just noticed, Holden have brought out staff pricing of 30% discount on Commodore. Cant remember this being around when I was working there last year.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

I was referring to dual cab utes in my previous post
One thing Ive just noticed, Holden have brought out staff pricing of 30% discount on Commodore. Cant remember this being around when I was working there last year.

Holden did it a few years back, I think it was around 2007 (but not too sure). At that stage it was up to about 35% discount on the high end stuff, and about mid 20's% for the omega's etc. I guess it wouldnt be too bad if you could get the cruze with a 30% off ($22990 - 30% = $16093).

Some one at Holdens must have realised that putting back on the second shift, with production capacity of 600 cars a day (12,000 a month), doesnt quite make sense when you are only selling 2600 commodores, 600 utes and 2000 cruzes a month. They might have to try go out and sell some Chevy Caprice Police cars.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I didn't quite say that, it would be my first choice if it had what I wanted..so FoA has read the segment or trends incorrectly. They need to be a be more proactive rather than reactive, which I believe the string of products this year will help sort out...but it needs to continue.

If the I4T works out to provide roughly the same figures as a diesel, without the price premium then it should be great. But if they had thew diesel next to it I would also go that route.

Im guessing FoA would prefer buyers to select the I6 LiLPG than a diesel anyway.

It would be interesting to know the % of the market is made up of large cars.

And again, how can the large aussie sedan be dead when the commy is still selling ok and it doesn't even offer class leading anything.

The Commodore and the HSV spin offs have also benefited from overseas money that was put into them for panel changes and more mod cons. I don't think tyre pressure monitoring would have made it into the cars, except the US laws mandated it. Similar with the bonnet scoops inherited from Pontiac etc. Since Ford decided Falcon was an Australasian market only car, they cut its chances off at the knees. Every Falcon feature implemented costs more, because there are less markets to sell it to and absorb the cost. Ford US did a great job of limiting the Falcons potential for decades.

Dan

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Some one at Holdens must have realised that putting back on the second shift, with production capacity of 600 cars a day (12,000 a month), doesnt quite make sense when you are only selling 2600 commodores, 600 utes and 2000 cruzes a month. They might have to try go out and sell some Chevy Caprice Police cars.

Its Jan figures. Commodore is selling about 3500 a month, bout 1000 utes. But you push your tiring agenda.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Ok, I obviously had my monthly moment this afternoon but to say that things are morbid at my place of employment would be an understatement. I love Ford, I live Ford, and it kills me to know we have such a great product and yet we would struggle to give them away at the moment. A Falcon would be my first choice but I also frequent a Forum devoted to that vehicle numerous times a day, so therefore I am an enthusiast, and argue as much as you like, but that puts me in the minority. Holden may sell more vehicles and Commodore is still number one, but who is the number one seller of private vehicles in oz, I don't know the answer but am almost sure it's not Commodore.

Everything I have read has said Mazda have the private market wrapped up in Australia with the Mazda 3 and have for a few years.

Mate it must be tough at the moment for you, when you love a product and your contribution to it, but are helpless to decide its future.

Maybe the unions who represent Ford workers need to get a bit proactive in wanting a say about some of the decisions being made at Ford Australia and trying to get some positive media about what they would like the company to do. There is no doubt the large car segment is dieing, but there is equally no doubt that Ford Australia's management have accelerated that over many years too. Maybe it won't save Falcon, but it might save some jobs.

I wouldn't be counting on management to suddenly realise they are the problem at this point.

Dan

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Everything I have read has said Mazda have the private market wrapped up in Australia with the Mazda 3 and have for a few years.

Ford had the chance to build the new gen Focus here with its associated SUV and electric vehicle bodystyles. This would of allowed the Falcon to remain RWD as the factory could have enough volume.

Certainly the Mazda 3 market is the place to be for private (profitable) buyers. My dealer reckons they make more money on the Cruze than they do the Commodore as the amount of fleet buyers Commodore has, if they end up making a softroader on the Cruze platform here then that could mean more cashola.

The market is shifting, private buyers spend big amounts of money on the Mazda 3 type car now, meanwhile it would make your eyes water to see how cheap the big short-term rental companies buy falcons for - rental companies are the biggest buyer of Falcon.

There is no way I would believe they will shut down Ford Australia, because if that was a chance Im sure Burela would go out guns blazing with ensuring Focus production here to try to turn it around. I cant imagine anyone cancelling Focus because they knew that Ford AU was doomed, instead he must of thought Falcon was going to be huge over the coming years and hence Focus wasnt needed. So its obvious there is stuff we dont know yet on maybe massive new markets for Falcon.

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by Quicksand

Hehe i get the point you are trying to make, but you can't compare a niche specialist upmarket vehicle like Merc/BMW to a mass produced Falcon

The 3 & 5 series aren't exactly "niche". They are the bread and butter over in Europe but still sell like hot cakes over here.

More people are buying Euro and Jap these days and everyone is broke anyway. Just look around at other industries.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Some one at Holdens must have realised that putting back on the second shift, with production capacity of 600 cars a day (12,000 a month), doesnt quite make sense when you are only selling 2600 commodores, 600 utes and 2000 cruzes a month. They might have to try go out and sell some Chevy Caprice Police cars.

Only if they're offering up to $8,000 discount on PI vehicles like Ford and Chrysler.
Probably explains why Holden have been very quiet on the subject lately.....

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Bobman

The 3 & 5 series aren't exactly "niche". They are the bread and butter over in Europe but still sell like hot cakes over here.

More people are buying Euro and Jap these days and everyone is broke anyway. Just look around at other industries.

As the trend shows not every one wants or needs a large sedan, small or medium is suitable.
People are heading towards the Corolla, Mazda 3, Focus sized cars and if needing something a little larger the Accord Euro, Mazda 6, Mondeo, etc will accomodate their needs.
The 3 series, A4, IS250 and C class fit this nicely for the people who want to spend a little more for a little more quality and refinement.
Yes the prices are more but with the specials Audi and Merc have had lately you can pick up a C class or A4 for a reasonable price.
The market for these cars will always be there and with the boom in some industries there is a little more cash around to go for something a little nicer.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Ford had the chance to build the new gen Focus here with its associated SUV and electric vehicle bodystyles. This would of allowed the Falcon to remain RWD as the factory could have enough volume.

Certainly the Mazda 3 market is the place to be for private (profitable) buyers. My dealer reckons they make more money on the Cruze than they do the Commodore as the amount of fleet buyers Commodore has, if they end up making a softroader on the Cruze platform here then that could mean more cashola.

The market is shifting, private buyers spend big amounts of money on the Mazda 3 type car now, meanwhile it would make your eyes water to see how cheap the big short-term rental companies buy falcons for - rental companies are the biggest buyer of Falcon.

There is no way I would believe they will shut down Ford Australia, because if that was a chance Im sure Burela would go out guns blazing with ensuring Focus production here to try to turn it around. I cant imagine anyone cancelling Focus because they knew that Ford AU was doomed, instead he must of thought Falcon was going to be huge over the coming years and hence Focus wasnt needed. So its obvious there is stuff we dont know yet on maybe massive new markets for Falcon.

its all assumptions and guesswork on your behalf regarding the viability of aus built focus.