which car/model changed the face of performance for aussie cars?

[GTP-03]

The Windsor engine in 5 litre form won more touring car races in the hands of Moffat than any other car in the history of the Australian touring car championship, and that all started back in 1969 with the Coca Cola Mustang. the Windsor engine has been around for a long time under many different configurations, it even won the Lemans 24 hour race which were fitted to the legendary GT40s, this is one of Fords greatest motors and they are still used today in the v8 Supercar championship. So for me the Windsor was the game changer, since its Australian debut in 1967 in theXR GT. Remember the quickest thing Holden had back then was the X2 HR Holden, quite a joke in comparism to the mighty XR GT!

[Ryan]

It would be interesting to see how much impact the W427 would've had if it wasn't so expensive.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by GTP-03

The Windsor engine in 5 litre form won more touring car races in the hands of Moffat than any other car in the history of the Australian touring car championship, and that all started back in 1969 with the Coca Cola Mustang. the Windsor engine has been around for a long time under many different configurations, it even won the Lemans 24 hour race which were fitted to the legendary GT40s, this is one of Fords greatest motors and they are still used today in the v8 Supercar championship. So for me the Windsor was the game changer, since its Australian debut in 1967 in theXR GT. Remember the quickest thing Holden had back then was the X2 HR Holden, quite a joke in comparism to the mighty XR GT!

The windsor also powered Ian Geoghegan's '65 mustang to 67 wins from 72 starts. The best success rate for any racing car in the world. It wasn't even tainted with clevo heads like Moffats'.

[Chopped]

Ford started it then lost their way a little bit in the eighties. I think we shouldn't forget the effect Brock Commodores had during this time. Factory cars hotted up by a third party, that could be purchased off the showroom floor. HSV was later created in the same mold. Tickford, FPV etc.

Ford has definately claimed the mantle back with the Supercharged V8 , whilst
HSV seem to be going the way of gimics instead of performance.

It's a shame that they don't make limited edition factory specials to meet race homogulations like they used to..........

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by irish2

The windsor also powered Ian Geoghegan's '65 mustang to 67 wins from 72 starts. The best success rate for any racing car in the world. It wasn't even tainted with clevo heads like Moffats'.

The heads where on the Boss 302 FIRST !!!

[Chilliman]

The LS1 Commodores were just a continuation of a theme started by Ford with the XR GT back in the sixties - V8 RWD Sporty sedan.

I think the WRX in the 1990s changed the game for a whole generation - for a lot of younger people its turbo AWD or nothing. Luckily Ford came out with the Turbo XR6 which has regained some of that generation when they were looking to upgrade into a larger car.

[RAPID_BA]

The wrx as many have said could probably be the game changer. The v8s lost respect during 90s when wrx was the goto weapon for ram raiders. Even the police admitted they couldnt catch them.

The ls1 probably restored respect for v8s and made ford lift their game

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

The ls1 probably restored respect for v8s and made ford lift their game

In what way? The LS1 was evolution, not revolution.

The Audi Quattro (followed by the Escort Cosworth, WRX and Evo) was revolution.

[kpcart]

i dont think any car/model "changed" the face of performance for aussie cars, it has been progressive, and sometimes it has gone backwards.

and why are people saying things like subaru wrx and nissan gtr? they arent aussie and didnt change aussie performance cars one bit. just like minis didnt when they won bathurst.

to me the closest thing to changing the face of performance for aussies cars (traditionally heavy lumebersome inneficient v8s) would be the vl commodore - bringing technology and efficiency to ausies barges. this trend didnt last long, as we then got the vn commodore and ea falcon, but ford then made a beauty in the original xr6, which like the vl, showed you dont need a heavy inneficient v8 for fast times. BUT since the vl and xr6 arent true performance cars to all, i would say the commodores when fitted with the LS1. ever since holden fitted the Chev motors to their cars, performance in aussie cars has been effortless, and a power war errupted with Ford - bringing more performance from both manufacturers. the Chevs seem to have an endless amount of itirations and endless performance too, every year the power goes up. they could make a 600kw hsv pne day with todays technology if they needed to, to fight off a ford challenge.

[2011G6E]

I'd probably discount anything with a V8 as being a "game changer" as the V8 has always been the engine to "naturally" go for in a "performance car". (he says, ducking sharply... ).

The title of the thread would mean a vehicle that changed the "normal" face of performance cars, something that was different, outside the square, a vehicle that wasn't what people would expect to contain such performance, something that would make people suddenly go "Holy crap, look at that thing go! That's completely changed my idea about what a performance car is and re-evaluate my thinking!", then I'd still stand by my choice of the XU1 and the E38/E49 Chargers.

Anyone can just slap a V8 into a platform and call it a "performance car"...it had been done to death by everyone from the big guys to smaller makers over the decades. Trying a different and more daring route by going for a smaller engine and yet still wiping the bum of the V8's at the time is truly "game changing".

Closer to modern times, I'd go for the good old XR6...when they were released, for the first time in the modern era people honestly looked at whether they actually did need a V8 to go quickly and give sparkling performance. The common outlook was that the XR6 was as fast if not faster than the XR8, so why bother spending the extra cash on fuel, rego, and insurance on a V8?

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by kpcart

to me the closest thing to changing the face of performance for aussies cars (traditionally heavy lumebersome inneficient v8s) would be the vl commodore - bringing technology and efficiency to ausies barges. this trend didnt last long, as we then got the vn commodore and ea falcon, but ford then made a beauty in the original xr6, which like the vl, showed you dont need a heavy inneficient v8 for fast times. BUT since the vl and xr6 arent true performance cars to all,e

The funny thing about VLs is it wasn't the 6 cylinder that drew me towards them at first. Essentially it's just a Nissan motor, but the RB30ET was exclusive to the VL. Not even the R31 Skyline had it except the RB30E.

Over the 1/4 mile in stock form they weren't that quick (15s for 86-88 wasn't that bad though I guess), but when you look at one of the most modified cars from the last 10-15 years the VL is right up there.

[RAPID_BA]

Just hope we don't go down the path Like vw has. Tiny little motors but twincharged, both turbo and supercharged.

I like big capacity motors, no replacement for displacement. Our 6 should always be around 4.0 capacity and V8s 5.0+

Don't even talk about a 4 cyl in a falcon or commodore. Don't they remember what happened in the VB commodore? A disaster

[Kingsley]

XR GT.
While it's true the EH S4, Cortina GT and X2 Holdens were performance based, all were slipped onto the scene quietly and none had the muscle car aura that the Yank cars did. By '66 the muscle car scene was well into it's glory years in the U/S and we first saw it through the Mustangs and Nova's racing here. The 'Mustang bred' XR GT was the first real attempt at a true U/S style muscle car and Ford promoted it as one. It's success forced GM and Chrysler to lift their game.

[Ducati888]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Just hope we don't go down the path Like vw has. Tiny little motors but twincharged, both turbo and supercharged.

I like big capacity motors, no replacement for displacement. Our 6 should always be around 4.0 capacity and V8s 5.0+

Don't even talk about a 4 cyl in a falcon or commodore. Don't they remember what happened in the VB commodore? A disaster

Dude - get over the 4 cylinder Commodore thing. It was 30 years ago and cars then were very different.

The four cylinder they are talking about for the Falcon makes more power and torque than the XR GT Windsor did.

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by anto

just because you wish it, doesnt make it so

And just because you cant read doesn't make it a myth. It's been proved. Motor or wheels did the test in the 70's, again in the 80's, & I'm pretty sure it was vindicated again at the turn of the millennium. *yawn*

[Angeldust]

the ls1 took it to the import jap turbo's and has come out on top.

[mik]

the XR GT was really the car that started the ball rolling for performance passions in Australia, and rightly so, a small passage from wiki says it all.

The Falcon XR won the Wheels Car of the Year award in 1966, giving Ford Falcon two straight wins.



Ford XR Falcon GT in Gallaher Silver
The marketing focus on the Falcon's relationship with the Mustang's sporty appeal led to Ford introducing a Falcon GT variant of the XR in 1967, featuring a 225 bhp (168 kW) version of the 289 cubic inch (4.7 litre) Windsor V8 engine, sourced from the Ford Mustang. The GT heralded the dawn of the Aussie muscle car. All of the original XR GTs were painted in the colour 'GT Gold', except for eight that were "Gallaher Silver" and another five that were "Russet Bronze, Sultan Maroon, Polar White, Avis White and Ivy Green". The non-gold GTs, while having the same specifications, are the rarest of the early Australian muscle cars.

Also specified on the first GT Falcon was a Hurst shifter for the 4spd gearbox, deep dish sports steering wheel, sports instrumentation, chrome full-cover wheel trims, and thick 'GT stripes' along the lower panels between front and rear wheels.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Ryan

The funny thing about VLs is it wasn't the 6 cylinder that drew me towards them at first. Essentially it's just a Nissan motor, but the RB30ET was exclusive to the VL. Not even the R31 Skyline had it except the RB30E.

Over the 1/4 mile in stock form they weren't that quick (15s for 86-88 wasn't that bad though I guess), but when you look at one of the most modified cars from the last 10-15 years the VL is right up there.

My Nissan Skyline silo out handled any Vl
It didnt have the top end or low down power being n/a
But handle like chalk and cheese
The RB30et, have been a popular motor for years
$100 if your lucky should yeild a running rb30
But the turbo falcon,is on the podium nowadays
11-12 sec 1/4 from the factory,thats fast,and handle to boot
I think any factory hottie over the last 40 odd years,each had there finger in the pie somewhere

[Revolver]

The VN commodore.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

My Nissan Skyline silo out handled any Vl

I know what you mean. Everytime I take a corner in mine it's usually "Oh noes here comes HMAS VL".

Even with the suspension work I've done it still handles like a tub on wheels.

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Don't they remember what happened in the VB commodore? A disaster

Remember the Starfire was just a 202, 186 (I can't remember) lopped of 2 cylinders.

I think a 4 cylinder in a Commodore and/or Falcon could work if it was given a diet. However I wouldn't like it if it was a direct replacement for a 6 and a V8.

Still the idea sounds wrong. Kind of V6 Camaros and Mustangs in the U.S.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Pm sent about windsors ive owned.

The point im trying to make isnt to attack windsors, its to say what model/car lifted the performance bar for aussie cars. I suggested ls1s and you immediately jump into a windsor defensive formation, snarl, show your canine teeth? The windsors are good, dont get upset

I only jumped to the defence of the windsor as in your OP your were high and mighty about the LS1 being the be all and end all and capable of doing a mid 14 for a basic Commy, when in actual fact the falcon was also capable of doing a mid 14.
So many other's in this thread have mentioned many other types of vehicles but yet you don't see fit to judge them, you only have a personal vendeta about the AU I think as you are only replying to me about the Windsor.
It's no secret your thought's on the windsor and the LS1, I just don't know why you don't go and buy a LS1 and tell us all how good it is, please for the love of god................

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

The four cylinder they are talking about for the Falcon makes more power and torque than the XR GT Windsor did.

I wouldn't really be surprised if its as fast as or faster then an XR6, plus there is half a chance it'll handle better due to being lighter.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Conundrum

And just because you cant read doesn't make it a myth. It's been proved. Motor or wheels did the test in the 70's, again in the 80's, & I'm pretty sure it was vindicated again at the turn of the millennium. *yawn*

In those 'comparisons' they used HO's with either a 3.08 or 3.23 diff ratio. Considering you could option one with 3.5, 3.7 or 4.11's hardly makes it a fair comparison for a straight line shootout.

[big_landau]

Originally Posted by irish2

In those 'comparisons' they used HO's with either a 3.08 or 3.23 diff ratio. Considering you could option one with 3.5, 3.7 or 4.11's hardly makes it a fair comparison for a straight line shootout.

if they had the same diff ratio id still have my money on the e49.

[drew`SEVNT5]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

In what way? The LS1 was evolution, not revolution.

The Audi Quattro (followed by the Escort Cosworth, WRX and Evo) was revolution.

And the Delta Integrale.

[RAPID_BA]

http://s1234.photobucket.com/home/hulkhulk1

Here is the ls1 doing its 0-100 dash, take note of the top end punches it throw. Definately lifted the bar

[Maggot]

As much as I hate to admit it, its probably the GTR skyline (many of the other cars mentioned are imported too).

We boo'd them, banned them, changed the rules completely and pretended they weren't there.

[Neale]

Originally Posted by Maggot

As much as I hate to admit it, its probably the GTR skyline (many of the other cars mentioned are imported too).

We boo'd them, banned them, changed the rules completely and pretended they weren't there.

Its the australian mentality towards performance cars isnt it. Unless its a big RWD Falcon V8 it cant possibly be a performance car.

Dont get me wrong I love V8's but there not the be all end all

[FG50T]

Originally Posted by tankclare

My opinions:

GTR-XU1 torana - pocket rocket that cleaned up at bathurst and proved you dont need a big motor to go well.

1967 XR GT - enough said.. V8 performance and the GT name

Phase IV GTHO - Pretty much a race car built for the road and even the government thought it was too much to handle lol

Valiant charger - Another 6 cylinder to stir the pot amongst the v8's.

BA XR6T - We already knew the falcon 6 was good but I think the turbo barra motor is what opened the eyes of everyone and made people respect the falcon 6 a whole lote more.

Holden injected 304 in VN-VS - As much as we hate them when they first came on the seen every man and his dog either had one or wanted one. They can be easily put into just about anything and reasonably easy to mod.

AU XR8 and T-series - Started putting ford v8s back on the map

This + R32 GT-R for really bringing in a completely different performance market

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

I only jumped to the defence of the windsor as in your OP your were high and mighty about the LS1 being the be all and end all and capable of doing a mid 14 for a basic Commy, when in actual fact the falcon was also capable of doing a mid 14.
So many other's in this thread have mentioned many other types of vehicles but yet you don't see fit to judge them, you only have a personal vendeta about the AU I think as you are only replying to me about the Windsor.
It's no secret your thought's on the windsor and the LS1, I just don't know why you don't go and buy a LS1 and tell us all how good it is, please for the love of god................

Why would I go and buy a LS1? They changed the game AT THE TIME (1999 onwards) but have since had their wings clipped by the xr6T and the Boss 5.4s. But that's the whole point, ford lifted their game as a response and we are where we are today.

Stop being paranoid, I have not even thought about the "1999-2002 series" falcons during this thread. Its to acknowledge game changers not those avantgarde shaped fords