Ford to shut down plants in July, shed jobs

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

You cant be serous? Sportswagon to Holden is Territory to Ford.. Sports wagon has done nothing to Holden that Territory has not done for Ford. The only difference in Australian product between them is Cruze. Large RWD sedon, utes & WAGON sell about the same numbers between Holden & Ford!! Just becuase one car has a Commodore bagde & the other has a Territory badge makes no differnence to them coming down the production line in an Australian factory!!

No ones denying the common link between the Falcon/Terry and Commy/SW.
Both wagon varients have helped underpin the sedan, however, the reliance on Fords Decision to only produce large rwd vehicles means it has seriously hampered its viability.
Holden on the other hand can survive a downturn in the large car segment as the Cruze numbers are more than filling the void for now.

Ford turned their backs on small car manufacturing in a country that has seen a massive swing towards purchasing smaller cars.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

No ones denying the common link between the Falcon/Terry and Commy/SW.
Both wagon varients have helped underpin the sedan, however, the reliance on Fords Decision to only produce large rwd vehicles means it has seriously hampered its viability.
Holden on the other hand can survive a downturn in the large car segment as the Cruze numbers are more than filling the void for now.

Ford turned their backs on small car manufacturing in a country that has seen a massive swing towards purchasing smaller cars.

Yes, Ford's decision to not make Focus here was a monumental stuff up.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by flappist

But when Ford made a RWD wagon, Joe Bloggs did not buy one.
Also when Ford made a RWD V8 again Joe Bloggs did not buy one.
Joe Bloggs did, however buy a lot of Territories and is doing so still especially the diesel.

But enough of Joe Bloggs, which NEW Falcon did YOU buy?

I beleive you have a 2012 Falcon Flappist? Did you buy a new Falcon between it and you BA's? If not did your opinion payment run out between your purchases or were you allowed to comment on FG Falcon's?

The last NEW falcon I bought was a BF2 RTV. Has my opinion payment expired? Am I still allowed to comment on Falcon's? I still own and drive the RTV.

I think that argument has passed it's used by date. I have never bought a Commodore so does that mean I can't make a comment on them?

[rdmr]

If Ford was to expand the Territory line up, apart from the already mentioned variants, I would like to see a Dual cab ute variant.
The rear box would not be large I know, but it would be targeted an urban buying segment, not tradies. It could be called a "family cab". Offering all the known Territory benefits, including AWD, and the flexibility of Dual cabs like Ranger, but without those vehicles off-putting truck like stigmas.

[rdmr]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

Yes, Ford's decision to not make Focus here was a monumental stuff up.

I'd say not bringing Ranger here instead of focus was even bigger. We could have got a new engine plant along with it.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Very true. Its an interesting situation - the lack of choice is most probably hurting Falcon sales, but the flip side is that once you include Territory, sales of Ford and Holdens local models are almost identical. My understanding of the Cruze is that its basically a CKD arrangement there simply to keep Holdens production lines going in order to cover fixed costs, so its sales numbers are not as relevant when comparing locally designed and built models.

The big question is, if Ford offered the XR8 and G8E, how many would actually sell? Plenty more than ecoboost and ECOLPi I'd wager. If Ford are no longer concentrating on the fleet market, it beggars belief that they've poured all that cash into economy specials with zero aspirational appeal, while ignoring the sports/luxury end of the market that actually has a chance of selling in the private market while dragging Falcons image a little further up-market in the process. Combine that with an expanded Territory range like whats been mentioned, and sales would look better than they do now.

The difference being at the kitchen table.
Ford is now where Holden were 3 years ago...having forced closedowns.

The difference is that Holden foresaw the shift and acted accordingly, Ford just expected its buyer market to continue buying large cars on gas and when it didnt eventuate reacted with the EB.
Obviously i can buy a new Focus if i wanted to stay in a Ford, but imported cars dont help local jobs do they.
Many of my friends owe their livelyhoods to the Cruze today, how will the boys at Broady fare if Falcon dies...

But i agree with your second paragraph.

[XD 351 Ute]

Man, I can't believe how much it hurts inside when I read about the Ford plant closures and things that impact badly on our beloved marque.
As much as many others, I would dearly love to go out & buy a brand new Falcon (preferably ute, V8 etc, etc).

But the plain simple fact is that I can not justify the expense.

I make do with the 3 old secondhand nails that I have, two of them toys, and only because I got them cheap, and they are cars that I just love and can't bear to part with.

Maybe that's the problem for a lot of us here, we just love our old Fords too much.

Ed

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Territory SR could be introduced into the range as the sports model, where 'S' means SUV. I know the SR badge has been used for limited run trim and alloys specials, but the scope is there to introduce it permanently as a parallel to the Falcon XR range. When you think about it, there isnt a lot of work involved in it and the only unique parts would be a sports skirt kit for the Terri.

Wouldn't take much - we bought the 2nd SR with the blacked out wheels and the first black trim, also a mix of XR6 and standard front seats. "RPO76" One of the reasons we bought it new was that model felt 'younger' than the other TX TS and Ghia, and it had the Territory's strengths. OT: Read the latest Wheels midsize SUV comparo, then reflect on just how accomplished a package the Territory STILL is.

One further point - we up specced our AWD Territory SR, adding premium sound, roof racks, heavy duty tow, adjustable pedals, curtain airbags, maybe a couple of other bits as well... I noticed when driving the SZ TS model, it incorporates pretty much everything we, as private buyers specced above the 'base' model (SR is TX based) and then a bit more , so IMO Ford HAS listened to actual buyers of the product, or at least analysed which options are most desired.

I'd buy one again, love to see Ford continue in Australia as a fan of FOA, it's amazing to consider just how many different variants/drivetrains available in the Falcon, except, sadly, a wagon.

[Shonky.]

to the guys buying second hand but loving the Falcon, you are still putting upward pressure on resales, which flows through

plus speaking highly of the Falcon, taking them to the track for others to watch and aspire to owning, influencing potential buyers when you can, pointing out the highlights of the cars to others on the forums etc all helps

I bought my latest Falcon a couple of months after joining the Forums..................

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

No ones denying the common link between the Falcon/Terry and Commy/SW.
Both wagon varients have helped underpin the sedan, however, the reliance on Fords Decision to only produce large rwd vehicles means it has seriously hampered its viability.
Holden on the other hand can survive a downturn in the large car segment as the Cruze numbers are more than filling the void for now.

Ford turned their backs on small car manufacturing in a country that has seen a massive swing towards purchasing smaller cars.

I'm not denying that, but you where trying to say (from how I read it), that sports wagon is what is saving the Commodore & Ford where wrong for not build a sports wagon type that too what save the Falcon. When in fact (as you have pointed out in the above post) it is the Curze doing the commodore saving.. I think & hope Ford has another car (what ever it is) lined up for Australian production that too might save the Falcon/ Territory products.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I'm not denying that, but you where trying to say (from how I read it), that sports wagon is what is saving the Commodore & Ford where wrong for not build a sports wagon type that too what save the Falcon. When in fact (as you have pointed out in the above post) it is the Curze doing the commodore saving.. I think & hope Ford has another car (what ever it is) lined up for Australian production that too might save the Falcon/ Territory products.

Holden have the Sportwagon AND the Captiva...but we often forget the Captiva when we look at Territory sales.

My first Holden ever has been a Sportwagon because Ford didnt make a XR6 wagon - no sedan substitution there for Holden.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by JG34JA

Wouldn't take much - we bought the 2nd SR with the blacked out wheels and the first black trim, also a mix of XR6 and standard front seats. "RPO76" One of the reasons we bought it new was that model felt 'younger' than the other TX TS and Ghia, and it had the Territory's strengths. OT: Read the latest Wheels midsize SUV comparo, then reflect on just how accomplished a package the Territory STILL is.

One further point - we up specced our AWD Territory SR, adding premium sound, roof racks, heavy duty tow, adjustable pedals, curtain airbags, maybe a couple of other bits as well... I noticed when driving the SZ TS model, it incorporates pretty much everything we, as private buyers specced above the 'base' model (SR is TX based) and then a bit more , so IMO Ford HAS listened to actual buyers of the product, or at least analysed which options are most desired.

I'd buy one again, love to see Ford continue in Australia as a fan of FOA, it's amazing to consider just how many different variants/drivetrains available in the Falcon, except, sadly, a wagon.

It wouldnt take much at all. Lower the suspension a bit, give the 'SR' access to the XR6 colour choices (how good would a Nitro Territory look?), add XR6 front seats and trim the rest in XR fabric, add some load rated XR6-style alloys and a skirt kit (with a little spoiler atop the tailgate) and there is your Territory SR. Make it available in the same driveline config as the other Territories to give customers choice, and you're done. All of these things bar the lower suspension (which is probably available through Ford's OEM supplier as an aftermarket part anyway) and the skirt kit is straight from the FG XR parts bin and configuring it all on the assembly line would be no more difficult than any of the other variants they currently make, especially with the array of engine choices available to the Falcon now.

How about it Ford?

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by rdmr

I'd say not bringing Ranger here instead of focus was even bigger. We could have got a new engine plant along with it.

Only problem with that.. Ford is not an Australian only company, it is a world wide company. Where the Ranger is being build now makes much, much, much better sense for Ford..

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Holden have the Sportwagon AND the Captiva...but we often forget the Captiva when we look at Territory sales.

My first Holden ever has been a Sportwagon because Ford didnt make a XR6 wagon - no sedan substitution there for Holden.

This is not about sales of Holden vs Ford in total, this is about local production only. The Craptiva is not build here. And even if you want to look at total sales, Ford has Mondeo Wagon, Escap & Kuga, which is often forget when people bring up the Craptiva line!!!


Your subsitiution was a Mondeo Wagon. But it didn't meet what you are looking for, so that is fine. But the Craptiva doesn't meet the same level as Territory either.

You got to love Australia with all these options!!

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It wouldnt take much at all. Lower the suspension a bit, give the 'SR' access to the XR6 colour choices (how good would a Nitro Territory look?), add XR6 front seats and trim the rest in XR fabric, add some load rated XR6-style alloys and a skirt kit (with a little spoiler atop the tailgate) and there is your Territory SR. Make it available in the same driveline config as the other Territories to give customers choice, and you're done. All of these things bar the lower suspension (which is probably available through Ford's OEM supplier as an aftermarket part anyway) and the skirt kit is straight from the FG XR parts bin and configuring it all on the assembly line would be no more difficult than any of the other variants they currently make, especially with the array of engine choices available to the Falcon now.

How about it Ford?

Yeah I mentioned the suspension to the dealer staff, "How come it doesn't have sports suspension?" but to be honest it is such a sweet steer the SR has 'gotten away' without having a special tune, in my case anyway. It can 'hustle' when the surf's pumping along the GOR and you've just got to make the tide! Ours also had the 7 seats and I've heard it's these 7 seats that stop an EcoLPi version, I'd buy a 5 seater AWD if LPi was available... in SR form or not in SR form. As it is, the diesel AWD is the natural successor, I'll miss the I6 *sob*

[rdmr]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Only problem with that.. Ford is not an Australian only company, it is a world wide company. Where the Ranger is being build now makes much, much, much better sense for Ford..

And how does building it in south africa make that much more sense?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

This is not about sales of Holden vs Ford in total, this is about local production only. The Craptiva is not build here. And even if you want to look at total sales, Ford has Mondeo Wagon, Escap & Kuga, which is often forget when people bring up the Craptiva line!!!


Your subsitiution was a Mondeo Wagon. But it didn't meet what you are looking for, so that is fine. But the Craptiva doesn't meet the same level as Territory either.

You got to love Australia with all these options!!

You are missing the point, people think that somehow the Territory compensates Ford against the Sportwagon. They fail to realise the shear amount of Captivas that Holden sells against the Territory.

[kegr]

drove past my local dealer on the way home
new fiesta,territory,focus & ranger on the lot and 1 g6e up the back.
this dealer used to be the largest in the region once for falcon sales.
they now have more Kia's on the lot than falcons
my current employer until september last year would buy approx 10000 + fords a year (nearly all falcons with a few others)now NONE
this was due to some business decision
we can't even get a FORD via salary sacrifice

i feel the Ford decision to drop fleets will hurt it more than other decision
talked to a taxi driver cannot buy a new Falcon as a Taxi anymore now have to buy used or a new Toyota

a huge amount of people used to buy Falcons 2nd hand from fleets (even Fords own fleet) as we knew that they would still be good cars and only just run in.
I will so miss the Falcon;best find a G6E turbo to hide in a shed (or a couple)
as i think we might end up with a simmilar event to the last of the F trucks
people won't realise how good they are until after they are gone,Territory included.
my tip; find a good turbo of any type and hide it(or a few as your super fund)

[Fez WQ]

All ford parts are made by ford even the ford parts on ebay

Originally Posted by eb2monty

I'd like to think that we here are the 'die hards'. If we cannot share our VERY REAL concern amongst each other, who else can we share with?

Flappist, you come up with good stuff quite often, however, the "which NEW Falcon did you buy?" line is old and has got nothing to do with the credibility of our discussion.

I'd like to think that I am able to be concerned for FORD and have a right to discuss with my FORD brothers even though I don't have a new one.

The fact that I could have bought an EF XR8 heater tap off ebay for $25 but supported my local dealer and FORD by paying $100 is my small way of showing support. I buy all of my overpriced parts GENUINE from FORD. I recognise that they are OVERPRICED, however, I feel good in supporting my local dealer and FORD.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Brazen

You are missing the point, people think that somehow the Territory compensates Ford against the Sportwagon. They fail to realise the shear amount of Captivas that Holden sells against the Territory.

NO you’re missing the point!!! Selling more Captiva's does not help Holden keep local production? But selling more Territories does help Ford keep local production.. Is the purpose of this topic local production?? IF so, then Captiva has no place in this topic!!! I'm not denying would you are saying, just making it relevant to what is being discussed in this topic!!

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by rdmr

And how does building it in south africa make that much more sense?

Because they can build 200-250K of them each year & Australia could not. So Ford had to investment money somewhere else to build the units that Australia could not & invest in Australia too. That is allot of money to retool Australia & build a factory else where, when the factory you build else where could very easily add the extra 50K Australia would build & save you lot in the process!!

And I don’t think it is South Africa either, is it not Thailand?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

NO you’re missing the point!!! Selling more Captiva's does not help Holden keep local production? But selling more Territories does help Ford keep local production.. Is the purpose of this topic local production?? IF so, then Captiva has no place in this topic!!! I'm not denying would you are saying, just making it relevant to what is being discussed in this topic!!

I understand, but people think Territory somehow makes up for the lack of a Falcon wagon, all I am saying is that effectively Territory is being attacked from both sides and isnt as successful as it appears when you add Captiva sales to Holden Sportwagon sales. Having said that, give me a Territory over a crappy Captiva anyday!!!

[RspecAU]

Originally Posted by kegr

drove past my local dealer on the way home
new fiesta,territory,focus & ranger on the lot and 1 g6e up the back.
this dealer used to be the largest in the region once for falcon sales.
they now have more Kia's on the lot than falcons
my current employer until september last year would buy approx 10000 + fords a year (nearly all falcons with a few others)now NONE
this was due to some business decision
we can't even get a FORD via salary sacrifice

i feel the Ford decision to drop fleets will hurt it more than other decision
talked to a taxi driver cannot buy a new Falcon as a Taxi anymore now have to buy used or a new Toyota

a huge amount of people used to buy Falcons 2nd hand from fleets (even Fords own fleet) as we knew that they would still be good cars and only just run in.
I will so miss the Falcon;best find a G6E turbo to hide in a shed (or a couple)
as i think we might end up with a simmilar event to the last of the F trucks
people won't realise how good they are until after they are gone,Territory included.
my tip; find a good turbo of any type and hide it(or a few as your super fund)

I know what you mean, you only have to take a look at the Westpoint Ford in Werribee only 2 used Fords on the front fence and one of those i had a look at and almost had a heart failer . It's an BA 2003 XR6 Turbo 115+km silver body in real good condition with a price tag of $15 888, it's almost like they trying not to sell Fords.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I understand, but people think Territory somehow makes up for the lack of a Falcon wagon, all I am saying is that effectively Territory is being attacked from both sides and isnt as successful as it appears when you add Captiva sales to Holden Sportwagon sales. Having said that, give me a Territory over a crappy Captiva anyday!!!

Craptiva is a 5 & 7 too don’t forget, so those sales are some what covered by Mondeo Wagon, Escape & Kuga. Between those 3 models Ford get approx 500-600 units each month. If Ford ever got their crap together with New Kuga & New Mondeo Wagon coming soon, that 500-600 has the potential to double, even triple. So then Craptiva 5, 7 & Commodore SW, would be cover by Ford in terms of Territory, Mondeo Wagon & Kuga

[rdmr]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Because they can build 200-250K of them each year & Australia could not. So Ford had to investment money somewhere else to build the units that Australia could not & invest in Australia too. That is allot of money to retool Australia & build a factory else where, when the factory you build else where could very easily add the extra 50K Australia would build & save you lot in the process!!

And I don’t think it is South Africa either, is it not Thailand?

Ranger is built in Thailand, South Africa and Argentina.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by naddis01

I beleive you have a 2012 Falcon Flappist? Did you buy a new Falcon between it and you BA's? If not did your opinion payment run out between your purchases or were you allowed to comment on FG Falcon's?

The last NEW falcon I bought was a BF2 RTV. Has my opinion payment expired? Am I still allowed to comment on Falcon's? I still own and drive the RTV.

I think that argument has passed it's used by date. I have never bought a Commodore so does that mean I can't make a comment on them?

No I bought a Ranger, Hyundai and a Nissan as well as the Falcon.

The Ranger replaced a Navara, the Hyundai replaced a Toyota and the Nissan replace my last F6.

The Nissan was bought because FPV did not want to release a F6-E at the time and the XR6T was bought because FPV dropped the Super Pursuit.

The point I was making was if you do not buy new cars irrespective of what they are then you are not a potential new Falcon or whatever buyer so abusing Ford for their choice of products is somewhat moot.

[Bluehoon]

Look at it this way.

1) It all over one way or another in or at 2016
2) 4 years to go and have fun and enjoy what we have, whilst we have it
3) No amounts of posts, comments, aruging or even buying here will change points 1 & 2.
4) For all the spin, Ford isn't the only one suffering... Holden & Toyota are feeling the same pain.
5) Keep your cash handy and make a purchase when the announcement or time is right...

At the end of the day it's all on borrowed time anyway, nothing we can do.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Fez WQ

All ford parts are made by ford even the ford parts on ebay

I'm not talking about the Ford dealers that have a shop front on eBay. I'm talking about the non genuine parts. Somehow I don't think Ford makes them OR sees a cent from them.

Also, if I buy a 'new' badge from your private collection on eBay, Ford doesn't get a cent from that either.

[The G6ET Spot]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

[SIZE="4"]

The temporary closure – from Friday, July 6 – comes as the company battles plummeting sales of its locally built Falcon large car, which have dropped a further 25.2 per cent this year, with just 1008 units sold in May, despite the introduction of a new four-cylinder variant.

What Ford have a 4 cylinder variant of the Falcon. Well who knew !!

Maybe if it was advertised it may do better

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by flappist

No I bought a Ranger, Hyundai and a Nissan as well as the Falcon.

The point I was making was if you do not buy new cars irrespective of what they are then you are not a potential new Falcon or whatever buyer so abusing Ford for their choice of products is somewhat moot.

Thats nice but considering the thread is about Ford closing Australian manufacturing for a week and you specifically only mention Australia vehicles and you were replying to someone giving an opinion on Australia vehicles it is pretty easy to draw the conclusion that you are inferring that you can't have an opinion on a Falcon unless you have bought a new one.

Just because someone hasn't bought a new car does not mean that they never will. I have never bought a V8 before however I aspire to do so. Does that mean I can't comment on anything V8? I am a new car buyer. I just hope that there is one that suits my needs when I am ready.